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user1618236
00:09
My apologies if this isn't the correct place to ask this question (wasn't sure it warranted a meta question). I just posted a question and self answered it, though I don't think my current title really covers what the question is, could a kind soul with a couple minutes to spare have a quick look? stackoverflow.com/questions/27557846/…
00:24
sweeet
hello, anyone have experience with azure powershell cmdlets?
00:44
not I
My overkill answer of the day: stackoverflow.com/a/27558192/1026459
 
4 hours later…
04:31
@TravisJ : how did you manage to put that Run Code Snippet button out there ...
wait, this is so stupid. You can't send an email directly from a Windows Store app
what ?
04:59
Bhuvin - he added an HTMl Header to the code
 
3 hours later…
07:39
Morning all
 
3 hours later…
10:27
hey...
anu body
@RoelvanUden Ever used log4net?
10:45
hi everyone
can I ask for a book recommendation here?
What is the best book to read if I need to design the database for a full fledged survey application, like surveymonkey.com / qualtrics.com in ASP.NET?
What database design knowledge do you have?
@Sippy Not really, no.
@RoelvanUden Have you ever implemented user action logging?
I've worked with SQL Server / MySQL
@Sunny That wasn't my question :)
10:46
@Sippy Sure.
@RoelvanUden Did you implement it yourself or did you use a framework for it?
/lib
@Sippy: can you please elaborate
@Sippy Internal company one. Acts a lot like Log4Net, but isn't that.
@RoelvanUden Ah ok
@Sippy sorry, I didn't get it...
10:50
@Sunny I wasn't asking what experience you had with what types of servers
I was asking how much you know about designing data structures for databases.
@Sippy I prefer using Code First approach with EntityFramework
Still not what I'm talking about.
Less about how, more about what.
@Sippy Domain Driven approach?
I'm asking how much you know about designing, not building.
11:06
Urgh, how much do you know about designing the database, normalization, logical thinking, triggers, constraints, foreign keys, primary keys, identities, unique identifiers, etc, etc. It's painful to watch this convo.
@RoelvanUden It's painful having it ..
yesterday, by Sippy
o/
@RoelvanUden: thanks for clarification, yes, I know these terms very well
Why did anyone star that
Lol
sorry for I couldn't catch what exactly do you mean in the meantime
If you have no problem with those you can design whatever you want. Why a book?
11:10
I mean if there are any best practices for Survey Application Database design... then why to start from scratch... just a thought
@Sippy: What about log4net?
tldr
@Sunny Design is driven by your requirements. Not a common base. Ever.
what topics should a senior C# developer need to master before becoming senior ?
@scheien I'm using it to log user actions
@CustomizedName Everything.
11:12
So like ..
logger.Info(User.Identity.Name + " did this shit over here");
@RoelvanUden there's a question on SO about it and i can't find it
247
Q: Questions every good .NET developer should be able to answer?

splattneMy company is about to hire .NET developers. We work on a variety of .NET platforms: ASP.NET, Compact Framework, Windowsforms, Web Services. I'd like to compile a list/catalog of good questions, a kind of minimum standard to see if the applicants are experienced. So, my question is: What questio...

