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00:31
Typo: referring to column that isn't in data frame stackoverflow.com/questions/57047809/…
 
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05:03
hello
 
1 hour later…
06:05
good morning all
Hi all :-)
06:54
@RonakShah Q is a dupe, except maybe for assignment but not clear in the Q is the problem and your sol is basically (this one](stackoverflow.com/a/28976068/4137985) from the target the OP linked....
@Cath maybe.. I am not sure though. I usually find it difficult to find dupes related to regex and web scraping because those are too specific and very less general to hammer.
 
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09:25
@Cath Is it a typo? How do the get that error when using gsub...?
being vectorize, it should not have error out because of that error
@Sotos it seems so, as OP seems to have only one pattern "1700" that they want to change but error says the pattern is multiple. I'm guessing they put gusb(v1, "1700", "1600") but of course cannot be sure as OP didn't post their attempt...
lets see if they share the attempt
that be nice, else, it can still go into typo/not repro anyway ;-)
agreed :)
09:35
helo
Hey :-)
10:16
@Cath oh comment :) I usually downvote and delete vote
@Cath I feel like I have a secret admirer on GH :)
11:03
Doctor: All are good with the baby. We are going for C-Section around September 29th - 30th. But not October 1st because it's a public holiday
I was like...'Ok, let me tell the kid so he wont rush out'
So you get to choose kids birthdate?
well... I think we are gonna go in the hospital at the 28th and wait for the waters to break
By sept. 30th, they will break them if they dont break and deliver the baby since the day after will be on holidays,....
I mean...really? I am still shocked. Don't know whether to laugh or cry
11:29
@zx8754 new user / be nice policy / I'm in a good mood / all that ;-p
@DavidArenburg not secret at all, I go totally uncover ^^ the girl is just so annoying
@Sotos o_O
@zx8754 side note 1/ I did flag the Q though. side note 2: I got my comment in a repository you may be familiar with ;-D
@DavidArenburg and now you got too and the other one comes with comparisons and stuff to illustrate the arguments :-)
11:54
@Cath you mean "two"? I'm kind of tired of this discussion and I also lost truck of what are we even discussing. I think I'm backing of of it
@Cath great happy it is useful
@DavidArenburg yep, didn't have my afternoon coffee yet...
somehow this is the first time I see this website: r-forge.r-project.org
@DavidArenburg I must say, I was tempted to respond to Ludmila (or whatever her name is) but didn't want to start an endless discussion, moreover when I feel she won't even consider arguments that imply tidyverse is not that miracle-"package" she (and others) thinks it is...
@zx8754 I go there very often, and more now that autocomments don't work anymore
@Cath link? what are you guys on about?
@Cath I think she was mostly reasonable / bearable. The other guy started barking at me when I first responded and I had the urge to choke him. He calmed down in his later responses - so good thing I didn't respond.
discussion after Norman Matloff essay on skepticism about tidyverse...
oh crap, is it tidy vs dt mess again
@zx8754 tidy vs base R
@DavidArenburg "You're right, if you only teach people base R, they will be fishing more - fishing for the right solution, that is." you find that reasonable? I could see her little proud smile from here ^^
@zx8754 not even. More tidy vs. putting limit on what tidy can do
12:03
I guess I didn't read all what she wrote and skipped most of it. I just felt she was making her point in a more or less civil manner
@DavidArenburg I got some of her reactions. The woman must have a poster of Hadley above her bed...
btw what's your opinion about Rladies? (and the sentence about "Tidy makes learning easier for women and minorities" o_O) to me, R (or any other programming language) is not a matter of gender
"Tidy makes learning easier for women and minorities" ???
Are they implying that women are less capable of learning?
And how minorities are related here? A language barrier?
@DavidArenburg that's how I understand it, at least in learning programming, and I really find that shocking
@DavidArenburg no idea! probably in the "women and kids" but they replace kids by "minorities" but like "the weak ones".............
12:09
Is it written on Rladies site? Or is it Norms interpretation?
@DavidArenburg I'm googling to see where it comes from exactly. The way I understand it, it's in the tidyverse manual or description or...
@DavidArenburg maybe that: R has a diverse and welcoming community, both online (e.g. the #rstats twitter community) and in person (like the many R meetups). Two particularly inspiring community groups are rweekly newsletter which makes it easy to keep up to date with R, and R-Ladies which has made a wonderfully welcoming community for women and other minority genders.
directly linked to Rladies
@Cath I don't see anything regarding tidyverse though
@DavidArenburg it's in Hadley book but not directly linked to tidyverse
I don't know if N. Matloff had a specific reference for the sentence
I guess it's Norms interpretation then. That above mentioned sentence doesn't make any sense TBH
@DavidArenburg yeah that may be. I hope so anyway
12:50
@RonakShah gone
@Cath "No one has ever heard of Matt Doyle." ROFL
13:08
@Roland the world is tiny for some tidy people...
@Cath Well, I don't know a Mr Doyle either. Matt Dowle however, is an extremely nice guy (who has a career outside R; good for him!).
4
:-D
13:46
@DavidArenburg definitely. So source is twitter...
@Cath or he claims so.
14:29
@DavidArenburg Norm doesn't appear to be too precise with his references, and his track record with women isn't all that great
@Axeman really, I'm not really familiar with him
@DavidArenburg hah you are missing (or not) a lot from Twitter
@Axeman removing Norm from argument: do you not agree that tidy is becoming a norm, and R might suffer because of this in a long run?
