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8 hours later…
8:24 AM
Would making Ok(()) optional be insane ? This would have to be generalized, for example with an optional default value for enums when returned from functions.
 
8:40 AM
@DenysSéguret I think there have been some RFC attempts to make this implicit Ok happen. None was accepted so far, AFAIK
 
I understand the hesitations. I'm afraid of magics and hiding things too
BTW I clearly don't want anything making the function prototype less explicit, including annotations and stuff like that
 
@DenysSéguret Like this you mean? ;-)
 
I see I wasn't subtle...
(this being said, I think his experiment is still interesting)
 
Yeah indeed. I don't think the author expects the crate to get actually used.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:25 AM
Has anyone else noticed anything weird going on with their SO rep?
I seem to have jumped from 22.8k to 24.8k overnight, with no explanation in the reputation tab.
 
@PeterHall question upvotes got sneak-changed to +10, up from +5
 
Questions upvotes are now worth for 10 points
which i don't have any, sshh
 
@SébastienRenauld oh!
I thought it might have related to this other blip:
Actually it probably is related. I likely got those badges from previous years due to my questions there
 
And I too jumped from 298 or 299k to 300k overnight
 
10:48 AM
You guys ask too many questions
:-)
 
@SébastienRenauld Or... we ask the good questions, that everyone upvotes?
 
@PeterHall just like for answers, the upvoted questions aren't necessarily the good ones. I'd say upvoted questions are the easy to understand ones, the ones that people find familiar
 
@DenysSéguret Heh probably
My highest voted question is: stackoverflow.com/questions/10548170/…
And my top 5 are all quite begginer-ish Haskell questions
The top question probably should have been closed...
 
@DenysSéguret And that's the tragedy of SO, the accepted answer more often than not not the right one, the reputation does not reflect one's understanding or knowledge in any topic, and the most upvoted questions are not just the easy-to-understand ones but also the ones asked at the appropriate time of the day, isn't it?
So, instead of raising the rep-gain of the questions, these should've been the problems the platform try to tackle.
But then again, who am I to make suggestions what the new leadership should do..
 
"the accepted answer more often than not not the right one"
you're a little excessive here IMO
 
11:03 AM
@PeterVaro you've got the wrong user persona in mind
SE isn't going for quality; SE is going for a low barrier to entry for new users and for quantity
Also, I think it should become clear who is interested in buying SE with the 2 latest features to be built
 
@DenysSéguret (you can't have "quote" and "reaction" in the same comment -- yay for another unfixed feature on SO!)
@SébastienRenauld you could be right actually..
 
For those who missed it, MS teams is now integrated, and so is github authentication
 
I've several times suggested that questions should not impact reputations. Another reason is that it makes it super violent to asker when we downvote their bad questions, especially when they're newcomers
 
the signs point at MS being a potential buyer
@DenysSéguret imho if they want to fix that they should pair-program-ish a newbie's first question. Have a dedicated "New user first question" queue
 
@DenysSéguret I guess it depends on the tag, and again the time of the day and complexity of the question. But I stand by my statement -- there even was a super cool caricature about this a few years ago: always check the next answer :)
 
11:05 AM
present them with a "Your question is being checked, just to make sure you've asked something awesome. If not, somebody will make it better for you"
 
@SébastienRenauld any source for that ? Because the SE team always had a MS technical culture and more integration in what they know doesn't hint for me as a desire to be bought by MS
 
it does give a bit more work to the community in terms of queues, but it'd massively help the user
@DenysSéguret it's the combination of github auth and MS teams that hints at it, not just MS teams
MS teams is a blip on the radar on its own
 
Both solutions (no rep, and pair programming) are better than the current update.
 
the current update does nothing
it won't stop a bad question's author being downvoted into oblivion
it only means that a single upvote now offsets 5 downvotes, up from 2.5
and even then it's on a scale most users don't care about
they'll still see their question at -15, think SO is a bunch of twats, and leave for reddit
 
11:36 AM
@DenysSéguret omg no again
1. they didn't consult anyone
2. I don't have 2 yet
 
@Stargateur Are you a product owner or something? ;-)
 
@SébastienRenauld completely agree
 
Here is my honest take on this. Sara is going to fish for another job after acquisition and wants to look like she's a trailblazer. SE is looking to get acquired. All those changes are a bunch of hot air to hopefully attract the disgruntled again.
 
