« first day (3307 days earlier)      last day (1648 days later) » 

3:18 AM
@Developer00 Your image dont resize accordingly to devices, because you used AbsoluteLayout
You dont have to mess with dp if you use RelativeLayout
 
 
2 hours later…
5:14 AM
Ben Popper on November 05, 2019

We’re back with another Stack Overflow podcast. This week our guest is Clive Thompson, journalist, programmer, and author of the book Coders: The Making of a New Tribe and Remaking of the World. He shares the secret to getting any developer to open up during an interview: ask them about the worst bug they’ve ever had to deal with.

The crew discusses Google’s declaration of Quantum Supremacy and tries to wrap their mind around qubits and superpositions. Ben mangles the pronunciation of ASP.net, Sara finds a name for her new pet snake, and Paul wonders how JFK would have pronoun …

 
 
1 hour later…
6:20 AM
morning! :)
 
Goooood moorniiiiiiing CeeeeeShaaaarp! Have you had any unexplainable errors lately?
 
6:36 AM
you are awesome!
 
blush
 
/// △ ///
 
7:19 AM
@nyconing you're my angel
thanks
hello everyone
 
Good morning.
 
hey
 
morning
 
I'm mostly done migrating our eventstore/event sourcing framework to the new CosmosDB SDK. Mostly. They changed, what, about 80% of the public API surface, but most of the changes were trivial. Now I'm hitting the ugly bits.
 
7:28 AM
Morning
 
@nyconing But I need to I think
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Changing an API is something that I once thought nobody would dare do
 
Basically
First thing first
 
What are those ugly bits, you say? We had some custom JSON.NET serializer code specifying how the event envelope entity will be serialized to the DB. Now, the new SDK doesn't expose JSON.NET explicitly and I'm not sure how to control serialization. Hmm.
 
I need to position an image inside a png hole
 
7:30 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez Ah, it happens quite a bit in a controlled, versioned way. In this case, it's just the client SDK - the cosmos DB itself hasn't changed and you can use the same APIs as before.
 
I know the width and height of the hole in %
and I know the hole's center
if I don't use measurement unit I can't get width & height
cause width request and heightrequest return -1
 
Ah okay. I thought your were refactoring a heavily-used API to do entirely different stuff
 
@HéctorÁlvarez I have a library we developed in a previous project to do event sourcing over CosmosDB. It used the v2 CosmosDB client library.
Now I'm porting that eventstore library to our new project, and we decided to upgrade to the v3 SDK because hey, new project, might as well use the new stuff, right?
Turns out there are more caveats than I thought.
 
damn you, caveats! damn you!
 
But it's good. The previous library was built up bit-by-bit while learning how to do it properly, and it's a bit hacky. This is a good excuse for cleaning it up a bit.
For instance, for batch inserts into Cosmos, we had to use the rather hacky approach of calling a stored procedure directly. Now the new API exposes a Batch Add functionality which I've switched to.
Also, I'm focusing on tiny bits of infrastructure because I'm not going to be in this project for much longer so I might as well try to nail the bits that people will use perfectly. :shrug:
 
7:35 AM
the problem with using an upgraded library is that the next time you have to deal with projects using the older version of the same library, you may be met with discrepancies
so to be proper, you'd have to update the older projects to use the newer version of the library
 
Hmmm interesting. The way I think about API evolution is always adding methods, never removing, and deprecating the old ones as you add new ones, so eventually you can get rid of the old legacy stuff, following the good old excuse of "I told you to stop using that 3 version ago"
 
and that can be a real hassle according to the amount of differences
 
@Neil Well, the old project is dead.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez That's the way updates should be ideally
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan tell that to your boss next time he asks you to do a tiny update :P
joking aside, it's probably not a problem then
 
@Neil No, no. It's dead. Discontinued. Funding revoked. Resources reallocated. Next week the last of the Azure subscriptions will be erased.
@HéctorÁlvarez It's an interesting study here. You have two different "layers" of API here. The first is the APIs that the service exposes, the CosmosDB REST APIs. These are stable and versioned and changed very carefully.
 
7:37 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan whelp. Then I think it's fine if you just copy-paste the old code with some refactoring at will... but I wouldn't name it v3, more like an entirely different name.
 
The second is the client SDK for .NET - what might be called "bindings" in some places - which is a local .NET object model that wraps the calls to the API.
 
