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12:46 AM
@Andreasdetestscensorship Yes, but it's a large issue, as there's not just that one question for that one tag. That one question has on the order of 10k to 20k questions which use it as a duplicate-target. Those would need to be resolved prior to migration. While it might be possible for CMs to migrate it, after the duplicates are taken care of, we don't know if they are willing. We will need to do some investigation to see if it's possible / acceptable prior to discussing the larger task on MSO. Overall, it probably means resolving > 100k questions which have been closed with that sort of question as the duplicate-target. In other words, the overall issue is much larger than just that one question and all of the per-tag/language questions like that need to be handled at the same time, or we'll have people upset that the one of these that's for "their" tag is being targeted, just like the last time this sort of thing was brought up on MSO.
 
2:10 AM
@RyanMb @Makyen I should perhaps bring it up Meta, then. Do you have a link or keywords for me to use for a search for the past discussion, that Makyen mentioned?
i believe we should add a notice in the meantime, keeping it there permanently if the question remains on main. A specially formatted message in one of those blue boxes would be best, but if that’s not possible, we could add some footnotes.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I was trying fairly hard to say: "Please don't bring this huge can of worms up on MSO again, at this time."
 
Ah, well, that’s why I wanted to read the old discussion prior, so I’d at least know how big of an issue it is. How about opening an issue for us to find all these questions, and target them for adding notices, stating that they are inappropriate for the main, asking users to post similar ones on Meta in the future?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship It's "fix 100k+ questions" big, across multiple different language tags. The discussion has already been had about should new ones be on main vs. MSO, with the decision that they should be on MSO (and, of course, multiple people feeling that requirement to be on MSO is "picking on" the tags that don't get them on SO).
 
But these posts give the impression that future ones should be on main. There’s no sign of this discussion in the posts themselves, so they serve to educate users that future discussions of the like should be put on main. This also results in them not searching meta for these questions when they need them. That’s why I suggesg
suggested opening a thread on Meta for finding all these questions, and adding appropriate notices to each and every one of them.
That way, we don’t have to manage the complaints you brought up here, and we don’t need to clean up hundres of thousands of questions.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Just to supply a clear data point: that question has 19,381 linked questions. A very large portion of those are closed as duplicates with this question being the duplicate-target. There are a variety of these questions in different tags with a substantial spread of the number of questions which have used it as a duplicate-target.
 
2:21 AM
Yes, I just saw that myself, but by only adding notices, we omit the work to clean those up.
I agree that starting a new work task targeting such a high number of questions, is not very motivational.
Now that this has been said, the duplicates of that question rather should have been closed with «needs debugging details». The close text could actually link to that «how to …» question for questions in R closed with «needs debugging details».
That is something I could post about in that latest MSE discussion brought up in here.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship What notices? Other than "historical lock", which generally isn't all that desired, because people do tend to update these, there are no such notices.
@Andreasdetestscensorship Why would you bring up a Stack Overflow specific issue on MSE under a question which is very explicitly not about this issue?
 
@Makyen A footnote, like those here would be useful on that question.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Yes, I agree. It's likely that the 100k+ questions would need to be evaluated, opened, and reclosed.
 
@Makyen I’d only bring up a request for moderators to be able to insert links into the text, that apply to specific tags, but I could put that on MSO instead.
@Makyen Ignoring the mistakes made in the past, we should at least make it clear what users are supposed to do today, so that we don’t continue seeing those mistakes being made today.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I have no idea what you're saying you want to have as a feature request.
 
2:32 AM
Insert links in the close
Sorry for that. Misclicks happen on mobile.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I don't know what you mean by that. If it's something that would require work by a developer, then it probably won't happen for years, if ever.
 
I didn’t finish my sentence before sending it. I meant to ask for a feature which allows moderators to add links to the general notice, post owner guidance, and guidance to others, when «needs debugging details» is used, These links are constrained to a tag, so that they are only shown for their respective tag, meaning the tag of the question.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I'm not sure which mistakes you're saying shouldn't continue. I'd assume that it's either or both of the "this type of question shouldn't be on SO main" issue and/or the "this type of question shouldn't be used as a duplicate target for a dup-closure when the real reason for closure is "needs debugging details".
 
I’d be able to better explain this once I actually made a post.
The mistakes: 1. closing as a duplicate instead of as «needs debugging details» or «unclear». 2. not searching MSO for guidance, because you mistakenly believe such guidance would be found on SO. 3. creating new questions on SO, that belong on MSO. 4. answering said questions on SO, instead of attempting an early migration to MSO.
@Makyen Yes, correct.
 