but this mean down vote question will have no effect on reputation - -
it's a very bad idea
I just cannot figure out how can anyone that has spent more than five minutes moderating this site come to the conclusion that increasing reputation for the questions will actually result with more quality questions being asked. I am genuinely baffled. — Dalija Prasnikar 13 hours ago
well, I still think downvote should remove at least haft of what upvote give
Note that the rep cost for having your answer downvoted is still far less than the rep gained from having your answer upvoted. Does that policy make sense to you? And, if so, why should questions be any different? — Cody Gray ♦ 16 hours ago
@CodyGray To be honest, no, it doesn't make sense to me. If it was my decision to make, the rep cost would be symmetric -10/+10 for both questions and answers. — wim 16 hours ago
DESTROYED
 
12:02 PM
@Stargateur LOL
 
oh cool, I just got a Feb 2014 answer accepted. It's not a good answer.
 
12:20 PM
@DenysSéguret O.O wow
 
12:41 PM
Twitter bot makers are lazy as fuck. Every week I get followed by a few accounts, all having a rather attractive (but decent) woman as avatar and a description in the line of "I'm here to meet people" or "I want to find somebody to love". And no content, nothing else. This isn't more credible than a Nigerian prince story :\
 
12:56 PM
@DenysSéguret I once rename to Stargayteur on Skype...
 
@Stargateur What ? Why ?
 
@DenysSéguret I don't remember why, for fun I guess
Some very very strange people contact me
 
My meta answer is at +205
 
@DenysSéguret And still you have ignore many thing :p
 
that was the hard thing. I had mentioned other problems in a few comments, and somebody asked me to make an answer from a comment, which I did by focusing on the point which nobody was willing to openly address
 
1:36 PM
I got from 13'960 to 16'464 reputation
 
 
1 hour later…
3:01 PM
15
A: New Reputation Calculation - was the community asked?

GhostCat says Reinstate MonicaAnother addendum to the answer by JC007B: We didn't solicit feedback from the wider community on this change. We have a robust roadmap and we are selective in asking the community for feedback on specific releases. In other words: SE Inc., on its own, solely, decides what goes on its prod...

the real fun is that I did this for the CoC also work for the Rust one
I follow my CoC I don't care of anything else xd
guess we really need a new SO
 
YOU MONSTER
 
 
4 hours later…
7:03 PM
Edits...
 
7:30 PM
@DenysSéguret People..
 
 
2 hours later…
9:13 PM
is there any RFC that allows shorthand arguments for rust closures? .filter(|string| string.contains(query)) vs .filter($0.contains(query)) (whereas $ followed by the input closure argument index represents the type without a name)
Coming from a swift background I think the rust variant is pretty verbose...
 
I don't think .filter(|s| s.contains(query)) is less readable or much, much longer than your version -- but at LEAST it is explicit
being explicit and using less visual noise makes the code much easier to follow
 
IMO $0.contains is more readable than |s| s.contains
but it's a matter of style
I am used to the swift way, since the two languages have a lot of similarities, I expect there is a (maybe even rejected) rfc of this way of dealing with closure input variables
 
it is only readably to you, because you got used to that notation and not the other
having a special character to indicate something is always a problem -- we even have disagreement on whether we actually need the @ for variable binding in pattern matching
 
Ok, didn't encountered pattern matching yet though
(just reading the rust ebook atm)
 
@J.Doe there are a lot of similarities, because Rust is the main influencer of Swift -- because of their histories
@J.Doe I suggest you to read the entire thing first, use Rust very, very frequently, and getting used to it
before you think it would make sense to bring notations from other languages into it
-- don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is bad that you are thinking about it
but at this early stage where you're only getting familiar with the basic concepts and sytax
your brain is always telling you how you would solve a particular problem in your previous and/or favourite language
and that's completely normal, I believe everyone is going through that phase
doesn't matter how many languages you speak already
 
9:23 PM
I think it makes to ask for an rfc of making shorthand closure arguments, since I have seen rfc's of things swift has and rust doesn't (the must_use annotation for example: swift has default warnings for unassigned function return values, named parameters, fields in traits (swift has them)). I want to see the Rust's communities reaction so I can better understand why they implement things and why they don't
BUt on the other hand, maybe it's to low level
A well, you are right
I should just read the book :P
 
