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10:00 AM
ok, so the latter
 
ok, ill explain
when guy A in the story said "the guy with the silver dollar is surely going to get the job", that gets interpreted
"the silver dollar" is pretty obvious
"the guy with <x>" is guy b
"the job" is also pretty obvious
so, guy b is going to get the job
 
This is one interpretation. So your proof that this isn't a paradox is "See? This is one interpretation of two.."
 
when guy a later found out he also had a silver dollar, then we can ask the question, "do I want to make the same prediction again?" which gets interpreted again
 
if anything you should prove to me that the second interpretation isn't there..
 
or, we can take the original prediction "guy b is going to get the job"
if we make the prediction again, we get a different result out of "the guy with <x>"
because now, we know that that is both
so... "both guys are going to get the job"
 
10:04 AM
So the statement "The guy with the silver dollar is going to get the job" is wrong? Even if you can't deny that these sequence of words happens to be right?
 
I found a problem with my monitor config
 
the sequence of words cant be right or wrong, they are just words
the meaning of the sentence can be right or wrong
 
I can clearly see why you'd favor the first interpretation, but that doesn't mean the second interpretation is non-existent
 
and that meaning is coupled to more than just its words
the second interpretation is non-existent for the person making the statement/prediction
 
My output isn't wide enough when debugging asp things because everything is prefixed with shit like 'iisexpress.exe' (CLR v4.0.30319: /LM/W3SVC/2/ROOT-1-131919337625269971):
 
10:05 AM
@Wietlol ok, then your first intpretation doesn't exist either.. also that is a sequence of words
 
if, a third person, who knew both had a silver dollar, was hearing that statement, he would have a different interpretation
this creates the biggest problem humans have
misinterpretation
@Neil guy a made the prediction, only the first interpretation is one he would make
 
if he re-interprets his own statement after the fact and gets a second meaning, that's a second interpretation.. by definition
 
he couldnt make the second interpretation because he didnt qualift as "the guy who hass <x>"
 
any new way you could understand a statement is a new interpretation
there was only one intended meaning when he said it, but multiple intepretations
 
@Neil at that moment, he could ask the question "do I want to stick with my original prediction, or re-interpret it?"
 
10:08 AM
I'm not saying he should change his intended meaning.. clearly he meant that guy B would get the interview
but there are most certainly multiple interpretations.. otherwise what are we discussing here?
 
so, he knew he was incorrect
but, that third person would think he is correct... and very sneaky
 
he knew that his intended meaning was incorrect. his statement was true
 
his statement is tightly coupled to the meaning
if the meaning was incorrect, so is the statement
if not, then we get an unpleasant situation, where everyone must be politically correct and shit
 
I disagree
you can be incorrect but say an accurate statement just the same
 
and if not, then you can be whacked for saying things even tho you had no idea what they meant
 
10:11 AM
it's the difference between meaning and interpreted meaning
since they're not the same, one can be wrong and the other can be right
or vice versa
 
there is no difference, except that "meaning" is implicitly the "interpreted meaning of the person making the statement"
there is no universal meaning
 
if there were no difference, a good portion of jokes would make absolutely no sense
as you should only interpret it in the way that was meant to be interpretted by the speaker
 
well... a good portion of jokes would make absolutely no sense either way
 
most jokes are funny because there are multiple interpretations
 
you can look at my chat history for proof
:)
comedians have the problem that they must try to make everyone else have that interpretation that the comedian desires
which is really difficult
in some ways, it is also useful
if you want, for example, make a joke that kids shouldnt understand
my interpretations are often different from other people
 
10:15 AM
well that is indeed the trick isn't it
if nobody sees the second interpretation, the joke falls flat
 
hence why I often watch comedians and im like "why the heck is everyone laughing?"
 
well this explains a lot :)
 
still, its not a paradox
 
You're a paradox!
 
@Wietlol sometimes atmosphere is more than enough to get laughs
like if any other person would tell the things they are saying no one would laugh
 
10:25 AM
@LeeButler no, am bigcat
@misha130 also true... and annoying at times
 
mr5
10:36 AM
My implementation is so terrible
How did I ended up like this.
 
