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00:22
wow optional as
I know, right ...
I can't say I have a ton of experience that makes this somehow valid but I REALLY like swift
I think it's an amazing language
This language is ridiculous. labeled break statements. fallthrough
I KNOW
all this stuff is like everything that I always have to write myself
I've been programming for a good 8 years or so
I feel like I want to read every word of every chapter because there's so much magic
Did you see the labeled loops so you can break and continue more explicitly!
00:25
yah
YOU CAN DEFINE OPERATORS
This stuff it has is all sort of magics
ridiculous
like I can make += specific to my class!
insanity
BRB recording 2 more things.
I don't want to hate on the party, but other languages have had this stuff for a long time
00:26
Awesome!
Millie -- That's why I said it's probably not valid
but .. I haven't been able to use those other languages for iOS apps!
yeah, that's true
though I'm using c# for iOS apps :). I'm very happy to not be using objective c
Millie what languages can you think of
i'm going to take a serious look at swift though when i get the chance
00:27
The things I am impressed with isn't so much that stuff but using ranges
like ranges in a switch statement
Johnston: Scala, C#, Julia
I had a hard time with Scala
never heard of julia
My biggest problem with Scala and this is nothing against it
What is Julia?
I just don't like the JVM
It's more a problem with me
julia is a pretty powerful scientific language
00:28
I have used C# and I don't think it compares to this language at all
it's fairly underground, but has a good sized community too
(based on my 3 weeks w/ C#!)
I guess you could say I'm an expert
haha
i can agree with your dislike of the JVM
Well
I always work with Java devs. And Java and the JVM I always think of huge debug logs
and it's more PTSD on my end
00:30
I have 3 years of professional C# experience. It's definitely my most fluent language, and I love it. I do have some bones to pick with failures in the type system.
I didn't like Java
I hate Java
at least w/ Android dev
I have friends who do c# but it's a microsoft only thing no?
so much so that you can't ask me why. I hate it that much.
00:30
It was really suffocating
well, technically it's MS only
but then there's the mono project
I avoid MS as much as possible for whatever reason. I am not sure
and Xamarin took that and ran with it and built something that lets you build native OS X and iOS apps
I've had bad jobs in the past.
And it mainly had to do with MS and Java
I am a little bit scarred
00:31
If I type enter too quickly on a switch statement my whole system crashes
one of these days I want to work outside of an MS shop
this is twice now ... ahhh betas
ewww
lol nice
Well don't be such a quick writer of Swift
Don't be so Swift
check please
00:32
Ha!
My only hope is that this language becomes available outside of writing ios and mac stuff
I know, I was just thinking that
because this would be a great language for say web development.
It totally deserves to
someone might port it
anything over Javascript
00:33
haha.
JS needs to die.
My day job is JS guru
JS and JAVA BE GONE!
you write JS for work Johnston?
00:34
i do not envy you
I wrote a major website that you probably have used a couple of times
I might have to learn android for work ... cuz they're short in that dept :(
it's like being asked to build a civilization and being given a piece of paper
haha what's that site
hahaha
I mustn't say
lol why not
Android's a valuable skill to have Logan
I wish I knew it better
00:35
Eh. your analogy is a good one.
Yea, I started doing some stuff trying to get ahead of it and I just didn't like it that much.
haha. thanks Johnston
I think it'd be a useful skill, but I just didn't like the dev environment
@MillieSmith because this convo is being google indexed
00:35
It shouldn't take me 2.5+ hours to get set up w/ a hello world
how about I never got setup
was it eclipse? runs
@Johnston Do you know that because you wrote google?
I just kept getting errors
Me too, I added a button and I had to edit 5 files
00:36
@Logan yes I wrote google. The whole thing
I knew it!
and yahoo
They boxed you out early on and now you write Apple apps for revenge!
I am least proud of my latest work.
bing
third crash in a row.
00:37
damn
my playground hates switch statements?
skip that chapter.
I'm not trying to switch, I've already got a couple
my playground is ok with switch statements for some reason
I'm trying to unpackage complex enums
Yea, it's been fine with all of them up to this point. Same playground already has a bunch. Maybe it's just overloaded and I should start a new playground w/ less to process
00:38
oh well theres your problem
haha
Ok, new file is working!
My last one has a ton of functions cuz I was trying to get a bunch of examples.
I need to revise it for you first.
ohh cooooool
Well I still have to record these two ones I wrote
So I will BRB
gchat if you need me
Alrighty
well i'm out
good talking to you guys
See ya
01:19
Doesn't a room for this already exist?