3:03 AM
Well, it seems to me that a better solution, and one which we could actually implement, is to have the How to create a Minimal, Reproducible Example help center article (which is already linked in the "needs debugging details" close notice) point either a single MSO post which gives a list of questions which are have specific per-language-tag advice.
 
3:21 AM
Yeah, sure, that's a fine solution, at least for now, but I'd still like to create a meta post for finding these SO posts, and target them for adding a notice, and leaving all other cleanup actions out of scope.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:42 AM
but probably spam, based on profile and the domain's history
 
@tripleee agree, it just got deleted
Oh well it got disputed I see now
dang
How would you very clever people go by flagging this? I mean he asked ChatGPT to make a program, which doesn't work and then asks SO to fix it? Is that OK?
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/75917058/fix-error-of-simulation-in-python-program
 
@user56700 lacks debugging details? needs more focus?
 
@tripleee Thanks I went for Needs more focus
 
@user56700 I don't , but if the asker sufficiently narrowed the question, then I don't think we should close the page. On the other hand, if they haven't narrowed the question, then I'd close it as Needing More Focus. If the question looks like they did nothing to try to self-solve and did no research, then that is what downvotes are for.
 
@mickmackusa You are right, but he didn't provide any details, just copy/paste code and then tracebacks without any explanation
he even agreed to my comment
lol
 
7:52 AM
@user56700 I'm not sure if I agree with your advice. That's kind of like trying to use a kite to get another kite out of a tree, isn't it?
 
I guess, bit surprised he/she didn't think of doing that
 
in a sense this feels like ChatGPT customer support; if it doesn't deliver what they hoped for, it should not be our problem
it's a flaw in the design that it doesn't know how to write proper code but is able to debug errors in the generated code when you ask it to
 
True
I'm so bad at guessing the correct flag omg
 
8:31 AM
@user56700 ...but if we delete it ...how will they earn more downvotes?!? /s
 
haha
at least people seem to be agreeing on the downvoting
 
8:45 AM
@karel consider binning after Russian was replaced with English
 
8:57 AM
@mickmackusa retracted CV because of editing
 
10:42 AM
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/75896746/ambiguous-invocation-on-whenactivated/75896807#75896807

Moderator deleted my accepted answer without any reason. What is the best medium to raise this issue?
 
@MuhammadSaqlain post on meta.stackoverflow.com
 
4b0
@MuhammadSaqlain Moderator never delete answer without any reason. Plagiarism , duplicate post , or other things which violate SO rule. Think about that. Moderator also human. Some time mistake happen if you think so, post your concern on meta.
 
I can't find a good meta FAQ but this one seems like a representative example of what we expect in such a question meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/380575/…
at the very least you can reasonably ask for the rationale; it is slightly peculiar that it was deleted without any feedback from the mod
 
10:57 AM
That deleted answer certainly doesn't look at all like an AI-generated post, and nor can I find anything it appears to be copied/plagiarized from.
 
11:13 AM
 
11:57 AM
Morning
 
4b0
Evening
 
Mornin'
 
12:42 PM
@SurajRao Converted to edits. They seem to be extensions to the question, not answers
 
1:19 PM
Why do we have a tag ? (It was just used to tag a question because it was asked in French)
 
Pourqois pas?
 
more to the point, why do we not have , , etc?
 
... or :)
 
and around 5000 others, depending on how you count
 
@tripleee none of those have questions, whereas does (142 at this point)
 
1:22 PM
searching for "swahili" finds 147 questions so it's not that they don't exist, as such
even 4 for Ndonga (-:
33 for Quechua
2 for Pirana but those are probably typos or incidental
 
@tripleee nvm, sorry. I missed the "not" in that sentence.
 
9 hits for Kirundi but only one of them is actually about the specific language (and probably off-topic)
 
A burninate request for it already exists. Seven years even. No action taken thus far.
 
2:21 PM
@Adriaan scratch that. Machine translation suggests it is indeed just a horribly bad question in English and Hindi
 
3:44 PM
@AdrianMole right? How else am I going to ask off-topic questions about my favorite Welsh song, Dacw 'Nghariad?!
 
@Makyen :D Yeah, I was getting it up on the site before we drove down to see family in San Antonio. Being here is my escape from my kids :P I appreciate the concern, though. :D
 
:)
I hope the trip to San Antonio went well.
 
