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7:00 PM
so what i am saying is that you can give your command to a second person, give them the command to give you the command you want, you then terminiate yourself
 
ok so i do TheBigStream.Read(what goes here? - this is a byte[])
 
i might add that you cant selectively erase memmories its all or nothing
 
@KendallFrey Sorry I had to go and do errands. Basically, I need to make text size with the control, because as you can see, when the control has less space
The bottom line of text is removed
 
WPF?
 
7:07 PM
kendall, after reading that wiki what i am saying is very similar to Von Neumann architecture, the only difference is that I am talknig about changing the executing program itself
what VNA talks about is programs writing programs
I am saying programs writing themselves
i might be wrong but from what i read thats what VNA sounds like
 
A self-modifying program? So, is it a VNA in the sense that the program is in RAM and can be accessed by the program itself?
 
I think I found my problem with my gauge. I'm doing a Value="{Binding Value}" and Value is looking for a double, however the bound Value is an int? ... how can I get that int? as a double? @KendallFrey I think you told me to make a converter like 2 days ago... dunno how, if that is still the case
 
yeah i think so
 
@KendallFrey Yeah
 
@klut Google wpf binding converter
 
7:11 PM
That's one thing that pisses me off about C# when you supply a default value for a DependencyProperty as a double then you have to write 5.0 instead of 5
Why is there not an implicit converter when it comes to initialising them?
 
You don't have to. double d = 5;
 
Oops, I'm getting confused
There
 
the yellow box is a program in a chip, it generates code for another program which contains code for another program, then the left chip programs the right chip with the code
then the right chip programs back the left chip
giving the left chip the inner program
 
I still don't see what is preventing you from writing a program on Chip A from Chip A. You can do that with a normal computer. What's the difference?
 
harvard architecture ftw
 
7:18 PM
the problem is that the current computer is "fixed" with its vocabulary
 
Any ideas?
0
Q: Is this linq Include chain formed properly?

Travis JSituation When using an .Include chain inside of my repository, I noticed that I was getting strange results - mostly that the values queried that were being returned were from the wrong fields (name would end up in description for example - but in the database all the values are correct, they o...

 
a chip able to program itself makes it virtually limitless because its capacity isnt fixed
 
@Nadal WTF does that mean?
 
to put it simply, what makes you better than the computer is that you can learn and self teach where as the computer cannot
because your "vocabulary" isnt limited you can learn and selfteach
 
I still fail to see why a chip can't program itself. A regular computer can.
 
7:21 PM
computers are programmed with a set of instructions to follow, strict set of instructions and all they do is create combinations of those instructions to program themself or other programs
 
@KianMayne ViewBox may be what you need.
 
but what if you program them to have an infinite vocabulary
then your computer is limitless
 
That requires infinite space.
What does that have to do with embedded programming?
 
Also how could that possibly work?
 
Or whatever this is.
 
7:22 PM
true but that isnt the issue, we have more than enough space, tons of space but we give the computer limited vocabulary
the vocabulary and programming languages are just grouping sets of instructions for pc to follow
 
Is the vocabulary too limited to store data?
 
Just use context-free grammars. We already have robots that learn while going forward.
 
All reprogramming the chip requires is the ability to write to memory.
 
All of my vocabulary stems from 26 letters.
 
kendall true that but the instruction set itself is limited
 
7:24 PM
@Nadal - It is approximately not limited.
 
if the program can create new instructions for itself then its not the same
 
@Nadal - Programs can create new instructions.
 
travis how?
 
You don't create new instructions. You simply place instructions in memory.
 
@Nadal - Through a learning process.
 
7:26 PM
That annoying moment when you forget what language you are in and don't know whether to type int or var.
 
kendal i am not 100% sure on this but i believe that there is a list of instructions and there combination makes a computer
 
actually @TravisJ is right, there's a thing called microcoded instruction registers for certain risc machines
where byte code is decoded by the processor using a mini FSM that runs off of a tiny code chip that can be modified using code
 
@Nadal - "Computer" is so vague! Why not just say "I think that metal and resisters might be able to ride a bike." This is all conjecture from you.
Get some facts.
 
