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19:00
I have a 10.5 American size
lol
shoe sizes are not relevant. NEXT.
Welcome to the Stack Overflow Town Hall Chat
We're just here to get to know the candidates and ask questions regarding the candidates views on moderation that may help in voting.
A few notes about the format:
The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.
Candidates, please use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)
@AdamDavis Moderators are akin to ambassadors; they should serve as examples of what the community on SO should be, and their actions, public or private, should be reflective of that.
(if you don't, I can't protect you from @TimStone)
user50049
@RebeccaChernoff Would it be alright if I ask a few questions first? I need to do a push, and once I do that, it needs my full attention.
19:01
@RebeccaChernoff Do we need to repeat our questions, or can they just answer the ones we already asked? (At least the ones that weren't here yesterday)
When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.
We will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.
@MichaelMrozek i dont know the prev Q's
With that, I think I've got all my initial messages, so I open the floor to y'all. Who has a question to start us off? (:
@MichaelMrozek no, this is an independent chat
19:01
@MichaelMrozek oy...
too complicated otherwise
@RebeccaChernoff: The reply is on the right... =)
candidates can do that themselves if they want I guess
@Neal check meta for the digest link
Let the games begin.
19:02
Q: There are 20+ candidates and 4 slots. Why should I elect you instead of someone else? What do you bring to the table the others don't?
Hopes not to fall in the open floor.
@TimPost go!
user50049
@BoltClock If elected, you and I would be the only moderators in our time zone. Do you have any ideas on how we could promote Stack Overflow in SE Asia?
@AdamDavis moderators promote the site through their actions. Anything that makes it a better site implicitly promotes the site
user50049
I travel to Singapore frequently.
19:04
Q: Are you aware of the implications the role will have on your current mode of contribution, and how do you intend to adapt your mode-of-use (i.e. in terms of planning daily rounds, or on-the-fly handling as and when)?
user142162
Q: @genesis and @minitech : Being two of the youngest candidates (under 18), do you feel that there could be age discrimination towards yourselves that could hinder your ability to moderate?
Q: All of you have amassed a fairly large amount of reputation. If you are elected, how are you going to balance your time between posting answers and moderating?
@AdamDavis (I'm not a candidate, doesn't have to be in the digest) I think promotion is not a moderator task ... moderators are for internal affairs.
@TimCooper Sure there could. I think however, that I would be able to handle that.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ I do not plan on posting as much. But when It comes to it I believe that if I see a great question that needs answering, i will post. otherwise i would stay on with mod duty
19:05
@TimCooper Age discrimination? For sure. However, I don't believe it would hider anyone's ability to moderate. I don't intend to start any fights with anyone, and I'll show people that age is no problem by making good moderation decisions.
@AdamDavis Moderator's don't promote, that role is already filled by others. Moderators keep the site nice-n-tidy.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ Handling moderator duties would be the first thing I would do.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ Moderator duties come first. My current actions lean mostly towards editing, etc (I just moved 100+ entries from the ASP tag to ASP.NET or ASP-CLASSIC for example). However, the pursuit of rep is not important to me at this point (as stated in my nomination), so moderator duties come first.
Why was the Yearling badge a good requirement for nominations, even if it was later withdrawn?
@MrDisappointment A mix. would mostly be doing rouns in the mid day Eastern time, but at other points I will moderate as well.
19:07
@MrDisappointment As it stands, I spend most of my time on the site performing moderation-related tasks, so it would not affect the overall way I use the site. If anything, it would make some of the things I do more efficient, because I would not need to bring in another moderator to deal with items. I keep generally regular hours here.
@random I don't think it was a good requirement, that's why it was removed
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ My time for answering to questions will not change, but moderating will not become my predominant task.
@MrDisappointment I don't think my contributions would change massively overnight - I think I would probably carry on most of the things I do, but transition, by learning through observation how/where the new tools would be appropriate. The end result would be a shift away from the tasks which can be handled already by the community (which I've been doing already) towards the tasks that only moderators can handle
@TimPost (cc @AdamDavis) Aside from what @StuThompson said (which I agree with), I can only think of spreading word of SO via social media, and in my school, for now. I don't know many programmers beyond these two.
@MrDisappointment I mentioned "getting over the hump" in my nomination, there will be a time that I'm learning the ropes, but I expect that the change, while drastic, will not be unmanageable. It's simply a new phase in what I'm trying to do at SO, help others, which I welcome.
19:08
@random I understand that it was a rule originally and I petitioned for it to be removed (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/111256/…) because I felt that it was not just for users who have been here longer to have a better chance than the others.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ See my previous answer for more, but I don't post many answers nowadays and instead focus on cleaning things up. Reputation no longer has the same draw for me as it once did, and I care more about maintaining the site as a great resource.
@NullUserException: I wouldn't devote less time to answering questions, just more time to moderating. I have plenty of time.
@NullUserException: I don't feverishly answer questions like I did in the early days. The FGITW behavior annoys me. I tend to comb through older questions and answer them. That's the same time when I clean stuff up with edits, comments and the occasional flag.
Don't forget to use the explicit reply button on the right of the message people.
Oh. Well, thanks @Neal!
19:08
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ I'll defer to my answer given last night: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/112443/… =)
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ My posting activities would shift towards answering older, unanswered questions, or questions where the current answers were lacking and I have specific knowledge that would be benificial
user142162
@genesis Can you elaborate on why you feel it wasn't?
@random Because just because you are hear more than a year, does not mean you have more or less experience in moderating SO (or any site)
What is your "fundamental principle of moderation?" That is, what is your top-level principle you will fall back on that will help you make decisions in borderline situations?
@MrDisappointment I am, but from what I see, the most that would happen to me is that I spend less time answering questions than performing other routine duties. And even then I don't quite foresee such a radical change in how I use the site.
19:10
@random I think it was a good requirement, but I'm not upset it was removed. It allowed for some people who are obviously capable to step up to the role. Right now, we need moderators, and we need qualified ones. Time is something we can't change. It's only an indicator of how long we've had to learn, not how much
@random the yearling badge was a reasonable suggestion because there are some events that are comparatively rare. extra time increases the odds of witnessing rarer events and increases familiarity with the community.
