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08:00 - 19:0019:00 - 22:00

Sam
8:13 AM
@flawr Holy cow
 
8:54 AM
@Sam Holy Illuminati
 
Sam
That website reeks of the Rockerfellas
 
9:15 AM
Hi guys!
 
Sam
Hey Devil, you devil
 
Do you have experience with SVMs?
 
Sam
Somewhat yeh
Using a non linear kernel takes 2 lifetimes to train
That's my biggest take from them
 
@Sam Are you a cat?
 
Sam
Yes, I am
 
9:24 AM
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about... It appears to converge, but then just restarts... this is confusing
 
what do you mean, it restarts?
 
Sam
@flawr are you a snake?
 
@Sam nope, a slow worm
 
It says "minimum found", so why more and more iterations? Also why doesn't it use the GPU?
 
9:29 AM
@Dev-iL huh, no idea. I'm not familiar with matlabs svms
 
Sam
Is your optimisation a grid search maybe?
 
No idea
Why does that matter?
Could that be hyperparameter optimization over different parameters each time?
 
Sam
Because if its using a grid search it could be running all possible permutations
 
@Sam true; Also this.
 
Sam
Does it eventually stop completely or keep restarting? The restarting sounds like it's trying to optimise a different combination of parameters to me
MaxObjectiveEvaluations may be a parameter worth playing with
I don't really understand Bayesian Optimisation but what I would usually do is a course search over each hyper parameter space selecting 3 maybe 4 values of each from its lower and upper bounds.. Then perform a grid search. Once you've located a minimum you can "zoom in" further by restricting the ranges of said parameters
 
9:41 AM
@Sam That's the first time I'm running it.. It's been running for only half an hour
According to cs231n, grid search is generally not a good approach since it results in a lot of useless computations
 
Sam
Yup that is true
But, doing a course search first kinda eliminates a lot of useless computations too
 
@flawr So.... I got triangles
 
Sam
@Dev-iL Out of curiosity, how much data do you have?
 
My problem is I have a tetrahedra FE mesh. And I want to reduce the amount of tetrahedra in the outter boundary to the bare minimum, for a cube, 12. Therefore I want to triangulate a volume between a given arbitrary mesh, and a new surface, a cube around it
 
Sam
@AnderBiguri Is that one of your 99 problems?
 
9:47 AM
I did get somewhere with this, however my main problem is that this new triangulation does respect the nodes of the "inner" mesh, but not the surface
left: an arbitrary mesh, right: an area triangulated between that triangulated mesh and a cube a bit bigger
the problem is, the inner surface is now triangulated differently as it was before
so I can not stitch left to right
 
@Sam 12000*4
 
Sam
Not huge amounts then. Did you confirm if the restarts were down to optimisation?
 
No idea how to check it even... I tried pausing it and inspecting the many workspaces, but this is futile
 
Sam
Unless you have changed the defaults, you are currently running 30 iterations of bayesian optimisation over the parameter space
 
I hope you're right.. Would be nice if they printed something...
 
Sam
9:56 AM
For the time being, use a grid search with 1 iteration, and just see what returns
 
So you think I should stop it?
 
Sam
How long has it been going? How many times has it restarted?
 
Something just happened!
 
Sam
Woo!!
 
It ran for 5 of these iterations
|=================================================================================================================================================================|
| Iter | Eval   | Objective   | Objective   | BestSoFar   | BestSoFar   | BoxConstraint|  KernelScale |      Epsilon | KernelFuncti-| PolynomialOr-|  Standardize |
|      | result |             | runtime     | (observed)  | (estim.)    |              |              |              | on           | der          |              |
|========================================================================================================
Now this ^
 
Sam
9:58 AM
Yeah thought it would be something like this.. was there 4 other rows?
 
Nope, it just started the iterations again
 
Sam
Those 5 iterations are probably the cross-fold
My guess is: For 1...30 -> optimise the current set of parameters -> for 1 to 5 -> evaluate kfold -> return best result
 
Yuck. Alright, I'll go to lunch and see what happens when I get back...
 
Sam
@Dev-iL Let me know how it goes
 
sure
 
Sam
10:19 AM
Doing some online application form, and I've been giving a really hard "what would you do in this situation" question
For them it's a really good question because it's a catch 22
You are in a client meeting discussing a problem on a project when a colleague pulls out a document to illustrate a solution to the problem. You realise that the document is actually from a project with a key competitor of the client. When you point out the document is private, your colleague says it doesn’t matter as it’s for illustration purposes and nobody else will know.
 
