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12:34 AM
Is there a way to split the app.config into several files? For instance, I'd like to have the configuration for system.diagnostics in a separate file.
 
 
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5 hours later…
7:01 AM
Gooood moorniiiing CeeeeShaaarp! Have you met or noticed any very nice people lately? Tell their tory, light up our day, give them some credit they deserve!
 
@KendallFrey do you discord?
 
We should totally have a Discord
Although I'm not sure that'd be healthy, I feel safer when writing
 
hi
 
Morning Breathing
 
if I store an object in an array, increment the index , change the values of object why do I see same value un previous index as well?
 
7:11 AM
waitwaitwait
 
is because array is storing the reference, right?
 
slowly
if you put the same object in both places in the array, then yes, it's both the same object
 
arr[0] = ob ; ob.name = 'changedname'; arr[1] = ob
 
ya, ob always stays the same object
You never create a new object, so you have exactly one object
 
so array is storing the reference of it
 
7:13 AM
yes
 
not a copy
 
as it happens with everywhere in C#, you only pass the reference to the object, never the object itself
 
how have you been squirrelkiller
 
only way to copy something by passing it is using valuetypes, name structs
 
hmm,
 
7:15 AM
Had a good first 2 months at my new job, as you can see I feel confident enough to be in here now XD
 
haha nice to hear! :)
 
When you handle objects in c#, you actually only handle the references. A variable holding an object actually holds a reference to that object. Every time you pass your "object" to an array or a method, in reality the reference is copied.
So *technically*, everything is pass-by-value, since you pass the value of the reference (pointer to an object). But it's simnpler to just work with "pass-by-reference", although the true pass-by-reference is only achieved using the 'ref' keyword (or 'out').
ValueTypes, namely primitive types (char/int/bool/float/...) and structs, are pass-by-value anyway.
 
yeah such a basic thing :>
 
hola avner!
 
7:23 AM
Holá amigo
 
ohayou
 
Holá Próxy
 
your explanation is kind of confusing :)
 
Thanks, I do my best to keep the demand for programmers high and the supply low so I can easier negotiate higher wages.
 
that is why i love you
 
7:29 AM
Also dónde está Héctor? Tienne un trabajo nuevo? Haven't heard from him in a while.
Google says Hector Alvarez is a fictional character - did we all just imagine him?
 
Proxy I saw you in ergo proxy
 
8:11 AM
Such a bad anime.
Good morning.
 
8:26 AM
@Breathing so did you like me?
 
@RoelvanUden Did you hear they're making a live-action adaptation of Cowboy Bebop?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Yes. It's going to be terrible. I guarantee it.
 
Probably.
 
I've yet to see a live-action adaptation of anime that worked out.
 
The Matrix?
 
8:33 AM
Well, Ghost in the Shell wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good either.
 
Bleach?
 
Yes, yes, I know it's not an adaptation, just borrowed heavily.
 
Bleach live action had rad effects
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan It works because it has no references to an existing series. Hollywood always seems to be doing their own thing and not following the source material, and that just doesn't work for anime.
@Squirrelkiller Go away.
 
@RoelvanUden I disagree. I think for an adaptation to succeed, it has to really disconnect from the source material and do its own thing, not try to do "anime in live action". That's doomed to failure, being neither here nor there.
Take the elements of the anime, and make a western hollywood movie from those elements.
 
8:35 AM
I've seen some live-action adaptations that weren't terrible in Hollywood (GITS) and Japan (Yamato 2199, Saikano), but most attempts are just terrible.
 
mr5
How about the Death Note?
 
@mr5 Don't mention that blasphemy.
 
mr5
err it's not Hollywood is it?
How is that a blasphemy? They do really well on live action
 
@mr5 I'm conflating "Netflix" and "Hollywood" here, as a general term for "live action adaptation made by people not from the same cultural background as the source material".
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan The problem is that they take too few elements. They seem to take a few elements, like setting and character traits, and go from there. When you ignore everything that makes an anime great (the story, the feeling, the pacing, etc) and call it a live-action adaptation, it's going to be bad. For anime-fans and for the new viewers. They're better off making an original then, without the burden of source material. An adaption has to be good and take what makes the source great.
e.g. MARVEL Cinematic, I think, did very well with respect to its source material
Thinking about it, it would be much better to take a less-action orientated anime and adapt that. The over-the-top designs, overarching story, crazy world settings, and insane monologue and action just doesn't translate well into real life. Whoever does it. Something based more in real-life would probably work well. I think Your Name (Kimi no na wa) is going to be adapted, it's a perfect example of what could work well -- recognizable world, a love story, no weird action and over the top designs
If the acting is good and the pacing is right, that could really work.
 