@random I believe the Yearling requirement should've stayed. Users who have been members for less than a year don't understand the site well enough to moderate it (nor does the rest of the users know the mod-to-be well enough). At least that's my opinion.
user50049
@BoltClock Would you have the time to help organize events, since the whole concept of DevDays is basically NULL at this point?
@TimCooper Because even me (5 month Stack Overflow participant) know the most of used practices and know most of the tools offered by Stack Overflow. Sure, there are a lot of things I had to learn, and I still have, but I think that I'm experienced enough to handle the duties
@RobertHarvey I'll ask myself "does this action as a moderator help the community?". If the answer is ever no, then I will not perform that action.
19:11
@RobertHarvey Can you give an example of borderline decisions?
@random I would argue yes, despite how discriminatory that might sound. For example, I ran for moderator last year and didn't make the primary cutoff, yet I feel better capable of doing the job now than I was a year ago (despite being a member for 3 years). Requiring people to have significant experience with the site and its standards is not a bad thing for moderators.
@TimPost I'm not good at that stuff, to be honest...
Q: Consider an online argument you've had in the past. 1) What about the argument made you respond so passionately - was it the topic, the way the other person presented it, or something else? 2) How long (# of responses or time) did the argument last? 3) How did it end (in terms of who ended it, and how did the contenders part ways - amicably, or otherwise)?
How familiar are you with the use of the 10K tools on Stack Overflow?
19:11
@RobertHarvey Moderators are human handler exceptions; if the community didn't report something as wrong, then the community thinks the situation is fine.
@minitech A close/open war
@genesis why do you think you are racking up way more down-votes than anyone else?
A technical dispute
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ @NullUserException: I don't feverishly answer questions like I did in the early days. The FGITW behavior annoys me. I tend to comb through older questions and answer them. That's the same time when I clean stuff up with edits, comments and the occasional flag.
@Shog9 Semi familiar. I have mostly been doing edits and flagging.
19:12
@RobertHarvey my fundamental principle would be "don't make problems worse" - that means stepping back if I can't be objective and it means looking for advice if I don't know what the right action to take is
@OffBySome Because sometimes I'm just wrong. I'm still learning and do mistakes
Content that might be perceived as promoting illegal behaviour.
@Shog9 I am a 20k user on a site, and a 10k users on other two sites. I use the 10k tools in all of them.
@RebeccaChernoff can we ask each other questions?
Please bold your questions for the candidates.
@Neal sure
19:12
@RobertHarvey "Be nice." A moderator is there to serve the community. That's not to say moderators should be subservient to the community - you should be gentle yet decisive. And that's an art.
@Shog9 Familiar enough to use them almost every day. I've been at 10k for a while. Admittedly, there's always more I can learn (for example, I don't look at the breakdown of answers by vote groupings nearly enough), but I'm familiar enough to help with the 10K rep moderation duties.
@RebeccaChernoff now i have to think of some ^_^
user50049
You have several flags indicating 'very low quality' on a single post; you can't find any obvious issues with the post. What do you do?
@TimPost can you elaborate?
@TimPost Bring it up in meta, chat with other mods about it at first. See if they might see something you've missed.
19:13
@AdamDavis It was how horribly rude the person was being. The argument lasted about 5 comments on each side, and eventually I stopped responding. I haven't seen the user since, either.
(Just to clarify, not being ignorant but I'm not going to reply to every answer to my questions, but simply getting the information exposed - unless there is a need to try and pry more information - otherwise it would seem more like a debate.)
user50049
@Neal three users have said 'this post has serious issues, it should be deleted' you don't see anything wrong with it.
@TimPost I would ask on meta and see what people say there.
@Shog9 I know most of the tools and I use them every day
@TimPost The flags are invalid, then.
19:14
@Shog9 of the 10k tools I've used the deletion ones the least and the "new answers to old questions" which I've found to be the easiest way of finding posts that require intervention outside of the flag queue itself, which I use fairly regularly also.
What makes you enjoy moderating and janitorial tasks?
@MrDisappointment that's what everyone should be doing (:
@random I think the Yearling was a good requirement and should not have been removed. It shows that you are willing to put in some kind effort to visit the site. A year is a long time and you get to see a lot of different situations that may occur. It doesn't mean that you always know the right answer but with more exposure to these situations the better you will be reading them and how to handle them.
@Neal Every time this happens?
Fairly familiar. I still haven't handled any spam.
19:14
@RobertHarvey First, will the community handle this on their own? If so, it doesn't need my intervention. Moderators must handle the extreme outer cases (non-answers, spam, etc.) that users can't deal with. When in doubt, my policy would be to either ask other moderators, bring it to the community via Meta, or leave an item alone.
@TimPost I check the revisions of the posts, and if effectively there is something that indicates a low quality post, I flag it as valid. "Low quality" flags should not replace down-votes, though.
@TimPost I would ask someone for their opinion, or let the flag be marked as resolved by someone else
@RebeccaChernoff Figured. Could easily derail into a slalom of 'yes-buttery'. :)
@MichaelMyers no. not everytime. if anything i would try to see other posts the user has to see if they got flagged down the same and what they contained
@mizo The fact I am doing something useful for the SE site I am moderating, which is the reason I use 10k tools, and review posts.
19:15
@RobertHarvey I would say I know it when I see it, but for borderline situations, well, I believe there are others more experienced whom I can look to for assistance. I pretty much defer to them in that regard.
@mizo Helps improve the community ^_^
user142162
@minitech Are you saying that you are so sure of your own personal judgement not to investigate the matter further?
@AdamDavis Usually it's my passion for the topic at hand that fueled the argument. I'll also attribute my youth to it. I've been out of the business of flame wars for a while. =) To say it was the way the other person presented it is a little bit of a cop out; it takes two to tango. As I got older, the arguments didn't last, and eventually became non-existent, and I ultimately got to the point where I was big enough to say when I was wrong or approached the debate wrong.
user50049
You edited one of your posts 20 times, the system converted it to CW. You'd like that reverted. As a moderator, what would you do?