I don't think you can always hope to achieve a "perfect" upgrade where older methods work but are deprecated and newer methods are introduced
but if the library is structured well, then it should be obtainable in most instances
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Well, that's what Microsoft chose to do - the v3 of the CosmosDB SDK has a very different public surface than v2.
 
was Kattis hacked?
their home page gives an error page now
 
lots of websites were hacked yesterday
 
7:40 AM
@Neil Times out for me
 
companies, rather than websites
 
something happen?
 
seems like some group is targeting specific companies one by one
and spreading some ransomware
I have the link handy
Damn it's in Spanish
 
well what's the hacker group?
 
IDK, they remain silent, but notoriously Everis has been hacked across multiple domains
http://everis.com
http://everis.es
http://premioseveris.pe
http://premioseveris.com.co
http://premioseveris.com.ar
http://fundacioneveris.com
among others
also several radio stations
and more companies are reporting issues
 
7:42 AM
makes me want to change my passwords everywhere
 
Yep me too. I have to develop a new pattern to accomodate symbols
 
nothing is safe
 
perhaps it will be my new year's resolution
 
Don't you guys use password managers?
 
a well-placed hacker attack could be devastating
@RoelvanUden I should. What do you use?
 
7:44 AM
KeePass.
 
@RoelvanUden I use Keepass sometimes, but it's tedious
 
I use LastPass.
 
I wanted to develop my own password manager
but I have no time
lol
 
@Developer00 Don't.
@HéctorÁlvarez Why is it tedious?
 
Exactly
 
7:45 AM
@Developer00 That's kind of like developing your own encryption algorithm - usually a bad idea.
 
I don't even know if it would work
 
@RoelvanUden because I don't always have access to my Keepass. When I'm not at home it's not comfortable to copy-paste, and much faster to actually have a strong password pattern.
 
does KeePass have some sort of blind system in place?
 
But an encryption algorithm that has not been violated exists atm?
 
@Developer00 Plenty of safe encryption algorithms. 99.9999% chance that any you come up with won't be.
 
7:46 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez I see. I just synchronize my key database between work- and home computer, and use URL recognition to auto-insert passwords. I don't ever see the KeePass UI at all, unless I'm changing PWs.
 
Yeah but I mean
 
I said it before, not here, but I am gonna say it again:
One password for each service
Randomly generated
 
Jup. And use 2FA wherever possible, AND, don't use a password manager for your e-mail.
 
Every algorithm I studied has been violated
 
stored in a password manager protected with a secret master password
 
7:47 AM
Now what's used
 
I do use a keePass variant with 2FA
And do backup the password manager database of course
 
@Developer00 That's simply not true. You're currently talking on a websocket with HTTPS/AES whatever encryption and it's pretty much impossible to break right now.
 
@RoelvanUden Yes but if I'm not at home or at the office, there's a huge risk I'll forget the password, even more so if I use auto-generated ones. Try remembering a 64-bit random key by heart :)
 
@RoelvanUden keepass.info
Is this what you use?
 
@Neil Yep. And KeePass for Android on my phone.
 
7:49 AM
I think I might go for that honestly
 
You're right
 
Like, go to your friend's place and he asks you to log in amazon prime video to watch something. Do you open a laptop and dictate the password?
or phone, doesn't matter.
 
thing with ssl were just like perfection
 
I use KeepAssRC instead plain KeePass because it works better with my Yubikey
 
I'd rather have a strong password pattern and forget about Keepass for non-work-related stuff
 
7:50 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez Some would say that logging on to your service on a friend's computer is an opsec violation, and thus the password manager flow doesn't support it very well.
 
KeePassRC - KeePass pros and cons:
PROs: Better cross platform support
CONs: Lack the huge amount of plugins KeePass has
 
I then use OneDrive to synchronize the database file where I need it. It's a bit more of a hassle to set up than, say, LastPass; but it's not centralized anywhere as a high-profile target that's interesting for hackers to attack. Attacks would have to be on OneDrive and specifically tailored to your key database... and I'm not a high profile target to do that. :-P
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan You're right, but we want to watch vikings. Vikings > Opsec
 
@HéctorÁlvarez But, you know, it doesn't have to be either/or. I have a couple of strong passwords I remember for services I often need to access when not on my main machines, and have LastPass create strong random passwoirds for me for most other places.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez I don't login on an untrusted device.
 
7:51 AM
KeePass has some great "store the database in your drive" plugins
 
Eh? The whole idea of KeePass is not to have an online place to store the database.. it's always local. It's your responsibility to handle.
 
