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12:14 AM
posted on November 15, 2019 by Scott Hanselman

OK, fine maybe they DID teach you this in class. But, you'd be surprised how many people think they know something but don't know the background or the etymology of a term. I find these things fascinating. In a world of bootcamp graduates, community college attendees (myself included!), and self-taught learners, I think it's fun to explore topics like the ones I plan to cover in my new YouTube

 
@Feeds Quiet you!
 
 
6 hours later…
5:48 AM
Good Morning all! :)
@JackSparrow Good morning
 
Is that even English?
2
 
...
 
6:17 AM
Hi All good morning
 
mr5
6:51 AM
o/
@Skullomania this is a bad idea
 
7:20 AM
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' squirrelerinos!
 
Morning
In case you were wondering, TS5 is still crap
beats Discord at voice codecs, but the UI doesn't get better almost at all
you do get the ability to copy-paste images like in discord, and it looks modernized
but there's no reason to move to TS5
still waiting for a better alternative for voice comms... perhaps Mumble?
 
mr5
7:41 AM
What is TS5?
 
teamspeak 5
 
mr5
I still don't get how Discord works. All I know is that you can relay messages when the particular platform you're interested in doesn't support chat. But how is that different when users use Messenger instead?
 
hoi! :)
 
@mr5 completely different, it's like a server where you can create IRC channels basically
take it as the stackoverflow chat, but a fully developed idea where you can also integrate any kind of bot seamlessly and do some very low quality (yet functional) voice chat rooms.
it also features a pretty cool API to connect Discord to your own app if you so desire
 
mr5
But from a non-developer standpoint, how are they able to appreciate those things you say?
 
7:50 AM
because it's easily doable, all of it
 
mr5
Or maybe they just hate mainstreams so they resort to this?
 
you don't need to write a single instruction, it seamlessly integrates with the UI, provides a very rich UX
you click server -> add bot. Take the bot you want from the internet, import into server... boom
you need to do the configuration still, but that's something else
you want to create more channels? go ahead
all channels are persistent and allow you to pin important stuff
wanna create a voice channel? Again. Right click
Organization is still trash, it's not designed for very large infrastructure
TS does better than Discord at that, at least you can create a hierarchy
 
@HéctorÁlvarez ts5?
I didn't even know there is a ts4
 
11 mins ago, by Héctor Álvarez
teamspeak 5
They skipped TS4
 
7:53 AM
probably because it was the same shit as TS3 and decided to scrap it and start the UI design over
 
I liked ts2 the most
 
ye me too
 
also ts3 > discord any time
ressource wise
 
now they made something like discord visually, but icons are all over the place, not intuitive to use, very ugly
yes, resource wise and codec wise, discord has VEEEERY bad audio codecs,
half the time it just doesn't work well
 
mr5
squirrel is lowkey referring to type script
 
7:55 AM
picks up a lot of noise, sometimes it picks up the noise but doesn't pick up actual voice
 
mr5
or just use Messenger :)
 
I lothe discord and love team speak!
Chatting might be a different thing
Organising aswell
 
Also Discord applies a few mic effects to make it look like the issues aren't there, but it's very noticeable when the pre-amp kicks
 
But when playing with your friend, or with random people on the internetz, nothnigs beats teamspeak
 
Morning.
 
7:56 AM
exactly
o/
 
Heyho sama senpai
 
TS5 is shit
Discord is shit
 
ts3 is gouda
ts2 is masta race
 
It's a matter of time until someone actually makes something usable
 
Teamspeak is usefull?!
 
7:58 AM
TS3 has good quality, but the design is so early 2000
TS5 was meant to be the face washup, but it's probably been made by devs who have no idea about frontend development
seriously check it out, buttons are all over the place, still missing critical features like focus the channel tree where you are
 
mr5
how are we suppose to check it out. give te link
 
how did they not thing about this? Go through it for a couple minutes, you have a platform that supports over 1k channels, let me know where I am
Uh I was given a beta
but I assume screenshots would be around
I can send pics when I get back home
 
mr5
@HéctorÁlvarez do you think my long-polling chat will make it?
 
