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14:08
because its serialized
ignatu.co.uk/ViewStateDecoder.aspx if yo uwant to see whats going on in it
14:19
@drch there, actually pinned
relevant AND cool.
holy christ
im dyslexic
lol
Quick straw poll - are all BAs middle-aged women who don't understand software?
no
some are men
Agreed
"Men"
@LiverpoolsNumber9 BAs?
Business Analyst.
herp derp
And yes. My aunt is one of those. She also refers to herself as a software engineer, yet the only languages she knows are SQL and a few trappings of Visual Basic.
Her main role at her company is corralling the real engineers into doing what they're supposed to do.
edc
edc
14:32
I luckily wrote a web service in WCF and implemented a message contract
the client didn't tell me they wanted to consume it from a non-.NET application, and now they ask how to do it :P
@ShotgunNinja Sorry, yes. Business Analyst. In our place they spend most of their time asking developers to analyse stuff for them...
@edc they can't. WCF is a .NET technology at both ends.
@edc What do they want to use instead of .NET?
edc
edc
Java
maybe a jsp page
1
Q: Consume WCF in java application

Jeevan BhattI have a WCF which return a collection of a class. When i consume it on .net application generally i make a deep copy of server return collection to local collection. Now I want to consume it in java application so how it will work.

edc
edc
@LiverpoolsNumber9 I dunno. I have seen people writing about interop PHP with WCF
and it seems everything boils down to reading the wsdl manually
@edc there are certain bindings you cannot use with non-.NET clients, but I believe you can consume WCF services just fine with Java
just put in the WSDL in wsdl2java: cxf.apache.org/docs/wsdl-to-java.html
Wait, Sri-ni-va-san
Sun-da-ra-ra-jan-sys-con?
What a freaking name.
> Haiku.
omg tdd is satisfying when you spend all day making a red light green
@drch Assert.True(). Ignorance is bliss.
@drch ikr? I did that an awful lot back when I worked avionics.
14:44
If you're using the WSDL manually, you might as well write a REST service that they can consume. Eg Json.
Yeah... why not provide a RESTful API with JSON?
edc
edc
@ActionHank @LiverpoolsNumber9 Thanks. I guess they can try to wsdl2java thingy. Bottom line is they just need to grab a stream from the output, so it shouldn't be too bad
Why does the arcade game "Donkey Kong" have a monkey? Why isn't it called Monkey Kong?
They couldn't afford a donkey
It's the bot; don't mind him.
It's just one of the "bored" responses.
14:54
Oh.
(Boring)
So does he have a button for "bored"?
No, it triggers when it sees that the last post was a certain amount of time ago.
You should read up on the SO ChatBot on Github; I think it's a local install of the same script.
On that note; the bot is running as a userscript, if I recall correctly...
Either that, or with that one cool Javascript-based server system whose name eludes me...
Node, perhaps?
14:59
So... if we stop talking he talks?
Don't stop talking
Are there any keywords I should avoid?
!!/help
I think he's in owner-only mode.
I'm not sure if there are any triggers he's set to pick up on.
Check out the Javascript room; some of the owners over there helped make him.
Righto - might have a quick look..
Hello there.
edc
edc
client whose client is a big corp spent 18 months by himself to build some dashboards using our software. They came to us for advice on improving the dashboards. We probably will say, scrap the entire thing and redo.
15:15
i just found out i love coffee like i like my girls.
with no sugar or creamer
I love my girls sugary and full of cream.
^ Another bored response.
I'm so tempted to turn this bot shit into a game.
Vanilla
user1125394
ActionScript
@c'c Garbage.
@HangBot What is your favorite color?
user1125394
15:30
!!/choose blue red
We need @KendallFrey to chime in as to why this isn't working.
15:47
What?
HangBot is being obnoxious.
and not working..
!!/the witch is dead
I don't give a dead baby about HangBot.
15:53
!!/make @KendallFrey less offensive about dead babies
!!/make @liverpoolsnumber9 less sensitive
The role....to develop great code, using the most appropriate tools and techniques. They are currently using C#, ASP.net, MVC, Visual Studio 2008, .Net 3.5, WCF, TDD, various other standard design patterns.
VS 2008
AWESOME SIGN ME UP PLX
barf
VS2012 is the way to be
got an email about a work from home gig that pays about 1/3 what im makin now
might reply and try outsourcing to india
@drch - lol, mvc...as in mvc 1.
16:19
cc/listcommands
