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12:07 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
2:11 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
3:22 AM
 
4:10 AM
Should this answer be flagged as "Not an answer" or "Rude or abusive" (some HTML code with the users name)?
 
@Nimantha I wouldn't flag it as NAA or R/A, as it's not clearly naa or rude without additional context. A mod flag would be better, if you feel the answer should be brought to the attention of mods. I'm inclined to just delete it though.
 
@Braiam this doesn't seem to compute. "Human determination" refers to the moderator
You can't say you want the moderator to determine the merit and also the moderator to not determine the merit
 
@cigien Noted! Also, in future (it was from the low quality review queue), for those types of answers, should I add the default "this is commentary on another post" comment (As I've done) or just leave no comment or a custom comment such as "This doesn’t answer the question" like the first comment?
 
4:28 AM
@Nimantha It depends. Personally, I try to only leave comments in cases where I feel the OP will pay attention to it. I mostly don't end up leaving comments often. So long as the comment isn't incorrect, it's fine to leave one. Especially on answers that are very likely to be deleted, and cleaning up the comments won't be needed, it doesn't do any harm.
 
@cigien Got it, thanks! Also mod flagged the answer
 
np. Sounds good.
 
5:09 AM
back on maintenance?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:13 AM
Close reasons have changed. NEW: "Not About Programming" see: answer to: "Retiring Our Community-Specific Closure Reasons for Server Fault and Super User"
13
I've made the requested changes to SO's community-specific close reasons, replacing the SU- and SF-specific ones with a broader "Not about programming or software development" one.
 
7:03 AM
@tripleee lots of views but very poor question
 
How do you close a question that asks if their code works? The answer is Yes, but it is not a valuable question. It certainly would have been avoided if they ran their own friggin code before asking. stackoverflow.com/q/73215796/2943403
 
I voted "needs details or clarity" (why did they think it would work differently?)
 
I just read their comment under the question. They had a typo elsewhere in their application. I went Typo. thanks.
 
 
1 hour later…
jps
8:21 AM
Finally we have reached our goal, no remaining cv-pls and just one del-pls request. All users post quality questions, nothing to close anymore, what a wonderful day ;)
 
No explicit promotion but it's just some sort of news article. I suspect it might turn into spam. If not, it's not even fit for any other stack - it's not a question.
 
8:40 AM
Request Generator update: Version 2.0.2 (GitHub) (install); Adjust to new "Not About Programming" close reason; use SE changed selector for top-bar and user's profile link in the top-bar.
19
 
@VLAZ Can't see it anymore except for the title but it looks like something that should be deleted as quickly as possible and that's what red flags do and are for.
 
@VLAZ Yes, Spam or R/A are both fine for that
@VLAZ The political angle makes me suspect that it's promoting information against the politician in question.
 
9:01 AM
@Makyen Yay! That topbar exception made it very noisy to develop other user scripts while running the request generator.
 
@StephenOstermiller I appreciate your point. I'm glad to get that fixed, so it doesn't impact you and others. However, I think we might have different definitions of "very noisy" with respect to console output. :) OTOH, an actual error, rather than just logging, is frustrating, annoying, and distracting from other activities.
 
@RyanM Same. Although it could have also been an attempt to promote an online publication. Or both.
I'm getting quite tired of US political information warfare. I know far too much about US politics without having any interest in them.
 
Does this question need details or clarity?
 
9:18 AM
And no sooner do I complain about US politics, it seems the latest Smokey report is about Chinese politics.
 
Yes possible
 
jps
Re SD Report the user got triggered by the chinese sentence in the question that said some disparaging remarks.
 
Yeah, just checked them as well. Not sure what the appropriate action here is
 
jps
such stetements about countries are certainly also perceived as R/A
this should generally have no place on SO.
 
The whole question has been handled by a mod now.
 
jps
9:26 AM
best solution
 
9:36 AM
 
10:31 AM
probably a duplicate too; I recall seeing very similar questions in the recent past
 
 
1 hour later…
11:47 AM
 
11:57 AM
Morning
 
12:10 PM
Spam²
 
1:32 PM
"I don't know what your agenda is but if you interfere with my agenda I will call the moderators on you"
Don't threaten me with a good time, sir
 
Can you get a moderator by calling 112?
 