No, it uses PHP
that's bound to die young
But the idea is coolio
jk I don't even know what it does because no docs
if you use good audio codecs and a good infrastructure someone could make the client for you, or you could make a trash UI at first and then change it into something pretty
(once the base app works)
 
mr5
lol I made it for student's thesis
it's just plain chat you know. nothing fancy like those things you say
 
8:04 AM
oh
then nope, it won't cut it
 
mr5
carbonmade deleted my online portfolio :(
I put my game screenshots there now it's gone
 
it needs low latency audio chat
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Rarely anyone develops that way nowadays; it's always pwetty-UI first and worry about good infra/ux later
 
@RoelvanUden ew that explains the insurmountable amount of trash out there, put visuals ahead of performance
It's impossible to know exactly how the UI should be until you have the features on the table and want to use them
 
Yeah, a good looking app sells better than a good tech/ux with less pwetty UI
But yeah, you can only do a good UX once you've got the features down.
For my hobby app i'm just revising the ux as I understand more 'bout how I use the app myself :P
 
8:07 AM
Right
My mockups are usually bright colored buttons on dark grey background
like a 1995 website
 
mr5
r u doing mobile app roel?
 
mr5
what framework are you using?
 
Hm, React? I'm doing a PWA.
For hobby app, I'm doing a TypeScript+React+Mobx+Material app.
For work, I use TypeScript+React+Mobx+Material with Xamarin or Cordova.
 
mr5
ew another React again
seems like React is gaining more popularity compared to shitty XF
 
8:13 AM
Haha, I just looked back. This is how my UX changed over 3 versions (so far).

UX iteration #01:
https://github.com/mangaloyalty/mangaloyalty/tree/0.5.0#mangaloyalty-in-action
UX iteration #2:
https://github.com/mangaloyalty/mangaloyalty/tree/0.6.0#mangaloyalty-in-action
UX iteration #3:
https://github.com/mangaloyalty/mangaloyalty/tree/v0.7.2#mangaloyalty-in-action
 
mr5
But I do hope it will gain its reputation someday
 
@mr5 why is it a bad idea?
 
mr5
@RoelvanUden It looks like a HH website lol
 
good morning
 
@mr5 What is HH?
 
mr5
8:15 AM
@Skullomania you would double or triple or even more the size whereas when you do transfer it using binary, it's pretty small and simple.
@RoelvanUden hentai
 
It is, in a way, I guess. You can also read adult manga with the app.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan \o
 
Morning o/
 
@RoelvanUden In germany it stands for a phrase we usualy don't shout anymore unless your views are far right, politically.
This makes me think.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan is there a general hatered or mistrust towards germans in Israel?
 
@Squirrelintraining wow.. didn't know Germans were so into Hentai (kidding, I know what it means)
 
8:18 AM
@mr5 React allows for a very nice code structure that is easy to write and maintain, with a very rapid development cycle (when you save, your app literally reloads in a few milliseconds). Furthermore, since you can use write any type of app, whether it is desktop, mobile or a web-based app, you can use the same skill set and approach for everything you design. It's very efficient in that regard.
 
@Squirrelintraining In the two generations before me, certainly - there was a huge issue in the 70's, I think, when the Israeli government issued a contract for service vehicles to Volkswagen, and there was a big public outcry about the Israeli government dealing with Germans. By my generation (3rd generation since the holocaust) most of it has subsided, though it can still occasionally resurface as part of populistic "everyone is antisemitic!" propaganda.
 
Yeah kinda thought so.
I remember two years ago or so, Merkel said something critical about Netanyahu and he was like "oh those nazi talks again"
!!afk
 
mr5
@RoelvanUden I guess you're right. Writing mobile apps this days doesn't require it to be fully fast. At least when you're not making games.
but you did reply on a wrong comment id
 
@Squirrelintraining Well, you said "Netanyahu", you said "populistic propaganda".
 
mr5
Suppose I have this property Action<object, SourceEventArgs<T>> Action { get; set; }
I'm trying to invoke it using reflection with this code:
var t1 = typeof(SourceEventArgs<>);
var t2 = t1.MakeGenericType(dataType);
var actionType = typeof(Action<>).MakeGenericType(new Type[] { typeof(object), t2 });
var del = Delegate.CreateDelegate(actionType, fallback, "Action"); // target is the instance
line 3 throws and I'm not sure why.
 