I'd stab babies for my best friends, becuase they are the kind of people that stood by me every minute when my life was crumbling down.
No problem logging in their smart TV to watch some stuff and chill
 
It is safe onlice backup in my case, I protect it also with an master password and a 2FA physical token
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Then I'd just change the PW and share it with them; no need to break the pw flow! :P
 
so yeah I'd rather go with the <service first 3 odd letters>_correct-horse-battery-staple pattern and forget about keepass.
 
7:55 AM
you know
 
One service password leak would compromise all other services
 
in my company's db
password are visible and not encrypted
 
idk who designed that db
 
In most countries that's cause enough for very steep monetary penalties.
 
7:56 AM
idk if there are some laws about it there
 
nobody can see my password but me: hunter2
 
Not sure about Italy, but I'd imagine they have similar watchdog instances like in the NL
 
@bradbury9 Quite unlikely. Most people who steal passwords do so massively, so they'll try to copy-paste it into other services automatically, and give up when the combination doesn't match. The only real way to tell your password pattern would be to actually steal your password explicitly and analyze it.
 
would it be a bad idea to save the keepass password file in google drive?
would be nice to have it synchronized
@RoelvanUden I'm no lawyer, but I'm fairly sure there are some harsh laws also in Italy with regards to this sort of thing
I just assumed it was a EU thing honestly
 
@Neil I don't think that's bad. I keep my KeePass file in OneDrive. What's important, I think, is that there is no central place for an attacker to target. Like LastPass centralized servers being very interesting to attack. Unless you're a very high profile target, I don't think anyone will bother to try and gain access to your Google Drive, get the database file, break it's encryption, and then use your passwords.
 
8:02 AM
right, that makes sense
 
But how likely is it to get someone to break your encryption?
 
they'd have to access my google drive before they could even begin to break my decryption
 
If you have a good enough master password, and hopefully some certificate... well we're talking about by the time your passwords are stolen USB might be deprecated as floppy drives.
 
the thing about encryption is that it is never impossible to crack, just really really impractical
 
@HéctorÁlvarez You know, targeted attacks do exists also
 
8:06 AM
though once upon a time SHA-256 was pretty secure, now I'm not so sure
 
@Neil If you protect the actual file fine (no "1234" master password) I think it is fine google drive backup
 
@bradbury9 I'm not such an important person as to have a proficient hacker steal the 13.57€ in my bank account.
 
it's not the 13.57 you should be worried about
it's your paypal account which lets you rack up debt
 
It is someone charging your debts
 
it's anyone with enough information to be able to steal your identity and run with it
I suppose once someone has all your personal info, how the actual f would you go about fixing a situation like that?
 
8:10 AM
The "I'm not such an important person" argument is a wrong belief many have
 
when I say month duration
is the last one inclusive?
say I say I worked on something July - Oct
is Oct inclusive?
 
generally yes
you wouldn't say July - August to say just July
 
I work 7-8
here 8 isn't inclusive
 
no, it doesn't work the same for hours
 
hmm
okay
 
8:11 AM
don't ask me why
 
lol
 
Good thing I don't host a keepass file on google drive.
 
maybe because hours are a discriminate measure which can be subdivided
months cannot
 
hmm
 
Lmao
 
8:12 AM
you can't deal with half a month in any reasonable sense
 
will look into discriminate measure
 
Hey, you know what would be fun? Bringing up date and time representations again. :)
 
I failed my formula to calculate dps
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan oh oh! I vote 13 month calendar!
 
28 days each
fun
 
8:13 AM
@Shad Because you work from 7.00 to 8.00, not to 8.59. That's implicit in hours. But months you take them whole.
 
okie
 
admittedly switching over to such a system would be incredibly awkward, but then so was the conversion to the metric system
 
btw yesterday we were talking about money
 
@Developer00 damage*attack_speed - flat_armor - %armor
 
@Developer00 So did Ubisoft in its The Division 1 and then in the Division 2 titles. And they are huge
 
8:14 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez Good point. Saying "8 o'clock" is implied to refer to a specific moment in time, 8:00. But "October" usually refers to a span of time, the month of October, and not October 1st.
 
and I didn't consider the costs of living here instead of uk
 
@Neil It would be a lot harder than switching to the metric system, which in most places was done before extensive computerization of society.
 
idk how expensive it is to live in uk
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan true, but if we had to switch over to the metric system now it would be damn difficult
I don't think the difficulty of switching to a system should be factored in too much
 
@Neil It would, but I think the calendar is a lot more deeply ingrained into our day to day conventions than distances are.
 
