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20:01
I'm not sure what it's trying to accomplish.
IndexOf returns -1 if the string isn't found. So that's pretty dumb.
hello guys
Can someone tell me nice program to develop C ?
gcc
Is it free ?
Yea.
If you want an IDE, check out Eclipse.
I'm not sure if VS C++ can do straight C or not.
Can Dev C++ work with C ?
20:07
not sure
also i have Eclipse, but i don't like it because its on java and its slow
I feel ya.
Nice, Dev C++ is usable for C :)
So now i need to start learning the basics
cout and cin
that's all you ever need to know
So now i made a new Windows application and its like C++ Windows Application.Must it be like that ?
20:13
#import std.h
So... this isn't C*, it's C# :p
Aren't they the same?
Nope
I don't know that C has gui support, for example.
How many C languages were created on this world xD
C# is managed code that runs on .NET or Mono. C can be used to program operating systems.
c, C++, C#, Objective C, Java... probably a few others.
20:21
derp. Kyle, your video is broken.
Oh, nevermind. I got it to work.
yarly.
you have to change the last three letters to png, then it works just fine.
yes
GIf makes it play double speed though
also yakety saks
20:25
I love that song.
Bwah-bwah-bunnabunna-bahbahbunnabunna
Does anybody have any way to fix CSS3 for IE8?
Yes, use css2
But css2 isn't as awesome.
And fix as in 'make it work'
neither is ie8
20:26
Isn't there a modernizer for css?
how do you mean "fix"?
modernizr.js
fix as in "Cut the balls off" or fix as in "Let it work" ?
and if the later, how does it not work?
balls are over rated. They prevent you from sitting in certain ways, and if you were a video game character they'd be your weak spot for massive damage.
20:28
THey'd also be great sex appeal for other female video game characters.
i'd be willing to take the risk
there's always a pheonix down
Do you like... walk around with them hanging out or something?
they are our weak spot for massive damage in real life too
@SpencerCole -
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
    <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge" />
dems need armor
i.imgur.com/g52o0.png this would be how it doesn't work. The left is chrome, the right is ie 8
20:29
lol, it does have balls in ie8
try using html5 and that meta tag
@TravisJ That... works...
Well, it's not exactly the same, but it works enough that it's not broken.
rite?
winning
You're awesome!
:D
I have to deal with ie8 too
I love how broken IE is.
Even after all this time.
20:31
I like how they put out new versions that are only slight improvements.
I seriously wonder if they know that they're the laughing stock of browsers..
it amazes me that IE ever won the first browser wars.
ever looked at your site in netscape navigator?
20:32
My solution to the big boss was shot down. I don't know why
Solution #1:

