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21:00
they've since been used for all sorts of things including the UK olympic pistol team, who until that was permitted had to train in Israel because it was illegal everywhere else they could get a visa
@drch You are brillant.
i read something that all these 3d printer patents are expiring
@JLott I don't know. Apply that argument to something else. "I think I should have the right to own a bomb. I just like blowing things up in my back yard and putting them in my trophy room" It's just ridiculous.
should be an interesting next few years
@akowalz What?
Half these guns we collect don't even fire anymore
21:01
@JLott that's the argument being made for guns here right?
I planned to buy a 3D printer a few years ago, probably should have done it
imma 3d print myself a wife
@JLott ok, applies to the firing range example.
maybe i can get through some visa loophole
We print about 15% of our stuff, rest is conventional turning milling.
21:01
@akowalz Bombs are not guns...
There are also 3D printers for metal leaving prototype/lab about now
@JLott Is it that different though? Seriously?
you yanks and your guns.
It is like a video game, see how accurate you can get, and there is no harm in doing that. @akowalz
honestly i dont really care cause we have a population crisis
21:02
Bombs cause quite a bit more damage... You can't really just test fire one lol
buddy of mine is really into sport rifle shooting
@ton.yeung Oh yea, I fully understand that hahah. It's like drug prohibition, doesn't work.
@TomW Clay pigeons? Fun stuff
his licence has lapsed because his club threw him out
@JLott no, rifle
@TomW You shoot the clay pigeon with a rifle...
21:03
not in my part of the world
clay pigeon shooting is shotgun
shotgun
^^
@ton.yeung I never said we should ban then. That would be idiotic! Regulation. I honestly don't know how much, but like make sure people with criminal records aren't buying them maybe?
if you can hit a pigeon with a rifle, you are a ninja
@TomW We use rifles or shotguns lol
@TomW Agreed
21:04
@TomW I have... many times...
@JLott percentage-wise?
@KendallFrey Low... but I have done it lol.
Also have with a sling shot
@JLott "There is no harm in me setting off a bomb in my own yard. I should be able to own them"
pigeon...the ones you fling like a frisbee from a hydraulic catapult
right?
@akowalz Ever hear of the guy with a nuclear reactor in his basement?
21:05
@akowalz If it truly does no harm then ok lol
@TomW AKA skeets
IKR?
What about knife collectors @akowalz?? That is also a weapon..
Well, this sucks... I've got to build a Content Management System.
We also collect knives.. which I guess means we plan on killing people with them.
@JLott You can use knives to cut rope and shit!
21:06
@akowalz I can use guns to get food and shit
and take down someone who is trying to harm my family
They are used for killing things and NOTHING ELSE
is the point.
there's a few things that need killing
people and animals
@akowalz I could probably start a fire with a gun lol
@JLott Guns are fine for hunting, but they aren't required for attackers.
@JLott you're being silly and you know it lol
ok ok ok how about this
@JLott where you went to school did you have health classes or anything?
21:08
@KendallFrey If someone is coming into my house with the intent to harm, they are going down.
@akowalz Previous comment was a joke and yes..
saints row: the third in new humble bundle
www.humblebundle.com
@ton.yeung I have. Unfortunately it isn't Model View Controller; plus it does way more and is cumbersome.
there's a reasonable argument that the tendency for US households to be likely to have a firearm makes it more likely that a determined burglar will go armed and shoot anyone they see
similar for cops vs perps
Funny thing though most people are killed other ways around here.... Last murder a girl stabbed her husband 43 times...
cops go armed because they have to assume that a determined perp will be
21:09
@JLott So how about instead of regulating them by government, gun safety and what not are emphasized in schools? I think reducing the gun culture is probably much more effective than just banning them, which won't work at all. Similar to drugs/tabacco
how much does Saints Row 3 DLC add?
in terms of fun
@akowalz In my hometown we were taught gun safety many times in school. This way when they are out hunting no one gets shot.
because @JLott and @ton.yeung I think you're right, regulation probably won't do as much. I jus think it's pretty terrible for society to have guns be such a large part of culture.
@ton.yeung Yeah, but even Joomla does more then I need it to do. I'm not even sure where to start to build such a beast.