@zx8754 I think he makes some good points, but I disagree with quite some others.
As you probably know, while I don't use data.table very much I do think it is really awesome and think it should keep a prominent place
I also (obviously) think knowing base R is invaluable
@zx8754 I'm kind of hesitant of getting into it as I am afraid I'm going to get too emotionally involved
One thing that I find a bit annoying, is the fact that RStudio is implicitly described as some big bad corporation that is trying to take over R. And CRAN, according to Norm.
They have written some good packages, and yes, they promote them. Why wouldn't they.
Some people seem to think it is the job of RStudio to promote data.table, which is a bit silly really
14:43
imo they should promote base R above all
@Axeman He just saying that they are becoming a monopoly which makes sense, because we are living in a capitalistic world. But he claims it's not good for the R community in general
@Axeman I also thought it is silly
RS is not a bad corp, but what it is doing can hurt R in a long run. useR2019 was mostly about tidy (maybe Jaap/Cath can correct me). This is already shows that tidy (RS) is going in a wrong direction.
As for teaching base vs tidy to beginners; Norm argues that there is only anecdotal evidence for teaching tidy to be beneficial. But then he makes strong claims that teaching base R definitely is better, only on anecdotal evidence. The reality is that we don't really know. (I teach base R to beginners, and tidy to more advanced useRs)
I think it is reasonable to say there is a danger in RStudio becoming too powerful, they obviously have different incentives and a different structure than say R Core.
What basically happening, according to him, is that a corporation taking over an open source project using their money - and it is wrong
But there are claims going around (by Norm) that soon you won't be able to submit packages to CRAN that aren't tidy, or submit academic papers that aren't tidy.
14:48
it doesn't matter what RStudios intentions - good or bad (probably they are just trying to make more money)- we can't let any corporation take over an open source project
@Axeman I think you linked some Tweet where some guy was complaining about it too
@zx8754 I will not correct you on that as it is totally right unfortunetly. We were remarking with Jaap how all (or almost all?) of the presentations made use of tidy packages
what the heck does "tidy" mean anyway?!
@zx8754 Who knows. According to Norm, the tidyverse does not include ggplot2, dplyr and tidyr
@Axeman I don't see how they wouldn't be included...
they're like base of tidyverse ^^
@DavidArenburg I strongly believe it is better for the long term health of the community if other "styles" of R remain prominently used
@DavidArenburg One person submitted a paper, was asked to revise and resubmit (super normal), then decided he didn't have the time and now claims he got rejected because RStudio wanted to block his package.
But it sounds to me that he just isn't very used to how academic publishing works. Revise and resubmit isn't a rejection at all.
@Axeman Well, according to Kate and Jaap it is too late already
@Cath Because they were made before the tidyverse existed
@DavidArenburg I've always liked that this room has been fairly balanced, and SO answers in general seem to do a good job showing different methods, so I guess at least we aren't to blame
(altough maybe I am, I mostly answer using tidyverse)
@Axeman yes, we aren't. I think we could (at least I) agree that this is RStudios fault (while, again, they are not doing it from bad intentions, rather greediness)- which is what I read Norm is trying to say
@DavidArenburg I think many at RS (like Hadley) aren't doing for greediness either. But I agree that shouldn't really be the point
It is a problem for the discussion, in my opinion, that Norm muddies that central point with a lot of other gripes and bait, some of which is just bound to rile people up
15:02
Wow, unpleasant surprise that strptime(x, "") gives the current date for any character string x. I didn't know that. And it's not how I interpret "For strptime the input string need not specify the date completely: it is assumed that unspecified seconds, minutes or hours are zero, and an unspecified year, month or day is the current one."
@Axeman but tidyverse wouldn't exist if they hadn't been made
@Cath Yes, and dplyr and tidyr are the absolute central core. But that's what Norm thinks.
@Axeman I never do so we probably get a balance here ;-) (though I don't post answers that often...)
@Roland maybe point is to remind you when was it that you messed up the data :D
2
@Roland Interesting. I guess I haven't encountered it as I don't use functions that create a lot attributes that hard to handle afterwards. Same goes for na.omit
ok, gym time. see you guy later
15:08
@Cath I think about half my answers are ggplot, which most people seem to like whether they use tidyverse or not. Although I recently saw an tweet that was annoyed that lattice use has descreased so much!
@Roland it's suprising but users only get what they deserve when defining "" as format ;-) (though probably returning NA would be a better behaviour)
@Axeman I don't like ggplot ^^ (never understood lattice enough to be willing to use it though :'D) base plot is my thing :-)
one can do nice plots with base plot: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6525459/figure/Fig2 (I find it nice but really not objective ;-p )
@Cath Of course you can, you can do pretty much anything in base.
@Cath oh your work, is it only base?
@zx8754 yes, use of layout, else it's polar coordinates and function polygon
I haven't followed the Great R Debate closely, but it seems like some of what folks are arguing about comes down to context and preference. dplyr and ggplot fit my thinking and many of my use-cases, so I lean on them heavily
15:15
@zx8754 I find it easier to control everything
Telling anyone else that they should be doing things one way or not doing things one way seems weird
Totally get the corporate influence in open source piece of the argument though
 