@RoelvanUden thanks, I realize that, but if you have any recommendation for such a book, please let me know.
@Sippy: yep, what about it?
11:14
@Rovak A lot of that is utter crap imho. Why would I have to be able to code a binary tree? If I need one, I'll look at how it works in pseudo and build it. I dont have to remember random crap to be a good dev.
it's like regex, every time you need it (like once every 5 years) then you relearn it.
(Regex) Write a regular expression which removes all tags from a block of HTML. - I SMELL TROUBLEBlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft Jun 18 '10 at 20:42
I was asked a bunch of those fucking awful questions for an interview which I didn't pass
I use most of the shit they asked about regularly but I don't actually know the names of a lot of it lol
And also, if you can teach someone how to do something in a day, why bother asking about it in an interview?
Similarly to a lot of those patterns, you don't need them. It's only used for overly complex legacy crap. If you just think about what you're doing, you barely ever need those patterns because you'll get to the same principles anyway. KISS and DRY are the only principles worth mentioning probably.
If you want contractors, ask the questions, if you want employees, ask them, and if they get them wrong, give them the opportunity to learn
11:23
I like the answer "What is .NET?"
@Rovak thank you
@Sippy when i interview people then i try to discover what their passion is, and how much they want to learn, and what their side projects are
@Sippy i had java programmers who became better C# programmers then the people who started as C# programmers
Hmm, why do Java questions dominate SO
the point I was making is that you can get shitlord programmers who know every keyword you throw at them in an interview
But if you ask them to build something they will present you with a turd
exactly
11:25
You need passion for programming
you don't, but it really shows in the work they deliver
it does
I don't have passion for programming
I don't think you need that.
You need passion for 'not being bad at stuff' to be good at programming
There's always a better way to do something.
Ignore me :)
@CustomizedName Depending on your context, yeah?
11:30
@Sippy Always? No way. There is no better way than mine!
@RoelvanUden Oh yeah duh
(Too much arrogance there?)
no
That's how programmers should be :D
If you don't have confidence in your solution how the fuck can you sell it?! xD
And the thing with that 'not being bad at stuff' will even lead you into other languages, assuming your workload is varied enough.
@Sippy: It's not like you automatically are bad if you do not have passion :)
@scheien Not what I meant
I do programming as a job because I can, not because I have passion for it. I can't be comfortable with being bad at stuff, therefore I try to improve, and that serves pretty much the same effect as a passion for programming would.
11:33
Every developer think they are the greatest dev on earth
:p
Except I can use my OCD in a lot of other aspects too xD
:p
But what did you want to know about log4net?
@scheien Whether it was the right thing to use for user action logging
I've just tested it and it appears to work nicely, though.
It works like a charm
You can also define a number of entries before it flushes to db
iirc
there is no db for this project unfortunately.
So they will have to deal with losing information.
11:40
Think it's the same for fileappender
attribute is called bufferSize
and it's not for fileappender :/
I'm using RollingFileAppender
you can use BufferingForwardingAppender and link that to rollingfileappender
to be able to use buffersize
dunno how it is performance wise though
never used it :)
That's just for DB stuff though right?
<appender name="BufferingForwardingAppender" type="log4net.Appender.BufferingForwardingAppender">
<bufferSize value="512" />
<appender-ref ref="RollingLogFileAppender" />
</appender>
e.g.
but just roll with what you have, and take action if the performance drops
Aye
It should be fine I'm only using 15 logs and they will only be 20mb each
If the filesystem can't handle that
I quit
11:46
filesystem handles that, but read/write to filesystem is kind of slow if you don't have some high performance disks :>
@scheien Not my problem lol
Either way the app won't be used by more than like 3 people concurrently so
It's not going to hurt.
Every little thing is gonna be alright.
12:05
Alan!
Davies!
Why do you know who Alan Davies is ..
cuz I love british TV
Ah.
and QI especially
12:06
Alan Davies is a wonderful human being. :D
QI was better when he was dumber
He's a lot more intelligent now lol
Probably from being on QI ..
David Mitchell is a wonderfuller human being
12:20
@KendallFrey Not so keen anymore.
Who is there that's keener than they used to be?
Jon Richardson is funny
Jimmy Carr is a dbag
Really really hate him
Jimmy Carr is amazing
his jokes are A+
12:22
Saw him live, heckled, got applauded
brave man
He had no response lol
oh damn
what did you say?
He said "Reasons why your wife has refused to have sex with you"
And I shouted "Because I'm filling out my tax return"
12:23
rekt
that's one thing that haunts him
My impression of him was that he believes everyone he performs for are actually just peasants
And he's some sort of charitable samaritan for allowing people to laugh
Ed Byrne I used to think was funny till I saw him live
Then I realised all the material he uses on TV comes from his tour
So much recycling lolol
bits of it were good though
Lee Mack is fantastic
Never been able to fault him, he's fantastic everywhere lol
WILTY is a shitty show with great content
Yep
Very much so
Lee and David are both insane
12:26
Hahaa
Did you ever watch Peep Show?
That was insane.
One of David Mitchell's creations
Mental, inane scenes flying all over the place.
stop copying links from google search
I did swear at it but SO stopped me
oh, that mitchell and webb look
crazy brain candy
12:29
Yeah lol
Are they the same show?
idk, that bmx dude comes from it
They worked together on both shows as far as I can tell
Both of them are similarly inane
But Peep Show actually has a storyline
booo nobody like storylines
Haha
That's numberwang!
Let's rotate the board!
That's Wangernumb!
12:31
xD
Apparently i'm the numberwang.
Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse are an amazing duo too
Haha, I just learned that game has a rotate the board
i never played it that far before
@KendallFrey Lol
Have you seen "The Fast Show"?
nope
man, that 2048 is funny
12:41
@KendallFrey You really need to watch it lol
It's probably the best comedy that ever aired on British TV
there's like a 5% chance stuff merges without matching, so if you push it enough times, it'll go
Harry Enfield's Television Programme
Is also gold
 