I find the police attitude to firearms interesting
21:10
@JLott glad to hear that then.
@akowalz It isn't all of America lol.
here they've consistently refused to take firearms
@ton.yeung My office wants me to build one.
@JLott never said it was. But it's a significant portion.
@ton.yeung Unfortunately a lot of these Content Management Systems do so much and we want to really restrict our users.
21:11
about half of all police officers polled said they didn't ever want to go on duty armed
@ton.yeung My boss said build one...
@akowalz Regulating guns here would do nothing... All of the gun violence happens in the big cities.. Because some people there are insane and poor.
Which is probably why KY has so few laws
@JLott yea that's what I just said.
@ton.yeung Fixed :)
it's probably more an education/culture thing at this point.
21:13
@ton.yeung Yeah, tell me about it. Any thoughts to accomplish this? I don't think he will be happy if I just use DotNetNuke, Joomla, or WordPress when he really wants me to build one.
@ton.yeung My comment
@Greg dont build one
check out umbraco. its free and does a lot of the shitty stuff for you
@drch I don't want to build one, but when he looks at the source code he will clearly see that another company did it.
Why don't we just take out the gangs instead of punishing the innocent...
@Greg a carpenter doesnt build his hammer, he builds your house
21:14
@Greg boss is an idiot.
a cms is just another tool
@drch I agree, but my boss said "Build our office a viable Content Management System through MVC. We don't want any of the current offerings due to the amount of stuff it does do."
writing a cms is a collossal waste of time unless you want to end up selling the cms as a product. and even then...
@ton.yeung Yeah, next July
@ton.yeung going back to how education is really what we need to improve
21:15
@Greg so have an mvc frontend talking to a pre-built cms backend?
thats what we did on starbucks.com
sitecore backend
but the frontend app is a custom mvc application
@drch I've never used Sitecore, can you elaborate master jedi?
@Greg its just another cms, except more expensive and annoying
Alright, i'm out. This debate sucessfully chewed up the last 15 minutes of the day though, so thanks @JLott and @ton.yeung for the convo and the perspective.
@Greg check out the code for an open-source one, copy the parts you want and change the variable names
umbraco is free as in beer and speech
21:16
@drch Ugh.
@ton.yeung haha it's the root of everything! Education solves all problems man (exaggeration)
PEACE
@ton.yeung Yeah, any thoughts to accomplish such as task?
@ton.yeung Damn poor people... ruining everything for the rest of us and not even contributing to the community
As far as I know I have to create a series of web-site layouts, then provide a form that will fill it with default content, and allow the content to be modified and adapted throughout layouts with some other shit.
@ton.yeung WBS?
@Greg tps report
list of tasks :P
21:18
@ton.yeung Needing help is fine. Completely relying on the government is not.
gantt chart motherfucker, do you speak it
@ton.yeung @drch Okay. I'll do that.
@ton.yeung @drch This is going to be a rough project isn't it?
Ok, I need to associate a trigger with a control, but the control is inside my extended gridview. It can't find the control id. How do I make thsi work?
@ton.yeung I know.. We have created a lazy society.
@Greg not necessarily. i think the best case scenario is you treat the CMS as the content authoring platform only
CMSs get too up in your grill on presentatoin
but for content authoring, id rather them do it than me build it
21:21
People complain about not having jobs... Bull freaking crap... There are jobs, may not be the one you want, but there are jobs.
robust CMSs tend to have dynamic data models which are a nice feature but kind of a bitch to build up from scratch
My father cannot get people to work for him.
Okay, one of the requirement is to ensure site customization and content customization. But it looks like I'll be the one writing a majority of the default content; I just have to ensure the user selection inputs data to page correctly
@JLott I'm a reasonably intelligent 16 year old boy and every place I've applied at has turned me down
@ton.yeung yea possibly, but thats more arbitrary per document data structure
21:22
@ton.yeung $10 a hour... for a roofing job. It is something.
mongo would probably be a decent candidate tho
@Kian Keep applying. Don't get lazy.