What is 112, Adrian Model?
 
It's the netherlands emergency number IIRC
like 911 in America
 
Here in India, it is 100
 
It's the international standard emergency telephone number: Police, Fire Brigade, Ambulance, Coastguards, Moderators, Thought Police, etc.
 
1:36 PM
oh yeah apparently it's like most of the world
 
Most countries have their own numbers (999 in the UK, 911 in the US) but I think 112 works in most countries, as well.
 
Would you call Ryan M.?
 
@V2Blast thank you
 
and our daily DDoS is back :(
2
 
Does USA not use 112?
 
1:40 PM
@Dharman 911
 
> United States (alongside 911, 112 forwards to 911 on GSM carriers only, including AT&T and T-Mobile.)
Interesting.
 
Thanks for finding that, otherwise I might have gotten too curious and dialed it on my phone.
 
@Dharman The USA using an internationally agreed upon standard, lol
 
barrel of laughs there
you're asking the nation that uses its own measuring systems if it adheres to international standards?! :-P
 
"Here comes the metric system!"
 
1:42 PM
@AdrianMole No. The number for getting emergency moderator help is a bit more complex
 
(granted, our own systems are of course far superior to everyone else's)
 
Well, the UK Pint is superior to (i.e. "bigger than") the US Pint.
 
I found out the other day we don't even buoy our water ways the international way: history.stackexchange.com/questions/69030/…
 
I think people in US called Uber anyway instead of 112
 
Well, it's certainly cheaper than an ambulance.
 
1:44 PM
only if they don't have the app yet
your first ride's free after installing
 
It's ridiculous. How can someone pay for ambulance
 
112 dialled in Florida probably get forwarded to the Cuban coastguards. ;-)
 
@Dharman capitalism
 
I agree, not ideal. But, on the other hand, some individuals use an ambulance as a free taxi.
 
What you all are talking about, I am not able to understand anything :0
 
1:46 PM
@Dharman Makes sense. Lots of tourists and they want to capture any attempt. Few Euro phones use CDMA so Verizon can skip that
 
@Dharman usually debt, that's how
because it's like $7,000
 
@V2Blast FINALLY
 
@TylerH I think the question is more like "Why would ambulance be something a patient is charged for"
 
I just checked the ambulance deductible on my insurance plan. Surprisingly $0.
 
Currently, why only SO's chatroom is working?
 
Tim
1:48 PM
@Dharman unless ambulances, the equipment they carry and the paramedics who drive them are all free / unpaid, someone has to pay for the ambulance
 
When I go to the site, say for questions, it says the service is unavailable.
 
@VLAZ Yes I was just being cheeky
 
Tim
@SunderamDubey probably DDoSes
 
@SunderamDubey Chat is on a separate server from the main sites
 
@TylerH Can confirm, fainted b/c of heat like 3 years ago and got treated (despite me asking if i could just walk) to a $5,000, four block, weewoo wagon ride. I eventually got it down to like $400 but still....
 
1:48 PM
It's interesting
:)
 
@code11 yeah you pretty much just have to adamantly refuse the ride or else they'll practically arrest you and take you along for the debt
 
@TylerH And it was a privately owned ambulance company! Its so bad.
 
In their defense, they open themselves up to you suing them if you were actually sick and they left you.
But yeah, I imagine that some ambulance companies are less than scrupulous.
 
Now, the error goes away, everything is fine.
 
@Tim In a normal country, this kind of thing is covered by taxes
 
1:51 PM
We only spend our taxes on fighter jets here. =P
 
healthcare cost in the US are just outrageous. Everything is priced expecting you to have insurance to cover the price gouging. If you don't, then you are left with a big bill and are left with trying to negotiate. The hospitial wanted to charge my friend $4500 to do a MRI, and I was able to find a chain that does the same scan using the same machines for $800.
 
I wonder what it would cost for an American to use ambulance in EU
 
If you are coherent and capable of mobility and not in any imminent danger of expiration, then for the most part you can tell the ambulance to sod off
 
I am pretty sure it would still be free.
 