2 hours later…
15:00
Ηαρργ Γτιδαγ Βιτςηες
few more shopping days
what's shopping
@KendallFrey īס ﻷO∩ ┬¤¤
@SebastianL hurr?
@KendallFrey damn typo in arial it worked ^^
15:08
when you go to amazon and order something have them wrap it and ship it to some person you hardly talk to but are in some way distantly related to
and tehn?
you sign the card - I have helped capitalism one more time this year
15:26
whats today @Steve ?
When the Toronto Maple Leafs fail, they fail hard. Two games ago, they crushed the best team in the league 6-2. Last game, they fell to the worst team in the league 4-1.
27 mins ago, by Kendall Frey
Ηαρργ Γτιδαγ Βιτςηες
nope
Mornin all
You have a yellow shirt, faker
If I said I wanted to use MAF, how many here would tell me I'm going down the wrong path?
My main goal is to be able to load up an assembly and then unload it, update it, and reload it, all without shutting down the host.
15:30
You're not talking about MEF, are you?
nope, MAF
Add-in framework
no idea what that is
assembly as in DLL?
but if there's a good reason to use MEF instead, if that would even work, I'm open to the idea.
@NETscape Yep
thats possible?
15:31
With MAF, ya
To be able to unload assemblies, you need a separate AppDomain
Yep, or process even
well, that is a separate appdomain
> There is no way to unload an individual assembly without unloading all of the application domains that contain it.
lol, indeed it is
15:32
ahhh
Ya, been through that befor
before*
Ready to go down this rabbit hole?
@BrandenBoucher Shadow copies work as well. It will pollute your process though
@RoelvanUden I have NO knowledge of Shadow copies!
wow
What do you mean it will pollute my process?
@BrandenBoucher It's the name that ASP.NET uses for the technology which allow you to replace bin files. Basically, in ASP.NET, it creates a copy of the bin and loads that up. Once a change is detected to the original, the worker will be teared down and a new one comes up with a new copy.
hmmm. All within the same AppDomain?
15:36
@BrandenBoucher In your case you could just dispose of the interfaces you instantiated and load up the new ones. The old assembly is still in memory, hence the pollution. Otherwise you'd need worker processes/domains, too.
@RoelvanUden That "memory leak" is what I thought you might be referring to
It
It's strange. It seems like as old as the Managed Add-in Framework is, there's not a lot of people that know about it.
So does MEF have the ability to load Assemblies into separate AppDomains or Processes?
@BrandenBoucher that's cause everyone now knows cloud... no need to learn anything else apparently
lol
I guess not surprisingly, we have touched on that.
its just a matter of finding a SME and picking his brain. I learned COM the hard way... don't no body like COM
15:51
Ya, kinda feel the same about the windows API
22 hours ago, by Steve
user image
Lol
That is a nice sign.
ASP.NET

What is a PostBack?
"Something that shouldn't exist anymore."
Win API is fun
@NETscape you're twisted
16:00
i'm intrigued by it, because here we are having troubles time to time writing C#, and then there is the Win API developers who wrote a gigantic, useful API for an entire OS.
Have a good christmas dudes :D
@BrandenBoucher it's true
though the Linux API is more fun
16:03
@KendallFrey, you mean it's true that NETscape is twisted?
lol
@BrandenBoucher nope nope nope
aaah
@NETscape, what do you mean?
I mean I've been to the link but not sure what comment you're responding to
were you asking if MEF makes it easier?
Well, not easier, more about if it was possible in MEF
anything .NET can load assemblies into separate appdomains, if i'm reading this correectly
or references System.dll (using System)
16:12
I agree that it's even pretty simple and straight forward to just do it yourself
Heeeeeyyyyyy
But there seems to be some nuances that affect how other thing run in that AppDomain
@JLott (in Arabic accent) ey baby. get in sports car!
!!youtube get in sports car
@KendallFrey :P
How have you all been?
16:15
@BrandenBoucher i'd just say make sure you know App domains inside and out
we just use COM for our plugins
@JLott bored, mostly
@NETscape AHHHHH
Our networking team is trying to force development to develop off of VMs on our crappy servers...
I am upset about it
@KendallFrey wut
AHHHHHHHHHHH
yeah, maintaining 150 COM projects is not usually fun
a bug in one means theres a bug in ~ 10 other projects
16:23
lol
17:18
Question for Model View Controller.
Not documenting code, especially if it is a distributed library is a bad practice.
Is it possible, to have a Partial View an ActionResult from a different controller?
Sure - should be able to
How do you do that?
I have a Partial View, that is rendered. I call Post in the Controller and want it to go to another page, but if it fails load the rendered view with an exception that appears.
ahh in the controller not in the view
17:24
@juanvan Well, I want it to have that partial view actually load a different state for instance:

@if(TempData["UI_Success"] != null) { }

For example.
user862319
so... anyone going to see the 3rd hobbit film?
Return View("Controller/View", Model)
@juanvan What do you mean?
That is what you would use for the return for that partial view - but how to do in a new state humm
An example in controller:
        [HttpGet]
        public ActionResult GetCustomerById(string account)
        {
            int id;
            if(int.TryParse(account, out id))
            {
                Searchable find = new Searchable(ConfigurationManager.ConnectionStrings["BCCP"].ConnectionString);
                if(find.ValidateAccount(id))
                {
                    (new Storage()).SessionAdd("Account", id.ToString());
                    return View("Invoice");
                }
            }

            return WithException(this.RedirectToAction("Index"), "Unable to locate the following Cus
17:30
you want to return it as a partial?
@bob only on Tuesdays - they do 5$ movies at the local place
@juanvan Well, here is the problem.
I have the initial View Page. When they select a link on that page it loads a popup. Which I'm loading the popup by having it statically hiding / showing div elements.
Musk, about a year ago: "I'd definitely build this, but I'm too busy designing space rockets and sports cars; someone else can do it"
So, I have a question I
17:35
Then when your on that popup, you hit the button it process. Then it loads another popup, based on the completion of the event of the popup. Which I need to display.
'm not quite sure belongs on the mains ite
*main site
@Greg you want to return that view to the popup
Is there a dictionary which contains the formal definitions of various terms?
How do you maintain or improve undocumented code
I have not tried that yet
17:38
Hi guys
@moo
can someone explain difference between keyvaluepair and dictionnary
arent they both generics
@MoonOwlPrince programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/155488/… might be useful for you
A keyvaluepair is an element of dictionary
A dictionary can be viewed as a list of keyvaluepairs where each key is unique
Anyone offer me some help on running async tasks
17:40
@juanvan Well, this part within the view yes.
@MoonOwlPrince if I need only one element, do I need dictionary
@juanvan You helped me yesterday if you remember, I managed to get msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj155756.aspx working as a console app.
It depends on the context though the answer should be no
@Greg I have not tried that yet - not going to be much more help on it - maybe try to return a simple partialView first
Can I call in a similar usage in a class library ?
17:42
for the async await
Yes
This example, was a windows application msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj155756.aspx
ya we could have put those methods into a new class/namespace and used them the same way
I tried with no success
;(
It was dropping out on the same line
Task<int> firstFinishedTask = await Task.WhenAny(downloadTasks);
And I don;t know why
This is the class i have
    public class Connector
    {
        public string TestMsg { get; set; }

        CancellationTokenSource cts;

        public async void SomeMethod()
        {
            cts = new CancellationTokenSource();

            try
            {
                await AccessTheWebAsync(cts.Token);
                TestMsg += "\r\nDownloads complete.";
            }
            catch (OperationCanceledException)
            {
                TestMsg += "\r\nDownloads canceled.\r\n";
            }
            catch (Exception)
You try it
i pulled out the setup stuff and just placed it into a new class - made a new obj and called the same method as last time
@juanvan would it matter that my class in in a class library (dll)
17:48
nope I put it it another class and it worked ok
let me try your code
I basically have a console app
and a class DLL which has the connector class in
@juanvan Hm, yeah. Being a little unique with architecture.
Yes you are - but that makes it Unique!
@Tommo1977 mine worked ok with our code - what is in the main?
Just
            Connector connector = new Connector();
            connector.SomeMethod();
ya that is all I have in mine as well
17:53
I dont know
What could it be
set a breakpoint on the failing line execute it and see what response you get back on the first URL response
When storing session, does it makes sense to convert value first?
@juanvan I dont get any response the program just ends
I tried putting a try catch too
nothing
what is the Count on downloadTasks when its running
afk grabbing soup
7
dont worry i copied your class and it works
back soon
@juanvan I found the problem, because I instead of doing Console.Write I was updating a class member
why would that case a problem ?
18:10
i thought that was the problem too - but was not -
was there anywhere in the main you were calling that prop?
@Tommo1977
Learning to use Yeild for the first time and I think im doing it worng. The documentation says it goes back to the last time the yeild was returned on the next iteration. How can I just get it to update my collection and then start at the top of the loop again?
yield is iteration like a foreach - forward only read only (I think)
18:27
@VictorioBerra You mean continue;?
Think of yield as adding an item to the collection that is returned. That's not how it works, but you can think of it that way.
okay I see.
@KendallFrey So this would work instead pastie.org/private/hvfw6fea8w8t8s7jcw2ba
18:50
@VictorioBerra looks about right
The lack of documentation is killing me!
!!What is worse than the lack of documentation?
@MoonOwlPrince I expect so
Yep, probably

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