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12:01 AM
It gets tricky here, because we seemingly do not want accepted answers to be pinned to the top, yet that won't change. :[
 
12:12 AM
@BrianCampbell I can understand the both of you.

I, too, often find myself googling about stuff from a domain I don't know well only to hope I can copy some code (usually from SO). And in those cases I am slightly annoyed when the first answer isn't what I'm searching for. But then again, I'm also slightly annoyed by the fact that I always need to scroll over the question. I'm surely not the only one completely ignoring the question in 99% of cases, right? (speaking about the case where I'm searching for something. When I answer questions, I do read it :P)
But I also agree with Shepmaster in that I wouldn't edit the accepted answer to make it "good", just to help Google-visitors. That's unfair in multiple ways: for example, the one who wrote the second answer (non accepted, but good) will now get way less internet points for his efforts, while the one who wrote the accepted (but bad) answer does get points just because they got lucky.
Getting new people to participate on SO is important and one of the main reason people do that is to earn internet points.
I mean in the case in question, the best solution would clearly be to just change which answer is the accepted one, right? But no one can do that, not even So-gurus like you two. Why is that by the way? I guess there are plenty of meta posts discussing this...? Why not letting users with a gold badge of a tag change accepted answers?

That's my take on that.
 
@LukasKalbertodt Changing accepted answers is even less likely of happening. :/
It's been thoroughly discussed on Meta. That right is to the OP and the OP only.
 
12:30 AM
@E_net4 It just confuses me, as in many other parts of SO "it's never about OP", but about the tens of thousands of Google visitors later. But... I'm tired :P I should go now. If you have a link with one of those discussions, could you send it to me?
 
12:47 AM
@LukasKalbertodt Yeah, I ought to be off myself. Here's some: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/294815/1233251 meta.stackoverflow.com/q/253752/1233251
 
1:46 AM
not sure if my view is warranted, but in most cases I think a new answer should be posted with the clear notice that it's targetted for a future version, with the relevant solution to the question in the post and potential links to the right, updated resources for additional reading
old answers that have worked shouldn't be changed in a way that conflicts with the answers' intent, it often means you should write your own
 
 
2 hours later…
3:35 AM
@voyager don't forget to use rustfmt to format code and use <!-- language: none --> to prevent syntax highlighting on error messages
@voyager also adding notes linking to specific other answers reduces the ability for better answers to bubble up. I'd advocate for just "check out other answers"
 
4:06 AM
@BrianCampbell FWIW, I ain't mad. I know that this is a preexisting contentious topic.
@LukasKalbertodt I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who skips the questions when I am searching O_O
@Unihedron I agree, but then the problem becomes — how do we get those newer, better, but non-accepted and lower voted answers in front of people's eyes?
 
 
1 hour later…
5:16 AM
@Shepmaster I think the key is that we're all looking for answers. If the accepted answer is horrible, then people who didn't benefit from it and are logged in could downvote it. There's really no reason to change the accepted answer because it worked for the OP before. people would look at the next instead if it doesn't work for them. there are even badges encouraging good answers to be created even after one has been accepted ("populist").
 
 
2 hours later…
7:27 AM
@Shepmaster: For what it's worth I agree with your take on edits. If a newer/better answer is warranted, then I'd start by pining the author of the top answer to see if they are willing to update it (or make it community wiki).
If the author does not act, then a new answer is warranted
and maybe a banner on the answer to clearly identify that it's a pre-1.0 answer.
I would even recommend posting the new answer here, on the chat, so that the regulars can go over it and speed up the polishing part. As a bonus, once the answer is good, it should quickly accumulate upvotes and float toward the top (hopefully taking 2nd spot).
I think that a combination of "outdated" banner on the 1st answer with a good 2nd answer should be good enough for drive-by users.
 
I never understand why accepted answer is always on the top
 
 
1 hour later…
8:45 AM
This article is interesting medium.com/@tibotz/…
 
They finally updated the cargo documentation \o/, doc.rust-lang.org/cargo
 
@E_net4 Interesting. But almost all people participating in those threads (especially the second) do think that the current situation is bad. Many say that the accepted answer shouldn't influence sorting.Here is a thread with more "keep accepted answer" opinions. But still... seems to me like many from the community want to change something
 
9:08 AM
@LukasKalbertodt Yep, it's what I was referring to last night. Although the community seems to prefer unpinning accepted answers from the top, this was simply declined.
 
@E_net4: Maybe we (the community) should just push harder?
 
@Stargateur: I'd rather have the ability to supply custom variables than a hardcoded "COMPILED_AT" one :) — Matthieu M. 4 mins ago
this is not what I said in my first sentence of my first comment ?
sorry remember I'm a bad english speaker
 
@Stargateur: It is, and I am agreeing verbosely :) It seemed clearer than just a +1 on the comment.
 
ok that what I was thinking but I was not sure
 
9:26 AM
@MatthieuM. I mean they will eventually change something if a huge part of the community wants something. Maybe we could propose something for these special cases. Like: if there is an unaccepted answer with more than twice as many upvotes as the accepted one, gold badge users can vote on ... sorting the non-accepted answer to the top. Or something like that?
2
 
@MatthieuM. Well, we can do that. Even though it's been done countless times.
 
