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04:10
howdy
04:38
anyone here
 
1 hour later…
05:48
Good morning
Morning /o
@Feeds Either it's really bad or I didn't get half the jokes
I think Joke is on Denver as mentioned at the top, but yes I didn't get half the jokes either, maybe someone from Denver or nearby might know the context
06:20
@anand_v.singh I think the joke is that you'll assume they're all true because the first facts are true
In other words, the joke is on you :P
xkcd sometimes trolls you.. though they're at least very obvious trollls
Mornin' laddies.
I got the water part, we solved physics problems on that not so long ago, and the golf ball I assumed true, but I didn't get the Balloons as Nukes, Marijuana, Scrabble joke
@RoelvanUden morning senpai
I mean even the age joke makes a bit sense as oxygen consumption is lower so you feel the effects of age less (Don't exactly remember the science behind that one tbh.)
@anand_v.singh Basically oxygen kills you slowly, less pressure means less air concentration. Also the cold climate helps.
06:28
But Anyways today in India we are counting votes and the party Hasan Minhaj Demonized is Winning and the won he praised is getting it's ass kicked, so I am elated
@HéctorÁlvarez Cold helps, didn't hear that one before, plus altitude also leads to decrease in height as far as I remember, but again my Last BIO class was 7 years ago, so don't take my word for it
ohayou
06:53
@anand_v.singh Hasan Minhaj Demonized? I'm hoping "demonized" has some meaning that I'm not familiar with
yo
@Neil It seems like the usual definition for me. I think it's the capitalization that threw you off. 1. anand disagrees with Hasan Minhaj. 2. Hasan Minhaj demonized party X. 3. Party X is winning. 4. Profit!
@Neil Nah, he strictly went after them trying to paint them in a very bad light, taking small things out of context and portraying them as that was all what it was about, he actually said that current Prime Minister Mr. Modi was destroying India's culture of acceptance
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos!
morning!
07:08
ohhh I totally misread that
I wouldn't vote for a demonized Hasan Minhaj, or any other demonized thing for the record
seems like a bad idea
I didn't know what this figure was until now
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan ooooh.. thanks, I didn't get that either..! well spotted
To be fair I don't really concern myself with any Asian stuff except Japan
Because I'm a bit of a weeb
today is a special day - today is the day that our company will try to work with scrum, together, with a shared goal - instead of everyone focusing on their specific product(s). We will have a grooming meeting where we will sit and check the issues in our tracker and decide how we should work together within a sprint
You'd think this wouldn't be an issue, but there are still those within our company who are against sharing information, believes that it is the company's best interest that noone knows what anyone else is doing and everyone prioritizes the issues that are phoned in / emailed i
I've been waiting for this day for 3 years
Congrats to whomever pushed and made this happen. Changing company culture is a grueling ordeal that still has a good chance to fail, but kudos on the effort.
07:23
it certainly is!
thanks Avner :)
Sounds like they are going to try and sabotage the meeting, but congrats
Once you learn Agile you never look back.
@HéctorÁlvarez oh, you bet. I'm not sure he'll even show up though
I heard people don't particularly dislike agile (except the usual rejection to learning some people have), but it's more about being an asset so the company is forced to pay more, if they are fired they'll be left with a mound of crap that nobody else knows about and they'll go into trouble. It's a measure to keep themselves valuable, while at the same time they'll be comfortably sitting and doing the comfortable stuff the rest of their lives.
@HéctorÁlvarez and that rings so true with our company unfortunately
If everyone knows what they are doing, then they will no longer be able to watch porn in their personal offices.
07:27
everyone's invaluable, because everyone has some kind of special project.
and unfortunately a boss who trusts that everyone does what is right and that everyone can handle themselves appropriately. which has been abused unfortunately (sleeping on the job)
I can vouch for this one, at my second job we were IT techies and had to fix stuff left and right. There was this man with so many cookies... the kind of cookie that sometimes has a bikini, sometimes doesn't.
One of the worst projects I was ever in was a reworking of an old project that had been in production since the 80's (written in pure C), and was slowly getting updated and modernized, bit by bit, in .NET. The project manager had been a developer on the original system, moved up in the company, and basically had most of the specifications, requirements and customer needs in her head, undocumented anywhere. That kept her valuable and irreplaceable. :(
Corporate culture there was so defensive and paranoid that she would actively give us wrong requirements, which we would develop, then after we finished a sprint she would say "yeah, ok, that's pretty good, but now let's develop what we actually need". Just to keep people on their toes.