cc/google test
cc/msdn list<t>
Curse you.
cc/msdn List
Anyone else having their websocket fail on the main site?
cc/msdn list<t?
Progress...
@shotgun - can you check if your websocket is failing on stackoverflow?
16:28
cc/msdn list<>
boom.
16:39
@TravisJ How would one do this?
@CCInc Forgot to dereference something?
@TravisJ I ended up buying TASR and AMD
cc/msdn india
@Pheonixblade9 - Cool, do you have space left, just like $50 even? Friday at like noon PST would be a good time to get in I think
16:58
@TravisJ only $4 :/
@ShotgunNinja huh?
cc/msdn int64
@Pheonixblade9 - Well, good luck with AMD and TASR in that case haha :P
thanks :)
I have a page that is 150,000px in height and chrome has issues with user input on it =/
There is roughly a 500ms lag on certain interactions
@drch [x] feature request completed [ ] next feature idea
cc/awsm lol hi
tell me the laws
tell me the laws
cowsay hi
cccowsay hi
odd
17:12
cc/google derp
what's the best place for a programming n00b learn JS?
@CCInc Pragmatic Programmer JS
that or codecademy.com
cowsay hi
cowsay hi
cowsay hi
note to self: do not set <tbody>'s style to display:block;
ccowsay hi
17:20
cc/mustache
what lol why did I get pinged
lol
cc/fail
see
cowsay hi
17:23
effing tables...ugh, why? why did I use them even for my tabular data they are retarded!
cowsay Meow.
@HangBot - I will recycle you.
Sorry travis.
cc/eval 1+1
Its okay CC
Who sets these room topics??
17:25
27 messages moved to Trash can
You didn't have to do that
I'll work on bot when I get home
@TravisJ well... this one was me
See ya'll later
time for school
Lol well since it was you :P
17:26
room topic changed to C#: Insert non sarcastic room description here [.net] [asp.net] [asp.net-mvc] [c#] [entity-framework] [linq] [visual-studio] [wcf] [wpf]
Now tell me how to scroll my table body!
@TravisJ uhhh.... $().scrollTo()?
Nah, it is a pain. I am actually not sure what to do. Razor spits out <tr> elements inside of a table. There are...well, 175,000 pixels of tr elements and I want to scroll the inner part of the table while leaving the headers present.. It isn't working too well.
I might just give up on the headers (although I do not want to)
@TravisJ why the hell do you have 175k pixels of tables?
It is a trade off. For only 2.3 seconds of loading the search/filter options show instant (<5ms) results right on the page with no refresh.
It is our whole inventory.
17:34
@TravisJ why don't you load it into the model locally, and paginate through it with the locally stored data?
Pagination takes too long.
yui3 has built in stuff to do that
Love it when someone finds an answer of yours from over a couple year ago, down votes it because that answer doesn't work with today's technology.
yeah, current implementation requires no seeking with the mouse which is what pagination requires
pagination was someone's sick joke that the industry somehow picked up
I would rather have the whole directory and a simple filter tool such as an input box and maybe a few dropdowns to filter by types if you wanted to do that instead of typing in the type
Honestly, how many times have you made it to page 5 on a google search?
17:40
I clicked my way all the way to page 78? where it capped a couple of times (think it was 78)
but that was to see the cap
edc
edc
@TravisJ Put it in slick grid or something
I remember reading that it has processing inside to make things more efficient than regular table
@edc - Is it "lightning fast" when trying to manage 20,000 rows?
edc
edc
According to here, it can handle a range of 500k rows
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15783316/slickgrid-or-flexigrid
Can I make a property have private get and public set and set it from the public somehow?
17:55
Ah I see, it is pseudo (load on demand) but only display a few at a time
@Pawnguy7 You should be using a method
user1125394
how do you do a set subsctaction with Linq, such as [1,2,3] - [2,3] = [1]
user1125394
with Where(... !Contains) it's ugly
@Pawnguy7 you can make a set/update method but that is not super clean
@KendallFrey I was trying to C#-itize my code.
17:55
@c'c Except().
@KendallFrey It was a method before
why not public set if it is mutable?
user1125394
@KendallFrey k
It is publci set. It is private get.
It is public set.
17:56
oh sry
write-only properties are bad design
I could easily make it get, I was just trying to reflect the fact that no could would ever get it, basically.
*would
Well, if there's nothing wrong with a public set, make it public.
getters are rarely a problem ime