10:35 AM
@AnderBiguri will the inner mesh always be convex (or maybe already brick shaped?)
 
yes we can assume that without problems if needed
 
hmm, that seems to be a rather difficult problem =/
 
Yes, I am not sure if its doable
but htat means I need to figure out an entire different way of doing some stuff in my GPU T.T
 
you obviously need to be able to place new nodes within the space between the inner and the outer surface
 
why?
 
10:43 AM
because the inner surface could have a lot more triangles than the outer one
 
so? that will jsut generate a very ugly-shaped triangles between them
but I am OK with that
 
so you cannot just glue a twelve (or less) tetrahedrons to the inside of the outer mesh and expect to hit every node of the inner mesh
right
 
In the image I it is like that. I am only ploting surfaces, but it is indeed volumetric
 
and triangulation in 3d is already hard enough - with constraints it will be even harderer
 
@flawr yes you can, you will just generate a lot of triangles that use only 1 or 2 nodes of the outside
@flawr yes, this is true though. I may need to change my algorithm T.T
 
10:45 AM
@AnderBiguri oh right!!!!
 
my entire methods needs brute-forcing through the boundayr
In the example above there are 220 new triangles between those surfaces. My only problem is that the inner surfaces gets changed
"only problem" as if it had an easy solution XD
 
yep =/
 
triangles are hard
▲ <- bad
 
especially when they have more than three sides
well I really do not see any easy solution
actually, no solution at all.
why don't you just do the 2d case and leave the 3d case to the reader?
 
well, thanks for your input though :D So now to the real problem: changing my initialization algorithm XD :(
@flawr because I need the 3D case, its kind of my job :D
 
10:50 AM
@AnderBiguri what kind of initialization
 
I have this tetrahedral mesh and a random line that may or may not cross it. I need to know which is the first tetrahedra that is crossed by this line, where is the input
my method now was: brute-force the tetrahedra on the boundaries, assuming I can have meshes with just 12
but if I can not, then I need some other thing
I am thinking on Quad-trees of the surface, but still getting my head around that, and how to include tetrahedra that are in 2 quad-trees at the same time, I think its hierarchical.
 
I assume you want a faster algorithm. does it need to be faster for every case or just in the "average" case?
 
it needs to be fast.
this operation will be repeated very often, so it needs to be very fast
 
is your mesh convex?
 
10:57 AM
then you could check the projections first, before doing any more complex computations
 
what do you mean by projections
 
the projections into 2d
(ignoring the 3rd coordinate)
oh if it is convex, then you could use a linear discriminant analysis
 
what is the purpose of this?
 
ah no sorry
sorry I read your problem wrong
 
I mean, I can get easily if the line crosses the mesh or not.
 
10:59 AM
completely misunderstood you
 
it sjust knowing which one is the first tetahedra being crossed
 
jup
need to get some lunch, but I'll think about it!
 
11:32 AM
You could 2d-ify the problem by projecting the surface triangulation into a plane that is normal to the line
how many triangles on the surface mesh are we talking about?
 
any
one of my examples has 41K
I was thinking on something along those lines. Crop all triangles where the nodes are to teh left/right/up/down of the line
to start with
 
do you have to do this for multiple lines or just one line? (per mesh)?
 
millions
 
line = tomographic ray stuff, right?
 
11:42 AM
@Sam it's now the 5th iteration of the 2nd batch :(
 
@AnderBiguri are the lines parallel? or do they maybe have a focal point?)
 
they have a focal point
single source, different targets
 
is it outside of the mesh?
if yes, we could rule out half of the triangles just by considerin their normals
if you have those
if you do a stereographic projection
no that doesn't bring any advantage
 
there is hardly any method to avoid computation of the intersection code. The only way I can see this working is if we just do not check some triangles at all. And the only way I can imagine now doing something like that is with some hierarchical structure such as quad-trees
but not sure if this is the only option. It sucks if it is because I need to code a lot D:
ultimatelly the triangle-checking algorithm is already quite fast, its the moller-trumbore
 
11:58 AM
@AnderBiguri yep I agree
 
Urf, something blew at uni and now everything goes wrong. There's no internet, I can't access my data, the front door doesn't work (who connects a normal, swaying door to the internet?!?) and I need to give a presentation in 30 mins, but I obviously can't access the slides since they're on the same server that went tits up >.<
 
do you have some telepathic connection to chatlab/talktave then?
 