@mizo Taking a terrible piece of content and turning it into something good. It gives a great sense of accomplishment :)
19:16
@mizo I just love to clean the posts & titles in the titles
@random The Yearling badge was a good requirement for Community Moderators because less than a year is likely too short to establish a track record of past behavior. But it's a fine point and not something I stress about.
@Shog9 As some of the current moderators can attest, I'm way too familiar with these tools. They've evolved significantly since I first got access to them, and I'm definitely enjoying the new review system for answers and close votes.
@mizo I am bit OCD when it comes to keeping the site clean. I already do it now, through edits and flags, becoming a moderator would be a logical next step. I love Stack Overflow's collaborative editing aspect, that's one the things that drew me to the site.
@TimPost Obviously check any edits that may have changed the quality of the post. Then check out the User. Either previous history available to mods or chat with a few other mods to see if the user has been in any conflicts with other users. If they are all negative then dismiss the flags.
@TimPost I edited my post? or someone edited their post and is asking?
19:17
@TimPost I wouldn't do so. It would be unfair to the users which want to do so but can't
@AdamDavis 1) technical advice that was faulty/flawed 2) I aim to state my case clearly and then leave it at that (or possibly ask a follow up question if it's ambiguous and interesting enough in its own right). sometimes I'll clarify things further if I feel the problem was a communication one and not simply who can shout the loudest - this means typically fairly short 3) amicably agree to disagree on implications of problem
@TimPost I leave it as CW. That is not a good use of moderator powers.
@mizo It helps the community in ways that others cannot. If one appreciates the vital role that those actions play in maintaining the health of the SO ecosystem, then "moderating" and "janitorial tasks" don't take on a negative connotation. I've never seen them as such because I realize the value those actions have.
@TimPost if it is my post. leave it CW. if it a user's post, see the reason why the edits were made
@TimCooper Well, if there's nothing obviously wrong, then it's not "very low quality." Something else might be an issue, and if that were the case and I wasn't sure what to do with it, I would ask on MSO.
19:18
@TimPost Nothing. The CW conversion was put in place for a reason, using your mod abilities to circumvent that is a slippery slope.
@TimPost Usually, this indicates a decent question that is phrased poorly. In the past, I've edited such questions into shape and seen a good response to that. I'd do so and dismiss the existing flags. I doubt that the flags would return.
A fellow mod gets called out by an irate user on Meta. How do you handle the situation? Ignore the situation? Lend your support? Or?
user50049
Through a moderator tool, you found some people near you. Would you reach out to them?
@TimPost check the revision history - it's quite likely if a post has seen that much attention that someone else has fixed the problem whilst the flags were waiting in the queue
@TimPost No.
19:18
If I leave and come back am I still allowed in?
@studiohack Try to lend support and see what the situation is. if it was blatant then I might act differently
@studiohack I try to intermediate, if it is possible.
@Neal how so?
@TimPost I'd ask another moderator to do it; it wouldn't be right for me to make that conversion; there's a conflict of interest there.
@TimPost Leave it. I don't care about reputation, so why should I take special action on one of my own questions?
19:19
@AdamDavis 1) Mostly the topic, about a certain controversial technology topic. 2) Just a 10-minute Twitter conversation. 3) Agree to disagree.
@studiohack try to contact the mod via chat
@TimPost I didn't think you could revert it back. If it means that much then just delete it and ask it again. However, you should probably ask yourself why I am editing a post 20 times.
@Neal Mods always stand together. always.
@studiohack privvy
Do you see your role as primarily dealing with issues other users bring to you, or will you be "out on the streets" so to speak, actively policing posts? Describe what makes the difference for you between letting the users guide the site, and you taking unilateral action on items not yet flagged.
19:19
@studiohack I would like to get some knowledge about the situation and afterwards, I would try to help
user50049
Someone has dug up some bad things in your history, and questioned an action you took based on that. How will you deal with that?
@TimPost If there were information on their profile like Twitter usernames and the profile linked to had location information, I might follow them :) Otherwise no.
You closed a question. That OP later finds your home phone number, calls you up at 3am and asks for you to clarify the reasoning. How many days should they be suspended?
@TimPost No, not through the use of the tool, it would be through a public venue, such as chat, a comment in the system, or something not related to a tool that I have as a privilege.
19:20
@Shog9 I spend most time in the overview and on close votes, but I've explored and invested learning effort into all the tools.
@mizo two things - slightly obsessive about fixing grammar/spelling/formatting issues and a warm fuzzy feeling from making constructive improvements to things that interest me (i.e. technical Q&A in this instance)
@TimPost Read the comments, if any, and go from there. Maybe have a look at the flagger's flagging history and look for a pattern: targeted flagging of a specific user, etc.
@studiohack Well they should always try to find out the issues together, doesnt mean they agree
@studiohack Usually, I've found that the moderator in question can defend themselves quite well in these situations. If I could provide another perspective on the matter than the person being accused, I would most likely add a polite comment or two.
@random for the rest of the night!
19:21
@TimPost Ask on meta if I'm not sure, otherwise I cancel the flags.
@studiohack It depends on why the user is irate; if the mod acted in an improper way, then I'd work to resolve the situations. Loyalty towards other moderators is not assumed with the title, loyalty is earned, and even then, loyalty should not shape moderator decisions; what is best for the community should, first and foremost.
With some of your actions no longer going through an 'authoritative filter', what influence do you think this will have, if any, on your speed of decision making?
@random 42 days
@Neal a public united front.
@random The user would not get any suspension, from me.
19:21
@random Hm... if anyone calls that early, I don't even answer.
@studiohack yes, hence a private chat
@TimPost I would try to remember what happened, and in case that was my fault, I would do the action needed to rollback the action
@MrDisappointment None. (I never make decisions like that based on personal issues.)