I suggest starting with basic grammar
 
SLA, LOD, DM, etc
 
!!googleme mfg mit frundlichen grüßen fanta 4
 
For people understanding german
Great german rap song about all those abbreviations flying around nowadays
An actual hit from a great band
 
10:40 AM
Single Level of Abstraction, Law of Demeter, Direct Mapping, etcetera
better?
 
Absolutely
I was at Service Level Agreement
My first internship was as SLM M'Kay
 
my first internship was as a developer
 
mr5
I have managed to make it more readable
 
I see
 
mr5
Next step of simplification would be to put that Wrap inside PostAsync
 
10:44 AM
I like the renaming a lot... especially from Destination to CheckInResult
 
mr5
lol
 
it is important tho
 
mr5
 
is CheckInResult also supposed to be an IEnumerable?
 
mr5
This was the previous one
Nope. I posted different methods. My bad
 
10:46 AM
what does transform do?
 
mr5
That's why I posted this few hours ago:
3 hours ago, by mr5
Let's support generics and generic type parameters in aliases
@Wietlol it actually just wraps the data
into DataResponse
 
what we use is something like DataResponse.Of(value)
 
mr5
Oh. Cool name
 
I think that would be similar to Transform
 
mr5
Few conflict. DataResponse is not a service though
It's just a non-dumb model
 
10:49 AM
yes?
there are many models which work that way
for example Maybe/Optional
or Result
Result.OfValue(x)
Result.OfError(y)
 
wait so its a monad in a way?
 
its a generic api response
 
mr5
what's monad?
 
its a functor, not a monad
(smol difference)
 
mr5
I think so
 
10:51 AM
yea just the use of Maybe
 
Maybe is a monad tho
 
mr5
I just want another layer of model. I don't want to directly wrap with the same model as what the WebApi uses
 
but I suppose that DataResponse being a functor is the reason why Of or OfValue or something like that makes sense
ah, you are transforming from external api model to your internal service model?
have you tried making adapter models?
or rather, what is the reason for having two different models?
 
mr5
Hmm, I don't think I have a valid reason. Maybe, dependencies?
 
ah, the trump card
 
mr5
10:55 AM
I have been used with that MVP pattern where it is strictly not to reference anything directly
 
I might be wrong but I like to do it like this:
var response = await GetAsync<IEnumerable<Destination>>("api/location/getvisittedplaced?pg=1&pg=10");
return Transform(response, (arg) => arg.MapDataList<LocationDTO>());
 
mr5
@misha130 that's what I'm planning to do. Put the generic inside Get/PostAsync
and totally remove the Transform method
 
I would keep external services as they are
 
mr5
But doing so would add another layer of generics
I would end up with 3 angle brackets or 3 nested generics
 
@CaptainSquirrel Not if the two names were in two separate implicitly created classes for anonymous types.
or anonymous methods.
 
10:58 AM
IEnumerable<Destination> destinations = client.GetVisitedPlaces(pg: ListOf(1, 10));
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan fair enough
 
Isn't there a way to make the transform part overrideable?
 
return destinations.Select(destination => LocationDto.Of(destination));
 
Cap'n O7
 
mr5
@misha130 I really have no plan of keeping this method though
 
10:59 AM
Sure DataResponse.Of(...) makes sense too @Wietlol
 
meh, Of methods should be very specific about their implementation
 
Yea I misread
 
LocationDto.Of(destination) copies the values of the destination and returns a LocationDto instance
DataResponse.Of(value) should simply wrap the value in a generic response
for example adding a header with information about which endpoint is used, version of the endpoint, moment when it was called, etc
in simple terms, it always wraps the value inside the model of the type you call it from
if that simply changes the API or wraps it in some Functor, that doesnt really matter
 
mr5
to be continued tomorrow.
cya guys
 
laytar
 
11:05 AM
lol those squirrels
cya
 
Aren't they all just the same squirrel with different hats and fake moustaches?
 
:D
 
arent they all the same person with multiple accounts?
i mean... the same squirrel
 
only a squirrel would know
 
Ah fuck I forgot how long Xamarin Forms apps take to build
 
11:18 AM
Still better than Gradle build
 
hey ny >==<>
 
hello ny greater or equal or not equal to
 
;P
 
hahaha
 
 
1 hour later…
12:36 PM
@Wietlol we are not the same person
We are hive mind
(not really, but its fun to say that)
@Squirrelkiller o7
 
so, you are actually bees?
 