4:21 PM
@Makyen We took the kids to a place with lots of activities (mini golf, laser tag, roller skating)... they'd never been skating before, so that was ... about what you'd expect. My husband got skates but I kept my shoes on because I'm not an idiot. :P
 
@Catija that sounds like an awesome time
only thing missing is go kart racing :-)
 
The closest they had were bumper cars but they weren't open whenever we tried to go on them.
The kids are 4 and 6 - they did the go karts at LEGOLAND in England last summer and it didn't bode well for my insurance rates in a decade.
 
LOL
Take my advice, start them out with minivans
 
To haul all of their friends around?
 
As someone who did not get a car until ~21, and until then when driving always drove a parent's minivan, I can say from experience it really tamped down on my urge to act like a race car driver
plus they are comfy and safe compared to, e.g. sedans
(oh, and the car I got at 21 was the minivan from my parents when one of them got a new car)
so I finally had a car... but it was an 11 year old Honda Odyssey 8-)
 
4:28 PM
Ah. Yeah, we don't actually have a mini van... right now we have two hatchback-y things. And the new car we just got about two months ago has a "sport" mode and Bennett loves going fast.
 
hatchback-y is probably good enough in that regard; very close to the sexiness factor of a minivan (that is to say... close to zero)
 
Dunno - this one's pretty nice looking :P kia.com/us/en/ev6
 
Hondas are popular with wanna-be racers, and I think that includes the CR-Vs
 
i started out with an old manual chevy silverado at 16, what was nice about it was it was so easy to work on. got it for $500 from family. second was a similar, but automatic, chevy corsica for $2500 after i wrecked the truck, then i replaced that with what i drive now when it started to have too many problems... now it's time for a new truck
 
I miss cars that were easy to work on
 
4:37 PM
Same. I used to work on my own cars. Now that you need a scanner to do pretty much anything I just let the dealer handle it. Car companies won I guess.
 
the corsica wasn't too bad to work on, but it was definitely harder. current truck is mostly fine, but parts are sooo expensive
replacing my bearings required a whole new assembly, $300 in parts for one wheel
 
I was taught how to change my oil. I won't do it now because it's too hard to get to. Though my newer car might be okay. This will be interesting when it's time to teach my kids basic maintenance
 
i still do that myself, i'd have all my services done elsewhere if there was a shop locally that i trusted
 
my car loan included pre-paying all of my oil changes for the next... 6 years? Figured why not
 
ah, that's nice
our dealership used to offer things like that
 
4:43 PM
I can't even add air to my tires any more with this car because they're filled with... nitrogen? Or something.
 
they closed their service shop with the covid lockdown and never reopened it
 
ugh, that sucks
 
@Catija Probably nitrogen. Do you have a nissan GTR?
 
for both
 
@NathanOliver Nah, the Kia EV6
 
4:46 PM
there was a sears auto here that i trusted for the longest time, i knew the mechanics there personally, but they too shutdown
 
I think my Telluride has nitrogen, but I still use regular air
 
huh, strange they would use nitrogen for that. I guess it's one way to keep people coming back to the dealer
 
Yeah, my understanding is that you can use regular air but the nitrogen doesn't expand and contract due to temperature changes, so you shouldn't need to refill them unless there's actually a leak.
 
then mine must have regular air, because when the temperature dropped, so did my tire pressure. That was a bit of a panic...
 
One reason they do nitrogen is because of the tire pressure monitors. If you live someplace cold the water in the regular air you put in your tire and freeze on the sensor and break/disable it.
 
4:49 PM
@NathanOliver What would you think would be the reason for nitrogen? More sport-y cars? I only ask because Kia markets the EV6 as a performance car
I'm also in Texas, so it doesn't really get cold enough to need to worry about freezing sensors. :P
 
@Catija it handles heat better so less tire performance lost when the tires get hot.
 
ah
 
I want helium in my tires. To go party .. balloons
 
lol
 
@NathanOliver 100%. Costco has the same deal. The one thing I do like is the nitrogen tires do lose air more slowly than a regular air tire
rene: starring in the 2023 remake of Flubber
 
4:55 PM
Hey, guys, ever heard about using buses? Or trains? Maybe biking?
 
hah
none of those options are remotely viable here
 
No? Elytra + fireworks? Well, at least I see some people are using electric cars. Phew.
 
i prefer warp plates
 
Floo powder does the trick.
Anyway. I'm phase shifting to the nearest dinner table. Time for lamb; yum, yum. Sad thing I don't have lamb heads to cook for now. Gotta get hold of some. :)
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Electric car and solar panels :D
 
5:04 PM
Public transportation is laughable in the US
there is no public transportation from my house to work, and it's a 20 minute drive in normal traffic. It's a straight shot on a very busy highway
If you live and work in a very major city, like NYC or Chicago, you might be okay. Anywhere else, ain't happening
 
I walk 10 feet from my bed to my desk.
 
heh. Sadly, my boss prefers me in the office
it's sooo much quieter then home, anyway
 
We briefly had an office in Austin but it was geared towards one of the Sales teams, so I never used it. We're remote-first, though, so most of us work from home.
 
