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19:05
sweet jesus, I found a GOTO nest
O.O
in SQL O_O
Dear mother of god. What is this...
Is there a css3 selector to select visible elements?
Why, do you want to style them to be invisible?
19:11
No, I have an nth-child definition that I wish would only work for visible elements
Can you use jQuery?
Not for this
weak
This is a css issue. jQuery would be overkill and negatively affect performance
* will select everything on the page :/
19:12
haha :)
Normally it wouldn't matter if it were happening once, but the elements covered by nth-child are changing very rapidly, and for jQuery to keep up it would require the browser to slow down rendering
Quoting Stack Overflow answer: "There is no standard pure CSS rule for assessing visibility.". Otherwise, can't you do something like.. *[visibility=visible]
@TravisJ CSS can only select on the structure of the document (i.e. HTML) but not on the visual representation that is determined by the CSS rules itself. So no, that won’t be possible.
Anything is possible
So I can select based on [display=none]?
testing
[something=somethingelse] also only operates on the structure, i.e. it selects elements which something attribute is set to somethingelse. As you usually specify the visibility in CSS, you can’t select that based on attributes.
19:19
I am watching the professor I TA really jack up some VB
What you could do is simply use a class that does the hiding job, e.g. class="hidden". That would give you a way to select the invisible objects, which you could subtract from a full list to get the visible ones.
It would help a bit if you could tell us what you are going to do with the elements when you have selected the visible ones (and where you are going to select them, i.e. in JavaScript or in actual CSS?)
It's a seeeecret
;D
19:26
@JLott What's he doing?
apparently this selector will not work :not([display=none])
@TravisJ As explained above, [attr=value] only works on HTML attributes.
@ReedCopsey He is teaching them functions... in a very incorrect way... So incorrect that I am not sure what he is trying to do.
Hi guys
Hey
19:27
@poke - <div style="display: none;" so perhaps it would work for not([style=display: none;])
nope, oh well
How do you chat with someone that has 13 rep
They can see what you say, but they cannot respond.
Or you can controversially upvote one of their answers.
@TravisJ div[style="display: none;"] would be the correct inner selector. Also it’s :not() not not(). But I doubt that the support is good enough to support such an inner selector.
@TravisJ Again the question though, where are you using this; and what are you going to do with it once you have it selected? There could be some other good way to solve your actual problem.
Hi @Meda
@Meda - I had to click the link again.
@JLott Uhh - what's he saying? (I'm always curious to know how people get so messed up ;) )
19:36
@poke - I was using :not, I just excluded it there since I thought you understood that.
@poke - As for what I am doing, it is to highlight every other row in a table (the table is made of divs though, not table, tr, tbody, etc)
Well he has finally fixed the function thing (he wasn't putting the parameters in as the right type, hoping it was an honest mistake), but someone goes, "Why don't we just use Math.Round" and he goes, "because I don't know what that is." facepalm
I am also about to watch this fail because he is not going to convert this decimal value returned from the function to string when trying to put it in a label. This is fun.
ouch
gotta love when people aren't qualified to teach :p
He is just old lol
He was probably good in his time
It takes forever for a question to be reopened
what question?
This is an odd one
0
Q: Async with WPF properties

Justin984I have a bound property like this: public string MyPath { get { return _mypath; } set { _mypath = value; NotifyPropertyChanged(() => MyPath); LoadSomeStuffFromMyPath(mypath) } } I'd like the make LoadSomeStuffFromMyPath async but I cannot await from a pr...

1
Q: Do Xamarin solutions integrate with Windows RT?

JLottI am considering switching to building applications using Xamarin in C# to allow for integration between tablets and Windows RT. Currently we are using WPF. Would we be able to use Xamarin products on Windows RT? Are there any limitations to developing a solution which would work for both tab...