@TimPost Probably not. If people care to be contacted, they generally place such information in their public profile.
@AdamDavis There are obvious situations where an item needs to be flagged; rude or offensive content, content that obviously doesn't belong (something purely subjective, violating NDA, etc). Those things need to be actively policed. Other things, the community can handle, but I will police them in the event the community misses them.
19:22
@random My phone number is fairly easy to find, borderline public. So none...after the first call, where I tell them something like "This is not an appropriate phone call, we need to keep our communication within the confines of StackOverflow".
@MrDisappointment not much
@MrDisappointment "Measure Twice, Cut Once". I would consider the action twice before doing so.
@TimPost I never revert it myself until and unless I ask other mods, and they give it the OK (in which case they'd probably have reverted it for me). 99% of the time, though, I'm not bothered enough by auto-CW to want to revert.
@TimPost It depends. Was it the result of a policy change? If so, should the policy be applied retroactively or should the old content be grandfathered? That probably falls on Jeff. If not, and I truly made a bad call, I'll admit the mistake and correct it.
@MrDisappointment It will just influence the actions for which other users can act on, and for which I would wait for any response from other users.
19:23
@TimPost I would ask the user to correlate the bad actions in my history with the action at hand. If there's a correlation, then I'd address the action to resolve it, if not, I'd not address it, but in the interest of transparency, bring it up with other mods to make the final decision.
@studiohack it depends what they were called out for - in general though if it looks like a misunderstanding/disagreement I'd try and analyse the situation in an answer and explain why I thought the action the user objected to was taken if they are seeking clarification. If I can't make it better (missing details) I would avoid it though and if it looked unambiguously like a genuine accidental click I'd take corrective actions as appropriate
@AdamDavis I don't think moderators should be actively seeking out posts to police. If you stumble across one then fair enough. There is enough community members to deal with the day to day normal stuff. Moderators should be there to deal with exceptional circumstances - situations where its not possible for "normal" users to resolve or when a situation is getting out of hand. That is what the flag for moderator button is for.
@random There's a larger issue than suspending them for SO; all due respect to the system, my first concern is to protect myself and my family, so I would call the police first. I'd bring it up on meta second. I'd let Jeff, Joel, and the community decide.
As the site has grown the community has chosen to become more exclusionary in their approach to poor questions. Do you see the site as more or less approachable, and more or less fun than when you started? Is the current level of exclusion and fun appropriate, or do you feel it would be good to nudge it in one direction or another?
@AdamDavis Actively policing posts is not the role of moderators, who should be human exception handlers.
19:24
@AdamDavis At first, I'd probably be content to handle some of the flagging load and not seek out additional problematic items. The community lately has been doing an extremely good job of identifying content (I've had a hard time finding things to flag that aren't already within the last few weeks).
@mizo A combination of 1) general satisfaction from helping the community 2) tools that are easy to use to achieve it routinely and regularly
@AdamDavis Yes, it has become much more serious than even one year ago. I am not sure what one mod can do about that, but I can try.
@AdamDavis It is as fun as it was before. Poor questions don't make the site funnier.
@AdamDavis Actively policing, but only taking serious action if there are large, obvious issues.
Q: You actually make a mistake and get called out on meta. An overwhelming amount of users agree with the complaint and protest. How do you respond?
19:25
@MrDisappointment My decision making might be slightly impacted. As a moderator, one has to be aware of the impact of their decisions. That doesn't mean I'd make my decisions out of haste. The impact of being a moderator will always factor into my decisions.
@studiohack Lend my support.
user50049
As an aside, thank you to everyone who made it this far. Getting past the primary is not exactly .. comfortable :) I know this from experience.
OK folks, I've got to get back to work. For more answers, please see the transcript - participated in full at the last Town Hall session.
Good luck to all candidates.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ Apologize, but not too overtly or else that could come out even worse
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ I try to fix my error, and I ask apologizes.
19:26
@TimPost I wouldn't use privileged information to do so - that would cross a line into stalking in my view. If the public information on their profile solicited social activities I might suggest a pub meetup for example. (My profile doesn't make a big secret of how to contact me and I was a little surprised when a user phoned me recently, but we had a constructive and friendly chat)
@AdamDavis I don't think exclusion of someone who genuinely wants to participate and be part of our community in any form is acceptable. I don't like how SO is becoming more exclusionary. We can change that however, with better approaches towards those that we feel "shouldn't" be here to make them valued members of the community.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ I would be trying to resolve the situation, revert back the changes if needed.
@AdamDavis It is less forgiving than it used to be. I think it needs to cut some people some slack - especially new users. A gentle nudge in the right direction (FAQ, editing questions/answers) not just straight closing everything. If posts get closed yes they can be reopened but I don't feel it's immediately clear to new users.
@TimPost I use my real name on the site and elsewhere because I stand behind what I say online. I'm confident that I could defend things I've said in the past, or at least explain my reasoning at the time I said it. I can also admit mistakes that I've made before and how I've learned from them since.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ You reverse the decision, simple. Moderators serve at the pleasure of the community.
user50049
19:28
@BradLarson How much time (daily) do you have to devote to janitorial tasks?
@TimPost (Assuming I interpreted your question correctly) I know I wouldn't say things like "Hey I noticed you're from so-and-so while I was looking at your profile for such-and-such". That's not only creepy, it also gives an impression that I'm using the mod tools specially to scout for people near me, even if I really did just chance upon the person.
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ Post an answer to the meta post apologising for the error. Revert the action if it's not been done already. It's a mistake - everyone makes them. It's no big deal.
@TimPost Call a press conference and deny everything! (Seriously...) I'd keep my response to the facts of the action I took: explain what I did, why I did it, and that is the only reason for my action. I'd also reach out to another moderator and give them a heads up.
@MrDisappointment I will be more deliberate in my actions, because I won't be able to defer to the community on close or delete votes to see if others agree with my thoughts.
How important do you believe the use of good grammar, spelling, punctuation and capitalization by users is? How do you respond to such deficiencies?