Lounge<Swift>

For all you ambitious swift programmers out there
01:33
@DemCodeLines I guess it does
But this room is where it's at
in Lounge<Swift>, 1 min ago, by DemCodeLines
How would I start a "playground" in Xcode, as mentioned in the Swift tutorial iBook?
File, newfile, playground
or cmd+n
@DemCodeLines Did you find it?
No, I downloaded Xcode just last night and the only options I see are objective C files
@Logan I don't have a "Source" tab under OS X
01:43
That's weird ... Are you sure you opened Xcode 6?
Mine says 5.1.1
How do I get the latest one then?
Yea, go to finder -> applications -> Xcode 6 Beta
You downloaded the .dmg and installed it right?
No, I downloaded off the app store
If you downloaded off hte app store, you definitely didn't get 6
I can guarantee it.
One sec ...
There's a link to it and a bit of instructions
So I have to pay $99 and become a registered iOS developer family member in order to download Xcode and develop (even if I am not submitting anything to the app store)?
01:56
Yes - to get the beta - but you can code with xcode off the app store with out the dev code
And I'm coming from developing for WP, where I get all the tools and only need to pay $20 for Store account, and that also only when I need to submit the apps.
But it's pointless because I want to use Swift
this is like the ios - have to wait for the off. release
02:10
sigh
So basically, being an "Apple Developer" is useless
The actual valuable thing is "iOS Developer Family"
SFX
SFX
02:54
Yay a Swift chatroom!
@DemCodeLines Do you mean only iOS is a profitable platform to code for and not OS X with its 80 million users? Or what -_-a
@DemCodeLines No you can develop for Mac for free. You need to pay $99 to have access to the betas, to publish to the App Store, or to test iOS apps on iOS hardware.
@SFX In that case, Microsoft has a far more friendlier developer program.
Also, I couldn't care less about the "iOS is more profitable, so more restrictions" argument. It takes a snap of a finger to destroy all the good that you have.
SFX
SFX
Personally I gave up on Microsoft after they kept introducing new tech for C++/COM only, leaving .net a second-rate citizen and forgetting about cool stuff like WPF/Silverlight.
XAML is WPF, but better
SFX
SFX
On the Apple side I love having access to the full OS feature set through Cocoa. No more awkward .net<>Win32 bridges to go through.
Plus, when you develop for WP, chances are you won't have any trouble since WP supports just about any and every mainstream language.
SFX
SFX
03:03
Microsoft doesn't even dogfood .net for any of their own major apps except Visual Studio. That doesn't instill a lot of developer confidence and leaves you feeling like a 2nd-class citizen like I said. Whereas Apple make all of their own apps in Objective-C+Cocoa, even monsters like Final Cut and Logic. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
I'm pretty sure WP apps, made by Microsoft, are written in C++ or C#
The only reason they introduced JS/HTML is to convince devs to develop for the platform.
SFX
SFX
You can edit your messages :) Just press ⬆️
danke :)
I'm pretty sure Microsoft has started using WPF in its projects.
which implies .NET
but I'm basing that mostly off of look and partially off a WPF book I read part of
SFX
SFX
@MillieSmith IIRC only Visual Studio is built in .NET/WPF (which is impressive.) Office and everything else, even the built-in applets like Notepad and Calculator are still in Win32. I don't know about the Metro side of things.
LOL! Thanks for that Flappy Swift link!
@SFX Metro is mostly the same languages you see in VS: C++, C#, VB, JS/HTML
03:50
Np.
Hm. that's interesting if it's true SFX
Also, I didn't know VS was made in WPF. Now that's amazing.
@SFX Why would you rewrite entire Office in .NET, when you have working product of that scale? It just doesn't make any sense from business perspective.
Considering how difficult WPF is.
thankfully when they don't know how to do something they can probably walk down the hall to the WPF creators and ask them what to do
haha yeah
SFX
SFX
04:00
@MarcinJuraszek What about smaller things like Notepad/Calc/Wordpad/Paint though? Why not make them in .net and tell the users who develop for your platform "Yes, we trust our own tech enough to build the bundled OS apps in it."
probably the same reason. Why would you make someone work on just rewriting the same app, just for sake of rewriting it? At the same time, he can work on some new feature
I don't know what the actual reason for that is though
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It just leaves .net developers feeling like they're standing behind in the line, specially when they keep introducing newer APIs like Direct2D for Win32/COM first. For me that made .net feel like something you had to "graduate" out of before you could play with the big boys.
it's just my thoughts
hmm
there is a lot going on with .NET now imo
all the Roslyn stuff, asp.net vNext, movement around F#
SFX
SFX
I haven't been in touch for 3 years so maybe they have improved now.
.NET Native
SFX
SFX
04:04
Ooh
and probably much more I didn't remember
anyway, I joined this room to ask about exceptions :P
I couldn't find anything about exceptions in swift
does objective-c have exceptions?
or it's just iOS-thing not to have exceptions, and swift just follows it?
SFX
SFX
17
Q: Is there any way I can catch assertions in Swift?

golergkaIt seems that Swift doesn't have C#/Java-like exceptions and uses assertions instead. However, the book says that in production environment, they instantly crash the app. Isn't there a way around it? What about unit tests, how can I test that a certain function asserts that it gets a correct inpu...

oh, thanks! will read
04:45
SWIFT HAS ALL
 
1 hour later…
05:53
Hey
Hello
Have u installed yosemite?
No, I want to wait for the bugs to get worked out.
This is myonly computer system right now
I m not getting from where can I download that
I got the redeem code
Any idea how to proceed now?
Not sure
surprised it's not more clear
05:57
oki
 
4 hours later…
10:12
I got the answer
It will be under Purchase tab in appstore :)
 
4 hours later…
14:23
Back to it
14:45
Hi
Does anyone know how to use arc_random in swift ?
15:19
I just used it and it worked:
var someInt = arc4random_uniform(100)
@Johnston
In playground?
yup
@Logan
Is it giving you an error?
Yes
Use of unresolved identifier 'arc4random_uniform'
15:28
Maybe you should open a new file, or your error is elsewhere.
Video is uploading. Your functions will be in part 2
I'll try restarting playground
Nice, I'm finishing up some stuff w/ classes, then I'll do the second half of functions :)
Can't wait to check it out
I'll send the link once done
How do you want me to credit you? @Logan
15:47
Can you put a link to my github?
Ok sure. What's that link?
github.com/loganwright
 
5 hours later…
21:04
Nice Swift video tutorial youtube.com/watch?v=c8BGQ3CfPBs
 
2 hours later…
23:31
you guys peeing your pants after apple announce swift?
There is pee absolutely everywhere
I managed to make it to the bathroom ... barely
I did not

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