@TravisJ wat
travis what was that sentence, please explain
 
What is preventing you from, say, changing an add instruction to a subtract instruction within the currently running program?
 
7:29 PM
@KendallFrey nothing
 
nothing
 
@HanZ - That was in regards to the belief that instructions and their combinations make a computer.
 
@KendallFrey though most microcoded architectures are harvard architecture, so that the current running code can't change the microcoded instruction set, and usually the microcoding instructions are set on an eprom that needs to be flashed to be rewritten
 
Then there is nothing stopping you from reprogramming the current program.
 
BUT a computer does not know if it is trying to go over a hill and not succeeding due to lower motor torque that it needs more power
 
7:30 PM
It can be programmed to learn that though.
 
if it can learn that its not achieving its goal then it can program itself to try something that should work
 
@KendallFrey microcode is often on a separate set of memory that running programs can't change
 
@Nadal Consider what computers do at a basic level
 
@Nadal That's a different problem altogether. If what it's doing doesn't work, do something else. Repeat. That's the basic machine learning algorithm.
 
it it does something better, be more likely to do this more often
 
7:32 PM
Code essentially ends up as assembly, binary data, there's no vocabulary
 
that sounds more like what im saying
 
In a way, it's numbers and mathematics
 
@Kian - In a basic sense yes, but not when there is an evolutionary algorithm involved.
 
what prevents humans from creating skynet?
 
@KianMayne what do you mean by "vocabulary"?
@Nadal in general? lack of funding.
 
7:34 PM
@HansZ I was following on from this
 
lol skynet? wtf
 
where can i upload a picture that'll give me a link but i don't have to signup to be a member
 
^ good place
 
thanks @HansZ
 
7:36 PM
computers do have a vocabulary
it's called x86
or x86-64
 
Anyone have any experience working on forward proxies (or similar) from a secured zone, to a DMZ?
 
or whatever ARM is doing
or crazy VLIW things
 
it would be cool to have an android army :P
 
@HansZ But not in a sense that human language does
 
but in the set theory of what "vocabulary" means
 
7:38 PM
ok well I guess no one is getting anything done in here today
 
the vocabulary set together with constants and memory locations resolve to the x86 (x86-64) grammar
which is resolved using a DFSM
which is implemented using transistor logic
all you need to build your very own processor
 
Wow.
I finally wrapped the content in a view box
This is one of the reasons why I don't mind working with things like WPF
Fixed straight away
 
@HansZ i know what transistors do but do you know how they work internally, mechanical aspect?
 
Semiconductor magic.
 
@KendallFrey quantum mechanics
so basically yeah
 
7:48 PM
@Nadal I did MITx
 
@Nadal , of course I do, I'm a computer engineer
 
Which was an electrical engineering course by MIT if you hadn't heard of it
So yeah I understand digital logic and memory
 
@HansZ im studying comp engineering we do logic and stuff but never go into physical aspect deeply
so it would be interesting to know
 
basically transistors are two diodes that face each other, with the size of the diode controlled by Vgb
 
oooo
 
7:50 PM
diodes only "allow current to pass one way" (given a certain voltage range), so two diodes facing each other allow no current to pass
but once you lower the diode's threshold voltage by changing the gate voltage, you force both diodes out of normal mode and into saturation mode
allowing current to pass proportional to Vgb
 
ooo so you change the balance and impower one more than another giving net direction of current
 
sort of
 
how do diodes work?
 
the way that the gate is set up, if you amp up the gate voltage, you amp up the capacitance
 
:)
 
7:53 PM
because dielectric constant of the gate is usually much different than the bullk, you get buildup of sigma
 
pings kendall
 
(sigma is average surface charge)
 
o
 
that surface charge between the source and drain terminals actually creates a region of conductivity
so you're adding an channel of charged (usually) sillicon between the two diodes
 
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
7:54 PM
i'm doing a bad job of explaining this sorry
 
so its you polarizing one side which creates a "pull" force on the charges
that allows your charge path to breach through one of the diodes's "filter"
 
and the way that this happens is by lowering transport potential (which happens because shut up it's quantum)
okay so a transistor has 4 inputs
SDGB
 
3?
 