@ton.yeung And this is the problem with society lol
@JLott Why? I'm getting far more relevant experience while I'm programming at home
@drch @ton.yeung The goal is simplicity. The user shouldn't know how to utilize the site. But it will become really professional. Without a lot of the overhead generated by current systems. Additionally they are looking for a more pleasant front end to essentially do the selection while the backend generates everything for them.
@Kian You are 16... you are not taking anything from the government lol
21:24
@JLott Apart from health care and a well funded education...
@JLott $10/hour sounds like poverty wages, if I just apply an exchange rate
@Kian You are still only 16 lol
@TomW It is not bad for the area
@JLott What's your point?
I only get $12 an hour
fair enough, I realise economics do not work that way
21:25
@Kian You can still give back to society.. You are getting an education for example, you are not just sitting on your ass doing nothing.
just had a post-work pub conversation about the difficulty of getting jobs
@JLott Then why did you say that I'm not taking anything from the government? And I'm not sitting on my ass, I'm learning about on edX and programming. How would getting a job enable me to give back to society?
what I said was that for a lot of the people who've never held down a steady job, the principle of trying->success hasn't worked out and it would be in a literal sense irrational for them to assume that's going to chance
@JLott you write code for $12/hr?
Is there a way to create a branch from where I am right now and revert master to a previous commit using git?
21:28
@JohanLarsson yes. git checkout -b mynewbranch
git checkout master
git reset --hard commitSHA
er make sure you add and commit everything i nthe branch
@drch this one creates a branch of current state?
Wow. RE earlier conversation about guns
@drch I am an intern
@Kian You will be paying taxes
rate of accidental handgun deaths: only has figures for two years out of ten, since the remainder are zero
git add -A
git commit -m "oh shiii"
git checkout -b mybranch
git checkout master
git reset --hard SHA
21:30
ok ty sir
@JohanLarsson have your changes been committed?
to upstream github i mean
you can do a force update on the remote master branch with git push origin +master
don't really know how much damage I have done, starts to look a bit ugly though
the + meaning force
hai errboday.
@ton.yeung yeah i should learn a lot more about git, not been using it for long and only know the ape-level stuff
21:32
@JohanLarsson feature branch and rebase for goodness
does checkout branch create a new if not exists?
git extensions, I'm a clicker
oh man command line it up!!
I look at keyboard when I type
@JLott I'll be paying 11% on national insurance which would go into my state pension, the NHS, and unemployment and disability benefits
Oh
like a pigeon
21:37
@JohanLarsson How many years have you been typing?
dunno, enough to know how to type I guess
@ton.yeung But but but how?
Yeah I can't imagine how that's possible.
I'm slow, like 35 wpm, gf types faster
Typing code isn't really the same as typing prose
21:39
@TomW speak for yourself. i code poetry baby
I got made fun of at work because I calibrate by briefly looking at the keyboard before typing
Still, I always assumed everyone just ended up getting a feel for where the keys are.
once every few sentences or so is usual
also, I don't remember where various symbols live
@SpencerRuport i have a feel, I look at the keyboard even when it is dark and I can't see it though
oh so it's more of a habit than a need.
21:40
something is wrong, dunno what :D
at this co i worked at, they renamed their main platform "SparQ" and for some reason it was a big joke so i bought a keyboard that was all Q's
cost me $110
big help on the ol typing speed tho
@ton.yeung yes
requires iis 8
bah, really?
f4u12
i think that it relies on iis for the websocket transport
@drch Have you ever seen the one that's like $2000 or something equally stupid
Where all the keys are little screens
@Kian i think ive seen something similar yeah
21:44
perhaps I should buy a dvorak and re-learn
i think ive only paid a stupid price for one keyboard ever but it was super nice
trying to recall the name
@ton is there an owin compatible websocket middleware?
btw, if you want to talk to signalr experts, check out the chat at jabbr.net
dev team is often there
This might be a dumb question, but from what I understand SignalR is supposed to allow you to use HTTP like a TCP socket. If that's true, will SignalR become obsolete with the introduction of HTTP 2.0?
@SpencerRuport signalr is a messaging bus over http using websockets, server sent events, or long polling
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl I'm alwyas here.
Um, no. His name is irrelevant...