mr5
8:58 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan "conflating" adding this to my vocabularies
 
@RoelvanUden The main issue a lot of people have with anime is japanese cultural conventions which seem odd to westerners. I agree that Your Name doesn't have too many of those, and can easily be converted to western live-action. It's a good movie.
 
mr5
I'm referring to the version of DN where the actors are Asian so I think it doesn't fall in Netflix and Hollywood?
 
I think it's a Netflix Japan adaptation.
Ah, there's a westernized 2017 adaptation by Netflix, and a 2006 Japanese adaptation.
 
9:22 AM
@Proxy yes very much! :D
 
9:38 AM
The following form to initialize
 
Morning
 
new Object(x) {
    y=..;
    z=..;
}
This is just using the constructor with (x) will put the y and z as ..?
After running the constructor I guess
 
thanks >(
:)
 
10:12 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Exactly, and looking at something like Bleach or Naruto, it's just too far removed from any Western media fantasy world. You require a whole lot of context, you have to explain everything. Doing that in ~2 hours? It doesn't work. World building takes time. A familiar setting alleviates all of that and allows a story to pace better. That's why I think most anime live-actions fail; they take a popular IP (over-the-top action with crazy worlds) and cram it into ~2 hours. Doesn't work.
Anime movies like Your Name, A Silent Voice, Wolf's Children, and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time are great material to be live-action.
 
10:36 AM
Sup
Guys, don't install a random driver on your bluetooth radio.
I was like "At most it will stop working so I'll have to install a different one over it", but it actually crashes your OS hard
Hard as in it took me a few days with a laptop to troubleshoot, it chain-reacts into unrecoverable state.
 
@RoelvanUden Having seen the first and last of those, I agree. Of course, a live action series might do a better job of introducing the setting. It's a general problem with shoehorning a lengthy franchise (whether anime or books) into a single movie.
@HéctorÁlvarez I think "don't install a random driver" is a pretty good tip in and of itself.
Also yay, you exist! You weren't a strange shared hallucination!
 
installing a random driver is a bit like sitting in a industrial crane and pushing buttons at random
You may obtain the results you need, but probably not
 
10:52 AM
Exactly. But I was expecting to get just a malfunctioning device for installing a different BT radio driver, I mean the OS should be smart enough to detect when a device is making the whole system fail and disable it during boot, should it? Well it's not that clever.
BSOD? Sure, but next boot make sure that doesn't happen again...
 
some things like that can be done fairly easily
Save a backup of configuration before last successful reboot
but things can still go wrong with a change even if it boots once properly
what I've never understood is how windows treats processes which don't die
I'd think we'd have surpassed these types of problems already.. if a process isn't responding, and has been asked nicely several times to die.. KILL IT
sometimes not even "end process" works
 
how about downloading random .exe files from random websites (often from mail.ru)?
 
I do that all the time.
Yeah windows should integrate pskill
 
unix handles processes in a far more reasonable manner
 
Oh hey one programming question, I'm currently looking at some windows forms project, DS4Windows if it rings a bell. I'm trying to get the designer but throws me an exception where a combo box doesn't exist. I go into the code and it does exist... apparently it's undeclared or never assigned according to the designer error stack, but I can see it from the code, not throwing any errrors
But the declaration is inside an auto-generated partial class that I can't modify.
 
11:09 AM
Is it a custom combobox?
 
We have a recent commit with the message "use unsafe instead of dynamic" and I'm very curious about it.
 
@Neil Yes it is. How did you know.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Windows has taskkill.exe for that.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez because that sounds like the type of problem you'd get if some dependencies were missing
 
Hmmm... the control is inside the Forms folder, inside the project, and it runs perfectly so I'm clearly missing something.
 