19:29
@AdamDavis I'd rather avoid unilateral action in all but the most obvious cases ("NIKE TRAINERS CHEAP") - I am fairly "on the streets" in the tags that interest me though
@TimPost I would try to remember the situation, and in case I would think that I was really wrong, I would admit it and try to help to resolve the problems issued
user50049
I have to go do that 'work' thing now. Thanks, all of you for your candidness.
As a Stack Overflow moderator, you'll also have moderation powers on this very chat site; unlike all other sites, mods from other sites can't help you. Are you active in chat? Are you aware of the problems chat.SO currently has, if any? Do you have any plans in place for that?
@RobertHarvey It's important to allow other users to understand the question being asked, but it should not be the only measure of the posts' quality.
@RobertHarvey I typically edit for such things, I think they are very, very important. SO prides itself on organic search results. Because of that, it's important that the content on the site is quality content that makes it easier for search engines to do their jobs. It's also why there is a wiki component to the site; it's so we can constantly refine content to make it better for all.
19:30
@TimPost In the range of 2-4 hours, scattered throughout the day, with interruptions from occasional commitments like conferences and other events. I have a fairly flexible work schedule, given our small company.
@TimPost If I agreed with their assessment I'd take appropriate corrective action. If I disagreed I'd defer to seek a second opinion.
@RobertHarvey Well both of my opinions on that subject were turned down on meta: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/89138/… and meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/92107/is-stackoverflow-a-forum I stand by the 1st one and the lol one I now understand more, but i feel it is not a reason to downvote or ridicule people because of it.
@badp I am currently not active in chat, or aware of problems in chat (if there are any, because of said inactivity). If there are, then my hope is that these would be brought up in meta, and I'd plan on spending some more time in chat to see if/where problems lie.
@RobertHarvey To ask a great question (which is what the site is about yes?) the post needs to be coherent and readable. I'd edit the post and post a comment pointing them to the FAQ and my edit as an example of how to format/spell/construct their question. I'd probably post the link to the article Jon Skeet created for asking questions.
@RobertHarvey To be honest, I'm not so good at English, but I'm always using the correct punctuation and capitalization. When I see a post with some i instead of i, r instead of are, u instead of you, I'm always trying to correct them as my knowledge of English lets me
19:31
@RobertHarvey If it's unreadable, it's an issue - but regardless, I edit the post to correct all issues. It helps people learn good English.
@badp I am very active in php and javascript chatrooms. I see a few problems in chat including hyperflagging by some people.
Have you ever voted to close a post you knew you could edit if you had more time?
@casperOne There used to be trouble with room deduplication or lack thereof and language barrier issues. I don't idle here either, though.
@AdamDavis yes.
@AdamDavis No.
19:32
@random I wouldn't know if it's them because I don't take calls from strangers.
@AdamDavis No.
@Neal Good news - moderators can see who cast the first flag on all but your chat messages.
@AdamDavis No. That's a wrong step. If I do not have time, I let it as-is. It might be edited by someone else.
@AdamDavis At the risk of being a spoilsport, the primary mission of Stack Overflow is not to have fun, but to help people find solutions to their problems. There are plenty of outlets for jokes, cartoons, etc. on the Internet, and Stack Overflow doesn't need to be another one. I think the recent quality filters and other improvements have done a great job in managing incoming content quality.
@badp that would be very very useful ^_^
19:33
@AdamDavis No, but at the same time, "more time" is subjective. If I think I can improve a post, I usually favorite it and come back if I don't feel I have "enough time".
@MrDisappointment I'll be more cautious with my close and delete votes depending on the situation, and only cast if I'm 100% sure something has to be closed or isn't worth keeping.
@random my home phone number doesn't ring at 3am so I can't get awoken in appropriately. Timezones might account for odd hours to phone at. My action would depend on the tone. If the user was abusive I would consider taking action, but not if it was a genuine plea for help (I don't know what typical suspension times are, I'm not even sure it would be the right tool though so the first step would be to find out what a proportionate response would be)
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ Correct the action and learn from the mistake. We're all human, and we occasionally miss things. The most important part is to not get angry or defensive, but to realize when you've done something wrong and thank people for pointing it out.
@genesis: What do you think of all the criticism you've received due to your past behavior? Is it fair or not?
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ Apologize, and see if I can work with the community to follow up and resolve the situation, whatever is necessary.
19:37
@casperOne It is fair. I have done a lot of mistakes before, I have admitted it. I'm trying to chang as I'm being older on Stack Exchange and trying to make the site better place to stay
@MrDisappointment my current actions are mostly via votes (flags are effectively votes that moderators set the bar on). That means if I'm not sure a "vote/flag" is implicitly a question to others with similar or greater voting powers. Without that ability to seek a consensus my actions would be reduced to the cases where there is far less doubt involved.
@RobertHarvey Language is not as important as having a good core question. It's trivial to edit a roughly worded question into shape, but you can't fix truly bad content. With a growing population of users that don't have English as their native tongue, we have to be willing to help people with their wording, not just reject them outright. The one exception to this is the use of txtspeak, which really grinds my gears.
@genesis Do you feel they are truly mistakes? Many people say it was intentional.
13 messages moved to Sandbox
@AdamDavis It's not as fun as it used to be when I started, but those days where filled with self-selected interested coders who were exploring a new land of J&J's creation. Now the that the roads are not only defined, but pathed with ample sign posts, the community needs everyone to accept the now formalized rules of the road. All this development has given SO users outlets for their 'fun' needs, including a sandbox for the kids (chat).
19:38
New users now have to register to ask on SO. Was this a good idea or the greatest idea ever? What other measures might help SO from getting reamed so violently and so often?
@casperOne You have to trust me, no mistake I have done here wasn't an intentional. I am not even sure why would I want to do that
@badp To be honest, I've tried to get into chat, but the rooms that I've tried using have always been either inactive for days or filled with help vampires and other noise. I don't understand why chat seems to be so much less robust than the discussions on Meta, and I don't have a good solution for this either.