@J.Doe we have #[must_use]
also, I always loved this figure from the book:
fn  add_one_v1   (x: u32) -> u32 { x + 1 }
let add_one_v2 = |x: u32| -> u32 { x + 1 };
let add_one_v3 = |x|             { x + 1 };
let add_one_v4 = |x|               x + 1  ;
 
About the #[must_use] annotation, please see my comments: stackoverflow.com/a/50437107/7715250
Maybe I was not clear: Swift always gives an error about unassigned return values
 
which generates a lot of noise
(not the warnings)
 
In Rust we need to annotate it explicitly... I don't see any benefit from it, regardless if I read the book or not. I program fulltime in Java and an unassigned return value is most likely a bad thing
 
It is most certainly not :)
you could and many scenarios should choose not to use the return value
 
9:28 PM
Why not? If a function returns something, it is likely you want to DO something with that result right?
 
if it is a Result for example -- you don't have to use the must_use the compiler generates a warning for it anyway
because that's how we handle errors
so if you don't use the return value you are doing something wrong (likely)
 
Yes ok, no exceptions is better than java's exceptions :P
(I mean the error handling in general)
Yea ok: so I agree a compile warning should be arise when an unassigned/unused value is returned from a function which returns a result.
But I think it should be turned ALWAYS
 
I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with you
 
Like in Swift. Really, in Java I have to fix bugs because people (and also me) just forget to use the return value. If the return value is not important, don't return anything haha
Well ok, I really disagree with the fact no warning should be shown for an unassigned return value.
 
@J.Doe give me an example
 
9:32 PM
If that's the default. I want to opt out explictily if the return value does not have to be used (pretty rare)
Ok. fn add(one: &i32, two: &i32) -> i32 { // compute }
Pretty standard function
No compile warning when not used....
But clearly a programmer mistake when not used!
Because the ONLY thing that function does do is adding two values
And that's essentially what function have to do right? Do one thing good. If it results in a result (no Rust's result) and it returns it, it should be used.
 
that's a good example -- although pretty much an edge-case, because it is quite literally an operator-function
but think about it, what if you are mutating something
and you don't care about the return value you only care about the mutation itself
think about Vec::pop for example
that's a better example because it is a slightly more complex method
 
Ok, so it pops out the first/last index right
That should be annotated that the return value should not have to be used
That's a great example of a method that returns a result that does not necessary have to be assigned/used
 
It returns an Option
not a Result
if it would be the latter it would be a warning if I would ignore it
 
Ok, when I mean a result I do not always mean a Rust's result sorry :P
I will be more explicit about it
 
Anyway, I think it all boils down to interface design really. If most of your functions have side effects, it is a better idea to leave the decision to the caller, if they don't then it is better to leave it to the callee
 
9:39 PM
Swift's function that does pretty much the same is defined here: developer.apple.com/documentation/swift/array/1641390-remove (@discardableResult mutating func remove(at index: Int) -> Element). Its a pretty rare case using the @discardableResult, in this function it is exactly what we want though
Ok
Well I just want to say: when I write a function that returns something, my intention is very, very likely the caller should do something with the return value
And so can I speak for the developer at my work which program in Java. Maybe it is completely different in Rust but I don't really think so :P
 
Right, I leave this to you at this point.
 
Anyway
I will continue reading the book
 
:thumbs_up:
 
Ok, bye :)
 
10:32 PM
hey @Stargateur
362
Q: Is this really what we should consider "unwelcoming"?

Ansgar WiechersQuoting from today's blog post "Welcome Wagon: Classifying Comments on Stack Overflow": According to those of us deeply involved here and familiar with Stack Overflow, about 7% of comments on Stack Overflow are unwelcoming. What did some unwelcoming comments look like? “No. As it stan...

 
11:06 PM
Gosh, what happened here?
3
Q: How to access the function in main.rs which has been written in a file in different directory in rust in same source file

Jawwad TurabiI want to call a function inside a main.rs file. I have made one directory name "library" inside the same src folder as main.rs exist. src/main.rs mod library; fn main() { println!("{}", library::name1::name(4)); } src/library/file.rs pub mod name1 { pub fn name(a: i32) -> i32 { ...

Three answers and three upvotes to a.. not good question if I may say so.
 

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