4
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan that's scary.. And it's too bad that companies don't identify such persons earlier
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan My previous job was just that.
But VB6 instead of C
and there were no "reworks", just evolutive development on the same platform.
@Default the company, in this case, rewarded this behavior, or else she wouldn't have been promoted to where she was. It's not as if her managers were any better. :-\
07:31
hi . can anyone check here ?jsfiddle.net/xt7af61r
@karan I don't know, can I?
I want to check for second checkbox in same fucntion
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan wtf.. in what parallel dimension would this actually help the company?
@HéctorÁlvarez you can check
07:33
@Neil Well, there really isn't such a thing as "the company" from an objective view. You have people doing their thing. Whether the company benefits or not depends on who you ask.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan From a HR stand point it's really hard to make a decision with these people, hard to spot because they are also in places of power. Also if she had friends in high places there's really nothing to do, the company will leak money until this person either retires or gets a better job offer, which is going to be unlikely since those people are usually overpaid so they don't quit.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Well you implied that if she didn't do this, the company wouldn't have promoted her.. you can't say the "company" is objective and irrelevant and then say the company promoted her for her behavior
@HéctorÁlvarez Exactly.
@Neil Let me rephrase that, then. Her behavior was beneficient enough to her superiors for her to promote her and keep her in her position.
Either because they didn't know how much time was wasted because of her, or because they didn't care - as long as they were able to keep their superiors happy, she could do whatever she wanted.
I've been talking with my boss here about the behavior of one of my colleague and how he isn't cooperating. He says that he understands and knows about it, that it has been like this for many many years even before I started. Other people has even stopped talking to him about work related stuff.
But this person has so much knowledge and responsibility of our core systems that our boss is afraid of telling him, in case he would quit. Also, he works hard (or at least bills for it) so that it would also be a financial issue if he left.
I don't think "for the best of the company" is a metric that can be universally applied. "Stock prices up" (for a public company) is a metric for the good of stockholders, not necessarily "the company" in the sense of its products or employees.
07:37
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan sounds familiar :)
@Neil I think what he means is that her bad behavior was disguised by her friends as great, so their boss promoted her but he was oblivious to this.
Like when you're a kid and you come across the bullies, they smack you and everyone praises them.
oh, a small addition: my colleague also had our entire web api on his own computer. It wasn't versioned anywhere and he is still solely responsible for all updates and offers regarding it. it was just about 2 years ago that he was asked to check in the project in our vcs. When I check it now it has two commits. the initial one and one 22 march 2018 (with precompiled dlls).
07:53
Allowing it to reach this point is the culmination of years of bad management.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Yup that is correct
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan well ideally for the company, that would be the metric, if such a metric were easily determined
but office politics is like dumping glue into an otherwise well-oiled machine
hello
08:09
@Default looool
@Neil Ideally for the stockholders, that would be the metric. But, for instance, stockholders might be best served by "pumping and dumping" - stripping the company of its assets and shutting it down might be the best and fastest way of making money off of it. It's certainly not best for the employees, products or customers. Different people are out for different things.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan maybe for a failing company, but one which could excel, certainly letting it excel is still very much in the stsockholders best interest
again, that's not very reflective of real life, but we're talking about ideals afterall
mr5
mr5
08:31
Would you prefer your API to return an IEnumerable<T> or List<T> for every list of items?
Does it matter?
@mr5 List<T>
except if it's really about lazy evaluation
It will probably depend on what it's meant to return.
IList<T> if it's a list.
but if you can generate the whole list in one go, and pass it, List<T> is better
or IList<T>. Both have Count property
08:33
It might make more sense to return an Enumerable type if you're still going to transform it after retrieving it.
I agree with @ntohl. If you return an IEnumerable<T>, I'll always be suspicious about lazy evaluation. If you don't want me to be, return a list. Or an IReadOnlyList<T>, if I'm not supposed to modify it.
mr5
mr5
IEnumerable<T>
pros: no need to add .ToList() on the Mapping module
cons: the list is not really IEnumerable<T>

List<T>
cons: sometimes, you need to transform it to IEnumerable<T> or some list during mappings
pros: the list is actually a List<T>
@ntohl the list of items from the API is not actually lazily evaluated. We haven't invented that kind of technology yet
What does your API service do exactly?
You don't need to transform it to IEnumerable<T>. IList<T> is already an IEnumerable<T>.
mr5
mr5
@HéctorÁlvarez that's what of the pros or IEnumerable
08:35
!!Are the squirrels under control ?