19:43
yah @JLott, it takes a time to reopen a question, unless youre a new user..
I wrote the question then edited it. I knew it was broad lol. Didn't think it would get blown to pieces that much though.
I suspect that won't get reopened - I voted to open it
but it's a bit broad
but the answer is no - xamarin won't build on Windows RT directly
It is a question that is hard to not be broad.
so you'd have to PCL your logic and use the PCL library there
and on Xamarin for your other platforms
and just do unique UI in each platform
I see...
19:45
(which is pretty much what you do to support iOS and Android anyways)
@ton.yeung Yes and no - if the app is one where having a native UI is worth the effort, it's a good way to go
you can have one set of logic in one project, and unique UI per platform (which can include web, too)
so there can be huge reuse - but not 100% reuse
@ton.yeung We are going to want to use features of the device.. Camera and such. I think an App would be smoother but it will probably be more work
that's the type of scenario where it makes sense
it's definitely more work, but you get a better experience - so it's purely whether the cost is worth the benefit
@ton.yeung Yeah - but device specific functionality can be
How to replace everything between Password= and ; Connection ?: return Regex.Replace(FinalConnectionString, "(Password=)*(; Connection)", "Password=hidden; Connection");
@ton.yeung It just depends, IMO ;) The cost may be very low, too
@ton.yeung Who said anything about off shoring?
@TravisJ Okay, I see. I have tested that a bit, and while you are able to select the visible objects that way, you unfortunately cannot use :nth-child or :nth-of-type pseudo selectors then, as they don’t work on the result but just ignore the previous specifiers.
19:50
@ton.yeung Why?
ah here we go: return Regex.Replace(FinalConnectionString, "Password=[^;]*; Connection", "Password=hidden; Connection");
@poke - Hm, interesting. It is not a large issue for the rows to at times share the same background as the next because at that point there are far fewer rows. It was just something that irked me
The rows are still visibly separated by spacing and have hover effects
@ton.yeung I really do not know enough about this stuff.. What am I going to need besides Xamarin?
I have a Mac for a build server so that is not an issue.
@TravisJ Big lawsuit today with Apple vs Wi-Lan (small kelowna BC company)
@Ryan - Wasn't that a few days ago? Or was it settled today
19:53
I need an app that will run a part of one of our products. Someone on a desktop will send a service order out to a technician. That tech can make updates to the service order (this will include attaching photos he or she took) and then they will send it back to the host.
We use WCF right now.
We have an app that works on Windows 8 tablets.
(It is a sucky app and needs a lot of changes but it is an app.)
@JLott If you can make it a web app (or use phone gap), one code base will work everywhere
otherwise, you'd have to build and maintain a complete front end for each platform you need to support
if the UI is simple, that's not so bad
if it's pretty complicated, that is a lot of code to maintain
I haven't tried, but do windows tablets support camera capture through a browser?
The UI is pretty simple: Basic button that says service orders. Clicking on that takes you to a grid with all of the orders. Clicking on an order takes you to a form where you can make edits.
@JLott That sounds familiar ^^
Issue: They will not always have service, but they still need to be able to make notes and such
19:56
quick somebody try starting a ustream using their tablet browser
Hi, I prefer native code then phone gap but thats my opinion
you can use shared code (ie: SQLite for a DB, etc) across all platforms
for the background logic
but if you want it native, you'd need separate code bases for each UI
@ton.yeung iPad is the primary focus right now
@ReedCopsey Yeah I explained to the owner that it would be a different project for each platform but there would be a shared code base
@ton.yeung You work in the industry... people change their mind constantly
Our clients want it on the iPad... the owner wants it on the RT because he is planning on offering them to clients at one point.
@ton.yeung I have to figure out how difficult it would be to use Xamarin by Friday
I am now literally doing more there than people who get paid double what I do... He seemed ok with it.
He has very little programming knowledge
are these going to be store delivered?
I assume you mean apple store/windows store? yes.
20:00
Having used Xamarin’s MonoTouch in the past, I can tell you that while you do use C# to code everything and you can have a shared library or something, the amount of UI code needed to get it all running is still pretty big and highly specific to the platform you want to deploy it on. MonoTouch for example basically just makes the whole iOS Cocoa framework available as .NET while keeping nearly everything the same (i.e. you will find yourself look up Apple’s docs constanstly)
I haven’t looked at MonoDroid yet, but I would assume it’s very similar.
@poke Yeah - that's the biggest strength and weakness of xamarin, in general - each platform is native and unique
you get some shared code use, and your logic cna be shared, but the UI / framework /loading/etc will always be different'