For example, anything you have as a short you could just make an int, but short shows that you expect a smaller value. I will do public get, though.
What are get and set accessors by default? I am not sure if they are public or if they take from their declaration.
17:59
They are whatever the property is.
As public as they can be, as it were.
@edc - The approach is an interesting idea though
edc
edc
@TravisJ Ya, the down side is you have to pass all the data to the client before it creates the grid, versus creating the table on the server side.
You might want to look at dynamic data too... they seem to make paging simpler:
Thats cool, but I just really dislike paging
If I have a public property.
Is it... to convention that is it capitalized?
yes
all properties
18:06
Also.
When you have public properties such as these.
user1125394
c# likes capitals
You normally have an internal value shadowed by the external (not manipulating the external variable from the inside, though it is about the same)
Yes?
do you know about auto properties?
public Type something {get; set;}?
18:07
yep
What about them?
nvm just asking if you knew about them, they are nice imo
Yes.
I wish auto-properties could implement INotifyPropertyChanged.
yeah INotifyPropertyChanged makes C# look like VB, so verbose
18:09
Is it to convention that, even when you manipulate a variable exactlly as if it were public, you have an internal, private and use that for internal calculations?
I wouldn't say so.
I have a static LineDrawer class, where you can set or get the color.
Should I use the property internally, or?
If I have a property that does nothing but wrap a field, I would tend toward using the property internally.
If you have extra logic in your property, then it becomes moot.
If you can't win, hack.
If you can't win, change the requirements.
18:13
If you can't win, cheat
@Pawnguy7: why do you have a backing field instead of an auto property?
Why not? :P
well the question of which to use kind of depends on why you have it in the first place
I am confused.
18:14
use the property
Why couldn't you still use a property that has extra logic?
You can, if you want to run that logic.
Take INotifyPropertyChanged.
If you want to notify (probably), you should use the property.
If for some reason you don't, use the field.
Or is it when you have a get-only that you normally have the public and private variables forms?
You can do either.
I wish I still knew why you use properties :\
18:17
To encapsulate fields.
encapsulation
Basically they make a gate that you have to go through.
This is useful for validation etc.
That is what getters and setters are for :D
they ARE getters and setters
its shorthand
I thought there were more reasons than that.
18:20
Than what?
private int _age;
public int GetAge() {
return _age;
}
public void SetAge(int age) {
_age = age;
}
than just shorthand.
vs
public int Age { get;set; }
BOOM
If you have used Java, you know why the shorthand is helpful.
cause typing sucks
18:22
Well, yes, but it also means it is hard to tell things apart. Of course, with a well designed API you can tell, but at a glance...
Tell what apart?
Fields and properties?
Yes.
Fields should be private and properties public.
That eliminates the confusion.
yeah you should NEVER be accessing a field from outside the class
unless its static or constant
18:24
and by static i mean static readonly
can you have readonly on static?
yep
I suppose that is pretty true. I have never seen an object (in .NET or SFML) that had fields in this way. With them being capitalized, I guess it works. Perhaps it is more of a... "muscle memory" effect than anything else.
um
are you coding in .net?
18:26
Yes. Why?
what classes are you using that have non-capitalized properties
> In general, it's better to use read-only fields unless you want to improve usability/readability.
lolwut
So... it's worse?
@drch None. I said "I have never seen"
oh righto
sorry misread
Also.
I keep getting bitten by non-mutable strings :D
I am like... someString.someMethod(), and then I am debugging trying to figure out why my string does not change haha.
18:28
Strings are reference types that really want to be value types.
@KendallFrey: who said that readability thing
yeah i dont click links to msdn forums
msdn forums is the Yahoo answers of programming questions
HOW IS BABBY FORMED
HOW GIRL GET PRAGNANT
msdn forums are stupid
18:31
Yep.
HOW IS DATAGRID FORMED
HOW MSACCESS GET WEBPAGE
@NinjaEcho $g Wannabe Geek
MSDN Forum question "Hi, I'm having problems connecting my console application to a WCF Service, can someone show me an example"