@Hans1984 By all means
but it's not an existent pro
good,good
you did your Job for once
Is your API meant to retrieve data? Or does it simply do some hard work for you to actually start working?
@Hans1984 Of course!
mr5
mr5
08:36
@HéctorÁlvarez it returns a string of JSON format where it represents a list of items
Then what does it matter, if it's JSON you may parse as you wish, or am I wrong?
Return IList<T> as they said, it's real data.
mr5
mr5
@HéctorÁlvarez the API is the usual GET api/get_all_products
I don't know for sure but I believe Enumerable is only better if you want to do something along the lines of myApi.GetData().Select(....) if your API actually works with Enumerable, because you'll save yourself time transforming to list.
mr5
mr5
but then I have to convert it first into IEnumerable on the mapping module
JsonConvert does all the trick. It can convert "[]" into IEnumerable<T>
.ToList() shouldn't be a critical operation, IMO you can should return a list for that kind of service.
Is there any reason to do that?
Legit question, what does it matter if you return JSON?
08:41
@mr5 A JSON array is an IEnumerable<T>.
mr5
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan but IEnumerable<T> is supposed to be lazily evaluated. The API response is actually a MemoryStream where all the data is evaluated already
@mr5 Not supposed. Can be.
mr5
mr5
@HéctorÁlvarez that's not my question though. It matters for me because I'm kind of nitpicky when it comes to syntax
The answer from me would be "Whatever makes your API perform no unecessary operations".
mr5
mr5
As I said, in my Mapping module, I would sometimes need to convert the List<T> into IEnumerable<T> first
The usual process is something like this:
1. Get data from API
2. Data mapping
3. ViewModel property assignment
08:45
return enumerable;
return enumerable.ToList();
@mr5 I don't understand. List<T> list; list is IEnumerable<T>; // true. No conversion necessary.
Those two should produce the same result, unless I'm missing something.
Just don't transform it for the only purpose of returning it.
mr5
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yes. But that's not my point.
Well, anyway. I think you're all right.
I would sacrifice the additional .Select(e => e)
@mr5 Yes, because it does absolutely nothing.
You can simply return a List<T> in a method that returns IEnumerable<T>.
mr5
mr5
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan the method return type is actually my concern since that one goes into Mapping
08:51
public IEnumerable<T> Map(input) => return new List<T> {blah};
This will work fine.
Well, other than the blah.
Rob
Rob
As a rule of thumb... the return type should be as specific as possible. If the actual object you're returning is a List<int>, then your method should probably have that as your return type, rather than IEnumerable<int>
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Unless you do var blah = new T();
09:07
We have a task at hand, a report shows 2 fields have swapped positions, like this:
`Data A label: Data B | Data B label: Data A`

So we requested the person who screwed up the report to fix it. We are about to receive v5, I had to decline all previous changes because they introduced new bugs every time.
I don't know if I want to laugh or kill this person slowly.
09:29
@HéctorÁlvarez Seems like such a hard thing to screw up too
If you know you've got to swap Data B and Data A.. really how hard can it be?
They are really poor at developing, that's all I can say
They don't test, they want us to test for them.
Github Sponsors is interesting.
Effectively lets you turn your GitHub-based open source project into a Patreon.
So there are 3 cases here:
- Case A means a user is added.
- Case B means a user is removed.
- Case C means a user is removed and then added.

When Case A happens, Case B must have no data and viceversa. They didn't try any case scenario, and when we got the first commit nothing was working. Every small change they make we have to do the testing ourselves and tell them "you idiots forgot case B". When they fix case B they break case A again, and so forth.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Maybe this is what I needed! :O
09:35
@HéctorÁlvarez Then maybe the point is to describe it to this person in these terms
Say, you expect it to work in all three scenarios
At least you give him a blueprint of what to test
He should gather that on his own, but I suppose that's the point. This is the skill he must learn
he literally has a PDF and the requirements, it's the company that developed the product.
And if we're being honest, in my experience, most programmers wouldn't think to test the case where a user is removed and added
but you wouldn't catch errors which can only happen when both conditions are true due to conflicting changes
Well it's a main requirement for the document. I mean literally you have to pick one of those 3 choices before you start filling the form.
No no, it's a clear selection, it's a radiobutton with all 3 options.
!!meow
09:37
Next time he hands you the new report, you ask him if he tested for all three cases
@HéctorÁlvarez I'll admit that's putting him on the spot a bit, but when you're put on the spot and you lie, that's unforgivable in my humble opinion
BRB coffee time
mr5
mr5
How do you .Concat two list of the same T together?
