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12:01 AM
s/clesr/clear/
 
12:15 AM
@Nike I’m pretty sure of that. I used MATLAB for the first time in 1993 or so, and the colon was a normal part of the language, definitely not new.
 
Based on the way that Aran-Fey reacted, I think I made it clear that I would never do it again to that user. I think Marco over-reacted though.
@CrisLuengo the colon was a part of the language in 1981 apparently, according to the link by Cleve Moler that Andras gave us.
 
@Nike In 1981 there was no FOR!
 
Did Fortran 90 copy it from MATLAB or did MATLAB copy it from FORTRAN 77 or 66?
 
@Nike don't do it to anyone else either, is my point. But yeah, you can ignore Marco.
@Nike neither existed in a vacuum
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I got your message not to do it to others.
 
@CrisLuengo no FOR!?
 
@Nike The list of functions/keywords from that year contains IF but not FOR. No loops!
 
@CrisLuengo Yea and MATLAB was around since earlier in the 70s so they might have got it from FORTRAN 66.
 
12:21 AM
@CrisLuengo No DO either?
 
DO loops existed in FORTRAN 77
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Still no DO!
 
Oh you mean in 1981 you couldn't do loops?
two meanings of "do" there
 
@Nike MATLAB as a lab tool to experiment with linear algebra existed towards the end of the 1970’s. The first actual MATLAB was 1981, first commercial version 1986. If I’m not mistaken.
 
12:23 AM
Mathematica went commercial in 1986
 
Oh, wait, they’re not in alphabetical order. There is a FOR and a WHIL.
Because more than 4 letters is bad, obviously.
But yes, no DO, and we still don’t have a DO.
 
They're in alphabetical order, but the screenshot shows functions then commands.
The functions are in order and the commands are, but independently, so a command starting with A would appear after a function starting with Z
@CrisLuengo bad for punch cards
 
@Nike I guess it took people a while to get used to the idea that they could now use longer names for things.
 
@CrisLuengo people still aren't used to it!
This commit was pushed only 2 weeks ago:
Notice what I had to do for LPPOT and IOMEG1 and IPOTL
 
12:45 AM
@Nike it’s hard to change a system like that.
I’m 1999 or so I started developing a MATLAB toolbox for image processing. My PhD advisor wanted to help, so he made a few functions: “eros”, “dila”, … I told him I wasn’t going to go that way, that it’s OK to type “erosion” and “dilation”. He looked confused for a minute, then said “yes, that is clearer.”
It’s all just inertia, doing the same thing you’ve always done without thinking about it.
 
1:09 AM
@CrisLuengo I don't think it's hard to change this system, especially in 2023 (decades after your 1999 experience).
I think the issue in the case of OpenMolcas is that the code literally parses 4 characters of the keyword. The keyword parser was written by OpenMolcas developers. Someone would have to change that old code that goes back at least to the 80s, and probably no one wants to do that (or not enough people can agree on what to do, which can be an issue when there's now dozens of developers, across several generations and several countries).
With Matlab and Python we don't need to write our own keyword parsers, and even in low-level languages we can often just find a good one online these days (one that hopefully would be well-maintained, so its developers could release a new version that allows longer-than-4 character keywords).
However, we were using a custom-built parser all this time, and switching to a new one would mean that several dozen files would have to change in order to use it.
 
1:28 AM
@Nike … so you’re saying it’s hard to change that system? :D
 
1:46 AM
No, I think it's not hard, it's that no one wants to do it / the group can't agree on what to do.
I could probably change the system in a fairly short amount of time, but when I'm working on OpenMolcas, there's a dozen other things I want to do first, which would have a bigger impact than changing this convention regarding 4-character keywords.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:37 AM
@CrisLuengo that's fine, fortran DO is actually for
 
 
9 hours later…
2:48 PM
posted on January 20, 2023 by wcampbell

Will's pick this week is MatCal by Bryan. I'm no archaeologist, but I read a fair number of books that cover the topic. A common point of discussion is the wonder and challenges of radiocarbon... read more >>

 
 
9 hours later…
11:44 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Why did you delete this one? stackoverflow.com/a/44599283/7328782
There's an interesting finding in there, I think. Because this one also works:
clear M, M(1,:,1,:,1,1,:)=rand(10,10,5); size(M)
It's removing singleton dimensions, and then assigning input dimensions to the : dimensions as they appear.
 

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