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1:19 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine just happened to open the tab.
 
awww, and I was hoping something big is going to drop on Meta :) Joking aside, glad to see you around, was just curious
 
Because I didn't drop enough big stuff on MSE today?
9
A: With new designs planned for some sites, are there plans to tackle the backlog?

CatijaFirst off, you're correct - we have started reaching out to sites about getting them away from the beta blue theme. We know that custom themes are often seen as an important part of a site's progression over the years and it's been disappointing that we haven't been able to prioritize creating ne...

 
@Catija I wasn't really following MSE today, frankly :)
 
It's not germain to y'all much but it's something.
 
seen your discussion in the Tavern a while ago about that, though
 
1:31 AM
:)
 
I've been tracking theming in Stacks for a while and, aside my general gripe with the approach (utility classes) that was chosen (for Stacks, I mean), am pretty excited about the possibilities for customization
 
Yeah. It's pretty cool that we're finally making headway... and with about a dozen sites slated for the first round.
If we can do another dozen in Q2, that's 24 sites with custom designs, even if they're more basic, it's better than the beta theme in my mind. Hopefully people won't feel too let down by it. We'll have to see what the first few look like.
 
yeah, theming is a very nice touch, espcially for sites that are just starting out - helps them build identity and feel like a recognized part of the network
don't think the deferrence for some sites is going to be a problem - the fact that it's happening at all is pretty good news by itself
And now the April Fools prank makes even more sense :) there was a suspicion it's not just a one-off thing
speaking of quarters... :) Any idea on when/if the roadmap becomes available again? Been looking forward to several projects, but not sure when to start getting excited since there is no way to tell what's the ETA for them
 
 
1 hour later…
2:54 AM
Bleh. Pets getting old sucks.
 
Had to put our oldest dog down today. :(
 
oh, sorry to hear that :(
 
3:10 AM
hugs
 
 
1 hour later…
4:31 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I don't know. I just talked with Rosie about it some today... tangentially, anyway. With the company switching to the Prosus fiscal year and a major change in how the public product dev teams are structured (plus a ton of new hires) our internal plans for the last quarter and the current one are... nebulous, I guess?
We could have announced something but they wouldn't be reflective of the actual work done because we have been sidetracked (in a good way, I think) from the stuff we'd been planning to do and that's unlikely to change in the immediate future. Depending on how June goes, we may have something more definite in July...
 
Too many political statements to make...
Too many personal profiles to complain about
Not enough time for useful stuff
 
But, on top of that, we were considering changing the format a bit to focus less on the upcoming plans (that may change depending on what other stuff is happening), we were going to focus a bit more on what's been accomplished in the immediate past along with the things that are currently in flight.
Enjoying the thunderstorm, @CodyGray?
 
We are finally getting some rain, after several days of promise and no delivery
It's really been trying my mother's patience. :-D
I see it as good practice, and I have enjoyed the local weather-forecasters continuing to council patience night after night.
 
Yeah... I want my week of sub-30s weather... and it sounds like I'm only getting one or two days.
 
I am concerned about losing power, though. That's been happening too frequently by my standards lately, and is worse when we have thunderstorms. The high winds are not kind to power lines, I suppose. Although sometimes it happens with no apparent cause whatsoever.
Sub-30s... have you converted to Celsius?
 
4:39 AM
I'm trying.
 
Interesting. For the children's benefit, so they'll never fit in again with the rest of their US-based peers? :-p
 
@CodyGray we just had our solar system connected a couple of weeks ago and we've got a powerwall for backup that gives us about 3 hours depending on the AC usage.
 
Oh, you got solar panels installed on the roof? Very nice. I assume you're getting the tax credits for that, too?
Was it crazy expensive, or has it come down substantially in cost over the past several years since I last looked?
 
@CodyGray considering the shit that keeps happening in schools, there's a non-zero chance they grow up in a country that uses metric.
 
Mmmm
 
4:42 AM
Yeah... with the tax credits and a cash discount the system with the powerwall came to about $35 k or so? I don't remember exactly.
 
Not enough people in this country seem to know how to solve the problem...
Or even accurately identify it
 
It's a problem unique to the US and there's tons of other countries to base solutions off of.
We just refuse to actually make the changes.
 
But there are people who will post vapid statements of prayer for you on Twitter, so that's something, right?
 
