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11:01 PM
What's hard is, you really have to read everything in order to make the right decision.
But...I mostly feel that way on main, too.
 
I tend to read everything I can. Of course, on Main, the decision to close, or delete, or flag, can often be made without reading all the content on the post. I would definitely be less likely to do that on Meta.
 
Occasionally, it works. You can smell a programming question on Meta from a mile away. I don't always read those cover-to-cover.
 
Ah, yes. you deleted that just as I was about to click the close button :)
No need to read the comments on that :)
 
I have an insta-close-and-delete button. Super handy.
The one I used is labeled "Not Meta".
 
Oh, a userscript? Nice.
Or is that just standard mod tooling?
 
11:08 PM
Userscript.
One I wrote entirely by myself.
With some help after the fact from Sam to fix it after SE changed the close system and broke it.
 
Very cool :) And you were going on about not being able to write them from scratch :p
 
Well, even in the initial version, I cribbed from Sam's existing scripts.
// Credit goes to fellow moderator Samuel Liew, on whose prior work
// (github.com/samliew/so-mod-userscripts) much of this code is based.
I think Sam's edits removed my attribution to him. :-)
Oh, no. I actually removed it myself, because I rewrote the logic differently from his script, and I didn't want to confuse myself later thinking it was copied from him.
 
I'm glad to see your attribution in the initial comments though. Honestly, does anyone truly write anything non-trivial entirely from scratch any more?
 
Probably
But it takes a lot longer.
 
yeah, you're right, they probably do. And yeah, it would take longer. Some people love that though :)
 
11:14 PM
I've often 'adapted' open-source code to my needs, only to realize, afterwards, that it would have been quicker to write it from scratch.
 
For some things, I do love it.
For userscripts, which I see merely as a tool, rather than art, I do not think it makes sense.
 
@AdrianMole Ha, I know what you mean :D
 
I still leave some sort of attribution in the comments though.
 
@CodyGray Dang, the timestamps are identical on the closure and deletion of that post. I'd never noticed that (or cared to look). I've just assumed there's been a 2-3 second lag between the actions.
 
If I use the script, they will be nearly identical. Otherwise, if I actually have to click, then no.
 
11:17 PM
@AdrianMole Credits to [...] for showing me what not to do :)
 
Hehe. But, though I like to think I would have thought of the same technique all by myself ... I didn't, did I?
 
Yeah, you're right. Attribution to even the idea is definitely a good thing.
 
... especially when, later, it's shown to be seriously flawed. :-)
 
Ideally, one would pay it forward by submitting a PR to the original project. That's hard of course, and assumes the original project is being maintained.
 
I need to start getting more actively involved in Gits and stuff. For some time, both my boss and I were strongly against making my code open source; but I'm changing my mind. Some of it (science stuff) should be but other parts (custom GUIs) I feel are 'ours alone'.
 
11:23 PM
@cigien That's a lot harder. You have to follow the coding standards of the original project, which is a much higher burden than simply submitting what you did in your own fork.
 
Sure. There are two different issues here. Forking others' work and putting my own on an open repo.
My current main project, for example, is 90%+ my original code (the rest taken/adapted from the Numerical Recipes book). That would make me the "master" of any repo I set up.
And most of the code I've stolen borrowed adapted came from sources far more obscure than GitHub.
 
Err... Numerical Recipes has a pretty restrictive license, if I remember correctly.
I specifically remember that I was unable to use anything from it in our commercial codebase.
 
I'm 100% non-commercial.
 
Huh. I just looked, and I wonder if I got wrong information.
"Can I Distribute Numerical Recipes Routines with My Application Bound "invisibly" into your executable .exe file? Generally yes."
 
One of my pet peeves is code emanating from research labs (in academic institutions) not being open source. I feel there should be a blanket policy requiring it. I've brought this up seriously in a number of meetings, and I've basically been told that I'm being too idealistic. The CS depts are generally more open to the idea, but there's a lot of resistance from the Bio labs.
 
11:29 PM
But I would check with the relevant folks in the Uni before publishing any code that's clearly from Numerical Recipes. (But the version of the book I bought came with a CD with the code on it - not sure what that means, though.)
 
Wait, no, never mind. If you look at the detailed page, it says that's not legit for commercial use.
That's a very confusing and misleading "Generally yes" statement.
@cigien I don't understand why there would be resistance. These labs publish their work; why not also publish their code? Frankly, for any paper you publish, the source code should be published along with it in order to make the work legitimately reproducible.
 
@cigien We published one paper that involved huge collaboration with CS; they wanted open-source, but my boss had the bigger gun.
 
Even in cases where your lab profits off of selling specialized equipment (as may be true in Adrian's case?), your customers should come from the fact that you provide a fully tested, verified, integrated package and technical support. Not from the fact that there's no other way to get/do it.
 
@CodyGray We ended up publishing the header files for the core library and compiled objects libraries for most major platforms. Adding that we would happily collaborate to make code for other systems/compilers/platforms.
 
Publishing object libraries is pretty much useless, by the way.
 
11:33 PM
@CodyGray I know - that's why I agreed to it.
 
