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02:00 - 14:0014:00 - 21:00

14:00
Hey guys, can anyone help me with review of a tech document that I created ?
Its a sort of technical requirement gathering, I will be grateful is someone can help me with its shallow review.
14:17
a little too time-intensive for me right now, @harrisunderwork.
Thanks Squiggle, but I promise it wont take more than 20 minutes, plus its not like a normal software spec, its something interesting related to brainstorming and how far can you think.
Only 20 minutes! Well, it's not like he should be working at his high-paid job right now!
Why don't you post it publicly and we can all critique it for fun
@RudiVisser Cool, I was actually expecting someone to bring that up, since its my first time here.
I've just rebooted (the last resort of the desperate), and edmgen still fails. That's all the ideas I had to try. It's got to be 5 PM by now, right? I'm ready to go home.
Hmm I think my computer's system time is broken, I couldn't have possibly run through every productive avenue of investigation in 90 minutes
14:23
When Google launched Gmail in 2004 it reimagined email with 3 distinctive features:
Virtually unlimited storage: Google gave away 1GB of free email storage with a pledge to increase it over time. To users of competing services that offered 4MB for free and 100MB for $50, this was essentially free unlimited storage.
Search and labels instead of folders: Gmail put search front-and-center in web-mail and got rid of the concept of filing email in folders. Users could apply labels to emails that helped with filtering but were encouraged to never delete emails and use search to find them.
Email threads: Google organized related emails from the same conversation thread into a collapsed stack of messages. Other email clients would simply show emails based on a tabular sort order (date, sender, subject, etc). Google simplified the UI by showing each thread of emails as one item
@Kevin do you have both the 32-bit and 64-bit libs installed? according to some reports there can be a conflict there, and you need to remove the irrelevant one...
@harrisunderwork stahp. Paste it in a gist or something. Is this coursework?
Part of, I have already answered all of them, but I would like to have a review.
difficult to review it when we don't know the criteria it's being marked against.
Yea, lets suppose this is feature to be built.
What are the upfront questions you will put before the development team before they start working.
Here are some of questions which I decided to ask them.
"Do you know .NET Core?"
14:26
Yes
"How much time will this take?"
pretty much the only question you'd care about, right?
"Do you accept thanks instead of money?"
Nopes
Time is not the constraint.
Right decisions are
The right decision depends entirely on the situation.
For example, I would ask this : How will be emails be stored geographically? Will centralized data center be preferred in favor of simplicity or nearest data center will be used for minimum latency?
Its google :)
14:28
I just noticed that the file I added to the GAC is Oracle.ManagedDataAccess, and the name in the machine.config is Oracle.ManagedDataAccess.Client. So maybe the two aren't even really related at all. I've been looking around for a Oracle.ManagedDataAccess.Client.dll to add to the GAC, but I don't see it among any of my project files or anything.
I dont think they deliver half baked products, plus, its an exercise to see how ahead can you think.
Totally imaginary situation.
@Squiggle Because I need it, when I don't want to have an extra submit button in the form. See: stackoverflow.com/questions/1904168/…
... I hate JS!
Who doesn't
JavaShit.
14:30
I don't hate JS; In fact, I love it more than I do C#.
Get out
^ Approved
@Squiggle I don't think so, but I'll keep version discrepancy as a potential problem source as I move forward.
I love you Roel
But
@MikeTheLiar :-(
14:31
@RoelvanUden :-(
I like the language that javascript could have been in an alternate universe where they made good design decisions
JavaScript has good design decisions. The language is fundamentally a good language, but it's prototype-based and not class-based as you're probably expecting. If you go in thinking it's like Java and C#, you're going to have a bad time.
user5500750
I love JavaScript. I just wanted to say.
All of my worst times with js do tend to revolve around "which of the four mutually exclusive ways to imitate classes shall I use this time?"
14:33
If you hate javascript and love c#, you basically love typescript.
@Kevin Perhaps you should just use class eh.
!!> Array(16).join( 'wat' - 1) + " Batman!";
@MikeTheLiar "NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN Batman!"
Is that one of those ECMAscript features that only work on Chrome and the secret browser being developed in an airtight chamber at CERN?
14:34
We've been over this way too many times. Use TypeScript instead of JavaScript fixes most of the issues you guys have with JavaScript. Just be sure to think in prototypes, rather than classes, and you're good to go.
Help me Obi wASM Kenobi, you're my only hope
@Kevin Just use babel
TypeScript is a wonderful language. Decorators are awesome.
Is that one of the javascript frameworks that will cease to be popular in fifteen minutes?