I am the only one with any Objective-C knowledge there and it is VERY limited, so Xamarin could be a good option even if it would be more work.
Our company is getting outdated.. they have to do something
@JLott It'll be less work than duplicating the logic in Objective-C
because you'd at least be able to share the business logic on both platforms
That is what I figured and we do use MVVM so I was hoping that would make it easier.
20:04
HTML/CSS. Yes. ASP.NET. No, but I am wanting to learn.
I feel like this whole project is a circle lol
@TravisJ Samsung settled out of court, so did most other manufactures. Court battle today with Apple. They actually froze the stock during the court battle.
@ton.yeung It really depends on the use case and requirements, though - web apps aren't going to allow offline usage (which @JLott mentioned was a requirement), and phone gap never quite feels as good. It's often "good enough" when costs go in, but it is an issue
@ReedCopsey That looks interesting, thanks :o
@ReedCopsey Hmmm that link is interesting
Alright I am heading out to class you all. Thanks for the suggestions :) I am sure we will talk about it more tomorrow
@ReedCopsey localStorage absolutely allows for offline usage. Guess how Firefox OS is going to work? Web apps running locally, storing data on the device and only communicating if necessary.
20:07
@poke As soon as they run locally, they're not web apps.
@poke Yeah - and that's going to work from an ASP.Net server how...?
(I'm not disagreeing with your statement, but that doesn't help when it comes to an asp.net mvc option)
@ReedCopsey Well, I don’t really know much about ASP.NET, but in the end it still uses a HTML frontend, and if you get your application logic running in JavaScript you surely can do that.
does anyone have experience with writing unit tests for Enitity framework calls? Should I just .. not do it and test for something else?
at some point, that ends up more work than 2/3 simple UIs, though - especially if the logic is already written and working ;)
20:11
@KendallFrey I guess that depends on your definition; but usually applications that run in the browser are called web apps, regardless of them being online or offline. At least that’s what most of web people seem to agree on.
Notice the bias there?
"web people"
@poke - Allowing too much power from the client is a security risk.
Of course they call them web apps
Sure, because it’s based on web technologies.
and you need a web browser
But it doesn’t really matter much what you call them, or who calls them what. In the end, the technology does allow for it to be used offline :P
But only if your application (business) logic is shared up front in javascript? That doesn't seem like a good tradeoff for the most part. Maybe for entertainment sites that don't use sensitive data or processes.
20:15
@TravisJ Not really. Just because you do something on your client that doesn’t mean that the server sitting behind it all shouldn’t further do some checks of the data being processed. When you have a server offering some service, all data that comes in should be taken with extreme care. That applies to JavaScript applications just like it applies to .NET applications or apps that run on some mobile device.
@TravisJ Looking at the movement in the industry, a lot people do not seem to share that opinion.
@poke - That is flat out incorrect.
@poke - After the first interaction with the data the whole set would be unverified and unusable for business practices.
@poke - Also, no business is just going to publish their business logic to be viewed by the client.
You really only do front end validation as a convenience to the customer and to prevent spamming of your back end services.
Depends on what is meant by "business logic"
Yup. It can't be trusted.
@TravisJ I never said that. If you build a client in a multi tier system, you don’t put your business logic into the client either. It’s the same situation with “web apps”; they are just a different type of client that talk to the same server and happen to run in a browser.
20:18
@Mike - I agree. Which is why if the logic was not substantial then it would be of no concern. But then again, neither would the need for verification.
@poke - I believe you said "if you get your application logic running in JavaScript" and that is where I took issue.
Well, “application logic” to me is the logic of a specific application. For a client, it’s the client logic, not the business logic that’s executed on a secured server.
@ton.yeung and some superfluous form validation, also replicated on the server
Caching user interactions locally while offline and while the user had stale data can work. But the user would not be able to make any interactions based on their input data.
@ton - Any data input from the user without server verification would be unverified. We were talking about running a web app offline.
@TravisJ Well, of course, they can’t interact with a server when the connection to said server is not available. That applies to every client in a networked situation. A client can still save the actions it wants to perform and execute them later when the connection is available. You can do this with a desktop client, and you can do that with a “web app” client.