@Dharman what it would cost the American or what it would cost the taxpayers?
Yeah, the American would likely pay nothing
most EU nations AFAIK extend free coverage to any tourist for the most part
 
1:52 PM
@Tim How very american of you
 
@TylerH My youngest broke her arm several years ago and we were able to decline an ambulance ride for that
 
I think the costs incurred by an EU government in ferrying a US tourist to hospital in an ambulance are probably lower than those that would be incurred if they just left the poor bugger on the street to die. :)
 
The problem for them is they respond to every medical call, ride or not, so they have to make up for it somewhere
 
As much fun as talking about ambulance regulations are, I am hiring my first full time data scientist who reports fully to me. I'm admittedly nervous. Any tips?
 
Ask on workplace.se?
 
1:55 PM
best of luck!
 
Don't believe any statistical analyses.
 
4 out of 5 people can make up a statistic.
 
@NathanOliver Yes, I have considered that. But the questions of this type I've found haven't been well received.
 
6 out of 7 dwarfs are not Happy.
 
1:56 PM
@IanCampbell There are 3 types of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics
 
If I understand Irish rules correctly, there's a limit on how much I can pay. hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/patient-care/…
 
Luckily, I know statistics how to lie pretty well.
 
So, given I have no insurance and I am not entitled to free medical treatments, I think I can pay max 800 euros per year
But the ambulance might still be free anyway...
 
@IanCampbell Oh no! The first rule of lying is to not admit you're lying!
 
@code11 Maybe that statement was a lie. Wait...
 
1:58 PM
@VLAZ This statement is false
 
I only tell lies.
 
Tim
@Dharman or insurance but sure, normally people don’t like to have sudden, unexpected, unavoidable payments.
@ZoestandswithUkraine not advocating for people paying directly, just pointing out someone has to pay. That’s no more American than it is Swiss, British or Rwandan 🤷‍♂️
 
Oh, "Not about programming or software development" is a close reason now. Neat.
 
I think the thing that kills me the most about the US system is that as a healthcare facility, we often ask insurance companies for prior authorization for a lab test. Most of the time, they will approve it so we know how much the out of pocket cost for the patient/family will be. But sometimes, the response is "we don't make determinations if a test is medically necessary in advance, perform the test and then we will tell you whether we will cover it."
 
2:04 PM
I think that's from merging the old "Super User" and "Server Fault" reasons.
 
That's just highway robbery.
 
@TylerH I want the moderator do determine nothing, but be the "borrowed knife" of the expert.
The experts are the one that should make that determination.
Moderators have said until kingdom come that they can't validate technical accuracy, so I want to rely solely on experts to do so.
 
@Braiam you may have never heard of the phrase 'trust but verify'
there are plenty of examples I could lean on of SMEs performing harmful actions here (the mods even had to create a rule and threaten bans because one particular group was getting so bad)
 
@TylerH Moderators have verified that they can not be trusted in this instance.
 
Since "missing an import statement" was the resolution here, does that fall under "Typo"? stackoverflow.com/q/15789361/4294399
 
2:11 PM
Admittedly themselves did that. I won't force someone to do judgement on content they refuse to do.
 
Giving regular users the ability to unilaterally delete content they disagree with would be rather chaotic and definitely harm SO
 
@TylerH That's the thing, they don't need to disagree. They just need to tell that it's wrong on technical merits.
 
And who determines whether they're BSing or telling the truth? And whether they're right?
we don't have to always determine the latter
 
Also, I expect experts to be able to police themselves better, since they are less homogeneous and less likely to the bubble effect.
 
but we do always need to determine the former, when we're talking about unilateral deletion
 
2:13 PM
@TylerH Well, it's better than giving someone the ability to do something and refusing to use that ability.
 
that's a much higher level of trust, which only moderators have conferred on them
 
@TylerH And look what have they done with it.
 
@Braiam Moderators delete answers all the time
 
In "defense of content" they made anything "content", including objective trash
 
i mean
moderators have definitely deleted garbage answers upon request
I don't see a reason for such vitriol.
 
2:18 PM
Anything that requires us to make a content quality judgment is likely to get a decline. I can tell if answer A is mostly the same as answer B, but I cannot tell if answer A is entirely wrong
 
@Machavity And that's why I don't want you to do that assessment.
I want actual experts to do so.
 
open a feature request
 
What if two actual experts disagree? Who's side should the moderator(s) take?
 
that of the 3rd expert, obviously
 
hehe - then all three will be wrong, by definition.
 