.AddRange?
@mr5 Concat. Only with using System.Linq; on top.
You'll need the System.Linq using directive
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan this
mr5
mr5
09:44
My bad, those two list are not equal in <T>
the backend was updated without me knowing it
morning
10:00
morning
which is the right way to use in LINQ?
Where() after Last()
or Last() after Where()
Last() returns a single item.
sorry I meant only Last(predicate) in the second line
So you can't call Where() on it.
IEnumerable<T>.Last(...) returns a T.
there is an overload for it too
yeah
Last<TSource>(IEnumerable<TSource>, Func<TSource,Boolean>)
10:15
That still returns a single TSource.
This should do the filtering for me instead of Where
that was my question
Ah, so a question whether you should use Where(...).Last() or just .Last(...)?
They're mostly identical. Use whatever feels clearer and more readable to you.
Caveat: LINQ providers like EF should generate the same queries for both. Should being the operative word here.
thanks avner! :D
mr5
mr5
10:35
Suppose you encounter this boilerplate:
await ShowLoader(); // show stopper (UI)
await SomeLongRunningTask();
await HideLoader(); // show stopper (UI)
How would you design it elegantly?
I'm thinking I could use Task.ContinueWith here
10:50
I've just seen a bee
for the first time in aaaaaaaaaaaages
at least a year
@Neil They reuploaded the 5th deliverable twice because they forgot to add the actual code, and there were just 2 empty folders. It gets better by the minute
Best part is I already fixed it by modifying the report structure so it binds to the correct name (it's a CTRL+V problem)
Now I only have to wait for the deployment team to put my PDF on the development server, which shouldn't take more than 2 hours.
@CaptainSquirrel kill it!
WOT
Wasp's i understand
but not a bee!
kidding, that was supposed to be a psuedo-ironic introspection into humanity's tendencies in general
10:57
bees are the bees-knees
these lovely things
bees are about to extinct :(
Engrisch much?
very funny
my english is probably better than yours anyway
so you dont want to go there...
So fun fact
11:01
> very funny
when just in time debugger fires for internet explorer while debugging in vs2017
my entire system froze
like legitimately everything
i had to open task manager about 12 times just to end the iexplore.exe process
12 times lmao
i'd open task manager
Only one question remains: Why exactly are you using IE in 2019.
BECAUSE HECTOR
11:02
LOL xD
Strikethrough is ---like this---
do they have a virusscanner and Firewall atleast ?
fuck if i know
because ppl using IE in 2019 probably dont have those Things
xD
there's a bug on one of our public facing sites that means when you add an expense it doesn't show until you refresh
!!help quote
11:03
but only in ie
@HéctorÁlvarez quote: Manage and administer quotes.
Add a quote: `/quote add msgid ...quoteName`
Get a quote: `/quote get ...quoteName
List quotes: `/quote list [username]`
Get a random quote: `/quote random`
I feel so good I am slowly getting better in understanding c#
!!quote add 46300029 hector2
@HéctorÁlvarez mesa no understando, please give me a message id or url to remember
@HéctorÁlvarez I will cherish this memory for the rest of my life
!!quote get hector
11:04
Mar 7 '18 at 15:14, by Héctor Álvarez
Best retards
oh fuck
it just happened again
oh christ
i got it in time tho
@HéctorÁlvarez I will cherish this memory for the rest of my life
i know what to do now
11:04
!!quote get hector2
This is a problemo
@HéctorÁlvarez 404 quote not found
@HéctorÁlvarez I will cherish this memory for the rest of my life
!!quote get hector2
11:05
!!quote get hector2
2 mins ago, by Captain Squirrel
BECAUSE HECTOR
2 mins ago, by Captain Squirrel
BECAUSE HECTOR
so now the question is
how in the fuck do i turn off just in time debugging
It's a checkbox in VS preferences
11:05
nevermind
i foundit
fanx hect0r
No problemo
OK so my project manager just arrived, facepalmed, looked at me in the eye and said "I told you these guys had crap delivery quality control" and left.
lmao
so
I turned just in time off and some how it fired again
help
Maybe check the project properties, go to Debug, and make sure it's not forced to use a certain JIT option that overrides IDE behavior
The error message clearly says there's another JIT debugger in place.
11:09
ya
i see that
but that is dumb
OMG WHY SO PINKY FUCHSIA
It gave me iritis
hector hep
how 2 disable jit
Open your other Visual studio and disable it
fookin rip
I wonder if that's why its fubar
my vs2015 has been borked for 2 years
hm
Rule #1: don't trust Micro$oft
11:13
so, i disabled it in vs2015 and that also had the message...