I'm an atheist, so praying for me is offensive. 🤣
 
Heh
I'm a realist, so posting vapid nonsense without actually taking any reasonable action is offensive. :-)
 
4:49 AM
I mean... it's kinda reality that if 20 6-7 year olds couldn't get people to change the laws... 19 slightly older kids won't either... and it's just... painful and angering and frustrating to be so helpless.
 
@Catija I see, that's ok, but I hope it returns in some shape or form soon - being able to gauge the potential upcoming changes and anticipate issues in advance (in particular, when developing userscripts) is quite important, methinks
 
You are referring to Sandy Hook?
I can't keep up with all the shootings anymore...
 
But I vote... even in little primaries like today... and we take our kids with us.
@CodyGray yeah
 
Biden was supposed to speak tonight. I didn't catch what he said. Did you?
I assumed it would be a little rant, like everyone made after Sandy Hook, that led to a flurry of attempts, but nothing actually happening.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yeah. That's fair. I'll check in with things on that front to see what the plans are.
 
4:51 AM
In my neck of the woods, there were effectively no primaries to vote in. Not for my party, at least.
 
@CodyGray I didn't. Needed some distance. Haven't read up on what he said.
 
Yeah, I can only imagine how an event like that would feel for someone who is a mother of young children
 
And Uvalde's only about 2.5 hours away... which... it's a lot but much closer than others.
 
Well, I don't think that really has much significance. But I guess that's being hyper-logical again.
 
No... it doesn't really signify much, logically... it's more emotional, I think. I suppose being in the same state at least means that the laws are the same (or lack of them, in our case).
 
5:00 AM
Yeah, I was wondering about that. I mean, there's talk about whether he had access to the gun legally, but... how could he not have? I mean, there are virtually no gun ownership laws, and there's nothing that would require him to have a permit to carry or whatever.
There is, as I recall, a law stipulating that automatic or semi-automatic rifles can only be purchased by people 21 (or is it 25?) years of age and older, but meh.
It doesn't say anything about access to, carrying, or usage thereof.
But the arguments are already starting about "guns don't kill people, people do".
 
Doesn't help that I hear about my kids having lockdown drills at school every month or so... which... fuck. We only had drills for shit like fires and earthquakes when I was a kid. I had to explain to my older kid today that someone actually caused a real lockdown at a school today and killed a bunch of kids.
 
Lockdown drills every month or so? Wow, that's... not something I remember.
Well. I remember it as a faculty member at one particular school, and they were not drills. But... I don't remember it as a student, and definitely not in elementary school.
They're in public school?
Well, "they"... Only the oldest is in school, right?
 
We had a couple of bomb threats when I was in high school but that's it.
 
@Catija that's great, glad to hear that!
 
Gotta be careful about which message you reply to there, Oleg. :-p
 
5:04 AM
I am careful :)
 
@CodyGray they're in a private daycare. The older one goes to kindergarten in August.
 
Ah, OK
I can never keep track of the ages
 
It's Montessori and they consider themselves "school"... so that's what I call it.
5.5 and 3.5.
@CodyGray nah, no worries. They change all the time.
 
Haha, indeed
So continuing with Montessori for kindergarten?
 
No. There's really only one main Montessori elementary and we didn't get a slot, so we're going with a more tech-centric private school with a bilingual program.
 
5:09 AM
Tech-centric? Huh, OK. Bilingual being English and Spanish, I assume?
I've heard very good things about Kirby Hall, although I have no personal experience
Personally, I'm not a big fan of private schools
 
Initially Spanish, yeah. They also add Mandarin in 3rd grade.
@CodyGray Any particular reason?
 
Eh, yeah, several of them. The main one is, you're paying a lot of extra money for what I don't believe is a better education.
As a minor reason, too many private schools are either religious-focused or have some other type of focus aside from actual education, which ends up with some censorship and limited exposure of the kids to the "real world". I don't think that sets them up well for later life.
Most of my thoughts on this are not relevant at elementary school age, obviously
 
Yeah. That seems fair. I went to Catholic school for 6-8th grade and... I feel like I learned a lot in some ways but it was a really small school, so I couldn't get ahead in subjects I excelled in... I had to take the same math as everyone else...
I think the school we're going with will be good in a lot of ways. But there's trade-offs with any choice.
 
5:25 AM
Yeah, I have actually been fairly successfully persuaded that there are advantages to private schools pre-high school.
Most of my opinions on this, informed by a lot of first- and second-hand experience, are only relevant to high school level.
 