@random Greatest idea ever? Perhaps you'd want to make that "Greatest idea ever on SO" =) I run an SO clone and I've found registration through OpenID/OA to be invaluable in keeping out spam. It is a small price to ask people to pay to maintain the general health of the community.
Bill Gates passes away during your tenure as a moderator. You feel he deserves a banner like the one Steve Jobs got. What do you do? Or, some other mod puts a banner for him. Users are irate on meta saying that Dennis Ritchie didn't get his. Do you remove the banner?
@RobertHarvey As long as it makes sense, and doesn't look more like chatspeak/laziness than an imperfect but OK ability to form sentences, I'm fine with it.
19:40
@random It was necessary. It could not have been the greatest idea, but it would have been a worse idea not to take any action.
Where do you come from? Stack Overflow has 6 moderators from the US, 3 from Europe and just poor @TimPost from Oceania. A site this large needs moderation around the clock; how well would you fill in the gaps if you were elected?
@random It was a good idea, I think. There were many people which have been using this to spam the site
@AdamDavis I've voted to close questions, then realized how I could edit them into shape afterwards. I then would generally edit the question and leave behind a comment telling people to ignore my mistaken close vote.
@random However, I do feel that becoming an identity provider puts strain on the development team, because now, security and attacks on that security are additional burdens they have to deal with. I trust in them, but less burdens there are, the more they can focus on other issues.
@AdamDavis No, I've never closed that could be saved by editing. I, somewhat masochistically, like to cleanup newbie posts. If it is beyond my capabilities (eg.: don't know language x well enough to format the code to a presentable state) or time then I'll leave it.
19:41
@quantumSoup I would first discuss it on meta, and with other moderators.
@badp I come from Europe, and I would fill the gaps, as I have flexibility on when to be on SO.
@quantumSoup That's a substantial site change which I feel should be brought up in meta; users will sound off about it in meta, and action (by me or someone else) will be taken based on the way the wind blows there.
@AdamDavis Yes, and in that case my close vote is often intended as a chance for the OP to do so.
@AdamDavis I don't think it's any less approachable for users who ask good questions (they're still well received). I think it might be less approachable to users who don't ask good question - the key thing here is that they're fed appropriate constructive advice. Good questions are fun questions in my view - "fix this code I've not shown you" or "do my job for me" aren't fun.
user142162
Do you feel that SO users with higher reputation are more likely to have their answers voted higher, regardless of the quality? Do you think that hiding a users' reputation when they answer a question would benefit the site?
19:42
@badp I'm in Switzerland and generally stay within +/- 1 time zone.
@quantumSoup Remove the banner. They should be there for important site or network messages. Adding a "memorial" banner just irritates people a) It's there and distracting b) They don't think the person mentioned deserves it or c) The banner isn't there for such a person or other.
@badp I live in NYC, I'm not going to change my sleep schedule to "fill in a gap" (sorry) but I pitch in with all the time I am able to.
@AdamDavis (part 2, that was too long apparently) I think the appropriate direction to take would be better feedback in the case of well intentioned, but poorly executed questions (and answers) from new users.
@casperOne That's not what I meant, I just wanted to give a little chance to mods from non-standard timezones to shine.
@random I cannot think of a single disadvantage to this. I'd always thought not requiring any registration in any form was a backdoor to spam, if not a front door (as well-defended SO is against spam...).
19:44
@random I think it was a good idea. and renaming adds flavorr ^_^
@genesis You have received a lot of criticism from a few users in particular. How would that affect your moderation when it comes to posts made these users?
@badp I live in London, UK and am usually on around 7am GMT for an hour or so and usually from 4pm until about 9pm GMT. If it's a slow day then I could be active for most of the day too :)
@badp I come from US EST.
@quantumSoup If I recall correctly, the Jobs one was posted by Jeff, without the interaction of the moderators. I would not feel that it was my place to post something like this, unless there was an overwhelming consensus to do so. The debate over the last one is still continuing.
@TimCooper No, I don't think so, it's more about the speed and quality of the answer
19:44
@TimCooper I think that effect definitely does exist. However, I don't think that hiding rep is the answer, people worked hard to earn it and should be able to have it displayed.
You are hoping to join a very hard working crew. If selected, in what way will you change how much time you spend on site, and when you spend it? If you were asked to set the "minimum hours per week moderating" requirement before a moderator was to be dismissed, what would you say the minimum should be?
@NullUserExceptionఠ_ఠ mistakes are mistakes - everybody makes them (this gets said time and again on meta). The important thing is how they get corrected. I'd do my best to correct the mistake and learn from it for the future.
@badp Apologies then, take it away @TimPost!!!
@TimCooper As a user with high reputation on three sites, I can say there is the same chance that my posts are down-voted. Hiding the reputation would not benefit the site; there have been a request to hide who answers, at least for a short time, but the feature didn't have a warm welcome.
@quantumSoup Moderators can set banners? That sounds dangerous, only "the powers that be" should have that kind of power...not mere demi-god-like moderators.
19:44
@quantumSoup I feel that the banners are meant for site announcements, and nothing else. A rule of thumb I think about is that if doesn't even come close to being on meta, neither does it on the banner.
@TimCooper I believe people are fooled by high rep. When I first started on SO my low rep lead to my answers not being chosen as much. I belive that once you reach a certain point your rep really shouldnt be shown on the page (>10K maybe?)
@TimCooper I'll also add that I don't think that it's a systemic issue. Do I care if Jon Skeet gets more rep on an answer than I do even though we have eerily similar answers? Not in the least.
@AdamDavis I am not sure anyone can answer that. It all really depends on the quality of their work
@BradLarson Actually, it was posted by Joel while Jeff was away.
@quantumSoup I would be more careful (and I'm) (and even more when moderating) after these accidents and I would firstly learn from my mistakes.
19:46
@AdamDavis There isn't a minimum; moderating should not be the most predominant activity done in a site, nor the predominant activity done during the day.
@BradLarson Actually it was Joel who posted it. Jeff was against it.