11:12 AM
the designer runs the initialize method in order to show you what the form would show normally
If you can't see it in the designer, you shouldn't be able to see it when you run the program
unless there is some weird condition where it checks that it is being run by the designer
 
@Neil Not necessarily. It's possible the 3rd party dependency is available at runtime but not for the VS process.
@Neil (That's actually pretty common, to supply design-time placeholders or fake data)
 
@HéctorÁlvarez I suppose that's what you should look for then
If it uses 3rd party dependencies, check that the designer knows about them. If it's doing something weird purely in designer mode, verify that it isn't that causing the problem
 
The designer for the control works perfectly
So I'll look for broken dependencies first
 
wait, I'm confused then.. does it not work in the designer or when you run it?
 
it doesn't work in the form designer. The control designer works. Running it does too.
Actually I don't know if it actually loads it. Maybe it crashes if it actually tries to draw the combo?
 
11:24 AM
so check the settings that getting assigned to the combo box
default instance "as is" can be drawn
 
Hey Hector and Avner are both in today
 
so in your form, remove these extra settings and see if that fixes it
 
It should be working, so my guess is I'm not building the project correctly or something.
 
@LeeButler And what am I? Chopped liver?
 
You're always here
 
11:25 AM
Because it exists, it's referenced properly according to Intellisense.
Awwww so sweet. <3
 
@JohanLarsson Yes, more than this
 
It was exactly the problem.
Okay I don't know if my platform is undefined, but neither x64 nor x86 work for me
I'm almost certain my i7-8700k is amd64 compatible...
x86-64 (x86)
Time to research
The project works now btw
Unlike the code I used to look at in GMV, this project is readable
Still a mess, but I can tell what each class is meant to do just by looking at the name. Kudos for that
 
government motor vehicle?
good morning vietnam?
 
@HéctorÁlvarez The chances of your CPU not being 64bit is infinitesimal, but that's not the issue when building for x86/x64.
Unless you have a specific reason to change it, you should compile as AnyCPU to let the OS decide if your process needs to be loaded as a 32bit or 64bit process dynamically.
(Reasons might include a specific need for >3GB memory addressing, reliance on unmanaged 64bit dependencies, and so on)
 
11:41 AM
My CPU architecture supports x86 and x64 that's obvious. However the designer problem solved itself as soon as I created the new configuration and used it to build the project.
 
For instance, we discovered that if we load >500 pins on the MapControl in our app, our client crashes on OOM if compiled to 32bit.
 
I can confirm your i7-8700K is amd64 compatible
 
why wouldn't you compile it as 64 bit? Isn't it (relatively) costly to run a 32-bit program on a 64 bit system?
 
@Neil It's also relatively costly to run the exact same code as 64bit vs. 32bit.
 
11:42 AM
As I too have one. However, if you compile for AnyCpu, it usually compiles for 32bit
 
The key term is "relatively".
@LeeButler There's a "Prefer 32bit" checkbox in the build settings.
 
I believe 64b is just an improvement over 32b in terms of resource allocation.
 
if your system is 64 bit, and you're running a 64 bit program, there's no cost
Maybe you don't require 4GB of ram or more, but that's not the issue
 
Yeah but clients always seem to prefer 32 anyway
 
@Neil There is, in the sense that every pointer takes up twice as much RAM. Is this an issue for most programs? Probably not.
 
11:42 AM
I mean, it's only stuff like 16b that your CPU can't handle itself and need to be emulated that are relatively more costly.
What, twice as much RAM?
 
I've had issues where apps run 32-bit and don't work properly after some time, so run them x64 and they work fine, with no noticable performance penalty
 
well there you go.. if you're not compiling in 64 bits because you think you'll actually need more than 4GB of space, why worry about pointer size at that point?
 
How's that
 
seems the issue with memory is a moot point
 
The only real issue with x64 is you don't have access to the 16-bit subsystem, but in 2018 unless you're writing software for ancient hardware, shouldn't matter
 
11:44 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez Because a single pointer (say, the variable you use that holds a reference to your object instance) takes up 32 bits in a 32bit system, and 64 bits in a 64bit system.
 
I think applications still made in 32 bits are for compatibility sake
ideally for a 64 bit system, it'd be a 64 bit compilation
 
Office is recommended x86 because addons are mostly x86 still.
 
I haven't used office in about 10 years now
and 10 years ago only because my previous company used office
 
Which is stupid, but realistically there's no point in having Office x64 because the programs run so much like shit anyway that when you get to the point where Excel is using more than 3.5GB of ram it's entirely unusable anyway
 
@LeeButler Not really. Unlike other Office apps, Excel is the one app that routinely processes huge amounts of data.
 
11:48 AM
Oh right I get it.
 