8:15 AM
the point of switching is not for the challenge of it all. The point is because of the advantages of what you'd have using the new system
 
Switching from feet to meters is just a matter of changing numbers - it's not "2" and not "6".
Changing calendars, especially as relates to its cyclical structure, is a lot more of a hassle.
 
but when I say I worked till October
 
I've always thought we should be using Zulu time. That kind of switch would be a lot more straightforward
 
then that specifically means before October 1st
 
you'd have to simply relearn what time of day you do things, but once you've adjusted, it will never change
 
8:17 AM
We should change other things
 
you'd wake up every morning at 2:00, have your morning breakfast at 2:45, go to work at 3:30, eat lunch at 7:30, and then come home at 12:30
basically same thing as now, with an offset applied to your usual times
and then there would be no more ambiguity about when the meeting is. A meeting at 11:30 would be the same time everywhere in the world
and you know you get off work at 12:30, so you'd have a good idea at what time of day that is
 
@Neil We've gone over this before, haven't we? Even in today's internet age, the huge majority of people live locally. Saying that what they consider "8:00 in the morning" will now be called "2:00" just so people who do business with china can synchronize calendars more easily makes no sense.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez DPS is damage/ time... So your formula is wrong
 
the fact that you have to specify "8:00 in the morning" is because it is already ambiguous just saying "8:00" with our current system
 
You're taking away hundreds of years of cultural shorthands about the relation between times and hours, to make it easy for a small subset of the population to not have to synchronize their clocks.
 
8:21 AM
in the new system, "8:00" is not ambiguous.
 
@bradbury9 No becuase your true DPS will depend on the target armor.
 
Should be something similar to: (damage - (armor*%armor_reduction)) /time
 
@Neil But this ambiguity isn't really a problem that needs solving. We're used to it. You're trying to create a system that's uniform, on paper, but *that doesn't solve real problems that most people have, and creates many more real problems for them"
 
Someone plays rpg here
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan That's ridiculous, that's like saying that when I fly to a new timezone and forget to offset my watch 6 hours, that suddenly I don't know what time 9 o'clock on my watch is
all I have to do is subtract 6 hours from the time on my watch.. that's literally it
 
8:22 AM
@bradbury9 also DPS/time is the same damage * attack frequency.
@bradbury9 oh right
 
if someone says that breakfast is at 9, I don't have to worry about when that is, because I can look at my watch, and say, "ok, when my watch says 15, then it will be 9 o'clock here"
 
I brainfarted there.
 
@Neil Let's say you read a book, and it says "I looked at my watch, it was nine o'clock". Now you need to know where the story takes place to understand whether nine o'clock is morning, noon or night.
 
you would adjust, and quite quickly
 
You can change my "time" into attack_frecuency of course
 
8:23 AM
@Neil Wait, that's the way things are now.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Yes, and you'd only do it to the extent of knowing what time it would have been in the old system
But eventually you wouldn't need to do that at all, in the same way that you don't need to convert to pounds what you see in kilograms because you have a general idea how much a kilogram is
technically the imperial system wasn't creating problems, but the metric system was simply better
Also the switch to the metric system was heavily resisted at first
 
@Neil Maybe. I'm still not convinced that abolishing timezones and having one unified time zone will give you much.
Pay careful attention to your biases - you're on GMT+0, so chances are your concepts of hour vs. time of day won't change that much.
Will you still support the system if you'll have a nine hour offset from what you're currently used to? What will you feel that you've gained?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I would. I don't see the big deal honestly
 
I think you're far from being a representative case.
 
timezones, if you think about it, are a great solution if you only rarely have to deal with people from other timezones
and I deal regularly with people from the states and from great britain
 
8:28 AM
@Neil I would argue that the case can be made for the opposite approach.
 
maybe I'm not the norm, but there's no reason to assume that this is a problem that will just go away in a few decades
 
When you say "9:00am", it means the same for you and for someone in the US or Japan.
In the new system, saying "9:00am" will require calculation and adjustment.
You won't gain anything here, just move the internal timezone arithmetic somewhere else.
Because there's a real, measurable, physical difference. Timezones aren't just social constructs, they exist, in nature.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan When are you ever going to refer to "9:00am" in the context of what someone from the US or Japan perceives 9:00am, unless it is because you yourself have made the proper adjustments of the time in order for that time to be relatable to them?
If I wanted to write a story and talk about how I drank my coffee at 9:00am, I would simply say "in the morning"
 