Do no change – make [Said Vendor] Change….
Assumptions

• WE ROCK

Infrastructure Requirements
• Pliers to pull [Said Vendors] head out of their ass.
3
netscape == firefox now a days
The only reason it has such of a market share is because it's the one standard with windows.
Can you still download netscape navigator?
@Billdr Nope.
Windows = IE = predominant market share of PCs.
20:33
@SpencerCole monopoly!
Simple as that.
and if you could, would it run?
That's how they won it.
What was left of netscape went on to become 'Flock'
And Flock died.
it doesn't help that netscape decided to re-write their application which set them behind IE for several years
20:34
i remember when they rewrote netscape from scratch
@RyanTernier - Well clearly your boss thought that pliers wouldn't have enough traction to get said job done.
Oh, and Firefox was an offshoot of Netscape, before Netscape was bought by AOL
they skipped a version number went from 4 -> 6
it was so terrible
FF skipped a bunch, iirc
right, because that v4 would have had so many little bug fixes, etc, all of which were thrown away when starting again
20:34
Windows 7, because it's the 7th version of windows. Right? Right?
FirFox used to do:
2, 2.1, 2.2, 2.2.2.2.2, 2.2.2.2.3, 2.2.2.2.2.4, .2.2.2.2.5., 2.5, 2.6, 2.7
Then all of a sudden they did:
3,4,5 , 15
@Billdr yes
I like TeX's version numbering
that's because chrome was already up to version 20
@RyanTernier Yeah, thats what I was remembering.
20:35
would you rather have firefox 3 or chrome 20?
Chrome is only up to 20 because they're always working on it and releasing small updates, and when those updates get to a certain point, they roll it to the next version.
public void foo() // I am called multiple times (possibly)
{
     SomeClass sc = new SomeClass();
     // do something using sc
     sc = null; // no .Dispose() implemented... will this suffice?
}
And they're on v22, btw.
do I even need to worry about it or will GC handle this
they are now
@rlemon you don't need to even set it to null
the GC will collect it
20:37
ok cool thanks :P
it gets marked for GC after there are no references to it any longer (i.e. it goes out of scope)
I try searching for this on the main site but there is always 90 million different answers :/
@rlemon - Not if sc contains unmanaged resources
I love the fact the GC can even collect an object whilst executing a method on that object
@rlemon You're correct. GC will pick that up. Dispose does nothing "Magical"
@TravisJ If you are dealing with unmanaged code, you need to deal with that within the dispose() method (or finalize())
20:39
^
I will look into that :) thanks guys :) always a pleasure
It's such a breath of fresh air in this room VS the PHP room or JS room (everyone is mean :P including me :P)
lol wtf
20:40
omfg I jut got in chat don't do dis
rlemon.github.com/Killit FOR EVERYONE WHO JUST SAW THAT
@rlemon - We could start being mean to you if it helps you feel better :P
@KyleTrauberman that is one of the reasons I make stupid little scripts like killit :P
20:41
i know
its horrible
I have noticed that when the transcript section changes and I have been in here for the previous section and current section that SO starts to lag my computer =/
@TravisJ "N0! You are doing it wrong! Your code sucks! Find a new hobby!"
@rlemon - jk :P
<3
what usually start as hobbies being children, become something that pay us when we become adults
:( ooooooooooooooooooo k..... (runs back into his corner)
20:43
In India, we go to engineering factories
pays us*
WHAT DID I JUST MISS?!
thats what you missed
20:44
@KyleTrauberman looks like something that belongs in Dr Who
(removed)
Aaaand there it goes.
EVIL EASTER BUNNY
dude looks creepy
@TravisJ You can break out the serialization logic entirely out of the viewmodel
With the expression approach it does not need to be in the same class
20:45
@JohanLarsson - That is why it is an abstract class that gets inherited if I want to serialize.
I have stockpiles gifs and images just for "related" links.
I am on reddit too much
2
public ViewModel(ISerializer)
{
public Serializer {get;}
}
woah lol what, you can't pass a variable into a class definition like that
composistin>>inheritance in that case
sry pseudo code i was meaning ctor
and viewmodel was just an example, I have like 60 different models I use to pass in to the view, usually MyActionVM
and if I want to have serialization available, I use
public class MyActionVM : AsSerializable
20:49
ok
public abstract class AsSerializable
    {
        public string AsJson()
        {
            var serializer = new JavaScriptSerializer();
            return serializer.Serialize(this);
        }

        public string SerializeField<T>(Expression<Func<T>> propertyExpression)
        {
            T field = propertyExpression.Compile().Invoke();
            var serializer = new JavaScriptSerializer();
            return serializer.Serialize(field);
        }
    }
Func<T> will be sufficient if you only want the value
but Expression<Func<T>> provides flexibility if you want to poke around
public ActionResult UpdateHarborRegistry(){
 var vm = new UpdateHarborRegistryVM();
 using( repository ) //fill vm
 return View(vm);
}
public class UpdateHarborRegistryVM : AsSerializable
{
 //tons of information about current harbor
}
in view
@model UpdateHarborRegistryVM
<script>
 var viewModel = @( Html.Raw( Model.AsJson() ) );
 //or
 var someField = @( Html.Raw( Model.SerializeField( () => Model.Field ) ) );
</script>
^
as an example
@rlemon me too
- Writes a new feature....
- Clicks Build...
\o/ YaY! Build succeeded!
- Starts Application
- Tests Feature
.... Works.... better than expected.....
I think it just about time to call it a day before I break anything now..
20:54
lol
yeah if you break something at the end of the day it can take a while to get the ball rolling the next day and can be pretty distracting at night
exactly... ten minutes left. and I have 100% working code. time for reddit.
I was coding vs my usb today, damn what a difference in speed when running tests
TDD + SSD = <3
or a new bookmarklet or userscript if anyone has any requests?
8
Q: Chat Easy Input Tools - Provides keyboard shortcuts for common text formatting commands

rlemon About Provides keyboard shortcuts for common text formatting commands, reducing the dependency on mouse usage. Current version does not have a configurable set of hotkeys but later versions will. How to use. All of the following commands are run if the user has focus in the chat input area. ...