14:35
TypeScript is fit
Typescript <> Javascript fw.
@Kevin Babel is the de-facto JS-to-JS compiler that transpiles modern JS to ES5-compliant JS. Meaning you can use all the features of ES6, ES2017, and ES2018 today. Pretty much everyone in the JS world uses it. Or, they use TypeScript. Which also supports most of those features, including lambdas, async/await, decorators, etc.
Ok, that sounds cool.
I personally just use TypeScript. It's very good.
Is there a Python 2 -> Python 3 transpiler?
14:38
Typescript gained popularity only because of angular 2.
> compiler that transpiles
Also, @MikeTheLiar, gief RO back you little shit.
No it didn't
@MikeTheLiar Not that I'm aware of. Closest thing I can think of is the 2to3 tool, which is far from bulletproof
@RoelvanUden not until you admit that JS not having integers is an insane decision.
14:38
I am not even sure if it is used heavily other than with angular.
suddenly floating point math floating point math everywhere
@MikeTheLiar I'd have liked integers for sure.
user5500750
What do you think this site uses?
Thanks @KendallFrey
user5500750
14:39
Imagine how this site will work if there was no JavaScript
wasssup
Hah, that's so punny.
@RoelvanUden it is now your reponsibility to keep Doe and his border radius away from our border radiuses
14:40
I think we all prefer a world that has javascript, to a world that has no client-side scripting language at all. But consider a third possibility: a world that has a really good client-side scripting language.
One with integers, and blackjack, and hookers
Eh, good is relative. Most of you will like C#, because, well, this is a C# room. Someone well versed in Java can still make you consider you're truly missing out of some great features that Java has. We all know Java sucks though and fuck them, but yeah, no language is perfect.
Plain text websites for life.
Get rid of JS, CSS, and HTML.
Black text on white background is my a e s t h e t i c
@MikeTheLiar You'll love lynx.browser.org!
ASCII should be enough for anyone.
14:46
this new broken underline is so unnerving
user5500750
Developers that use Angular are usually not very good at JavaScript. You can a lot of amazing things with Vanilla JavaScript.
user5500750
If you're good at it.
I think you accidentally a word.
user5500750
It can go places where most languages won't go.
user5500750
It is the best scripting language.
14:57
"You can a lot of amazing things" is a valid sentence if you interpret it as "you put a lot of amazing things into cans". I don't know enough about js to disprove this: maybe there's a really good canning API I haven't heard of.
CaaS
canAllTheThings.js
You can probably can with one line of code if you use jquery
RCFaaS
I'm going to start a new project, canned cans.
Can a can canner can cans?
A can canner can can cans.
Do you can? Yes, we can.
I can haz canned cheezburgr?
15:00
Just so you know, you guys are incoherent assholes.
"You guys" meaning me?
Mmmmmmm, cheezburgr
@RoelvanUden hey, biologically speaking it's pretty difficult to enunciate when talking out of one's anus. Cut us some slack.
I'd like to ass you a question.
15:19
<blows raspberry at Mike>
s/raspberry at//
o_o no.
...cans?
Shiny cans
But can Cannes can cans, and can Mikes cans can Cannes?
yes, and no.
Every time I come back from lunch or from a meeting, I check into the room here. Look around without context, say "nope", and go away again.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan coincides with when the Americans wake up, right?
@Squiggle Nah, all you Europeans are bad enough on your own.
15:29
I'll take that as a compliment.
theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/05/… Microsoft technology never has this problem.
> Despite warnings from a building inspector that people would not be able to tell where the door ends and the wall begins, at least three Apple employees walked or ran into the ultra-transparent glass hard enough to require emergency medical treatment during the first month of occupation
Hah. Admittedly, I walked into a piece of glass at our office too.
Similarly, the door hole and glass window looks EXACTLY the same.
uhh. I would be a perfect pantomime there..
You use JS by choice that's expected
Jezus christ man
@RudiVisser is this really the hill you want to die on?
I'm a proud JS user, too.
15:42
guys do you have any specific tool to debug web services?
what sort of web services?
@HéctorÁlvarez Visual Studio
we don't have a PRE environment in a client, and my WebAPI that builds a CSV out of some query is returning weird results
@Squiggle It's alright, we support you in your time of need
IDK why we don't have a Pre-production environment, but that's how it is
15:44
@HéctorÁlvarez I'm still not sure which aspect of the WebAPI do you want to debug...
and why Visual Studio's debugger is insufficient
I build a CSV from data and return the file, it works in my testing environment but doesn't work in production
which is pre-production basically, but we aren't allowed to install tools
like a Visual Studio
step 1: Figure out what is different between the environments, and don't do that.