@badp I'm located in the U.S. Central time zone, so yes, I'm another person from that region. My heaviest hours are early in the morning, around noon, and later at night. That spans a bit of time in the day, but others can judge if that is not enough coverage for the growing non-U.S. presence of the site.
@AdamDavis Mandatory hourly contributions are unfair IMO. Only if you took a least-common-denominator approach would it be fair. Everyone performs at different rates, everyone has varying amounts of time. And remember, this is a community-driven site. If you feel a moderator isn't doing what they should, or enough, then I'd recommend bringing it up in meta and opening a slot for the next election.
@AdamDavis I spend a lot of time on Stack Overflow, so I think this wouldn't be a problem for me, and I'd say that there shouldn't be a minimum
A little over 10 minutes remaining...
19:47
If you do not get elected to this election for any reason, do you plan on entering the next?
@quantumSoup Sorry, misremembered this. In any case, it wasn't a moderator-level decision and I think it should remain as such.
@badp I'm in Singapore. @TimPost is in the Philippines. We share the same timezone (Southeast Asia). I'm active for many hours in the day, and often find my activity overlapping with users in other timezones. I believe timezone is an important factor in considering me for a position, albeit a small one.
@Xeon06 For sure ^_^
@Xeon06 Sure I would try to do so.
@Xeon06 Yes. I think I can contribute, and I would try the next elections.
19:48
@AdamDavis I'd simply be grateful that there are people willing to step up and do the work that is asked of them with no expectation of remuneration in return.
@Xeon06 Yes
@RobertHarvey for non-native English speakers I respect and appreciate the fact that they're making an effort to communicate in a language that might be quite hard for them. for native English speakers it can be an indicator of lazyness which I don't like, however I recognise that even for some native speakers there can be good reasons for poor writing style. As a non-mod I try to fix these. As a mod I would defer to the community generally unless (continued later, too long)
@TimCooper Actually, that's exactly what I notice with my answers. However, hiding a user's reputation pretty much defeats the purpose and concept of reputation at all, so we might as well rename reputation to something else instead...
@RobertHarvey cont. unless the post was attracting the wrong kind of attention (e.g. abusive comments, close for what was otherwise reasonable)
@Xeon06 Yes sir! It's a great experience. I (obviously) wasn't elected last election, and I've come to appreciate the moderator position more in that time; last election, I just "threw my hat in the ring", this time, I'm all out.
19:50
@AdamDavis This would depend on the work load required to deal with the amount of flags, etc. on the site, given the number of moderators available. I don't believe that there was a definite answer to number of hours or number of flags required in the related Meta discussion on this topic, so I think this will be a matter of feel rather than hard numbers.
Philosophical question: editing to correct flaws in other user's answers: merely admirable, or worthy of a medal?
@RobertHarvey I do believe proper it is important. Programmers should like proper syntax, right? Posts with a stray missing capitalization are not worthy of an edit, but posts that in really bad shape do. All of my coworkers are non-native English speakers, they prefer me to correct them. I've taken this habit to SO. The only time a post should be deleted because of poor grammar is when it is totally incomprehensible that it is beyond salvage and the user has not cleaned it up. Nobody's perfect.
@Shog9 It's worth a badge.
There are a lot of high views / highly voted questions that are closed as "Not Constructive", what is your stance on this? Throw them under the rug (i.e. leave them), edit so it could be reopened (if so how) or kill it with fire (delete)?
@Shog9 I think its admirable. Whose to say that those corrections are correct? :-D
19:51
@TimCooper I don't think that hiding their reputation would help. I have never considered a user's reputation when voting
@phwd Leave them for now.
@Xeon06 For me, as much as I want to, I can't admit much honestly - it depends on what happens in the next year. Private personal issues to deal with, and such.
It seems some candidates feel that moderation is something they can do during the existing time they spend on site. Do you feel you have a good grasp of what you'll spend your time doing, and that you'll be able to do so without adjusting your current schedule?
@Shog9 Depends on the flaw. Remember, we are never supposed to make an edit which changes the intent. Assuming that the change is not to change the intent, it's always admirable. Whether or not it's worthy of the badge depends on the quality of the edit (adding a missing semi-colon to the end of some C# code is not worthy of a badge, but admirable). In short, always admirable, sometimes worthy of a badge.
@Shog9 I do not think that it would be admirable. I'm correcting other's answers, if possible, to help them, not to get medals. If the flaws are in grammar/spelling, they should be edited, not otherwise, not to change the intention
19:52
@phwd If they can be edited to be constructive then edit them. However, if they cannot, then leave them, they serve as a bellwether for what isn't accepted/what not to do on the site.
@AdamDavis I think I can do it without adjusting my current schedule. If I moderate most of the time, I would get worried of the decisions I take.
@Shog9 Most of such edits that I commit would be too minor to deserve a real reward IMO. Those that do would be too substantial and could potentially change the meaning of posts, which is something I'd rather not deal with.
@phwd That all depends on the question. Just because it has high views or votes doesn't make it a good fit for the site. If breaches what is defined in the FAQ then there is no point in trying to save it.
@AdamDavis I think I do. I just will have to be more careful with my decisions.
@phwd I leave them alone. I still find these very controversial, and touchy, and I'd rather not touch them in case I get a "shock".
19:53
@AdamDavis There are two questions in there; I admit openly that I don't understand completely (see my "getting over the hill" section in my nomination) what moderation will bring, but that doesn't mean I'm completely ignorant of what is required of me or what I'll be able to do. To answer the second, yes, I'll easily be able to do so without adjusting my schedule.
Another mod spends their time on the site just answering questions, rarely touching flags and only closing when it happens to be something they come across while looking for more things to answer. How would you oust them from a position they're clearly not interested in?
@badp I am active in chat and I've witnessed some of the problems you refer to I think. I don't have a silver bullet solution to it I'm afraid though. I've taken the "make things no worse" path so far, which mostly resulted in doing nothing
Say you are elected, but due to unforeseen circumstances, you ca no longer dedicate enough to moderation. Do you resign?