^ always one of my more popular ones.
that and unicorn staring (starring? star - ing :P )
20:57
WTFPL
I am on Stackoverflow too much.
Stackoverflow is like a drug..
@JohanLarsson yes and?
@rlemon First time I saw it
ahh
No nesting.
haha
21:00
@LewsTherin goo.gl/XKwKc
hahaha wrong short link
my bad
goo.gl/kVCM0 there we go
i want that app ^^
Downloading my entire Humble Bundle library. Up to 4.5gb so far, another 15gb to go o.O
STOP
HAMMERTIME!
:) nice.
!!/tell KyleTrauberman help
21:03
@SPFiredrake steam :)
@rlemon we tried to get that to work in here, but couldn't
gave up
well i'm off to home. I'll leave the bot running
the only command I know that is currently broken is the js parser
!!> Array(8).join(parseInt('')) + " Batman!"
@KyleTrauberman I know, but I haven't been on Steam in a LONG time.
@rlemon Maximum execution time exceeded
yea still busted.
maybe i'l submit a pull request and fix it
21:04
Plus, it's nice to have DRM free games lying around ;)
@KyleTrauberman the best part about it is the live js outputs and the mdn / define / urban features
!!/tell SPFiredrake define DRM
@SPFiredrake Could not find definition for DRM
damn, well either way. it works for most things.
anyways, i'm off. see you chaps tomorrow.
c ya
!!/norris
@KyleTrauberman For undercover police work, Chuck Norris pins his badge underneath his shirt, directly into his chest.
VS was silently mashing my CPU to 100% utilization. Just sitting there in the background not even running the app. =/
21:07
!!/todo add Be Awesome!
@KyleTrauberman Unidentified /todo action Be
@KyleTrauberman Item(s) added.
whatever back to work
@KyleTrauberman Invalid /roll argument; use /help roll for help
!!/roll 2d12
@SPFiredrake 4,9 => 13
21:11
Damn, back to work then.
Anything less than 13 and I would've continued messing around.
^ xkcd 1110 click and drag MMO!
got stuck on a rocket :(
@Billdr What does that mean?
21:19
click the link above.
!!/roll 5456564d213123
Fly roughly straight up for a few minutes.
@TravisJ Could not process input. Error: Maximum roll count is 100
!!/roll 4d6
@Billdr 5,3,6,5 => 19
21:19
We should get a D&D game going.
!!/roll 100d5416243651243
nerd shame incoming
@TravisJ 46,46,57,48,82,47,36,39,41,63,54,91,97,84,54,29,80,15,25,49,45,26,4,37,95,44,21,‌​24,37,22,4,31,91,61,11,59,66,72,44,32,5,14,64,16,53,36,3,32,21,65,67,12,99,74,25,‌​48,31,47,2,68,7,59,82,35,50,25,69,86,31,50,62,22,64,58,1,24,79,5,81,45,52,44,43,8‌​2,52,72,57,42,19,62,60,59,78,82,59,96,99,74,7,9 => 4774
Really Kyle?
I've never played D&D, Magic, or any tabletop game like that
where shall I hand in my nerd card?
21:22
Server error (status 500) occured
3
Are you seeking to correct this fault?
We could put you on probation.
gj breaking it Travis.
@Billdr yes
@KyleTrauberman - Do you play chess though?
21:24
I have
I don't play it often
Well, that kind of helps I guess. But you still need to get out 3 mana pools, a pencil, a 3,6, and 12 sided die, and at least one can of mountain dew.
umm
where can I buy the mana pools?
i uh, this is like that bridge from monty python
hands over nerd card I haven't seen monty python either
oh come on, you at least have to watch the holy grail
21:27
Kyle, GTFO.
2
I'm leaving. If you're here when I get back I'll quote monty python at you until your ears bleed.
I dont like Monty pyton much
i liked the holy grail, the others were kind of slow
21:29
... damn netflix doesn't have it
riding a horse with 2 halves of a coconut? epic
anybody watch legend of Korra?
i shall ... acquire ... it somehow
Is that a nono to discuss on this chat?
is what a nono?
acquiring things?
21:32
...acquiring... never mind
Anyone good with the XmlWriter?
if I implement IXmlSerializable, hos do I know what prefix and ns to write in WriteXml()
Why use xml instead of json?
I wish it was JSON
Legacy stuff
not web
hrmmm fakk
my pc at work is still on
SOB
well then i'll just kill this one.
@KyleTrauberman you can bin all of this :P thanks
but I still dont know what namespaces to use, the XmlSerializer just spits out a writer to my WriteXml()
gonna find it out tomorrow, finally got debugging .net working
21:59
I am getting strange output from reading a binary file :(
If a binary file has 0100 0001
And you read the first byte what will you expect? 65 or A? I'm not sure whether C# has a concept of BinaryReader but if it does that's what I am asking.
Looks like it is FileStream
Oh the BinaryReader thing was a guess.
Anyway it doesn't print 65 like I expected
var Step1 = Step[0];
22:08
Mindfuck :D
@TravisJ from VBA?
I hate the first few steps of starting a new feature. Always goes so slow.
what is it gonna be?