I don't really use other applications, but Excel is really the only one that benefits from running x64, but it's so terrible at it it's just not worth bothering
 
Has anyone tried to use Chrome 32b?
Just in case we can stop the RAM infinite collection
 
Chrome has a 32bit build? How does that work
 
IDK if there's one, just pointing out.
 
Oh I suppose it's still infinite ram if you use infinite processes
 
11:49 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez that's genius!
 
@LeeButler Not infinite if you are restricted to 4GB. smart guy gif
I mean nobody has an exabyte RAM, but everyone has well over 4GB by now.
 
That gif is so SEO unfriendly
 
First result under "Smart guy meme"
 
I've never seen it by that name
 
@LeeButler Command smartguy learned
 
11:53 AM
!!smartguy
 
Anyway hey some PCs here only have 4 or 2gb of ram
And they run x64 windows because that's all we've got images for
 
uhh no thanks
 
why not?
 
11:58 AM
Imagine the spam
 
That's well above Dunbar's number
 
VS2019 will be released today I think
But with C#8 still in beta.
 
@JohanLarsson I've been avoiding the dogfood build so far because I really don't feel like messing up my dev computer.
 
not sure the number applies to discord, most people seem to join servers to never participate
 
VS2019 ooooooh
I can't wait for a new version of the buggy mess that is Visual Studio
 
12:07 PM
@JohanLarsson Yes, will be in 99%
VS2019 first public test build and C# 8.0 first test public build
 
You all go ahead and test the shit out of VS19 and C#8. I'll join in when it's stable!
 
How can I use something like HttpClient but with the option to load all JS?
 
@AmirNo-Family You mean a browser? You use a browser ;-)
 
I have been using the solution in stackoverflow.com/questions/2246017/… but Google's updated its website and it loads the content using JS
@RoelvanUden Yeah but using Selenium is expensive.
 
@AmirNo-Family Selenium is open-source and free...?
 
12:10 PM
I mean in terms of resources
 
Oh. Have you tried Chrome Headless?
 
yeah it's still time-consuming
I have to wait couple of seconds
 
@RoelvanUden So never then?
 
Is there any solution except for spawning a browser?
 
@AmirNo-Family Well it's loading the page and evaluating the JS... that's to be expected.
@AmirNo-Family Don't spawn the browser, keep it around and just open a tab when you need to do stuff :-P
That said, there was a .NET library that tried to emulate a browser (for JS exec) but I can't seem to remember the name
 
12:13 PM
I am really stuck :-(
 
@RoelvanUden Chakra engine?
 
@J.Doe Not that one, but Chakra might work for you @AmirNo-Family
 
ANyone played around with google cloud always free tier?
Just made an f1-micro instance...we'll how it goes
 
Why do you need to load all of the JS? It sounds like you're trying to render the page, so you may as well just use a browser anyway
 
Chakra can be build to lib (Windows/Linux/MacOS) and then P/Invoke func
 
12:15 PM
And yes, it's slow. Welcome to websites in 2018. Where everything uses int32.MaxValue JS files because NODE
 
Enlighten me though, what's so wrong with using a headless browser? @AmirNo-Family
 
Have any node_modules had any major security vulns yet this week?
 
Imagine I have thousands of Urls, I used to make requests simultaneously to it'd take less than 5 secs for all of them but Selenium does not support Parallelism (correct me if I am wrong)
 
But why do you need to load the JS?
*sniff snif* what's that I smell
 
12:18 PM
@AmirNo-Family Chromium headless does support parallel tabs. But thousands? Well, Chromium eats my RAM with just 10 so I expect that to burn spectacularly
 
@AmirNo-Family Use HttpClientFactory
And then chakra
 
Can you please give an example how I can achieve this? stackoverflow.com/questions/2246017/…
 
whatsaaaap
 
Use the API.
 
Use the API.
 
12:21 PM
API is not free
 
Use the brain.
 
Creating a browser to bulk translate is probably suuuuper against the TOS
Especially for commercial use
 
@AmirNo-Family So fucking pay.
 
lol it's going to be an open-source project..
 
I KNEW it smelt fishy
 
12:22 PM
and will be released for free
 
And what with that? Make place for google key for api and go
 
So don't translate with Google.
Or as J.Doe said, make a config var and let people buy their own keys
 
MS Bing translate isnt free?
 
I might have to try MS Bing
 
12:24 PM
Bing actually has offline translation. You might want to use that.
 
@AmirNo-Family Always try to avoid JS everythere it is possible. JS can spy you and deanonymize
 
Man, just when I thought you made sense for a change @J.Doe, you went full retard again.
 