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17:05
i'm so used to seeing [.data.table impose extra overhead vs base with(), but not here: stackoverflow.com/a/57062251 (1.5s vs 0.05s for a simple task) i guess there must be some good optimization in the data.table-ish versions of unique. maybe another thing they can contribute to base R...
17:57
Re Count number of rows within each group, in an aggregate/summarize, I recommend upvoting #3-ranked dplyr answer by jeremycg and downvoting the #1-ranked (plyr) answer because it's years obsolete... ah curation.
@smci Mothballed sound to me like it is no longer maintained, but it is..
also, the question is specifically about aggregate, so I think that answer is most appropriate
18:17
@smci I've reworded the answer in a more friendly manner (imo at least); with regard to recommendations for upvoting: you could just as well recommend to upvote all proper solutions (not the clumsy ones off course)
18:28
@Axeman No, mothballed in software means 'no longer in feature development, but still functional'. The first Google definition of 'mothballed' concurs.
@Axeman No, the question did not specify any package, so base, dplyr, data.table, tidyverse answers are equally acceptable; and obviously answers from mainstream packages under active devpt are better than mothballed packages with known issues in 2013. (Btw the original only said "Count number of rows within each group"; it was me who edited in "... in an aggregate/summarize" today, if that mischaracterized it, then please edit it better.
@Axeman Well the OP's original version #1 said "Is there a aggregate FUN option to count occurances?" [sic] but then they may not have been aware of all the other non-base packages. cc: @Jaap and Henrik who did some edits in 2017. (This is a good meta-example about original intent vs what the asked needed, but was unaware of. But under no circumstances is the best answer plyr)
The bottom line is this is our de-facto target question for this important topic, I just closed this dupe into it and it'll get a whole lot more traffic. So let's agree what it should say; also answers should be kept up-to-date, and obsolete answers should be edited or culled, that simple.
@smci I would leave that edit out; the shorter the better imo
imo, it's a bit odd so specify summarise in the title
but it's fine to give different suggestions
If don't want to start a sidebar on "Why is plyr package obsolete, what are its limitations (functional/ performance/ known-issues)?" because Hadley himself acknowedged the answer is "many" and that would be a bad fit for SO.
@Axeman I don't think so, the OP themself specifically asked about aggregate. Can you offer a better title? If yes just do it, please. Simply saying "count within a group" strikes me as way vague. But, maybe most disagree with that.
18:40
@smci it's clearer than aggregate imo
19:05
"Count number of rows within each group" is a good title, imo
19:40
@Cath you might like this: pain au chocolat vs chocolatine visualized :-)
@Jaap Looks like a full_join to me, but there might be some further data problems
 
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21:35
@Jaap It's not an either-or proposition; surely saying both "Count number of rows within each group" and "... in an aggregate/summarize" as I edited the title is even better? New users who don't know what aggregate/summarize are can understand. Don't you think?

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