Source, Drain, Gate, Bulk
 
Base, Collector, Emitter?
 
7:55 PM
Source->Drain are your "input" and "output"
@KendallFrey that's cmos specific, SDGB are general terms
gate is your control input
bulk is your "ground"
ground is in quotation marks because in certain transmission gates B is tied to another transistor's drain, so it's weird
now S touches B, B touches D, B touches G
 
sounds like ripple counters lol
 
so we always assume Vds > 0
and in CMOS it don't matter that much because we can just spin the transistor around and get different drains and sources
now SB and DB form virtual diodes
GB region stretches over the channel between SB and DB
    ____G______
|S|              |D|
---             ---
 
o, I think I got it, thanks a lot !
 
everything in the middle is bulk
 
we have only heard of the 3 leg transistors
im going to go nag to my prof and ask him to tell us more about the 4 leg ones :P
 
8:00 PM
lol Bulk is usually assumed to be tied to Vground
 
btw you did well explaining
 
so G forms a capacitor with noneglible capacitance because of its large area of contact with B
 
o so bulk must be part of a bigger logic then? kind of like flip flops that have their output inputted into another flip flop's input
 
S |> B <| D (diodes)
but the capacitance between GB causes the diodes to become weaker
 
I don't suppose I could do that with normal diodes lol?
 
8:02 PM
as Vgb goes up
@KendallFrey actually if you had variable threshold diodes, you can create a cmos transistor
 
i.imgur.com/TAJHD.jpg needle.SetBinding(Needle.ValueProperty, "Value"); how do I know which Value is being bound. the one in GUI or the one in GuiRecord<T>?
 
they actually do have variable threshold diodes, usually implemented using some sort of cmos nfet
 
mosfet?
nvm those are the motor drivers
 
because when I did lineSeries.ValueBinding = new PropertyNameDataPointBinding() { PropertyName = "Value" }; I changed GuiRecord<T> to "Valuest" and the lineSeries line broke when I tried binding to Value, but when I did needle.SetBinding(Needle.ValueProperty, "Value"); it still worked.
 
well technically it's a mos nfet because with cmos you need nfets and you need pfets
 
8:05 PM
got it!
thanks!
thats enough absorbing for the day lol
 
lol pfets are weirder
because the negative capacitance drives electrons away from the surface
leaving behind holes for electrons to fall into
as opposed to electrons
and that also works because shut up it's quantum
 
anyone? :(
 
@klut Just ping everyone in the room, that'll get their attention
and you banned ;P
 
haha yeah. smart. im pretty desperate at this point. causing me issues for 3 days
 
I haven't read it yet
I'm struggling to make sense of what you're doing
 
8:13 PM
GuiRecord<T>.Record is a collection that holds all my data that is being stored real-time
so about every 250ms a new value is being put into that collection
 
OK...
 
I'm trying to take that data, and set my RadGauge Needle to that value, effectively making it move with the real time data
So, I used the same methods as when I created a RadChartView. I have the RadChartView working, it updates everytime Value/TimeStamp is updated.
so now that I'm trying to do the RadGauge, it doesn't get updated real-time, even though just about everything is exactly the same between the RadGauge and the RadChartView
 
Hi
i have a question abt vb.net datagrids can i ask
it here
 
where is the sticky when you need it?
@jayp Ask your question, we will help you to the best of our ability or ignore it and start talking about silly things
 
@HansZ got an answer on SO before Telerik's customer support team stackoverflow.com/questions/11671319/… hah. still doesn't help me.
 
8:24 PM
I remove bunch of rows from my datatable and then bind the updated datatable to the datagrid ..but the changes dont reflect
 
I try to help people sometimes, then I realise that I've got things I need to do
 
I have a datatable that is binded to a datagrid
 
do you bind using databinding or datasource?
 
datasource
 
do you redo mygridview.DataSource = mydatatable?
 