It's a shame that HttpClient cannot evaluate JS.
 
He was doing so well
That's because IT'S NOT A BROWSER
 
+
HttpClient is doing even more than should
(with cookies etc.)
 
12:27 PM
I mean sure, do it with a browser, but don't be surprised if you get about 5 translates through before you get stopped by ReCAPTCHA
 
Then he come and will ask hove to break ReCaptcha 6.66
 
What you're trying to do is literally the reason ReCaptcha and similar systems exist
 
@J.Doe Eh, cookies are part of the HTTP spec so it supporting that makes sense.
 
Supporting cookies is ok, but enabled it by default is not
 
if so, how do people claim they can increase YouTube views
They don't use any browser instance
 
12:29 PM
Botnets
 
^
YT just counts IPs for hits
 
yeah I am not talking about View counts
I am talking about Viewed minutes
 
Let people in India watch your stupid video and pay $0.00001 for every hour
 
 
12:30 PM
That's LITERALLY how those work. It's not a joke.
 
Open like 20 videos and "watch" them all
As long as they're all in an active tab, it will probably count
 
Or better just use API and sent to google
>hey, i just watched all thing in 0.1 sec
 
Not sure how their player works, but if there is such an API, that'll work too.
 
You don't even need a person to do it. You can just automate the whole thing and spin up a bunch of low power vms and give them all videos to watch, and queue up a bunch more
 
Auto-scale using an amazon fargate cluster and off you go
 
12:33 PM
Or just buy botnet "actions" on TOR and be happy
RIP Freenet last alive market
 
mom look 1000 views. I am famous now
 
Edge will use Blink engine
Its a problem
 
I read that today. Now we have 1 standard.. and Firefox.. oh dear :-(
 
One webrowser, one exploits, one fuhrer
 
Hello!
Is it possible to inherit UserControl that I made in WPF that has XAML?
 
12:44 PM
My macros are looking splendid. I'm still questioning the controls I'm using since they are so different from the ones I'm used to with XAML, but it feels intuitive to use this tool.
BTW I skimmed through your posts.
This project smells like some sort of click bot, doesn't it?
 
me?
 
@Mr.Noob Why would you want to?
 
Don't use Bing for god's sake
No I was talking about the automatic headless browser
 
I recently replaced our calls to Google's TimeZone APIs with Bing's. They're better.
 
Are they? I run away from Bing like the plague, seems to be too localized stuff for America and doesn't work as well outside it.
 
12:46 PM
I have 3 userControls with same part in each one
 
Perhaps timezone stuff is fine as it's very specific data.
@Mr.Noob You can inherit UserControl and build your own if you wish. What we don't understand is why you made your own UserControl (Or that's what I assume).
 
@Mr.Noob So extract that to a separate control and have the other controls hold a reference to it.
Inheritance isn't the usual method of reuse for UI controls in WPF.
 
Wait isn't it?
 
what should I do if I need custom control in WPF?
 
@Mr.Noob Write a custom control, and have its template overridden in a style.
If you have three controls that have a shared part (a particular custom button, for instance?), create that button as a control, and then use it in your controls.
 
12:51 PM
I honestly thought inheriting a particular control was the way.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez did you land a new job?
 
E.g. if I want to make a custom dropdown I'll extend combobox
@Proxy Not yet. Most jobs here in Spain are shitty.
 
well similar to here then :P
 
@HéctorÁlvarez Inheritance is useful for code inheritance. But if you have a XAML-based user control and you inherit it, how do you override behavior? Can you change attributes in your XAML? Not really.
Inheritance is useful if you want to specialize a control (say, an ImageButton which is a Button), but if you just want to handle UI element composition (say, three Views which all have the same Title Bar), you should instead extract that title bar to a control and reuse it.
 
as far as I understand, UserControl is used to group multiple controls
 
12:56 PM
They tend to have one of the following:
1. Shit paycheck. Many companies argue even 2000€ over minimum wage (For an analyst).
2. Overwhelming requirements. E.g.: Over 5 years experience dedicated solely to a particular aspect, such as web backend development.
3. Freelance delusion. Be hired as freelance, but actually work AT LEAST 8 hours (usually more), be paid for 8 hours only, and work as a normal employee but they don't pay your stuff.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Oh right. Yes, I still rebuild the view, but the code is inherited. I though you made a new one without a reference to any other user control :|
 
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