@quantumSoup Yes.
@quantumSoup Sure.
19:54
@quantumSoup Yes.
@AdamDavis Yes, I have a rough idea. I can imagine myself doing the same thing I'm doing now, only with slightly more moderation work and less answering. I don't think one's going to adversely affect the other.
@Xeon06 It depends on if I still feel that I would be able to help in the position. I ran last time and didn't make it past the primaries, yet I looked at it and still felt like I could take some of the load off of the existing moderators. I'm still content helping out as a non-moderator by acting as a 20k user and flagging, voting to close, and voting to delete bad content.
user142162
@genesis Can you edit that back? I think that was an important point. You said something about "school problems."
@random Have a meeting of the minds with them and find out what is going on
@quantumSoup Yes.
@random Send them a chat message in the Mod Chat room and ask them why they are answering questions all the time instead of moderating. No point in cloak and daggers when you can just ask them outright. Ask them if they want to carry on with their moderator duties.
19:55
@random Mention it to them first in private (Mod chat or email), try to clarify, perhaps encourage them to be more involved. Then I'd let other the senior mods deal with it.
@AdamDavis Yes, I'll. I decide a lot of time on Stack Overflow, so it's not a problem for me to divide normal participation and moderation duties
@phwd Edit them if possible.
@AdamDavis I'd definitely have to adjust my reunite, but that does not scare me. For the most part my editing/flagging activity has usually been a task I enjoy--fun time for when I can squeeze it in. If similar tasks like moderation were a duty, a responsibility, then that would be motivational.
@random It's not up to me to oust him. It's up to the community. Make a case in meta; bring up a suggestion on how to address those kinds of moderators as a feature request. Being an MVP, I'm used to having to retain responsibilities; it's not something you achieve once and then you are forever an MVP, we are re-evaluated every year for the award.
@AdamDavis I don't think so on that one - edits that save a question are more far more rewarding than simply closing in my view.
19:56
Do you miss TheTXI or RichB or both? (if you don't know who they are/were, you may safely ignore this question)
@quantumSoup Yes. If you know that you can't dedicate enough time that is required then you should resign. Another person can be elected and take the work load. If you were doing a good job you can always nominate yourself again in another election (providing you can dedicate enough time of course)
@quantumSoup Yes, if I cannot perform the responsibilities delegated to me because of other circumstances, then I'd resign, and I'd do it graciously, content that I was able to help while I could.
@quantumSoup Sure. I do not think that it would happen though, until I have some serious problems with the school
@random I could try to talk to them about it, but if any real action needs to be taken I leave it to the other mods.
@AdamDavis I'm not sure what they are
19:57
You find out that a fellow moderator is possibly engaging in questionable behavior, like having sockpuppets upvoting their posts. How do you handle the situation?
5 minutes left! final questions?
@AdamDavis guess i am not old enough to know who they are...
@random I personally hate the idea of collecting logins on every website that I visit, but enforcing OpenID login here provides some sort of necessary accountability. What do you mean by "reamed so violently"?
@quantumSoup again. meeting of the minds. private chat to see what is going on.
@AdamDavis Miss, no, but at the same time, I think it's important for users like that (in small doses), as it helps the site grow and learn. If the site isn't challenged, then it won't evolve.
19:57
@phwd Leave them. I'm loath to straight-up delete content that has some value and that people have put significant amounts of time into. I do like some of the edits and comments that other moderators have placed on these older questions, indicating that they were once appropriate for the site but are no longer accepted. This seems to be a fine way to not have these be broken windows, yet still have them survive.
@quantumSoup I would discus it with the other mods, and with the mod which has the sock puppet account. I do not think this is even possible to happen
Ok, let's give the candidates a chance to finish up with the questions asked
@quantumSoup Check it out and if they are, contact the team and let them know. Banning them won't work as they are moderator. by team I mean [email protected]
@quantumSoup Yes, and I do my best to explain why if circumstances permit me to do so, in order to be accountable.
@badp I'm from the US, but I'm usually up either early or late, depending on my sleep cycle. I don't think location is that much of an issue for me.
19:58
@TimCooper I hadn't enough time to revert the change back. I have posted the rest below
@random this looks like it was a good move from what I've seen. I might be in favour of some kind of "question purgatory" for first questions which could be handled by comparatively low rep users for a rep bonus, but I'm not too sure on that one. I definitely don't favour a two-tier system as has been proposed on meta a few times in the past
@quantumSoup Again, bring it up in meta; meta is the perfect venue for these types of actions. One of the reasons it exists is to ask what to do when we don't know what to do.
Jeff Atwood has a super-veto for issues raised on Meta ("The community is run by YOU" notwithstanding). Have you ever disagreed with any of his [status-declined] decisions (which ones?), and how would this affect your moderation?
@quantumSoup Report it to the other mods and the team immediately.
@casperOne So you would publicly expose the mod?
19:59
@Moshe Being reamed violently usually happens when they forget to use lube. And when they just post all sorts of low quality garbage and spam at a rate that's fairly quick, hard to rub down
@Xeon06 Yes.
@RobertHarvey I have disagreed. I was once banned from asking questions on Meta due to all the poor results from the ones I already had. I had emailed support for SO and Jeff responded and got my meta account active again.
@Xeon06 If not elected, I'd only enter the next election if the pool of available candidates was equally as select as this election. Being a moderator is not something I'd actively considered or desired until discovering that SO considered my a viable candidate. It sounds mushy, but I've been flattered by the support I've received so far.
@quantumSoup I'm not in the business of designing banners or deciding who is most famous
@RobertHarvey The only time I disagreed with him, he stepped back, and changed his decision.
19:59
@RobertHarvey I can't recall any decision I've been in violent disagreement with. Even if I did, it wouldn't be something that impacts me. Disagreements are a part of life, this is no different, and Jeff does have that authority, which I respect.
@quantumSoup Of course. It's not helpful to occupy a post that you're no longer capable of acting on. This can help the site administrators better know when to run new elections.

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