8:22 AM
@mr5 Also, if the problem is that the app is deployed as wasteful javascript instead of binary, simply find a way to write it using the tools and architecture you want, then find a way to convert it to binary for deployment. Or, as it's commonly known, WASM.
@mr5 What exception?
 
@mr5 JavaScript is often as fast as native, as long as you know what you're doing. I'd argue that most games run perfectly fine with being JavaScript-based. There's Canvas and WebGL and both are very high-performance. It's only when you enter AAA territory when other options might be better.
 
Well, at the moment we are being spied on by the government, they are stealing out position data from our phones
 
Also.. an app size of 2-3MB for a material/react app doesn't really matter to anyone nowadays.
 
> Canvas and WebGL and both are very high-performance
 
mr5
> The number of generic arguments provided doesn't equal the arity of the generic type definition.
Parameter name: instantiation
 
8:23 AM
not even close to working back to back with the perpetrators of the Holocaust, but still...
 
Sure?
 
@nyconing Yeah.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Also by Google, Skyhook, your cellular provider, 10-20% of the apps on your phone, and your neighbor with the binoculars watching you through the window.
@mr5 I'm guessing typeof(Action<>) resolves to Action<T>, not to Action<T1,T2>
 
mr5
@RoelvanUden I once wrote a game using Cordova. It's a simple snake with a flappy bird twist. I have a low end device when I'm developing it and the lag is unbearable.
 
> as long as you know what you're doing
 
8:25 AM
Apparently Iraq is interrupting internet service to the country to counteract protests and riots
which is also probably why you aren't reading about much of this in the news
 
@mr5 If you follow the best practices of, say, Phaser, then making such a game perform well is trivial.
 
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan so typeof(Action<,>)?
 
@mr5 Possibly? I'm not sure I ever tried it.
@Neil Iraq or Iran?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Iraq
Is Iran going through something similar?
 
Yup.
The 2019 Iranian fuel protests are a series of ongoing protests by the Iranians who are protesting the increase in the price of fuel. The protests started in the evening of 15 November in Ahvaz, after the government announced increases in the fuel price of up to 200%. The worst protests have occurred in the oil-rich, but impoverished, Khuzestan province.The protests are the first to involve middle-class Iranians since the 2009 Iranian presidential election protests. As of 18 November, the Iranian government claims that at least 6 people have died. However, the human rights organization Amnesty...
 
8:27 AM
2019 will be forever remembered as the year of the protests
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Yes that's why I don't really care much about it. At least they are transparent while doing it
 
@mr5 I think the reason why I did it the way I did was due to some solution I read at the time. The research I did landed me on several PDF viewers none of which worked well, or had been documented well then I landed on this one. This is the way the documentation explained how to get it to work. I suppose transferring it as binary, then converting it to a blob on the client side should work.
 
Wow the world is going down to shit
 
I wonder if I can take the day of work giving "because looking for a new job stressful" as the reason. They might not appreciate it.
 
I will look into it
 
8:32 AM
@mr5 It seems to compile, at least.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan no, you may not appreciate the outcome either. Fake it until you make it buddy
 
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yes. it's working. next prob: line 4 :D
 
Also, seems I'm going to have to brush up on my C++. *shrug*.
 
Do you really want to go back to unmanaged?
You'll dream of automatic garbage collection
 
Not really, but it's not going to be a deal breaker for an interesting project at a good company. And it's a good company.
And they do use C++17, at least.
 
8:45 AM
with smart pointers, it's basically the same
I mean there's no garbage collection, it gets freed when no longer referenced but still
you don't have to worry about freeing it up yourself
 
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan same. an employer also contacted me about a well paying job. it makes me think
 
It's certainly much better than using raw pointers.
 
good morning
 
mr5
class SourceEventWithMode<T>
{
	public delegate void Action(object sender, SourceEventArgs<T> e);
}

var a = new SourceEventWithMode<int>
{
	Action = ??
};
 
@Neil is that synchronously?
 
mr5
8:46 AM
why is the above not valid?
 
@TomW synchronously with what?
 
like there's a compiler generated call to free when a smart pointer goes out of scope?
 
@mr5 delegate simply defines a delegate. It's not a member, it's an inner type.
 
synhcronous with the code where the pointer goes out of scope, I mean
 
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan oh. but why does it needs to be inside a class then?
 