@Neil When I say "I usually get up at 5:30am", it's quite universally acknowledged to be "very early". You'll lose that.
 
or if it is relative to another time, then you talk about it in relative terms.. "this happened 90 minutes later.."
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Not if you're talking to me and I live in your same timezone you won't
 
8:31 AM
@Neil You can just say "in the morning", which is you saying "I'm willing to give up on being able to express certain things in my new system".
 
everyone in your timezone knows what is "early"
 
I think timezones are actually social constructs because where nature is progressive, we take steps and adhere all surrounding areas to a common factor in order to have a tool to communicate time and synchronize with each other.
 
@Neil But your whole point was to ease communications across time zones. Now I can't say that to anyone far away without getting back to teh same calculations. When a Japanese person hears me say 5:30am, he won't have any intuitive understanding of what 5:30am means to me.
 
Yes, the ability to specify the exact time of day in the context of where the sun is in the sky without specifying also the position you would lose
except in your own timezone, in which case you'd lose nothing
Yes, I think that's an acceptable loss
 
Avner are you are night person or a morning person?
 
8:33 AM
@Neil And this is something we do a lot, all the time. Sure, you can lose that, but be aware you're losing it. Don't say, "oh, it's not important". It's acceptable to you, but I think you're entirely unaware of what role it plays in your day to day language, in books and dialogs.
 
think about watching the oscar without staying up after midnight
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan If you're arranging a meeting with someone in Japan, how is this relevant?
 
@Shad That distinction kind of lost relevance when I had kids.
 
haha
 
@Neil 99.99999999% of my life does not involve arranging meetings in Japan. I prefer a system that lets me write a story or a blog post that is easily relatable to people in Japan or California, rather than a system that easily allows me to schedule a meeting with someone in Japan or California.
 
8:34 AM
Right now, if I were hosting a skype meeting with people from Bombay, Paris, and London, I'd have to give the next meeting times for each respective time zone. I could just say, "Meeting is at 17"
 
It looks more convenient to assume the same time zone on a daily basis and calculate the timezone difference when needed, than having a standard time frame across the globe. It would make more sense if daylight span was stable, but since that also fluctuates with seasons it doesn't make sense to do so.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Then where is the loss? You yourself gave the example of a Japanese person hearing you say 5:30 am..
 
or you just say 9:00 CET and you let the do the rest
 
@Neil But how often do you arrange a Skype meeting with Yamamoto-sama?
 
@Neil When I write a story about getting up at 5:30am, I want my reader to be able to understand easily that it's "very early" (and no, writing "very early" isn't the solution, it's just bad writing). I lose that. Given a choice between a system that prioritizes relatable prose vs. simple scheduling, my vote goes to prose.
 
8:35 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez About as often as I communicate to Yamamoto-sama when I woke up in the morning to convey a sense of time of day
 
what about summer time
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Then you say you woke up at 5:30am according to the old system.
 
@Neil Let's put it differently. Where are you from?
What country?
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Italy
 
OK so let's say you watch Naruto
 
8:37 AM
Pizza Pasta Mandolino
 
Naruto says he woke up at 5am to start training
and in Italy, 5am may be mid day
You'd think he slacked when he actually woke up early.
 
aside from the fact that you wouldn't have am or pm anymore, so am would give away the fact that it is the old system
 
what a lazy ninja
 
You're also not an imbecile and you know Naruto was made before the new time system
so you apply that context and know what they meant
 
May I remind you the Z generation already doesn't know how to use a phone like the old icon design before smartphones were made.
Or what a floppy disk is.
 
8:39 AM
that's like saying that if someone says that something weighs 5, and now, using the metric system, you don't know if that's kilograms or stones
context is generally pretty clear, but it if isn't, it is usually given
but lets suppose 50 years pass under the new system, and someone is reading Naruto, and it says Naruto woke up bright and early at 5:30am.
 
@Neil which effectively means both systems will be in place indefinitely, which defeats the whole point.
 
I mean, you and me may be smart enough to tell, but I think the sense of knowing exactly what time of the day someone's referring to is much more convenient than skipping timezone specifications.
 