Either: Replicate Prod locally in a VM or whatever
Or: Convince them to let you install Remote Debugger
drop the pre-production environment
there is no pre-production environment
15:46
or, dont write environment specific code
> which is pre-production
yeah production is pre-production
Everything I changed in our code today and tomorrow was useless because product management doesn't know what they want. Time to go home.
Bye.
it's a HDD without RAID 1 on a production server running WS2003
@Squirrelkiller Not a wasted day, then. At least you now know what management don't want.
(without SP2)
OMG there's a new squirrel
15:51
WS2003? O_o
they reproduce faster than a .wav sound file
@Squiggle i can list a million things my manager doesnt want
im not sure if that makes him happy though
@Squiggle Unfortunetely I'll only know when the both of them talked to each other. Just sent an email making them talk to each other. Gonna see tomorrow whats what.
FWIW, Windows Server 2003 has been unsupported for almost 3 years.
@Wietlol what, you listing what he doesn't want? Unlikely.
15:52
ffs guys the squirrel meme is dead
What meme
I'm a meme?
@HéctorÁlvarez We can't, and nobody else can, support that
me me
Anyway I'm home now bye
let's go, I filled the service with logs, logged half the instructions, all the exceptions... gonna have fun.
15:59
If your service is filled with logs, consult with your local lumberjack.
@MikeTheLiar i dont know if our local lumberjack can deal with the amount of logs we have
or their size
If I have a list of names with numbers at the end (John1, John2, John3,...John55) and I want to get the next name in sequence, is there a faster/better way than this: gist.github.com/ttrudeau/fae645c0e6a7a847b21aec9f57769ac0
What else have you tried?
Stripping alnum and parsing the int then getting the biggest?
Regexing everything like a beautiful mess?
Natural sorting and pulling out the last and only operating from there?
I was thinking about Regex, but haven't tried it
16:08
Is the sequence always going to be in order?
Is the name always going to be the same?
No, the sequence won't be in order, but the name will always be the same
And define "faster/better"
str.Replace(name, "")
str.Substring(name.Length)
Fasted code to write? Fasted code to understand? Fastest to execute?
Faster as in execute faster as I have to do this often
16:11
do { name = origName + Random.Next(1, 99999999); } while(list.contains(name));
That's way more fun
@Hpjchobbes don't muck about searching the list then, just figure out what the highest value is once and track it as you generate more
gordianKnot.Slice();
@MikeTheLiar Like create a dictionary of the names and the highest value?
Also while(true) loops make me feel icky
@Hpjchobbes sure, that's one way to do it
Span<T>
This is just an obfuscated for loop, though.
Span<K>
16:23
ello
16:36
Question...
If there are two threads that require an exclusive lock on a particular function, is there a way to do that without having to use the "lock" keyword, or do you have to just wrap that function manually with a lock?
@Nathvi What do you mean by a lock on a function?
Threads T1 and T2 make a function call to F1. In order to avoid race conditions, F1 needs to be locked, meaning the entire function needs to be wrapped in a lock. Just wondering if there was a way to write a lock wrapper for functions in general rather than having to use lock(){...} around the body of F1
Basically, the critical code that needs to be locked is the entire function
I'm sure you could write a wrapper somehow, but it's not useful enough to want to
"Use the targeting computer, Luke. Advanced weaponry designed to hit very small targets..."
- Oobie Doobie Benoobie, Thumb Wars
I'm not sure why you must lock on a specific object. Why can't the runtime just know that the critical section is done executing and give control to the calling thread that is next in line?
^ unrelated question
16:43
ask Eric Lippert.
Because 99% of the time the lock is scoped to something other than the entire process
@KendallFrey, can you give an example of what you mean by that?
normally it doesn't matter if you run the same locked code more than once on different objects
the threadsafe bit only applies to instance members
To update a collection, you only need to lock access to that collection, for example
Like if I had two threads that added keys to a dictionary, the section of code that tries to add the kvp to the shared dictionary needs to be locked
Or just use a threadsafe collection
I guess I'm still not understanding why the code couldn't look like this:

lock
{
/// Try to add KVPs
}
not sure what's unclear with
8 mins ago, by Kendall Frey
To update a collection, you only need to lock access to that collection, for example
you're not locking code, you're locking on shared mutable state
16:56
@milleniumbug, I'm just wondering if it's possible for the compiler to figure that out by the calling code within the lock. For example, if withing the critical section I'm mutating properties x y and z, could the runtime just figure out to lock those things for me?
Maybe there could be two ways of using the lock statement. One where you explicitly say what resources you need to lock are, and the other one infers it.