No, am at home currently, across the street
Tried to find a USB which at least has some images I want to show, but in the pigsty which is my room currently I can't find anything
so back to uni it is, and give a talk on the blackboard, like the good old days.
 
so there is no way we could help you?
@AnderBiguri are those triangles somewhat regular? (i.e. about the same size, no angles too small or large)
then you could e.g. compute circumcircles(or other containing circles) (i.e. radii + centers), use the maximum radius to rule out all triangles that are too far away/certainly do not intersect your line
 
@flawr not necesarily and I rather not add that constraint
 
12:10 PM
but you could still try using this bounding circle method, if you cannot find anything useful otherwise
 
thing is, the moller-trumbore algorithm is quite fast removing them anyway. a cross product and a dot product and you already know approximately the same information as the circumcenter method: if the line is too far
and that is what is taking too long
so I am inclined to think that I need to make sure I do not even look at some triangles
 
you'd only need to compute the bounding circles for building an appropriate quadtree
 
ah, yes, for the quadtree it would be good
 
for computing the intersections of the remaining ones afterwards you still need möller-trombone
 
yes yes. I think im going to start with thi squadtree after lunch
 
12:14 PM
can I be in your squadtree? XD
 
haha XD
 
Thanks for the help btw :D
 
np:)
what kind of projection are you gonna use now?
 
what do you mean?
sorry projection has too many uses around me and I get confused
 
12:16 PM
well a quadtree only makes sense in a plane
so you'd need to reduce the triangles in 3d to a 2d representation
 
yes, but I may add the cosntrain that the area should not only be convex, but a cuboid
not sure, it seems just easier but less "nice"
 
otherwise you could still do a stereographic projection or something like that
because these are fun
 
yeah :D
 
well good luck with your trees! I g2g
 
Sam
12:48 PM
@Dev-iL Damn that sucks. So 30 iterations is going to take a long time
 
1:06 PM
|=================================================================================================================================================================|
| Iter | Eval   | Objective   | Objective   | BestSoFar   | BestSoFar   | BoxConstraint|  KernelScale |      Epsilon | KernelFuncti-| PolynomialOr-|  Standardize |
|      | result |             | runtime     | (observed)  | (estim.)    |              |              |              | on           | der          |              |
|========================================================================================================
 
Sam
Is it returning this matrix with the new entry before restarting yeh?
That's nice
 
Looks like it's varying the kernel function and the standardization
Every 5 iterations ("restarts") I get one line like that
Though I have no idea how to read this
 
Sam
There's also a C and gamma parameter its varying (as well as kernel specific params)
Yup I'm not sure on the meaning of those column names, I'll see what mathworks say.
 
I have good reason to suspect that this is the hyperparameter optimization in action.. Which I suppose I should run at least once
 
Sam
Yeah those last 6 columns are the hyperparams. I guess you should just wait and see what it spits out. Then train your final model with those settings
 
1:32 PM
Good mornin' fellas!
 
1:58 PM
We're back baby!
 
how was your presentation
 
Enlightening :D
I got access to the server 5 minutes after I was supposed to start, so I quickly got the slides back
No-one had a clue as to why I'm doing this particular thing (it has not been done as far as I am aware), which resulted in a very cool discussion of possible applications
 
nice
 
They gave me enough ideas to fill another year with doing random tests :D
 
research is never finished, just abandoned
 
2:23 PM
lol Ander, don't be so pessimistic... You finish, but a different problem to what you originally had in mind
 
hahah it was not meant to be a pessimistic sentence! It is supposed to mean that you never run out of ideas, if you ever change the project is because you stop working on the previous one, not because you finished it, because all research is unfinishable
 
2:35 PM
@AnderBiguri how's Brexitania today?
 
ah, well see
there is a bunch of idiots piloting it so who knows
maybe they go directly towards the iceberg, we dont know
 
Come to the light side :D
 
my gf is applying to a PhD in Copenhagen
she also applied to one in Utrech
 
Sounds difficult, living apart that long
 
I mean, I'll probably go with her
 
2:39 PM
Utrecht is cool, then you can come work at our PTC :P
 
shes just applying now
 
@AnderBiguri if you need any general info on the country, let me know. I'm not familiar with Utrecht specifics, but I might be able to find out a bit quicker knowing what to look for
 
ah, for now just lets see if she gets a PhD, Antropology is not specifically full of funding
 
fingers crossed :)
 
she applied to another one in the UK too. possibly more to come
The one in Denmark aparently has a 6 month ethnography in French polynesia
:o
 