I went to a public high school but spent my senior year in a dual credit program at a local community college... so not a particularly normal experience regardless. I didn't do the usual senior stuff.
 
I'm not sure I did, either. :-)
Very little of what I did was "normal".
 
btw, what is usual senior stuff?
 
Hmm
 
Prom, homecoming, graduation... the stuff in movies, I guess.
 
5:36 AM
Playing varsity sports, going to prom, slacking off
 
In my case... setting foot on campus at all.
I think I had to go to campus three times all year, otherwise I was at the community college.
 
You attended normal graduation?
 
Nope
 
Oh, huh. By choice?
 
One of the days I went to campus was to pick up my diploma.
 
5:38 AM
I certainly remember going. Pretty pointless. Although I went every year with the band, so it wasn't a new experience.
 
I... uh... well... I was in Seattle for high school, alone. My mom moved to DC the prior summer for a job and I stayed in Seattle... so going to graduation to spend time with people I hadn't seen in a year with no family to watch me graduate was... kinda pointless and also likely to be extremely uncomfortable and anxiety-provoking.
 
That's fair
A lot of people like the closure as much as they do the social aspects, though
The real social part happens after the ceremony, not during
 
I couldn't escape high school soon enough... hence taking college classes full time. As far as I thought about it, I was already done and I didn't have any friends. Nothing to tie me to anything. Was a very solitary year. I found the wonderful world of internet communication in the form of yahoo games.
 
@CodyGray apart from slacking off, we don't (didn't?) have any of that :)
 
You didn't have sports?
 
5:53 AM
not really, unless by sports you mean "we had a soccer field and a mandatory phys ed lesson a day or two a week"
 
Ah, no, I mean competitive sports
 
well, kind... of, I guess? I can recall some volleyball, a little bit of basketball, and non-mandatory soccer.
 
But you didn't have school teams who played against corresponding teams from other nearby schools?
That's what we do. It's how we Americans instill our tribalism from an early age.
 
6:12 AM
@CodyGray nope, never even heard that this might exist
 
Wow
 
I mean, in my country's educational system
We had debate clubs, though! And they did compete against each other cross-school :) but it wasn't school-related
 
So how were they organized, if not by school?
Oh, I'm speaking of all extra-curricular events, not part of education, simply sponsored/coordinated by the school
 
Independent country-wide non-profit
it's hard to believe, but our ed system used to encourage free thought and critical thinking :)
@OlegValteriswithUkraine in cooperation with schools and universities
 
That's one of the very good things about our educational system
 
6:22 AM
Firefox, are you OK?
 
@CodyGray used to be ours too for a while...
@VLAZ eek
 
@VLAZ Seems it's just turned 34. Maybe that's a hard year?
 
and which tab is causing this meltdown if you don't mind me asking, @VLAZ?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine It's listed as "webIsoleted" and I'm not sure what that is:
about:performance shows the highest memory usage of a tab is 195MB. And that's the about:memory tab.
 
Christ, recaptcha is using this much?
 
6:29 AM
No clue why. Or which page even has it.
 
it looks like... google.com, actually
webIsolated looks to be about, well, isolating tabs in separate processes
 
Yeah, the problem is that I didn't have a tab open on google.com
 
I think FF will separate some processes off in some cases. And that was one of them. I assume a tab I had somewhere had a ReCaptcha and that was probably assigned to google.com
That's my theory, at least.
I restarted the browser
 
@VLAZ well, that sounds like a plausible theory
 
6:41 AM
There is still the same entry after the restart. But takes a thousand times less memory
Oh, probably forgot to mention - I hadn't used this computer for 4 days and just logged in. For some reason the ReCaptcha thing was doing something and caching something in the meantime.
 
NAA of the day: "i rewrote my code. I think it looks a lot neater now. The issue was with my side math. Dont remember exactly but it works so cool."
 
Did they post the rewritten code? That could make it an answer.
 
That was the entire answer.
The question was only slightly better. At least that linked the code.
 
Not even a cell-phone pic of it? For shame.
 
No joke: there was this coworker who legitimately sent a picture taken with his phone of something he wanted to show us. A senior software engineer with 20 years or so experience. He had a reason for it, though: he had a Mac at home and brought a Mac keyboard to work because he liked it. However, the keyboard couldn't register Print Screen.
I can't remember the OS he had at the time. Windows or Linux (the workplace was mixed and up to preference). I think might have been Ubuntu. Might have been an OS thing.
 