5:18 PM
@Catija that'll be my commute in about 6 weeks.
 
@NathanOliver New job or new policy at your current job?
 
Moving. I'm moving from chicago to tampa to be closer to my mom and my work offered for me to work remotely.
 
It's great that they're willing to be flexible :)
 
Yeah, when they offered I was super excited. Means I don't have to go job hunting first thing after the move :)
 
@Catija Ah, so you don’t have them covered by snow in April. :)
 
5:30 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship Texas. If it snows here, I have bigger problems
 
Nah, I’d consider that a good sign we’re on the right track to solve global warming. :P
Never be too sure. I was out skiing in -15°C last week. Took a break in a cafe for half an hour, and when I came back out, it was 5°C. Rapid temperature changes.
 
@NathanOliver welcome to the east coast! Well, sort of
 
lol
I say the same thing. I don't really consider it the east coast, since it also has a west coast.
 
Yeah it's technically gulf coast
being in prime time zone is great though
weather-wise you won't see snow again, but you will have to deal with basically every hurricane that occurs each year
 
@aynber I saw a video of a train going through the 10th floor of a residential building in China, a while ago. The residents were happy they literally had the train stop next to their doors. Maybe you’d prefer that?
 
5:35 PM
I'm willing to make that deal. Sure hurricanes are getting worse but Tampa is pretty safe weather wise
 
@TylerH @tripleee binning this, as your request was sniped by gre_gor re: the same request a moment earlier
 
sure, no worries
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship was this a suspended train track or were there 9 subterranean floors?!
 
@TylerH It was high up in the air.
Might’ve been this. That’s just the 7th floor, though.
 
OK, so a suspended track
I find those pretty cool
probably because of comic book depictions of cities e.g. Gotham and Metropolis that had elevated rails
 
5:41 PM
Well, yeah, it’s awesome. I also have a thing for Metropolis stuff (R&C’s interpretation especially so), but I don’t think I’d wanna live there myself. Not sure if it’s because of the train or the apartment. I prefer living in a house, far away from people.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship A train anywhere would be preferable. If I want to take the train to uptown, I have to drive 25 minutes to get to the light rail. If I want to take a train to another city, first I have to hope that the train goes there, then I have to drive 40-45 minutes to get to that station.
Neat. That suspended track makes me think of Disney World :-D I think the monorail goes right through the Polynesian like that
 
@aynber Well, don't stop believin', but only if you leave at midnight
 
@aynber I guess trains are nice, but they’re not particularly flexible. They work in tight cities, or between long distances, but I grew up near my country’s second largest city, and we live quite scattered here, between the mountains and on the islands.
10 buses per day, and I’m taller than average, so especially on the older buses, I wouldn’t fit. I honestly hate buses, but they have their uses. We depend on cars here (well, I moved now), but they’re not optimal. Trains can’t work here whatsoever.
 
Huh, I wonder how far the buses go out of town. I know there's an express line to a town to the west of me
 
If I want to go between my old and new city, I can do it with 2 trains (15 hours via the capital), by bus (10-11 hours), or by flight (45 minutes, excluding to/from the airports). The choice is obvious. Flying is also the cheapest.
 
5:53 PM
Looks like it comes as far south as my office complex and no further. Good to know. heh
 
@aynber Well, that sounds just good enough for you, at least.
 
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
8:22 PM
 
9:00 PM
@TylerH could this be a valid question?
It seems, at the least, about programming, in that it's about a software algorithm.
 
is it about programming? I don't see any indication of that
but maybe that is due to a lack of understanding about this "geometric data structure" business the tags talk about
To me, it looks like a graphical representation of a mathematical algorithm, at best. But if someone who is more familiar with this kind of thing thinks it's a programming thing, I won't argue with them about it being reopened.
 
It seems like it's about a programming data structure: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadtree
 
9:23 PM
@RyanM So looks like it is a graph that requires some code... however, despite the lack of any code given, OP seems to ask multiple questions including some that are opinion-based, so I don't know that it's worth reopening even beyond the issue of whether it's technically programming-adjacent enough
 

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