2:50 PM
If you end up going to Utrecht specifically I can ask Connie about it, she lived there for 6 months
 
I've been there a week, its a nice small city
 
Yeah she loved it
 
@AnderBiguri 'small' city; he says about our fourth biggest city :D
 
3:08 PM
you have a small country
 
3:21 PM
^
When you ask a Chinese where they are from, often they say "a small city", and I alway slike to ask them about the population
often the answer is 10M
YEAH, SMALL
 
That's not all that's small in china
 
its definetly not top 15
 
I think that gif needs more jpg
 
lmfao
I had no idea that exists, but of course it does
 
3:37 PM
 
lol
 
I love that subreddit
birds with hands arms
I also love whoever thought this up. I give you. MEOWLS
 
you no likey?
@gnovice you ever listen to The Contortionist ? I think you would probably like them
Also this is me every time I look at the code of whoever touched this damn application before me at my current job
 
3:52 PM
@ballBreaker I feel ya. I was looking at some recently that had me repeatedly muttering "What the fuck?" under my breath.
 
hahahah yeah same here. I kept alternating between "Why?!", "what the fuck?" and "no, no, no!"
 
Never heard The Contortionist. I'll have to check it out.
 
This album is a masterpiece imo
@AnderBiguri Nice. I love this hahaha
 
I liked Money Shot, especially the first song Galileo. It gave me a bit of a Lush vibe. You ever listen to them?
 
3:56 PM
I don't believe I have!
Will check that out
One of my favourite ambient artists released an album this year that I wasn't aware of, so I'll listen to some Lush after that :)
 
Your xlimit differs from the asker — Dennis Jaheruddin 1 min ago
:(
Dennis downovted me because I downvoted him
but hes worng
and Im not
what a bad sport
 
@ballBreaker I first discovered them when I heard their song Undertow in a jeans commercial and searched for the artist. The Spooky remix is amazing. It has a depressingly nostalgic feel to it:
 
ah, what a stubborn dude this Dennis
 
4:12 PM
@gnovice I love the Tool Undertow song so gunna have to listen to the original first at least :D
 
4:26 PM
Every month we do a 15 minute company meeting where we give out treats for people's birthdays who fall within the month, and they do a little game with the birthday peoples
always like the distraction and today I get a free chocolate chip muffin.. So I went back for a second muffin. I tried to play it off like I hadn't eaten one yet, but I didnt' realize there was a massive chocolate mark on my face from the first one. So I thought I was being all sneaky meanwhile someone was like, oh youre going for seconds?
I had no idea how they knew until after I finished I went to the bathroom to clean my hands, and saw the massive chocolate mark on my face
 
@AnderBiguri Figure without white space is what should've kept in the answer, IMO
 
5:10 PM
@AnderBiguri how's his answer wrong? The image you link looks quite good
 
@Adriaan It should end at January
 
@SardarUsama ah, that makes sense
 
5:24 PM
First merging black holes, now merging neutron stars. What a time to be alive.
 
oooh, neat
 
@gnovice When two becomes one <3
 
I was wondering if they could have merged into a black hole, and apparently yes (but they probably didn't)
 
They merged into one big neutron star
Damn
> It took scientists until 2016 to announce the first observation of gravitational waves using the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory (LIGO) detector.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-11-gravitational-merged-hyper-massive-neutron-star.html#jCp
 
> the chance of this being a false result is around 1 in 40,000
 
5:29 PM
I didn't even know that existed
wait wtf, where did that read more at come from
 
@ballBreaker LIGO? Or the first gravitational wave detection? Or both?
 
woah
it just auto appends it
It does that when you copy any text on the website, neat
 
doesn't do it for me
probably noscript
 
both!
@AndrasDeak even interestinger
I kind of fell out of the physics community after graduation (2014) so I haven't been up to date with the goings-ons of things
@Adriaan you might like dis
 
the original gravitational wave thing was pretty epic
 
5:33 PM
I need to look more into this LIGO ting
I'm curious as to the specifics of how it detects gravitational waves
 
@ballBreaker Michelson interferometer on steroids.
 