8:26 PM
gets in before the tumbleweed:30
 
yes i do
 
hey guys. Did anyone created a shared model in MVC before?
like one that gets inherit on all models because the information is used on all of the application
or website
 
@Ammar - I implement a temporal soft delete system by inheriting an abstract base class
 
I just don't know how to approach this problem without pasting code in all the models
I information that I need to show on all the pages. Think like how username is displayed everywhere on stack overflow
 
Just keep in mind you only get one class to inherit from, unless you chain, which isn't really advisable.
 
8:30 PM
well .. at the top write of the actual SO maybe
 
@Ammar - SO is open source, why not go see how they do it
 
well I am going to make a SharedModel and inherit from it
@TravisJ I guess I should. It is an MVC site after all
 
@Ammar - It is possible not everyone knows how to access that code though ;)
Have you found it yet?
 
Just found this in my code:
private static void updatePeriods(DependencyObject d, DependencyPropertyChangedEventArgs e)
        {
            TimetableContainer c = (TimetableContainer)d;
            c.TimetableGrid.Columns = (int)e.NewValue;
            updateUI(d, c);
        }
 
8:35 PM
Why the hell am I not binding?
 
@TravisJ I will just find other open sourc to look at I guess.
 
You didn't hear that from me
 
:)
Tutorials with no source code at the end make me rage
 
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer how about buggy tutorials with incorrect source code at the end?
 
8:45 PM
People who copy paste code from a tutorial with source code make me rage
 
Buggy codes with incorrect tutorials ? Is that college ?
 
@RyanTernier lol
I just want to see where the code is used
 
EF is failing =/
 
@klut Sorry dude, I had to leave work. Got it fixed yet?
 
@TravisJ The worst kind of problem
 
8:47 PM
It really is. I have no control over how it fails because it fails from a single line of code.
 
what is the error?
 
Hey
 
hey!
I just met you
 
Lol
 
a logical error
 
8:48 PM
@KianMayne ?
 
when I was grading for my uni class we'd sometimes see tons of people with the same buggy, misspelled code. The first time we noticed it we assumed one of the TAs wrote this code as an example and people copied it. Turns out it was buggy, misspelled tutorial code from a well known c plus plus reference site that everybody googled and just copied code verbatim
 
In the above code, I'm setting a value through code, rather than simply binding to the DependencyProperty
 
everybody who used that code got points of for not taking into account edge conditions
 
@KianMayne So what's the problem?
 
@HansZ man it is so tricky to use online tutorials in college. The line between cheating and legit use is very thin
 
8:50 PM
@LewsTherin Nothing, I'm just being silly
 
@KianMayne Oh ok :P
 
@LewsTherin noppee
 
@KianMayne Why not use MVVM for your scenario instead of code-behind? Small app?
@Everyone If you like bug trackers, check out FaultTrack
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dcomproductions/faulttrack-a-modern-desktop-bug-tracker-for-net-de
 
@DavidAnderson Umm no.
 
our rule of thumb is, if 5 different people with basic knowledge of the language were to sit down and code this and come up with roughly the same code, then you can copy/paste this from somewhere else
 
8:52 PM
@klut :( It's weird
 
@KianMayne You don't like MVVM or? Just curious.
 
No I just don't feel that it has any particular place in this
 
@HansZ good rule.
 
@LewsTherin not too sure what to do now lol
 
The code I write generally comes out to separate the view from the code, without me having to think about it
If I were to really consider and think around MVVM it would just waste my time
Example: The timetable container which allows 3 main parameters: rows of the timetable, columns, and the data
 
8:56 PM
@KianMayne not been following the whole conversation, but just wondering - as opposed to? "I won't use MMVM, it's not worth it, I'll just code in a way that's more confusing and less maintainable" - which sounds like the way that some of my colleagues tend to work
 
MVVM is much more complicated, but in the end you get a really nice decoupled and extensible application that's easy to maintain. I wouldn't say it's a complete waste of time though.
 
If I have a timer running and the elapsed event has fired. Is that fired on a a different thread? So if I am in the middle of executing code in my main thread, when is the event handler executed?
 