@poke - It is actually not the same. The client can request to save data, but it should not update because it would be unverified. As such, they could not continue to a next step based on their entered data until the data was verified. They can save some actions they would like to perform, but they cannot be sequential (as in building from one step to another) actions, only surface level ones.
20:26
This sounds reminiscent of multiplayer game client+server logic. You have the game client be able to autonomously predict the next few milliseconds of gameplay for when there's network hiccups (therefore needing a copy of most gameplay logic), but the client syncs with the server to validate the player's actions during the hiccup and get the true authoritative state of the game.
@ton - It isn't changing anything at that point. But letting a series of interactions get sent to the server based on client verification is a security concern.
@TravisJ You seem to have a very specific idea of those actions in mind, which need to be sequential. But I actually can think of many things that do not have such a requirement but could be easily completed later. Also, this still doesn’t make the web app version special; the same applies to another client for example written in .NET.
@poke - There are many things which do not meet this requirement, which is why I mentioned entertainment.
@ton.yeung Or capture the network :P
20:29
@Pheonixblade9 Pretty sure I have at least one of those
Yeah, I've got 5 :P
@poke - Data served to the client from the server is as guaranteed as possible - whereas an offline version would have data served in places from the client without a server in the middle.
@KendallFrey yeah, well I know what boobs feel like. BOOM!
...that was uncalled for.
haha
I know what they feel like too. I own a pair.
feels himself
@TravisJ Sorry, I don’t understand what you are trying to say there.
20:33
@poke - I am not arguing against all offline interaction. My main point is basically that there are some security limitations for business class software that require a heavy amount of verification.
@ton - As a user, in offline mode, lets say you enter a transaction.
@TravisJ Yes, absolutely. But that verification needs to happen on the server anyway. Regardless of what type of a client it is, online or offline, web or desktop or native mobile.
@ton - Nothing can be done with that transaction once entered because its validity is not going to be verified. To view that transaction's data, you would be viewing data provided by you (the client).
@ton - No, the scope of this is in offline mode (no server available for a long time).
Also note, that the original “specification” included the offline functionality as a requirement… chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/12538956#12538956
Because the server hasn't even seen it
@ton - It isn't a concern for filling out a single transaction.
Storing a picture and some notes isn't an issue. My point was about larger systems.
Obviously it matters for data integrity, but that should be obvious and only specific actions that are considered safe to be executed later should be even considered for this. I think it’s clear that certain critical actions won’t be able to be executed like that.
20:42
@poke - I would agree with that.
@ReedCopsey Remind me, have you used SLAB or not?
I'm trying to log an activity id, but not sure if it's supported.
(btw. considering that I write code—something I would consider critical to an application—completely offline and store it with a distributed version control system, and only push it when I want or can publish it, I would say that it does work for certain critical actions too if you have clear server rules for it)
@ton - Systems which require interactions to build on a base state would be at risk of committing partially validated object graphs if they were composed client side but normally composed server side. It would require a lot of diligence to be able to determine the sources of data and their validity once the application finally got the full set of data back when the client returned to online.
@ton.yeung For example updating some general data although my locally stored version might be outdated already; I can provide a change set relative to my state and push that to the server. And the server can decide if that would be conflicting with other changes or not, requiring further actions when it’s being pushed.
Clients can be malicious.
Perhaps will would be a better word there.
20:48
Or there could be special rules. For example when I’m a representative visiting a customer, I could previously acquire some special lock that will allow me to push all data as soon as I get back from the trip, considering that I probably have the “right” data given that I was there in person.
That sounds like a good thing.
Have the representatives just use git. Problem solved.
@Mike Hah, I wish that would work for everything ;D
@ton - Seems solid. Ever look at the error rates?
@ton.yeung Yeah, that’s exactly what I was (hopefully) talking about. You can store your actions offline, and execute them when you get back online and the server can decide if those actions can be executed or not, and feedback (while online) will allow the client to get out of the situation.
hmm... I just typed "what have you tried?" in an SO comment and it said "comments cannot contain that content"
20:52
They are strict
You can't use lmgtfy anymore
2
Q: Since when is http://whathaveyoutried.com/ banned?