6:53 AM
He'd never heard of the on-screen keyboard?
You'd think at some point in 20 years...
Was this event prior to 2009? :-)
 
No, was in 2016 or 2017.
But yeah, I'm not saying he was bereft of other options to trigger this. In fact on Linux (or Ubuntu/Debian derivatives?), I think Print Screen opens the screenshot application.
 
Not on modern Ubuntu
 
Hmm, when I think about it - it does that on KDE, regardless of the distro flavour. I don't know what Ubuntu does. But might be the same and you can open the screenshot thing separately.
 
I use it periodically, and it definitely doesn't do that. It just dumps a PNG of the screen into the user's Pictures folder.
 
OK, so it's dumb...
I can't remember what is the last version of Ubuntu I used. I know it was in 2014 and it was not the newest one even then. Probably the LTS. I used it for a bit then switched to Mint.
 
6:58 AM
Mint is so much better
Because Cinnamon doesn't suck like the Ubuntu window manager
 
OK, technically, I do use Ubuntu in WSL but only for the terminal. I can't even remember why I picked Ubuntu over any other WSL distro. But the choice was small anyway.
@CodyGray It's the entire reason I switched. I thought I'd give Ubuntu a go. It was soon-ish after they did their own manager (built on Gnome 3). And I found it constantly annoying. I would go and change a setting here and a setting there (disabling the hot corners, for example) but it felt like I was doing that all the time.
 
Yeah, in WSL, why ever pick Ubuntu over Debian?
Yeah, I use Ubuntu because that's the only officially supported build environment for a Yocto Linux build that I maintain, but ugh. I'm constantly fighting with the UI. I've wasted so much time trying to reconfigure it so that it's barely usable, and I still have issues with it.
 
Dunno. I know there was Debian and OpenSuse as other options when I was installing it.
 
The scrollbars in my text editor are completely broken.
I believe openSUSE is completely different, not being Debian based, so the commands may be different from what you're used to?
 
I think it might have also been influenced to an extent by the corporate firewall. I remember having huge difficulty installing from the Windows store. Might be just the one that worked.
@CodyGray Yeah, it's a different derivative. Other than installing stuff, it should generally work the same. I think. I use Manjaro at my personal laptop and it's Arch-based. You need to use pacman to install stuff but it's otherwise the same for usage and other commands.
 
7:03 AM
I really like the desktop environment in elementary OS, though
I've never tried it for real work, only on an older laptop used primarily for browsing the web and miscellaneous things
 
@CodyGray I just looked at some screenshots. Looks nice. A bit of Apple feel.
 
I've always meant to try it for real work, but never gotten around to it, primarily because everything I use Linux for these days is only officially supported under Ubuntu, and I don't need more headaches to fight with.
Yeah, it definitely apes a lot from macOS, but it's really elegantly done.
 
@VLAZ so... instead of installing a screenshot-taking program they chose to do... this?
 
There's at least a couple of solutions that don't involve installing anything.
I prefer not installing programs if I can get away with not doing it
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine In fairness, it's the only screenshot he needed to send in a while. More like couldn't be bothered, since it was a one-off task, I guess.
 
7:08 AM
@CodyGray that's true - just one of the possibilities if all else fails
 
I, also, rarely find myself needing to take screenshots. About the only time is on SO.
 
In fact, I think it might be the only screenshot I've seen him send ever. Not sure if he ever did send other screenshot to other people but I doubt it was many.
 
Ugh, spam wave started again
I'm over it
Sorta like how staff is!
 
@CodyGray Almost the same. It's SO and also for work. When reporting some bug in the UI.
However, SO is the majority of my screenshot usage.
 
Nobody pays attention to my UI bug reports, so I've mostly given up
Also, I don't use our GUI software because it's frustrating and difficult to use
So... there's that. :-)
 
7:12 AM
@CodyGray Heh, current project at work is to replace the old system. The old system also had an old desktop client which is frustrating and difficult to use. Parts of it are bugs-as-features that are years old. The "fix" is thus replacing the whole thing. I still don't know if we're improving stuff, though. We've covered maybe less than 10% of the functionality. I don't know when it's planned to "switch over" but can't really be soon.
The current project started 2 years ago - just before the pandemic hit. The old system at the time was more than 15 years old. It's takes time to replace all of that.
 