@ton.yeung - Ah okay. So once it can be safely assumed that the client supports Http 2.0 (say some number of years after the spec is finalized) will it's usefulness disappear?
No need to be condescending. I was just trying to determine if HTTP 2.0 fulfills the purpose of signalr.
21:53
@SpencerRuport signalr is just a messaging bus. in theory, it could be written to use a tcp socket as a transport as well
not sure what in http2 would deprecate it
I figured out my bug, btw
intern fixed it. Yay intern!
@Pheonixblade9 and!?!?
@drch - apiux.com/2013/07/23/http2-0-initial-draft-released I was reading the section on Streams and Multiplexing.
and "Server Resource Pushing"
@SpencerRuport signalr is a higher level concept than that though. it handles sending messages to specific connections or groups of connections
it abstracts the idea of a transport and negogiates that between the webserver and browser capabilities
Ah okay. That's what I was curious about. :) Thanks.
21:56
in theory, you could have an http 2.0 compatible webserver with SignalR and it would be able to communicate with IE12 running the http 2.0 streams as well as IE10 doing websockets and IE6 doing long polling
all with the same code base
Gotcha.
So it's like the jQuery of browser sockets.
its a framework that lets you push messages while not even have to care if websockets exist (although its a lot less stressful on your server if they do)
i dont know if that simplifies to jquery for websockets :P
Well I have a better idea of what it does than I did. So thanks. :)
np
@ton.yeung hmm maybe not. the long polling isnt too bad, just that it has a timeout of 10 or 30 seconds, cant remember which
so you get useless reconnects
@ton.yeung from nuget or github?
no stable release for which package?
weak
hmm.. sounds like the owin httplistener might support websockets
if it does, youre in business
why self host out of curiosity?
yeah
i think IIS7+ will still let you use server sent events, which are still push oriented
not sure how robust the self host is. owin itself tends to be more reference implementation than anything else
@drch I had bad data in my DB that was not tolerated by my assumptions
it's good, means the code is stronger
22:12
@ton.yeung it should co-exist fine with your webapi app if you want it to
@ton.yeung adding another application to that web site could work too so you dont have to worry about cross domain
when you have a self contained application, you can run it as an application in a website. basically like having it in a sub directory
or just having the application in the web api web site
so / is webapi, and /foo is signalr
but yeah having 2 separate is ok as well. /api and /signalr for example
i BELIEVE so but not 100% sure
im not sure if its an application that belongs to an app pool or a web site
@Pheonixblade9 so wait - that thing you thought wasnt in the database was in the database?
yeah it can be a separate app pool
so one wouldnt necessarily keep the other one alive
they are as independant as 2 web sites, except they happen to share the same binding
peace out
22:27
@ton.yeung I'll write something out.
@ton.yeung But yes you are correct. Totally a stupid project.
@ton.yeung If I remember correctly allowing IIS to handle the congruent connections based on state can sometimes alleviate it. Otherwise you'll want to do something like this:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<configuration>
    <runtime>
        <legacyUnhandledExceptionPolicy enabled="false" />
        <legacyImpersonationPolicy enabled="true"/>
        <alwaysFlowImpersonationPolicy enabled="false"/>
        <SymbolReadingPolicy enabled="1" />
        <shadowCopyVerifyByTimestamp enabled="true"/>
    </runtime>
    <startup useLegacyV2RuntimeActivationPolicy="true" />
    <system.web>
        <applicationPool maxConcurrentRequestsPerCPU="20000" />
    </system.web>
@ton.yeung You'll want to put that in your configuration file here: %windir%\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\aspnet.config on the server.
fuck. another problem.
...?
@Pheonixblade9 to the internmobile!
lol, internmobile can only help so much
I asked him because he wrote the code :P
so wtf was the problem anyways
22:42
I have a uniqueness constraint on 2 fields. There were 2 rows with the same code, but different names. I tried to update the names. It worked on the first one, but blew up on the 2nd because at that point, the names would have conflicted
I have a theory that when working with db's it is easier to do things the right way. I have tried many different ways today.
interesting hypothesis
also think I need some beer carbs if I'm gonna last until 05:00 tonight
@drch are you coding anything now?

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