Damn it the one time I expect people in the warehouse to be retards and they annoyingly just aren't
 
12:52 PM
which project management tool do you suggest? Something that have SCV integration, bug tracking, gantt, etc..
One of our member forces Jira, which most likely be accepted, but no other viable option had a chance yet
 
1:06 PM
@ntohl tfs? github?
 
TFS is BAD
 
GITHUB GOOD
Caveman central in here.
 
github is good, just we have security policy issues, that we have to avoid program code in the cloud
or pressure really really hard
so a project management tool with bare git integration is preferred
 
@ntohl bitbucket offers a server as service kind of thing
whatever they all have their pros and cons and security is all kinds of awful
worked for food health company in USA as part of their security nothing can be on the cloud or atleast this is how we were forced to interpret it
 
1:24 PM
nice. Jira would be integrated with bitbucket
than that is not a bad path
 
there is no cloud, it is just someone else's computer
solved all your problems
 
No, its cloud because nobody know where is the computer or how many computer that actually run your codes inside data center.
 
1:47 PM
its actually a bunch of monkeys that are physically transferring data to each other but because they are so many of these monkeys you dont actually notice it
 
i know where my servers run
and exactly how many machines run them
it is still considered cloud
 
@ntohl GitLab on-premise
 
Resources used in virtual instance are microsegmented and scalable through physical hardware.
 
@RoelvanUden thanks. Will look into that
 
+1 on gitlab tbh
 
1:57 PM
I'm looking to develop a web service that will process a number of parallel tasks. So tasks will complete quicker than others. Is it possible for a Web API to return the tasks as they are completed, rather than wait for them all to complete ?
 
@neildt hmm, if you make a request to the server, you don't have to wait for the response in order to make another request
 
Web API return the result from completed task.
 
@neildt Depending on your design, it is possible, but it's not standard practice.
 
meaning you could potentially send out multiple requests in this way
 
You can make progress bar for UX
 
2:00 PM
Github only
 
For example if you look at TripAdvisor when you go to the hotel page, they dynamically load in the prices from 3rd party APIs. So return quicker than others. I want to design a similar service. The user visits a web page and requests the data, we get this from 3rd party feeds. At the time of the request we don't know how many will respond
Basically whilst the UI is updating, the WebAPI is still processing the request on the server for the other tasks
How is this possible..
 
Like Neil said, you can make multiple requests in JS and handle each as they complete. That's how you handle it.
 
what makes you think they're making requests to third party APIs?
just like google, google doesn't ask every page to give a summary of its content in real time
 
I assume they are not. Maybe they are caching
 
it has a server with a database
TripAdvisor simply performs a quick database search
ordered by price or whatever
you can't really break this down into several parallel calls
If you need to do something similar, I would strongly suggest for efficiency, all the information the user needs is on your server
third parties can contribute and update that data when it's convenient for them
 
2:04 PM
Can anyone help me with memorycache problem: paste.ofcode.org/Azs8tpYHxyZUxvzuEjhZDi
Problem is that, when I get list from cache, when I am adding new item to it, then cache is also updated (even if I don't call it)
 
But say in this instance they didn't cache anything and pulled the feed directly from 3rd party API. Are you saying that it isn't possible for a web service to return tasks as they are completed ?
 
@Taurib make it public async Task<IReadonlyList<Team>> GetTeamsCache()
 
LOL just because it was same instance
 
@neildt sure you can, so long as it is asynchronous
but there will very likely be post-processing like ordering or whatnot
I wouldn't expect it to be particularly efficient, especially considering if a server is slow or non-existent, you'd have to wait that long
 
but... teams.ToList() should be enough
 
2:09 PM
@Neil so I could have a asynchronous web api method that returned the tasks as they completed?
public async Task<HttpResponseMessage> Get(int id)
{
 PolicyModel response = await policyRepository.GetPolicyAsync(id);
 return Request.CreateResponse<PolicyModel>(HttpStatusCode.OK,response);
}
Like this example
 
you'd need to call them all and receive some sort of future instance
then only when you need them, you force it to resolve the values
 
I was thinking that the client would fire off a request to the web api, and the web api would process say 10 tasks, computing the desired response and returning to the client. As each task is completed, the web api will aggregate the results together and return them to the client until all tasks have been completed or timed out.
each time the aggregated response would be the same but with the newly completed task data in the response
 
@Wietlol This did not fix that..
 