8:47 AM
var myDelegate = new SourceEventWithMode<int>.Action((s,e) => whatever);
 
Honestly not sure how they do it, but my guess is the smart pointer is simply a local variable with a pointer and a number of references. If the local variable is about to be destroyed and number of references is 1, it means it is the last reference, and so frees up the pointer
 
@mr5 Only if you want it to inherit the class's generic parameter.
 
otherwise it doesn't do anything
Not sure how it obtains that information though
 
Anyone knows the CSS class/id for new messages?
 
I do distinctly remember lots of C# guides saying "garbage collection isn't reference counting" so presumably they say that to distinguish from an approach that is reference counting
which is probably that
 
8:49 AM
@TomW I think that's how C++ does it.
 
It depends on the type of smart pointer.
 
I can't imagine how else you could do something like that
 
without doing too much research on my side, maybe its a dumb question (well i should definitely explore things first on my own but im lazy today). Is it possible to migrate social users(those who have registered using facebook, google) from 2 different platforms to a third one?
 
damn it shifts too fast! :(
 
You can have an std::unique_ptr which explicitly says "when I go out of scope, deallocate the memory, don't share it with any other reference".
 
8:50 AM
I know every social app is using its secret when trying to authenticate with those sites, so im not sure if an exact data copy would work in this case
 
std::shared_ptr is for sharing references with other scopes, and I assume it does ref counting.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan what happened with your current job?
 
@ntohl I've decided to stop doing contracting jobs and move to one of the big tech firms for some more stability (and, as an added bonus, quite a higher salary)
 
So I'm trying to build an ActionFilter for our (non-MVC) controller methods. Microsoft has this docs entry for the ActionFilters, which says it's old. The recommend button redirects to the ASP.NET Homepage. Google only finds this docs entry about MVC ActionFilters.
 
> std::unique_ptr — a smart pointer that owns a dynamically allocated resource;
std::shared_ptr — a smart pointer that owns a shared dynamically allocated resource. Several std::shared_ptrs may own the same resource and an internal counter keeps track of them;
std::weak_ptr — like a std::shared_ptr, but it doesn't increment the counter.
 
8:52 AM
Do they want me to use the MVC stuff for non-MVC controllers?
 
!~sandbox
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan your last contract was quiet long. Wasn't it?
 
jack, sandbox
 
one possibility is to use the user identifier(since that is unique in those platforms) again register the user and match them with that identifier?
 
8:53 AM
Is that even English?
 
@Squirrelkiller As of ASP.NET Core (and before, I think?) there isn't any distinction between MVC and WebAPI.
 
@Proxy Facebook exposes a dump of all the data they have on you, as they are required to by EU law, but I'd be surprised if they would be prepared to expose that to a third party client
 
@ntohl Yeah, I've been here for two years.
 
God dammit!
 
good luck
 
8:53 AM
Uhhh Core is like 2 years away for us
We're on 451
 
I was in 4.5.1 about 3 years ago
and eended up at 4.7.2
 
I mean MVC and WebAPI have different base classes for its controllers
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan less security but on the plus side, the money's worse? Contracting is a great deal!
 
@TomW In this case, I'll get a significant salary bump as well.
 
Contracting is usually the catch-all "...but I get paid lots of money" defence
 
8:55 AM
It took me a deal of effort to figure out how to actually setup a simple REST API in Core. Why do they keep changing literally everything with every new iteration?
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Aren't you having fun?!
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Personally, I think ASP.NET Core is a significant improvement in the API structure.
 
I mean its very similar how you setup your api via owin in .net 4.x
 
mr5
downside of using C++ when debugging is the esoteric error messages it generates
 
8:57 AM
@TomW no, we have two smaller platforms that have facebook login. We want to migrate everything to a third one (all are distinct databases).
 
mr5
especially when you're working with generics
 
@Neil They they really put the fun back in functions.
 
i think i could use the UUID from fb to identify users and re register them again (this way saving data that they have entered on those 2 platforms)
 
@mr5 True, but my interviewer specifically mentioned that the extensive in-house frameworks and libraries gave him stack traces as clear and detailed as he used to get with Java.
 
8:58 AM
@Proxy right so the identity provider is Facebook but both originating sites are yours?
 
yeah
 

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