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2:50 AM
@LuisMendo That’s true also for the traveling salesman problem. You have the salesman traverse a list of pointers to cities, instead of the actual cities. O(1) solution I think.
 
 
4 hours later…
6:51 AM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Have you seen this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-YuZPT1NzM
 
7:20 AM
@CrisLuengo seen it exists but not my jam so I didn't watch it :P
 
@LuisMendo that would take self citations to a whole new level:)
 
 
3 hours later…
10:34 AM
Another hypothetical question: If we want to warp an image, we can use a deformation field (i.e. a vector per pixel), or we could reduce the number of parameters by using a handful of control points and e.g. splines to interpolate.
But are there other ways to parametrize deformations that are area-preserving?
I'm basically looking parametrized area-preserving transformations.
 
11:17 AM
@CrisLuengo :-)
@flawr Haha yes, this indirection concept solves all problems, not just in computer science
 
 
1 hour later…
12:34 PM
@flawr this is how its done in medical imaging
you basically fit a spline with X-pixels between control points
also helps regularity
 
I think that is quite a general appraoch also used for registration and stuff, right?
but it doesn't preserve the area
 
mmm yes but not always, e.g. in natural videos, smoothness is not strictly necesary nor present
are you optimizing it in some form?
You can regularize the jacobians determinant
if its zero, its area preserving
 
I don't have an application in mind right now.
 
some people at UCL were doing that for medical images, but it became numerically ugly
 
@AnderBiguri that's an interesting idea
I guess the determinant has to be 1 though right?
 
12:37 PM
yes
I said zero, but yeah, no, you write a regularizer that makes an area preseving jacobian return 0, that is what I meant
 
That is really interesting, but I guess if you just regularize then the determinants will be "close to 1" but not exactly 1?
is it maybe possible to make that a hard constraint?
 
if you are minimizing something, I am not sure you can make it a hard constraint, you start having ugly norms
you'd need some sort of non-linear norm I think, L_0 or something, which is ugly AF for traditional optimizations
The specific paper I was thinking about is:
Emond, Elise C., et al. "Improved PET/CT Respiratory Motion Compensation by Incorporating Changes in Lung Density." IEEE Transactions on Radiation and Plasma Medical Sciences 4.5 (2020): 594-602.
 
1:10 PM
flawr and the Y problems :D
 
@AnderBiguri cool thanks!
I think my google is starting to think I'm a medical expert.
@AnderBiguri my parents told me that as I kid I kept asking Y
 
lol
terrible joke, but I deserved it
 
but later in school I only ever had to find X
 
oh, it has more
 
@AnderBiguri I'm glad you appreciate it
 
1:22 PM
hahaha
 
posted on May 04, 2022 by Cleve Moler

... read more >>

 
@AnderBiguri I was just thinking: In order to preserve some smoothness you can still use the displacement field appraoch just with some regularization.
But for the displacement field it is easy to compute the area-preserved-ness
 
yes, I think this is what they do, unless I udenrstand wrong. The regularizationis both for smoothness and area-preservedness
 
so maybe one can find some projection from a general dispalcement field to the subspace of area-preserving displacement fields
 
but some of the smoothness comes relatively "cheap", as if you define your DVF as a spline on spaced control points, you are already imposing implicit regularization on smoothness
then you can just have some L2-norm on the gradient, if you want, but in parctical terms it does not need to have big regularization parameter
@flawr this sounds... reasonable, yet complicated?
not sure if that projection is doable
 
1:36 PM
@AnderBiguri existence is sufficient, I'll leave the implementation to the reader
 
hahaha
a real mathematician, I see
 
@AnderBiguri hm yeah that might be harder than I initially thought
let's start with the 1d case:P
 
hahaha
I was in this talk the other day, and someone said "In this work, we study nerual networks in Banach spaces, because everything is much easier to understand if its infinite dimensional" and he genuinelly meant it
mathematicians....
 
but it's true, many times discrete stuff is a pain to deal with:)
 
well I guess, except neural networks are almost inherently discrete operations
what is even a continous neural netowrk
ugh, trying to get my head around some maths and this Fenchel conjugate keeps appearing and does not matter how much I read about it, I don't fucking get it
 
1:43 PM
@AnderBiguri sounds like optimization stuff? I don't know much about that
just know "Fenchel" is german for "fennel" so maybe that's why you dislike it
 
yeah, its one of those magic steps where they go "thanks to the Fenchel conjugate, we can do eq(5)" and I either just beleive it or learn the heck it is
my problem is that mathematicians love to write the algorithms in a generic manner, but I have no idea how to convert some of that to human code
 
2:01 PM
@AnderBiguri if you can convert it to human code the math wasn't good enough :P
 
T.T
Its all "generic function f that is convex" -> "and the solution to CT recon is...". Wait wait, what is f in this case? "exercise to the fucking reader"
 
2:24 PM
T.T = ⊢
 
hahaha
PUNS
 
The question is, is it left or right-associative?
Is T.T.T equal to T or to T.⊢?
 
what if T is complex
 
should be the same
but if you're referring to the complex conjugate maybe ⊢̅
 
What if T consists of antimatter?
 
2:32 PM
I'm not a physicis, sorry
 
 
1 hour later…
3:52 PM
@flawr unacceptable
 
 
2 hours later…
6:08 PM
yes, and I'm sorry
on the bright side this means I don't have to follow the laws of physics
not even the laws of grammar
 

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