Maybe that's not possible, or would only apply to a very small number of cases
@Nathvi generally maybe this could work with a higher-level primitive, but not with locks
the problem is that you can't be sure if changing the property x doesn't influence how the value of the property w would be interpreted (and that property wasn't touched by the critical section)
@Nathvi no, that's not how locks work. they don't restrict access to data, they synchronize code
17:13
@KendallFrey, it's a way to indicate that only a given thread can execute the critical section, one at a time, correct?
pretty much, yeah
once thread A is done executing the critical section, it hands off control to some other thread via the os making that decision
ok, so then why do you need to have an object to lock on? If the only purpose of the lock keyword is to indicate that thread 1 must finish exucting the critical section, what information does the object it "locks" on provide?
it represents the resource/scope being locked
if there was no scope, it would lock access to all threads calling all objects across the whole program
I guess my question is, why can't it infer the scope via the code in the critical section?
It could theoretically just use this
but that might not be very useful
17:22
because it would lock all members of the current instance?
no, that's not what a lock does
"lock all members" means something quite different outside of programming.
It just may not be useful to assume the lock refers to the current object
There are plenty of cases where you need to lock something more specific
fck... Not sure why this is so hard to understand
There's a pretty decent chance this comes down to "We could do it, but every language/compiler feature we add costs time, and we can't just do everything."
17:26
^ not really worth it
since you're using locks in the first place, it is assumed you know what you're doing
yeah they are a pretty low-level construct
if you want easy concurrency pick immutable collections, concurrent collections, tasks, task completion sources, threadpools and so on
and leave the gritty details to the implementors of these abstractions
18:07
Okay it might be due to long hours in front of my VS
but I got the following error
System.Number.StringToNumber(String str, NumberStyles options, NumberBuffer& number, NumberFormatInfo info, Boolean parseDecimal)
I press CTRL SHIFT F and enter StringToNumber
according to VS that crap doesn't exist in the whole solution
might be because the CLR call differs from the code?
18:30
StringToNumber
that crap doesn't exist in my whole solution, according to the find and replace view
user5500750
18:50
How can I rewrite this regular expression advert_id=[A-Z0-9]{3,}& such that it matches the number 9502096 in detail.pl?advert_id=9502096&search_id=625986814&city_id=
user5500750
Instead of returning advert_id=9502096& it returns just the number.
user5500750
Got it; advert_id=([A-Z0-9]{3,})&
@HéctorÁlvarez this is not an error, it's a method signature
@HéctorÁlvarez because it's System.Net code. It's probably called by something that's called by something that's called by something that's in your code
Probably TryParse or Parse
user5500750
@HectorAlvarez Why don't you use double.TryParse(str, NumberStyles.Currency, new CultureInfo("en-US"), out number)
user5500750
Something like that using the right number type.
18:57
I'm sure he already is.
Without an MCVE we'll never know.
19:31
Ok, I can talk to my database if I manually call .open() on an OracleConnection object. That at least proves that it exists. So it's the EF wizard that's crazy, not me.
Well let's not get hasty here
We're reaching the point where I could legitimately write my own ORM in less time than it would take to troubleshoot this
Like, that's not a subtle jab at my displeasure for the .NET ecosystem, I'm really considering just doing it myself
Not that hard
Guys, if I could take a moment from you, take a look :) thanks a lot
0
Q: Building my web api from asp.net mvc used as backend for mobile

Questions I've started working on building an api for my web app using some backend code used for some mobile app, so far I've been able to this... So, this is the UserBusinessObject from which I call functions to my UserController... For example, to get all users, I call this function in UserBusinessObj...

The .NET ecosystem isn't your problem. Your problem is attempting to integrate Oracle with the .NET ecosystem. That union is unholy and the difficulties you are facing are the universe trying to stop you.
19:35
This isn't the first abomination I've birthed and it won't be the last
lol
@Kevin alright there Melisandre
@Questions, wtf
You need to clarify what your question is. Too much noise.
But yeah if I'm ever in the market for a new job and my choices are ".NET, no Oracle" and "Oracle, no .NET" then it's not even really a choice is it
Is .Net and Oracle really that different?
19:39
I don't know how up to date this is but download.oracle.com/oll/obe/EntityFrameworkOBE/…
Ugh I forgot how much I hate the Oracle documentation
@Questions, your question isn't very clear. I would down vote it if I could.