Or am I approaching this in totally the wrong way
 
how so?
 
2:15 PM
Also when i return list with .ToList(), then it should return new instance of that list already?
@Wietlol Wait, I might be a bit stupid.. :)
 
just a bit?
:p
 
Yeah, turns out so, I added this to wrong method.. -.-*
 
makes sense
 
@neildt That approach makes you have to wait on the slowest. Which is exactly what you didn't want.
 
What's the shortcut in VS to duplicate the line, I can't remember
 
2:19 PM
@RoelvanUden ah ok so web api for example can't return tasks as they are completed
You have to at least wait for them all to finish, even though they could be computed in parallel
 
for me, its [ctrl]+[d]
butt... I use my own keymap
 
@neildt No. You can return one response and that's it. With that said, there are options. You can take control of the response stream and send a JSONified chunk across each time your server state changes. Then the client needs some intelligent way to detect/cut pieces and parse it. It's not easy to do. Another option is simply to use a websocket.
 
Now I'm sure that's worked before but Ctrl+D just waits for a second combo
 
[ctrl]+[r] - [ctrl]+[d] ?
[alt]+[f4]?
 
[cmd]+[q]
 
2:22 PM
ctrl + d works for me
 
[win] [up] [right] [enter] [up] [enter] [enter] [enter] ?
 
Apaprently Ctrl+D is a default resharper combo
 
yyp if you use VsVim
 
default resharper combo
 
currentCursor.location.line.duplicate()
 
2:24 PM
Huh
 
Good news: r# still needed in VS'19
 
I just had to go into the Resharper settings and re-apply the control scheme it was already on and now it workjs
 
Better news: VS not needed in C# development.
 
Bad News: R# is still broken in 2019
 
LOL
 
2:26 PM
@Wietlol You do if you don't have Java isntalleds
 
no, you just install Jaba
 
VS'19 itself is broken too
 
also, cant you code C# in VSCode?
 
Rolled back to VS17 for winform project.
 
I thought it was decent for .NET languages
 
2:27 PM
Why would anybody install Java in 2019
 
because reasons?
 
@nyconing It's in preview, no surprise
 
I'd install Java in any year
 
Why
 
why not?
Java development
Java applications
 
2:28 PM
You know you need Java to run Windows >_<
 
Java Windows
 
I'm happy I don't need Java on my machines anymore. Java plugins were cancerous.
 
very Much So
that was an old employee who I worked with, I about smacked him over the head with a keyboard
 
I've just found 597 reasons not to install Java
 
@RoelvanUden Thanks. So I don't have any other options then. I wonder how the likes of TripAdvisor, Trivago do this
 
2:29 PM
and they are?
 
The page seems to update as prices are received via the feeds
 
@neildt Well, debug it.
You have the power.
 
@neildt Probably either use sockets or keep polling for new entries
 
I still dont know why Lee Butler doesnt want to install Java
Java is love, Java is life!
What is Java?
Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.
 
2:47 PM
@Wietlol not as catchy imho
 
That's less than a quarter
 
but Java is all < 8
at least... the top page with highest score
@Neil I still think cap should say the second line if anyone says something like what is <x>?
"what\s+is\s+[a-zA-Z0-9]+?"
now make it!
on the other hand... most vulnerabilities are just programmers being dumb
 
I agree, except bonus points if it only works for single-syllable words
 
forgetting to escape things properly and stuff
@Neil put a dictionary on the bot which can find syllables and filter the messages
but I can still sing it with 2 syllables
 
you can't sing it with 2 syllables without my eyes rolling upwards and to the left
 
2:57 PM
wanna bet?
♫ What is Java? ♫
 
Fucked it already
Here's a better one
♫What is Sun♫
♫Java don't hurt me♫
♫ Don't crash me ♫
 
!!> Math.floor(Math.random() * 50) + 1
 
@ntohl 19
 
♫No mo- SEGMENTATION FAULT
I know it's Oracle now but it doesn't fit properly
 
> Vulnerability in the Java SE component of Oracle Java SE (subcomponent: Java DB). Supported versions that are affected are Java SE: 6u191, 7u181 and 8u172. Difficult to exploit vulnerability allows unauthenticated attacker with network access via multiple protocols to compromise Java SE. While the vulnerability is in Java SE, attacks may significantly impact additional products. Successful attacks of this vulnerability can result in takeover of Java SE...
definitely not programmer being dumb
 
3:03 PM
@LeeButler are you grandpa?
 