I love desktop clients
Just not badly-designed ones
 
How about ones where in order to do an action (like OK, cancel, etc) you need to press an F key. Like F7 for OK, F8 for cancel, etc. On some dialogs you can also click the text label (I don't want to call them "buttons") that tells you which F key corresponds to what. In others you cannot and need to hit the F key. On others, the F key is a lie and you have to click the label with your mouse.
To be clear - the last two are bugs. Just never fixed ones.
 
That... sounds like someone literally ported a DOS application to a Windows desktop application.
You know, along the lines of WordStar or WordPerfect.
 
That might be part of the design, actually. The "old system" is not the first one. I suspect maybe there were older systems that might have been under DOS and the "newer" one tried to emulate that for convenience of the users. Dunno, that's just conjecture on my part. It's an in-house system used by employees, so all of them require training to use it anyway. Probably why some of the niceness was left out.
 
Ah, I see. I didn't realize it was in-house only.
Yeah, my opinion is that if you need "training" to use GUI software, something is badly broken.
Either you're hiring incompetent people, or your GUI software is poorly designed.
 
7:25 AM
Or the company doesn't care much about that. Which I've definitely seen was the case in the past. Nowadays with the replacement it's better but still some of the niceness features are left out as not highly necessary.
 
What I never understand is that, most of the time, extra effort is undertaken to remove or disable the "niceness" features.
For example, we have GUI software that cannot be maximized. You know, Windows apps are maximizable by default; special steps have to be taken to disable that, hide the widget to do it, etc.
So why would you take extra steps and do extra work to remove something that is actually a niceness feature? The justification cannot be that we didn't want to put in the extra effort for niceness.
 
7:38 AM
I can give you an example, to illustrate what I mean: one of the new things we made was a system that is basically a fancy multi-step form. You're supposed to be able to add more information about physical items. In short, you have some configuration about the physical item (e.g., label, year, internal tracking number, whatever you want) that is just stuff the customer wants for the item. It may represent a folder with some documents, or maybe a box with whatever. What the system cares about
is what fields to display - label, data type, validations. Builds up a form from that. And in some cases has few steps to the input. The system we made as a proof of concept was workflow-based where you link up the steps needed for the information to be processed.
We used an existing BPMN editor for the demo and suggested that we can build our own editor (suing the same library) that would help you make new process schemas. It's also technically possible to hook up a schema to an existing session to see which step is done, what information was processed, what is left, what has failed (the information is stored, but there is no actual linkage to anything. Much less a GUI for it). That was never implemented, though.
Right now, you have to make the process by hand. Using a BPMN editor, then saving the resulting XML and uploading it to the system. The only improvement that was done is to make the upload automatic by bundling the XML files with the executable, so it will internally call the endpoint if it finds a higher version on the disk.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:55 AM
 
@VLAZ what. The heck. Is. This?
 
@VLAZ You missed the "rude or abusive" option, it's in the other dialog.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:47 AM
Asking the real questions.
 
11:05 AM
You don't have to censor the user names; that info is public.
 
I'm not comfortable with sharing the usernames. Feels a bit like targetting the users.
The content is what matters anyway. And that question was already deleted, as well.
 
 
3 hours later…
1:49 PM
@VLAZ reminds me of the cookies folder for slack in Firefox
If you leave Slack open all the time the folder will be like 500MB
 
Mmmm, 500 mega-bakers of cookies
 
 
3 hours later…
4:30 PM
Yeah, I don't get it, either.
I mean Flash?
 
4:57 PM
 
 
2 hours later…
7:26 PM
Hello 👋
 
 
3 hours later…
10:28 PM
So, slight update to the survey thing. I talked with the survey designer a bit and while not everything you mentioned was changed, she did see the merit in making the question about courses specifically non-required. It's not made explicit but you don't have to answer those questions. There also seems to be forward and back navigation arrows now. @OlegValteriswithUkraine @RyanM @TylerH
 
@Catija Glad to hear it! Thanks for the update :-)
 
I feel like there's someone else I should ping in that lot but my brain is a bit fried.
 
@KevinB maybe?
 
@Catija bit busy reading your longread on closure notices, brb :)
 
@RyanM Ah, yes. Thanks. :)
 
10:30 PM
on a quick note - thanks for the update!
 

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