@klut I wish I could help you. I don't know why ItemsSource is throwing that exception if it is null already
 
Trying to make that so it would work with any view would just complicate things because there's no other useful way to display it
 
Anyone good with linq? stackoverflow.com/q/11676513/1026459 I cannot figure out why I am getting bad data from this Include.
 
8:57 PM
@Justin It's executed on the synchronization context that the timer is on (eg. whichever thread you instantiated the timer)
 
Ok, what if I am in the middle of executing at that point, is the event handler queued up to be called after that?
 
Moth landing on beer can makes surprisingly loud clang
 
@Justin If there is code already blocking the thread when you try to execute the handler, you could get a deadlock until the code is finished
 
@DavidAnderson This is what I mean: how would I implement this kind of thing in XAML
for (int day = 0; day < DayRange; day++)
            {
                for (int period = 1; period <= Periods; period++)
                {
                    TimetableCell cell = new TimetableCell();
                    cell.Height = Double.NaN;
                    cell.Width = Double.NaN;
                    cell.Style = (Style)FindResource("EmptyLesson");
                    Period location = new Period((DaysOfWeek)day, period);
                    timetableCells.Add(location, cell);
                    timetablePosition.Add(cell,location);
 
9:03 PM
That doesn't really help much.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/683863/wpf-items-collection-must-be-empty-before-using-itemssource
May help
 
@LewsTherin Okay, so I'm looking at my RadChartView which is working. I make the call to add an axis like this:

var lineSeries = new LineSeries();
lineSeries.CategoryBinding = new PropertyNameDataPointBinding() { PropertyName = "TimeStamp" };
lineSeries.ValueBinding = new PropertyNameDataPointBinding() { PropertyName = "Value" };
lineSeries.ItemsSource = (chart.Chart as GuiAnalogQueue).Records;

So, what I want to see is if Value is being taken from GUI class or GuiRecord<T>. So what I did was I changed the Value property in GuiRecord<T> class to Valuet. Then I tried making a chart
 
What the hell happened to my profile image?
@klut Is your RadView in the same app as the Gauge?
 
@KianMayne What is TimetableGrid? A custom control?
 
yes
 
@DavidAnderson Oops! No it's a UniformGrid. It should be timetableGrid
 
9:09 PM
@klut Ok don't set RadView, ignore that for now and do it for the Gauge and see it works. This is for debugging purpose
 
@LewsTherin do you mean RadChartView?
 
@klut Yeah that, sorry
 
They are in the same application, however I only use one at a time
So its either I have a ChartView or a RadGauge
I can have 10 ChartViews going at once if I wanted. all of them work correctly
But it never works for the RadGauge
 
Hmm. I want to bind to a property that's like
public int DayRange { get { return EndDay+1-StartDay; } }
How would I do this?
 
The code is literally the same aside from setting up the line series
 
9:12 PM
@klut Ah I see now
 
Hello guys
 
The weird thing is, you are doing something similar to me :) But I am not using the same component
@KianMayne I would assume something like {Binding DayRange} if DayRange is a property of what the DataContext references of course.
 
But I was told that it has to be a DependencyProperty
and binding to a straight up property hasn't worked for me in the past
 
I haven't looked into DependencyProperty but from what I understand, but the binding should still work as any other property. It depends if your property needs another level of indirection.
It could be {Binding SomeObject.DayRange} for all I know
 
@KianMayne You can bind to any normal CLR property, but the property that has the actual binding (eg. your control) must be a Dependency Property
 
9:19 PM
@DavidAnderson ...What?
 
I didn't get that either..
 
Do you mean a DependencyObject?
 
<Button Command="{Binding MyCommand}"

Works because Command is a dependency property. MyCommand however can be just a normal CLR property. If Command were not a DependencyProperty exposed by button, then it wouldn't work
 
@klut I saw the question you posted on SO. It looks like the RadialGauge doesn't have ItemsSource which makes it difficult to bind to Value right?
 
@LewsTherin that what it seems like.
 
9:21 PM
@DavidAnderson Oh right I understand
 
because I figure if I bind to a collection, it'll know to grab the values out of the collection. BUT NOPE! WTFFFFFFFF WAI?!
bind ItemsSource to a collection, and Value to a Value, it'll grab the value in the collection as opposed to its parent class.
 