The second one I followed along with until the EF wizard just straight up stopped working. The first one... I'm not sure I've seen it before. For whatever reason every Oracle page has like three different versions and they're all styled differently so I can't tell at a glance whether I've looked at something or not
Hmm, nope, the first page is a non-starter since it requires me to use the "ADO.NET Entity Data Model" wizard which is exactly the thing that's been crashing on me for 72 hours
TIL Nathvi doesn't have enough rep to downvote.
He's got a gold badge though, doesn't that mean something? :(
lol
No, just enough to be annoying
19:50
I'm sorry, what is wrong with my question? I've given an example, already done get, add and delete method, but update is bothering me, working on a crud app, using angular as frontend, backend is written in asp.net mvc but for mobile, currently I'm writing my api using some of those written functionalities since the app will get web version also, If I'm too boring or something, guys I'm sorry, I'll leave :)
The "M" part of MVC isn't really respected
But that being said I can sympathize
It's hard to ask a question if you're not even sure what question to ask
Looking at my early questions from when I just started programming I'm like "what the hell was I on about because this question is nonsensical"
All of my questions are horrible because if I can construct an MCVE for it, then I understand the problem well enough to fix it myself
@Questions, What is your question?
Only questions where I don't know what questions to ask, and questions of the form "why is Oracle so lame", are the ones that get through that net and pass into public awareness
@Questions, can you be more specific about what is bothering you?
19:56
I have one question that I could reproduce in a MCVE but that's because I was confused about the results of the benchmarking. Another one was a bug in a third party library. The rest of them are garbage.
Oh, and a self-answered question about an undocumented Python 2/3 thing.
And a CSS question where the answer basically boils down to "I don't know why your example doesn't work but here's an alternative way to do it that does work"
> Still not sure though why this works, while the original doesn't. Sorry.
"Your code should work, but oh well, have a workaround" is nice and vindicating
@Nathvi, I don't know how to call part of the function, // Update user in database
UserRepository.UpdateUser(userToUpdate); because I'm still learning asp.net and c#, and this update method is much complicated than the other ones so I'm not sure how my functin in UserController will look like
But I'm sensing you are trolling me? Don't do that to me mate, I'm an intern and really struggling to get this done :/
@Questions, don't be so dramatic. I'm trying to help you not get down voted
"but update is bothering me..." Needs to be clarified up front. Don't make people guess what this means.
sorry
update request I meant
Go ahead and clarify that in your question.
20:04
done :)
"already done add, get and delete," should probably be something like "I have already implemented add, get, and delete functions"
why are you harrasing me?
I'm trying to help you rephrase your question to make it clear.
You probably shouldn't be asking for help if you don't want it and are going to get defensive.
The biggest reason for downvotes on the site is a communication breakdown between the asker and the reader. If you haven't asked yourself "do I really need to explain things this thoroughly?" five times, you haven't explained yourself thoroughly enough
Yes, some people downvote if you say "done" instead of "implemented". There are a lot of curmudgeons out there.
I don't think anyone downvotes simply because you said done and not implemented.
20:12
If I had a little more curmudgeonliness, I might go and downvote some random person just to prove you wrong ;-)
Ok, maybe there aren't as many misanthropes as I imagine there are on the site. But at least in my case, imagining those misanthropes combing over my every word makes me more likely to write questions as legibly as I can
This is the corollary to "Always code as if the person who ends up maintaining your code is a violent psychopath who knows where you live"
I put a whole lot of time into making my code clean and clear, I don't really care about things like done or implemented, It's so obvious...
@Questions, I tried to answer your question
@Questions There isn't even a question. Ironically.
There are standards for what a reasonable person would consider clean and clear, And you have met those. Then there are standards for clean and clear as considered by a person that takes visceral joy in downvoting others because they're not clean and clear enough, which is as close to perfection as makes no difference
@Kevin most of them hang out in the chat rooms
20:23
lol
Yep I've made frenemies with at least four of them over the years
@KendallFrey well, "question" is more often reffered to advice, guidance, or direction, this, If I asked question how, I would be asking of you to do all my code, that's not fair...
@Questions You just explained why your "question" isn't a good one
Stack Overflow isn't really for general stuffz
@KendallFrey cheers
20:26
Questions need to be focused. Otherwise you'll get downvoted.
Can we place panini in port 8080?
When inserting panini it's best to be safe. Stick to 443.
you shouldn't use port 8080
When I ping my panini I get response HTTP 418, please advise
lol
20:41
@Kevin clearly it's lunchtime
Question closed as "can't be replicated". I ate the panini.
@Kevin ah, there's your problem. You should be pinging your scone.
C:\Users\Kendall>ping scone
Ping request could not find host scone. Please check the name and try again.
quick fix echo "127.0.0.1 scone" >> C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts
:P
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