They'd first wonder what is "am", but they'd also have to doubt that Naruto woke up at the equivalent of 14 in the afternoon, since the clues would seem to suggest the contrary
 
@HéctorÁlvarez that's generalization
 
also you'd probably have to be 10 years old to not know that a second system existed 50 years ago
 
8:41 AM
@Neil So you're saying you have a system that, instead of expressing the information you need in the terminology, requires you to divine clues from context.
Why?
 
What did people do before time zones were standardized and someone in a story talked about the time in another part of the world?
 
I mean, sure, you can do that. You can also see the timezone for your Skype meeting, have your scheduling software auto-adjust for it, and use that.
 
> Yes, the ability to specify the exact time of day in the context of where the sun is in the sky without specifying also the position you would lose except in your own timezone, in which case you'd lose nothing. Yes, I think that's an acceptable loss
 
@Neil They didn't have to do anything. Because it didn't matter. "Woke up at 9 this morning" would be clear regardless of time zone, because our 12-hour time system was aligned according to solar time.
 
If there is need for context, you provide it
In the same way that now you'd have to necessarily specify every timezone impacted by stating a particular time for a meeting
 
8:43 AM
@Neil Acceptable for you, because you prioritize meeting scheduling. I prioritize other things.
 
like writing stories for people in Japan?
I think this is a little more relevant
 
I disagree.
 
still waiting for a more practical example
 
Take this chat room. I regularly talk with people from the USA, Europe, East Asia and other places. I communicate with them textually a lot more than I schedule meetings with them.
 
you want to convey the message that the sun was low early in the sky when you got up one day.. so you just say that..
 
8:45 AM
Same with twitter and other social media.
 
ok, so I'd think this would come up often
 
Work is just a part of my life. Scheduling meetings is just a part of my work. All in all, it's a very small part of my life, and not one that's been giving me any sort of problems for the past 10 years or so.
@Neil Quite the opposite. I find that communicating with people through shared experiences comes up more often, and makes more of a difference, than through shared time zones.
 
and it would be such a bother to add context like "16,00.. for you that would be like 23,00"
assuming they couldn't do the math themselves
 
@Neil Would it be such a bother to add context like "16,00... for you that would be like 23,00" when scheduling a meeting?
 
seems more reasonable to create a system where you can unambiguously state a time of day and have everyone know what time that is regardless of timezone
 
8:48 AM
assuming they couldn't do the math themselves
@Neil You have that system. It's called UTC.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan That's just it, it wouldn't just be "for you that would be like 23,00" especially if there are 13 people from 4 distinct timezones
 
@Neil but that applies equally to your question!
 
you'd have to say, the meeting will be 08,00 PMT, 16,00 GMT+1, 15,00 GMT
 
"I got up at 5:30 today. That's 4:30 for you folks in Italy. 10:30 in Vietnam. 13:30 in eastern Australia. Anyway, where was I?"
You do see that these problems are entirely symmterical, right?
 
yes, I see that. Now if we're under the assumption that these problems are symmetrical, why not use a better system?
 
8:51 AM
@Neil Because I don't think it's any better. It takes the onus of adjusting the given times from something I consider relatively rare (scheduling) and moves it to something I encounter a lot more often.
 
timezones are clunky and awkward. It is also far from intuitive, I just think we've been under this system long enough to get a firm enough grip on the concept.
 
Additionally, since scheduling (especially cross-timezone) is often done using specialized software, whereas general communications isn't, I would prefer to keep the adjustment in the domain where the computer can assist.
 
Though you still have the occasional clutz who thinks moving forward a timezone means jumping forward in time
 
@Neil Yes, they are clunky and awkward. But you're not solving it, you're just moving it around.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yes, moving it around to eliminate the need to specify timezone
but by all means, lets continue to explain to our children that according to your position on the planet, the time changes
that's not counterintuitive at all
 
8:55 AM
@Neil No, moving it around to eliminate the need to specify timezone when scheduling. But still needing to specify timezones when trying to convey time-of-day specific information. I understand that you don't feel this is something you do, but I think it's a much bigger deal than you think.
 
again, I think for the most part, we've simply gotten used to it for lack of a better system
that is pretty important I dare say. Plane pilots aren't chatting it up on the radio about what time in the morning they got up that would justify retaining the current system
If objectively we weren't under one system or the other, I honestly do think it would be more evident which is the better system
but seeing how everyone is used to this system, it makes any other system confusing and different from what you're used to
maybe that's justification to never change systems
I just don't believe it is the better system
 

« first day (3307 days earlier)      last day (1648 days later) »