Rule #2: If everything works, apply rule #1
OK now go back to your current VS and see if it's gone
its not :(
although the just in time shit doesn't show up any more
so there's that
Do you have any other programs used to debug apps launched from outside VS?
Right, so assuming JIT shit is what I think it is, you should be golden now
nope
yeah i think its fine now
yay, the problem that i saw is still a problem
if i open ie debugger and do this action, it works as intended
if i close the debugger, it doesnt
Do you have any sort of debug configuration?
something along the lines of #if DEBUG
11:23
nope
I think i know what the issue is
might be down to timing
nope ok
that's super duper wierd
the backend is returning the correct amount when im on chrome
but the incorrect amount when in ie
sooooo normal
IE for you
Yeah that falls within standard parameters
First link I got on Googolz about why you should stop using IE
I can't say much more, because I have to use IE myself.
!!tell HéctorÁlvarez quote get hector2
Does that work?
Not as intended >,<
11:35
@HéctorÁlvarez I'm genuinely shocked if Microsoft doesn't want people to use their browser
@Neil It's that bad indeed.
Edge now runs on chromium, next year it will become a swirling colored ball
@HéctorÁlvarez If UserAgent.Contains("IE") Redirect("https://mashable.com/article/microsoft-stop-using-internet-explorer-browser/?europe=true");
Well I just think they don't care about holding onto the market any longer
I have very much been advocating for dropping support for IE and forcing people to use chrome or firefox
but we are not allowed to drop support for it
I mean, after tomorrow none of this will be my problem anymore so
:D
though the release of Edge would seem contradictory to that scope
11:37
!!kieran2
Hm so
Somehow IE Doe
wait
IE has "completed" an ajax call without hitting the back
I know what this is
I remember the first problems I had with IE was that they didn't do the mouseenter and mouseleave events properly
you could "trick" the browser
$.ajaxSetup({ cache: false });
this is the solution to all my problems
Else
  rdcAOHJCDIT.SqlFixedAdd " AND 1 < 1"
11:38
made it a real pain because you were basically fixing their issue
Production code
	/*
	* Convert to the backwards date because datetimepicker is bad and the person who made it should feel bad.
	* TL;DR datetimepicker won't accept anything other than mm/dd/yyyy even though its been set to en-gb. Go figure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
	*/
I left that comment in our biggest project because i was fed up
//this is a mess
//actually its fine.
also that
we don't have many easter eggs in the code and it makes me sad
somewhere in our, now oldest, project, we have a function with a ridiculous name
and the content is even worse
but it was the only thing that worked to make an asp.net web-frigging-forms application be able to use async
12:04
function ridiculous() {
    // is even worse
}
x)
Wish I'd see that ridiculousness
IDK how it happened but I'm presented with VB again
At least not VB6
12:20
@CaptainSquirrel bad comment, reeeeeeeee
         AND AOHSJCDT.END_DAT>= :NEW.END_DAT
         AND AOHSJCDT.END_DAT<= :NEW.END_DAT
Call me crazy, but doesn't that force AND AOHSJCDT.END_DAT = :NEW.END_DAT?
That... doesn't really look like VB.
No, that's Oracle
This is VB:
That... looks kinda ugly.
44 mins ago, by Héctor Álvarez
Else
  rdcAOHJCDIT.SqlFixedAdd " AND 1 < 1"
Hacks on top of hacks.
IDK what I've done, was it when I was a kid and ripped a fly's wings? Seems like my destiny is VB or something.
12:25
In your job interview, did you ask whether you will be sent to work in the VB mines?
2
lol
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I explicitly said I didn't want to do VB
well maybe you have to say it more clearly next time
@HéctorÁlvarez Then put down your fut and just don't do it.
Talk to your boss say "Dis boi, dis the last time, not gonna touch vb"
12:45
I agree, don't compromise
Otherwise you will become that guy that deals with VB, and then it'll be too late to go back
Use the technologies you want to use throughout your career
Yeh if it was that simple.
I mean, I agree with you on that, it was pretty clear the day I quitted my previous job
But there's also the fear I'll be unemployed again
What should I do, talk to the boss and say "No VB", risk getting fired on the spot?
I'd rather do VB than starve tbh
Plus it took a fair amount of time to find a job that didn't pay minimum wage for filling up reports.
at my work vb.net is the main language

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