MarcinSince when is http://whathaveyoutried.com/ banned? And, who took the decision? Edit: to be clear, this is was banned whether on its own, or with other content. It's an incredibly popular summary of how to ask a good question. Update 2: Apparently it's working again, even on its own, over at SO.

(That question states it’s working again, but it was disabled later again: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/172760/141542)
Basically if you comment along the lines of what have you tried the system will either prevent it or immediately delete it
That awesome feel when your credit card bill arrives the day after you pay it.
I think it would be nice if the textarea for the question said "what have you tried" along with a few other hints
AFAIK, you can still use url shorteners to post "banned" links
20:55
^as a placeholder
@Kendall - Yup. It would be too much effort to follow links all the time.
@TravisJ The box at the side mentions “Share your research.” which could be interpreted that way.
But it’s a box on the side. It’s not even red and 300% font size. So people won’t read it.
@TravisJ I doubt it
@poke - I only just now noticed it.
@TravisJ q.e.d.
All you need is to send a HTTP request, and check status and Location
20:57
8
Q: Implement placeholder/overlay text outlining main question requirements inside the question textarea

JamesOn SO when you click "ask a question", the subject "placeholder/overlay" is: What's your programming question? Be specific How about having something on the question textarea too? It must be simple, or the type of people this is mostly aimed at wont read it. Proposal I suggest in the qu...

@Kendall - Yup. Maybe they thought that would be too much strain as opposed to just using a regex.
I wonder how much rep Jon Skeet has lost to the rep cap.
I don’t think he cares :P
haha me either
But still, it is probably in the tens of thousands. It would be interesting to see
wow, someone who just doesn't know shit about programming:
0
A: Change different variables by function input

Pheonixblade9I think you misunderstand the concept of arguments/method calls. In your example: <button onclick="Test(MyX)"><p>Test</p></button> <button onclick="Test(MyY)"><p>Test</p></button> What happens here is when these buttons are clicked, the function Test is called with whatever values MyX and MyY...

and then you link your own answer? :P
fuckin newb get outta here
21:02
@TravisJ yeah, lol. Idk how basic I needed to be
@Pheonixblade9 You shouldn’t belittle your knowledge like that.
@poke lol, thanks. Just seemed like the guy knew absolutely nothing, so I wasn't sure how to answer the question.
Oh, you were talking about OP? I thought you meant yourself given that you linked to your answer xD
XD hahaha
@Pheonixblade9 - I think he had something in mind like this: jsfiddle.net/taTEw
21:12
@TravisJ yeah, absolutely. I just don't think he understood the concepts of function calls or scoping at all.
The problem is that when you pass in a variable that has an int, then it is by value and not reference. So adjusting it in the function wont affect the base variable. I think it made sense that the OP was struggling between the concepts of how javascript passes by either value or reference.
A better solution would of course be to use a module or psuedo class there and get rid of the inline js.
exactly
so you should do your better answer... if you want
Nah, I am done answering for today lol
I broke 20k today :) managed to sneak in before the 2 year mark
4
yay
I wanna get mortarboard on SO main
I was working on generalist
I am 5 tags short
21:20
nice
@TravisJ starnice!

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