> These can detect a change in the 4 km mirror spacing of less than a ten-thousandth the charge diameter of a proton, equivalent to measuring the distance from Earth to Proxima Centauri (4.0208×1013 km)[2] with an accuracy smaller than the width of a human hair.[3]
jesus murphy
 
that's one of the most insane sentences I've read in a while lol
Jesus
Coolest thing I've seen in a while
@Adriaan That album I sent you gets progressively better after the first two songs
@AndrasDeak Observations of GW170817, the first gravitational wave event due to merging neutron stars (which are thought to have collapsed into a black hole[1] within a few seconds after merging[2])
I didn't see that
Looks like you were probably right about the black hole
 
5:50 PM
the one gnovice linked says
> The initial observations of GW170817 suggested that the two neutron stars merged into a black hole
and later that they merged into a neutron star
 
Ahhh
From the sounds of what I just read, they merged into a neutron star, but later collapsed into a blackhole
This was a neat read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
Kind of makes me wish I took more physics courses in my last year instead of all computer engineer ones
 
do you know what neutron stars are usually like?
> Neutron stars have a radius on the order of 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) and a mass between 1.4 and 2.16 solar masses.
They are thought to be as dense as atomic nuclei. Which is to say, they are fucking dense
 
Yeah almost as dense as me!
 
close
 
> The gravitational wave signal indicated that it was produced by the collision of two neutron stars[21][22][24][39] with a total mass of 2.82+0.47
−0.09 solarmasses
Yah so it definitely collapsed into a black hole then
Apparently the mass limit is ~ 2.17 solar masses
 
6:02 PM
I'm not sure they know yet
 
From what I just read
 
@ballBreaker for "cold, non-rotating" neutron stars
for better or for worse
 
What's the definition of cold there
because I'm assuming it would stop rotating post-merge, no?
 
why would it?
 
Idk I'm just maybe trusting this wiki article too much
> Observations of GW170817, the first gravitational wave event due to merging neutron stars (which are thought to have collapsed into a black hole[1] within a few seconds after merging[2]), suggest that the limit is close to 2.17 solar masses.[3][4][5][6]
 
6:03 PM
A pulsar (from pulse and -ar as in quasar) is a highly magnetized rotating neutron star or white dwarf that emits a beam of electromagnetic radiation. This radiation can be observed only when the beam of emission is pointing toward Earth (much like the way a lighthouse can be seen only when the light is pointed in the direction of an observer), and is responsible for the pulsed appearance of emission. Neutron stars are very dense, and have short, regular rotational periods. This produces a very precise interval between pulses that ranges from milliseconds to seconds for an individual pulsar. Pulsars...
 
^ implies that they merged and then collapsed
 
no, it implies that ref [1] claims that they collapsed
 
But I guess the "thought to have" implies they aren't sure but think it did
 
@AndrasDeak So, would that make every neutron star one single giant atom, a unique element all its own?
 
no, because there are no protons (so not nuclei) and no electrons (not an atom)
but they are similarly a soup of quarks and gluons which is pretty cool
 
6:16 PM
@AndrasDeak Ah, I see. Hence "neutron" star.
 
yup
there's some reaction due to the pressure that forces protons to convert into neutrons
I guess the truth is more complicated than my previously mentioned handwaving notions
 
I'm always confused with people removing their code from their question when they've received an answer: stackoverflow.com/q/53302184/7328782 -- Should we just never this?
 
@CrisLuengo if you mean revert: probably, though I didn't read that one
it usually happens when one wants to cover their tracks
> A neutron star has some of the properties of an atomic nucleus, including density (within an order of magnitude) and being composed of nucleons. In popular scientific writing, neutron stars are therefore sometimes described as "giant nuclei".
> However, in other respects, neutron stars and atomic nuclei are quite different. A nucleus is held together by the strong interaction, whereas a neutron star is held together by gravity. The density of a nucleus is uniform, while neutron stars are predicted to consist of multiple layers with varying compositions and densities.
so yeah, I guess most of the neutron star contains individual hadrons pressed together by gravity
 
neato
I'm gunna look into the proposed idea of quark stars and strange stars
Delve further into the rabbit hole
 
@AndrasDeak Yes, autocorrect makes your spelling perfect, but you end up spelling the wrong words all the time.
 
6:57 PM
@CrisLuengo High precision, questionable accuracy.
 
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