What is Orac.. projectile vomits
 
"When I was a kid, there wasn't no Oracle running Java. No, when I was a boy it was Sun. Sun Microsystems they called themselves. Those were the days..."
 
sorry, there seems to be something weird going on with the word Orac.. projectile vomits again
 
on a completely unrelated side note... someone did a presentation of docker containers and shit, and mentioned that it was quite fast to set up a container, run it and let it shut down
but... can you get that to like... 20ms?
 
I don't understand containers
 
3:05 PM
I think they might be really interesting
 
might be feasible if you just loaded a "run" state from memory
 
considering Java has some interesting features considering short-running programs
 
guys , typescript question

 return data.map((x) => {
          return {
            securityGroupId: x.securityGroupId,
            categoryName: x.personCategory.name,
            positionTitle: x.positionTitle.name,
            securityGroupName: x.name
          };
        });
      })).

some times x.positionTitle is undefired so it cause error
how to check if it null or not within the return scope
 
like consuming all your memory? Even more than allowed?
 
CTRLK K
 
3:06 PM
... pretty much
one of them is a no-op garbage collector... which... indeed... doesnt clear your collected garbage
 
Also this is defintely not the place for Typescript
 
it speeds up your application by removing the gc overhead
 
Oh fuck
 
but you only want to use it for short running applications
 
"Speeds up the applciation by removing GC"
 
3:08 PM
like... unit tests, serverless - (docker)contained - functions
 
😃 great improvement
 
I'm sure there's a picture somewhere which illustrates that perfectly
 
@LeeButler GC overhead
the garbage is cleared when the application shuts down
 
That's not GC
 
I have few apps working only on stack withot GC
 
3:09 PM
That's just the application shutting down
 
That's not GC though, that's just normal deallocation
 
I can't think of what the picture would be called but imagine a developer showing his manager an application. The developer shows a task which completes in a couple of milliseconds, and grins about it executing 10x faster than previous versions. The manager then asks "Yeah but why is it using 11GB of ram?"
 
That is not a problem GC would solve
 
depends
 
If you think huge volumes of objects are constantly being allocated in normal code, you're wrong.
 
3:12 PM
You haven't seen the wonderous powers of the garbage collector in an old system I used to have
 
if you create a lot, but dont use it any more, then it would be collected and cleared when it becomes too much
 
Not huge volumes of objects, just huge objects in my case
 
@Bassem do x.positionTitle? x.positionTitle.name: ''
 
Also, why would using 11GB of RAM for a couple of milliseconds be a problem?
 
if you really need the RAM, and it isnt cleared anytime soon, then it could be an issue
 
3:17 PM
if you put your StopWatch.Stop() just before the "few ms" long program exits, than takes a half minute break to free the resources, it's pretty false measurement.
 
@Wietlol In what world is 5ms not "soon"?
 
@ntohl you'd do the measurements externally
something like, starting a stopwatch, running the application as a process, then waiting until it finishes
@KendallFrey 5ms would be fine
but an application that "runs" for a couple of milliseconds, could keep its resources longer
especially since the manager would say "run" or "complete" as the behavior he wants the application to be
not an actual process in the operating system
 
You just got done explaining why that's a bad argument
 
A bad argument? In the C# room? really?!
 
3:39 PM
Did system bus can actually fill 11 GB of memory in 5ms?
 
In this isntance sure
Realistically no
 
posted on January 14, 2019 by ericlippert

Last time on FAIC we discovered that when you “lift” a polynomial on doubles to a polynomial on duals and then evaluate it with x+1ε, the “real” part of the returned dual exactly corresponds to the original polynomial at x; … Continue reading →

 
NH.
4:32 PM
I think that's the first time I heard anyone sneeze the word "fish"
 
> UnknownPolicyNumberQuotationNumberClientNumber
number?
 
NH.
nah
couldn't be a number
 

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