I really don't see any good reason why accepted answer are on the top
that mean the OP vote count more than other vote ?
 
@Stargateur Obviously, yes. OP has a need, if an answer fulfills it, OP notifies it.
 
@LukasKalbertodt I do believe at least one variant of that has been proposed. The problem with giving weights to the upvotes and accepted answers is that no one knows what these weights should be.
 
well, I don't agree, a OP can signal that "his" problem has been solve is ok, but I don't agree about put this answer on the top
 
9:34 AM
@Stargateur one of the greatest arguments is that votes are subjective, whereas accepted answers are not as ambiguous.
As in, people vote answers for more reasons than "it worked for me".
It could mean "this is a nice answer", "this is useful, although it doesn't address the question exactly as stated", or "@Shepmaster wrote this answer, so it must be good!".
 
Well, accepted answer is useful, personally I don't look question where there is an accepted answer, but still, SO is to build a database of Q+A, put a bad answer in top because it's has been accepted is stupid because that will not put the best answer to the top
 
@E_net4 Do you imply that sometimes Shepmaster writes an answer that is not so good? :p
 
question belong to the community not to the OP
 
@Boiethios I was implying that people might indeed upvote just because it was written by, say, Jon Skeet.
It's usually a safe upvote, but it doesn't necessarily mean "it worked for me", or similar.
 
for example, lundin in C got like 80k rep but sometime say big bullshit about C, note that even when we tell him his mistake he don't care because in "real world" we don't care about standard ;)
 
9:43 AM
@E_net4 Sure, I was kidding
 
and that why shepmaster regulary say, to check his answer
 
 
6 hours later…
3:57 PM
Oh! A justinas just answered the last question.
Am I unreasonable in getting so excited when a user I had never seen before jumps in and answers question in [rust]?
 
Does anyone know of a list of #Rust2018 blog posts? I'd like to have a list with links and most importantly: a very short summary (a couple of bullet points).
If you don't know of such a list: do you agree with me that such a list would be helpful?
 
@LukasKalbertodt: Most get posted to reddit, so I'd guess if you check the posts for the last week you'll find them all. On top of that, you'll also get the non-blogs (some people posted directly on reddit, instead of posting a link).
 
@MatthieuM. No I don't think so. I am happy about every new user to Rust ^_^
@MatthieuM. Sure, but we don't have a quick summary there.
Reading all those blogposts and remembering everything is... exhausting :D
 
@MatthieuM. Unreasonable, no, but they are my competition ^_^
@E_net4 haha, we got misled!
*& is almost exactly equivalent to nothing. — red75prime 52 mins ago
*& != &*
 
Yeah. :x
Took me a while.
As for Rust2018, has anyone thought of an awesome list for that on GitHub?
 
4:18 PM
@LukasKalbertodt: Oh sure, I was merely thinking that if you want to make a list and tally the votes, you should have a lot of materials on reddit (not sure if it's exhaustive though).
 
4:37 PM
@E_net4 Exactly what I had in mind...
Ok I wrote a comment on the GitHub issue @Shepmaster linked (thanks!). If the community team doesn't think it's useful... then it's probably not :P
 
> Hello awesome humanz :heart_eyes_cat:
Nice.
 
4:52 PM
Yeah, I try to say more nice things to internet people who do nice stuff. But I fear it will sound ironic or lose its value when used too often. Whatever.
 
@LukasKalbertodt Text-based communication is hard and fraught with peril, right jerkface? /s
^_^
 
@Shepmaster "fraught with peril" ... I honestly haven't those words before :P (yeah, I looked them up). Still a lot to learn.
 
Well, it sounds like you're a cat-person talking to humans. But you're talking to Rustaceans, which are more like crab-people.
 
But on topic: Yeah, I noticed that many people in the Rust community go the path of "overly positive in text text-based communication" in order to make absolutely clear how they mean something
@E_net4 How do crabs speak? Like lolz spek is cat right? So I guess the crab clicks with its body and claws?
 
@LukasKalbertodt The crab does that fearlessly.
 
4:59 PM
:D
never get's old
 
@Shepmaster What's this GC attached to me? I don't need it.
 
"losing"
 
Dang it! I used the correct "lose" further up! I was so proud only to destroy everything a few messages later :<
 
5:42 PM
I'm glad cargo-bloat exists
 
Hmm, intriguing. I suppose that could be a fair use case for trait objects.
Clap your hands, folks.
 
5:55 PM
@E_net4 thats a big reason that... something in the std lib uses them
was it errors
or was it display formatting
prob display (& println, etc.)
cause otherwise the code bloat was gigantic
 
6:07 PM
@Stargateur "so I can easily spot what all my threads are doing."
 
that what I think (fuck I don't like english)
so it's indeed a xy problem
that what I thought ! ^^
 
There you go!
 