So for example
 
@klut Uh?
 
public static DependencyProperty startNumberProperty = DependencyProperty.Register("StartNumber", typeof(int), typeof(Numbering), new PropertyMetadata(updateUI));
[Category("Configuration"), Description("The number that the numbering control starts with.")]
        public int StartNumber
        {
            get { return (int)GetValue(startNumberProperty); }
            set { SetValue(startNumberProperty, value); }
        }
In the code of the Numbering control
Then when implemented
Wait no
 
@LewsTherin huh?
is my concept of setting ItemsSource wrong?
 
9:25 PM
@klut Lol didn't understand what you posted there... but does your Needle have an ItemsSource?
 
nope, just a ValueSource
 
<local:Numbering Height="45" VerticalAlignment="Bottom" DockPanel.Dock="Top" OrientationBind="Horizontal" EndNumber="{Binding ElementName=root, Path=Periods}" StartNumber="1" NumberingMode="Numbers" />
 
"used for playback"... i don't want playback right now!
lol
 
Yeah I don't think that's what you want
 
Never mind. Let me sort out my examples
 
9:30 PM
@klut At these stage I am confused lol. If the Needle is what needs the data, why are you binding ItemsSource
 
yep. and that is for playback
I've tried to do

needle.ValueSource = (chart.Chart as AnalogGuiQueue).Records;
needle.StartPlayback(); with no luck
 
But it wasn't throwing an exception?
 
nope
 
Email support
 
I'm manually typing winforms code instead of using the designer
I feel dirty
 
9:41 PM
Why are you doing that?
 
@LewsTherin trying. I tried to do a needle.Value = (chart.Chart as GuiAnalogQueue).Records[0].Value; and that gave out of bounds exception. which i guess should be right?
 
I need to dynamically switch between several usercontrols
 
@klut Whoa, if Records is empty I don't see how the Needle.ValueSource would work
Add some data into Records and see whether it works.
 
your image just changed again lol
 
@HansZ WPF is awesome for that.
@klut Really? What is it back to now?
Oh why the feck is that happening :O
 
9:45 PM
@LewsTherin I'm 4 weeks into my 5 week project building it in winforms, so I'm gonna stick with that
 
@LewsTherin I just got a maintenance message?
 
@KianMayne I didn't...
 
@LewsTherin Just thought the two could be related
You're blue now
 
@HansZ Fair enough.. Shouldn't be too hard to do it in Winforms. But it would look nasty - well not nice..
@KianMayne Yeah, probably why. The pink was hurting my eyes anyway :P
 
@LewsTherin that image I posted shows the classes I'm working with and the Value I'm binding to Needle is GuiRecord<T>'s Value. because if I change GuiRecord<T>'s Value to Valuet I can still Value="{Binding Value}" and the code still runs, but if I run it on ChartView, it crashes saying there is no Value (because i changed it to Valuet.
 
9:48 PM
Visual Studio just crashed...I don't know how much I've lost
 
@LewsTherin turns out the method for removing a control from a container is
container.Controls.Remove(Control control)
 
@KianMayne It usually saves a back up.
@klut You were doing that in the XAML, so it is valid. You are not accessing the array. But for the needle, you were physically accessing the array hence the exception.
 
I wish I had something newer than a Pentium 4.
 
@klut Fill Records with some data before you access Records.
@HansZ Looks a bit ok.
@KianMayne I have an I5 3570k, but it doesn't support HT :(
 
People get confused when it comes to my computer because it's the 3.2Ghz model
but it is pretty slow when I want to do something like run photoshop or visual studio
 
9:55 PM
I can't live with that.
 
@LewsTherin It has 4 cores :L
 
Well I found out what was wrong with my code. Pretty simple actually, linq is broken.
well, EF to be more precise
 
If somehow I managed to earn some money, I'd buy this
 
@KianMayne Yeah, if it had HT it would have had "8".
 
@LewsTherin Well not really
You'd have 4, and 8 virtual threads
 

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