It is going to be the removal of an automated process from the set target, and throughout the steps created in order to hit the target. However, if some of those steps have been already completed, then only part of the process can be removed and the target must be retained. All of this must be done during runtime as a preview to the user for confirmation of removal.
The object graph has a depth of 7. That is where the serialization comes in handy
22:13
same feature you described earlier?
I finished the other feature, which removed a subset of this one.
you write TDD?
Its depth was only 5
nope
no tests at all?
I deploy it locally and test it on production data.
22:15
ok, but no unit tests?
nope
I kind of rolled unit tests and QA into one.
the thing you described is ideal for tests
as a development aid also
The c# takes little to no time.
The user interface is what takes the most time.
ok, it sounded like a hard problem
fetching the graph is only a few lines. and after the graph is confirmed, manipulating it is only 20 or so.
but the interface will easily require 200
My last one required two views, and 430 lines of code
22:18
ok I suck at gui alwasy manage to get stuck on some detail, and instead of working around it I start digging
lol, yeah, I know how that gets
But at this point I have done so much gui that a lot of it is in libraries
is it wpf or web?
mvc
controller.cs, viewmodel.cs, view.cshtml are primarily what I have to do
the db stuff tends to stay the same, if that has to be changed then pain ensues.
have you never written tests by the way?
I have written Arrange, Act, Assert type of tests but I really think it wastes time. I can tell what is going on and if there is an exception it tends to come from some misunderstanding with entity framework which shows itself at runtime.
If I were to be developing in a team environment I would use TDD.
"Team" :P Driven Design hehe
22:24
ok, for me tests are invaluable
I am very aware of tests, using moq, etc., but I just think it wastes time in my current environment so I don't do it.
I find unexpected behavior all the time + it is really nice to leave a class with some coverage. Then there is a chance I will not break it later with some refaktoring or such
ok
I sound like a douche all the time
nah, tests are good, I am not arguing against them
some corporate douche
I am just saying that in this particular situation they detract value
22:27
yes it never good to be fanatic
do you work as a consultant?
No, I am hourly. I don't only do code, I have to manage an accountant, a researcher, and a few production workers.
a researcher in the harbor?
The harbor was just an example.
Something that was easily viewable as complex.
I have to do so much, if I were to introduce testing then everything would get bogged down. Besides, as far as c# goes, I barely write any code. I use a generic repository to do the db interactions, a generic factory to make dropdowns, and that is pretty much all of the c# I ever have to do.
For example, I have a pretty complex controller right now, and it is a whopping 90 lines of code to support 7 actionresults.
ok, for me it is the opposite. I've been writing libraries for a couple of months. Starting to think that I should make some crude gui for it now, but I really dont know where to start. Have hundreds of models that will need viewmodels and views.
Do you use some MVVM framework if you write wpf?
I have not written wpf, but MVVM is just a good separation of content.
<a href="http://stackoverflow.com/users/29407/darin-dimitrov">Darin</a> convinced me that view models are the way to go.
hm, guess that doesn't work. how to make a link in chat?
gotta go
22:41
copy pasted it
23:14
yawn
45 more minutes...
@KyleTrauberman switching over to this chat
what do you work with?
like, what technologies?
yes just curious
asp.net, jquery, ef, html, css, sharepoint
i know basic java & php
mvc
no C# or it is maybe implicit?
23:21
implied :)
but yes, c#
Its good when you guys correct my English, and hammer my corporate bs tendencies.
Actually I put some blame on Spencer he wrote so formal and good. It intimidated me.
11
A: What is the difference between objects and classes in C#?

Kyle Trauberman An object is an instance of a class. A class is the definition of an object. It does not actually become an object until it is instantiated. Since an abstract class can't be instantiated, no object of that type can created. A sub class would need to be defined in order for an object to create...

Actually you can create objects of an abstract class Activator.CreateIstance(typeof(AbstactClass),true)
Did it yesterday, was surprised when it worked
23:41
Maybe it was not the abstract class, it was a generic method chances are I got confused

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