In Ruby I would modify the argv[0] entry — did you mean ARGV? I wasn't aware that this would change anything outside of the process. Searching for this functionality seems to be difficult, do you have any links so I can learn more about that functionality of Ruby? — Shepmaster 17 secs ago
work "a little" in C ^^
well it's not standard
 
@Stargateur "A thread is NOT a process," — it is in some platforms ;-)
 
well not in rust ;)
 
6:14 PM
@Stargateur Sure it is, on Linux / pthreads
I mean, the OS implements processes and threads the same
and threads are "lightweight processes"
ARGV[0] = "Cow"
STDIN.gets
 
I tried that Ruby program, and couldn't see the name change
 
try ARGV[0][0] = 'C'
note that I don't know code in ruby ;) try to code the equivalent, change the value of the character not the pointer argv[0]
 
Seems to indicate you have to call specific OS functions
> # For earlier versions of Ruby, you can use
# $PROGRAM_NAME = "sleeper"
# or
# $0 = "sleeper"
 
6:19 PM
@Stargateur Needs more UB.
 
> PR_SET_NAME (since Linux 2.6.9)
Set the name of the calling thread, using the value in the
location pointed to by (char *) arg2. The name can be up to
16 bytes long, including the terminating null byte. (If the
length of the string, including the terminating null byte,
exceeds 16 bytes, the string is silently truncated.) This is
the same attribute that can be set via pthread_setname_np(3)
and retrieved using pthread_getname_np(3). The attribute is
likewise accessible via /proc/self/task/[tid]/comm, where tid
@E_net4 yeah it's totally not safe ;)
 
@Stargateur Try argv[0][3] = '!';
 
I try different thing when I saw that this was possible believe me ^^
it's was very funny to see the output of htop
15
A: Change process name without changing argv[0] in Linux

WayneThe differences between invoking prctl and modify argv[0] are: modify argv[0] changes information in /proc/$pid/cmdline invoking prctl(PR_SET_NAME) changes information in /proc/$pid/status That means you will get difference name of your process issuing ps -a and ps -ax. If you expects same p...

 
6:46 PM
Who even owns the memory of argv after you set it
 
@Shepmaster You can't access invalid memory if that memory is never invalidated. </finger-in-forehead>
 
Is argv a thread-local, even?
how does it work with reading/setting it from multiple threads
 
... Why would it be thread-local?
 
i mean, I'm not the one that wants to change argv to track my threads
 
argv is entirely up to you. You can change whatever you want but don't do out of bound (ofc)
 
6:52 PM
computers are terrible
 
@Shepmaster I'm pretty sure I read that in a tweet at least once.
 
argv variable that is given in main is not thread local
 
@Shepmaster O never mind, it was actually "Computers were a mistake." My mistake.
 
5 upvotes already. I swear that is getting bigger all the time
 
@Shepmaster Aaand here's mine. :>
 
7:02 PM
jeez
> adding more clarity for those who found themselves confused
ORLY
 
well, the answer is, why the fuck not don't you use name when building it XD, know as RTFM
 
@Stargateur so much anger
 
I don't like bad documented API, but rust std is one of the best documented API
Note that I allow myself to be more "angry" in a chat that in comment
 
Oh, that's nice. "RTFM, U FPOS!!111one"
 
RTFM of free(), ;) — Stargateur 10 hours ago
cough cough
smiley change everything
 
7:16 PM
@Stargateur It sure does :-(
;-)
 
fun is not allowed!
 
Just wondering how "Srneyrff Pbapheerapl" looks like. Ok, done.
 
7:34 PM
@E_net4 what
 
@Shepmaster ROT13
I liked Jonathan Turner's blog post. Rust isn't that much of a "systems programming language" anymore.
 
I like not-yet-awesome-rust‌​, it hleps with my main problem with programming :P
 
Hah, machine learning and data science. Of course. :)
I will be talking about that in my planned Rust2018 post.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:03 PM
So I'm making a Registry.pol parser, as in not-yet-awesome-rust, and I'd be gracious if you could send your C:\Windows\System32\GroupPolicy\{Machine,User}\Registry.pols my way (iff they don't've sensitive information) for testing :)
 
@набиячлэвэли that's not suspicious
;-)
 
@Shepmaster It does sound like it is, but I couldn't phrase it better :v
 
11:15 PM
@набиячлэвэли mine only contains 8 octets ;)
 
That's a good testcase actually
@Stargateur Congreggulations, you just caught a bug!
 
@набиячлэвэли oh already ? XD
 
@набиячлэвэли If you are implementing a parser, may I suggest large amounts of fuzzing?
maybe quickcheck / arbitrary as well?
 
@Stargateur Yeah, the header is 8 bytes, so this is the only thing it can be (and I double-checked, the hashes match :))
@Shepmaster who's that
@Shepmaster those are hardly words, much less ones that make sense to me
 
@набиячлэвэли ooooh, good
AKA "throw lots of bytes at my function and make sure it always works"
you can guide the bytes from a corpus of examples
it generates those bytes, specifically
 
11:27 PM
okay, I'm slapping quickcheck onto it, then
 
quickcheck / arbitrary are good for the same thing at a bit higher level
 
Although I don't know what I'm supposed to use as condition
Because the simplest non-error case is 8 bytes
Maybe just parse(&xs); true?
 

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