@CodyGray That's my take on it. The response has been that it's not practical (my understanding is that there are funding issues, and other financial matters at stake). I can guarantee that Unis in general don't enforce that source code be shared at all. My Uni definitely doesn't.
 
All you'll do is lead people astray. They'll try to use it, thinking that they have the same version or "close enough" of the compiler, and find out that... it doesn't work.
@cigien Where are the funding issues? Does it cost money to publish code?
Maybe it costs time, except... how are you writing it in the first place? Aren't you using version control?
 
My concern is that, if I were to publish the whole code, others could work up a jerry-can version of it, thus besmirching our university's good name.
 
@CodyGray No, but the idea is that it cost money to generate the code in the first place, and so sharing it freely may not be the best idea. If you think there are issues with this argument, join the club. I'll send you a link, and you can zoom-bomb the next meeting where we discuss this ;)
 
Do you mean, the public funds research grants that allow work to be done that results in generation of code?
 
11:36 PM
@AdrianMole Let me guess, your boss was contributing a bigger share in terms of funding to the project?
 
This is my soapbox, by the way. Anyone who receives publicly funded research grants should make all of their research available to that same public who funded it.
If you don't want to do that, fund it yourself.
 
^ hear hear
 
Why scientists are OK with paywalls, I will never understand. (Most that I know, and most that I took courses from during my undergrad, were not.)
 
@CodyGray Yes. Crazy, right? I hear they do it somewhat differently in most of Europe, but I'm not entirely certain about the figures.
 
I've heard rumors that they do things differently in Europe, too. :-)
 
11:37 PM
Sometimes if you email the professor they will send you the code. I've had it work 50% of the time.
 
The typical failure case for that is that the professor can't easily put their hands on it.
 
@CodyGray I've always made it clear, in any publication (and in the software documentation) that we are happy to provide full access to the source code, on request. We're just not happy to have it hanging around on the InterWeb for any old hacker to wreck.
 
It's on some grad student's computer. Or maybe the lab computer, which the professor doesn't know how or have the time to dig it out from.
@AdrianMole That's reasonable, I suppose.
 
Ugh, thats what git repos are for.
 
Code being in a Git repo doesn't mean it's easy for someone to access.
 
11:38 PM
@CodyGray Very true. Getting a lab to put their content on a version control system is an uphill battle at times.
 
All of the code at my company is in Git repos. I guarantee you that I am one of perhaps 2 people who know how to access it.
 
I have almost all my projects on GitHub. But in private repos.
 
Still much better than it not being in a repo at all.
 
Just don't push very often ... old habits die hard.
 
You pay for private repos? Or do you get that free as an academic?
 
11:40 PM
Or worse yet, dropbox...
 
I pay. But it's really cheap. ($70 per year, IIRC.)
 
Haha.
That's not my definition of "really cheap".
 
Well, it's not going to make me starve through lack of funds.
 
GitLab is free. And with a better UI.
 
I shall investigate. When I grow up.
GitHub may even have an arrangement with universities, now that it's Microsoft owned. (We get, in theory, VS Enterprise and all the what-nots for free.)
 
11:45 PM
Oh yeah? That's nice.
 
M/S are quite clever when it comes to universities. Like drug-pushers. Give their stuff to the students for free, then they'll need to pay to continue using it when they start earning the big bucks.
 
Exactly.
I always push the same strategy in my company.
Sell it to the impressionable grad students; get 'em hooked.
Unfortunately, it sometimes backfires when the product is crap.
 
I tried the Enterprise version of VS but didn't like all the extra features. The Community version is fine, for me.
 
???
 
... and it took so much longer to start up, each time.
 
11:48 PM
The profiler and historical debugger are awesome.
 
I haven't used a debugger since ... ever. Profiling would be be good but, if I feel the need to get into that, I have Intel CPP (for free).
 
Doesn't that require using Intel's compiler?
And... what?
You haven't used a debugger?
That's like 99.2% of the entire reason for Visual Studio.
Otherwise, it's just a massively bloated text editor.
 
... whatever Intel CPP is supposed to be called. I get the whole suite for free.
I like the 0.8% that VS offers me.
 
Which is what?
 
Fast build. Git-link. Clang.
 
11:53 PM
No debugger, no profiler... what else is there?
You get faster builds just using Clang from the command line via your text editor.
And GitExtensions is miles ahead of whatever garbage is now integrated into VS.
 
I think VS has in-built GitExtensions. Or maybe GitExtensions has support for VS.
 
The latter.
VS has its own Git tooling built in now, as of some recent version, perhaps 2012.
But GitExtensions has its own stuff that integrates it with VS as an... extension? add-in? I forget what they're called nowadays.
 
I don't do anything very sophisticated with the Git tools. I push every now and then; I can clone my work (easily) when I set up a new development machine. And I can roll back when I screw up big-time style.
 
I rebase all the time. It's magical.
 
Ha! "Rebase" was the command I couldn't work out. I owe you some serial upvotes for that.
... told you I was unsophisticated. :-)
 
11:59 PM
@Scratte I have been summoned. What am I supposed to be doing?
 
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