answer:
"Hi, you should use a WCF Service"
18:32
The first thing I thought of after reading that was SO to be honest :\
ila
ila
hi , first time asking question in forum , hope i no mess up rules . I read this on MSDN
Type Hint Position in JSON Objects
Note that the type hint must appear first in the JSON representation. This is the only case where order of key/value pairs is important in JSON processing.
hello everyone
ila
ila
is this really true tht we need to order JSON for desertaization
What? JSON can be in any order.
@ila: those kinds of things are used when you send a subclass to a service in WCF
18:36
My problem is still not resolved. when i use auto diagrammer plugin in reflector, it show me this message "Waiting for assembly" please help me to slove this problem, i need to this plug in because i want to see class diagram and their dependency in .NET in Visual Mode
void AcceptAnimal(Animal a);

service.AcceptAnimal(dog);
type hints tell it that it should deserialize as the derived type
ila
ila
yes I have a 3 derived classes on the server side
but if you are just doing normal poco json serialization, you shouldnt need that stuff
ila
ila
is there no way to deserialize if i dont send __type to be the first paramater. Since at the base of it JSON is an unordered set of kv pairs
is your base class abstract?
ila
ila
18:38
I face issue when i send a request
I'm pretty sure this isn't part of normal JSON, and I have no idea what you're talking about.
ila
ila
yes it is abstract
so how do you suggest the deserializer creates it?
void AcceptAnimal(Animal a);

data:
{
Name: "fluffy",
}
make me a cat out of that
ila
ila
i see , so it takes the __type to identify the class
how should i redesign my class so that I can skip ordering my JSOn form the client
{
"ID": "3d7effda-8e3a-4254-bc4a-32c473ce473f",
"Projects": [
{
"__type": "ProductEvaluationReference:#abc.Think.Projects",
"ID": "01ff01cb-d3a5-4a36-b274-446cdcbd93a2",
"Type": "ProductEvaluation"
},
{
"__type": "FinancialAssessmentReference:#abc.Think.Projects",
"ID": "403030bf-dc7d-4e4f-ae5b-b25c6b61e986",
"Type": "FinancialAssessment"
},
{
"__type": "ProductSurveyReference:#abc.Think.Projects",
"ID": "8e43e41f-d200-4508-9c48-f0ee6e8baf99",
"Type": "ProductSurvey"
},
{
"__type": "ProductSurveyReference:#abc.Think.Projects",
this is the JSON i am sending
is there any fix for it , or is it that client must create order JSON
18:42
what do you mean by order
ila
ila
basically if i send __type as first paramater
ila
ila
server is all happy but if i make second it give me an error
failed to create abstract class
Yeah, because it has to be first.
in general, you should avoid abstract types for your data objects
you could create a class thats

Guid Id;
string Type;
and then write a factory method to create the instances you need
ila
ila
18:45
i see. so it a bad practice to use abstract class on data objects ?
it can be problematic
datacontractserializer kinda sucks
ila
ila
ok. i ll go ahead and try what you suggested
thanks for the help
this is for a WCF service right?
ila
ila
yes
tbh tho
why not just keep the type information
thats just how it works. and its there to already solve this problem for you
are you creating the data by hand?
ila
ila
18:50
i am using ios client
ah ok
ila
ila
NSdictionary has no ordering
it is leadng to do stuff manually
im surprised order matters
its not supposed to
yeah i dont think thats correct. even in some of their examples its not ordered
and they even say order in general doesnt matter
in quite a few places
ila
ila
i have tried exmaples
do you have a [KnownType] attribute your abstract class?
ila
ila
18:53
every thing ok , but if i re oerder it breaks
even they write on their site
Type Hint Position in JSON Objects
Note that the type hint must appear first in the JSON representation. This is the only case where order of key/value pairs is important in JSON processing.
ah yeah
ugh that is so dumb
i guess its because they build the object serially but that kinda sucks
what about generics
you could create a wrapper class
Wrapper<T> {
T Value { get; set; }
}
then you could force the __item to be first in your client
ila
ila
what i m trying to avoid here is ordering
it makes me feel weird to order a JSON
ok
ila
ila
it defination says JSOn is unordered set of KV pairs
yeah it is, but its inefficient to search a file for a property and then go back to the top and process it
18:58
Wait.
What is the Count on arrays?
@Pawnguy7 4

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