2:25 PM
Okay but the 4th expert is clearly the most trustworthy. You know what they say, "3 in every 4 dentists recommend", right? That 4th dentist has to know something the others don't.
 
@AdrianMole We just suspend them both and let Meta work it out :P
 
Aah ... Meta! Where a toxic mob can acquire the powers of a moderator without requiring any subject-matter expertise. :)
2
 
2:39 PM
@NathanOliver I was right. Downvoted in the first five minutes. =P
 
Dang.
 
2:53 PM
argh, darned DDoS preventing me from flagging more NLN comments
 
Hmmmm. I just got rate limited, but I don't even have any userscripts running on this machine
 
it's a bug with their new traffic management system
one of the various downsides of this new thing is that it will rate limit some users randomly during DDoS as part/side-effect of its mitigation efforts
 
Well that's fun...
Good to know though. I was really confused at what happened.
 
Why SO every time, in every 10-15 minutes closes for 1-2 minute for maintenance?
I was answering
 
@SunderamDubey It's default message when it can't reach the back end
 
2:58 PM
@Braiam Do you mean its problem from my side?
 
@SunderamDubey No, it's SE side. That's what "back end" usually means
 
Do you also not able to open now, please check?
 
@SunderamDubey The site is be attacked via DDoS. We will probably have issue for most of the day with slowness and or the website being down
 
leave, now the message goes.
@NathanOliver Yes, possible.
Now, it again shows message the service is unavailable.
:(
We are offline
 
@SunderamDubey It's the website. Nothing any of us can do but be patient or maybe even go.. outside
 
3:04 PM
@NathanOliver Right, sorry.
 
3:55 PM
 
@NathanOliver @TylerH @Dharman Interestingly, both 911 and 112 are "standard", as set by the ITU (see ITU-T E.161.1 #5; link to section #5 in PDF download) (Wikipedia) (Wikimedia Commons: Emergency telephone numbers in the world.svg).
 
4:13 PM
@Makyen can you make that not a direct download link? It scared the heck out of me
 
@NathanOliver I'm not sure which one you mean. Do you mean the ITU one? It's to the PDF of the standard.
 
@Makyen The ITU link just automatically downloads the pdf when clicking on it. I was not expecting that
 
@NathanOliver I'm happy to change it, but I didn't quickly find an ITU URL which was authoritative which wasn't a PDF. I edited to at least explain that the link will go to a PDF download. I'm open to suggestions.
 
4:29 PM
That's fine. It's the download with no indication is what was scary. Now I know :)
 
OK. I'm sorry about that.
 
No worries
 
That last SD report is one of the few questions that could sensibly flagged as VLQ, though if I was a mod I wouldn't decline an R/A flag either
 
I R/A flagged it, which was marked helpful
 
5:56 PM
 
@SunderamDubey Chat has usually stayed up even if sites go down.
 
6:43 PM
while 6 to 8 years old by now, it is good to have a general idea what is used to run the websites on: nickcraver.com/blog/2016/02/17/…
 
@rene always a fun read
would love to see a 2022 version of that blog post by whoever took Nick's place
 
@TylerH same. Would be a good blog article. If we had a good blog. You can pitch it ...
 
7:07 PM
whoa
just got out of sync in the close vote queue
a question wouldn't load the close modal so I clicked the button again, two modals loaded but I had already clicked vote on the first one before the second one did
then I just closed them both and skipped the item to be safe
went through two more posts, but at the end of the second one it reloaded and showed a third
seems like a couple votes either didn't go through but still registered as completed items in the queue for me and/or the votes got shifted somehow
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Why that needs report?
 
@Braiam It's trolling.
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Again, why? Smoke is for spam, isn't?
 
@Braiam Trolling too.
 
7:16 PM
Can y'all keep an eye on up to 03:00 UTC to make sure nothing else gets added to it? It didn't get removed, and I can't tell if it was because of questions interfering, or if it's stuck (the only question I saw was four hours old, and wouldn't have conflicted with the tag's destruction, but the synonym page says 0 questions, so I don't really know what to make of it).
2
 
Smokey tracks and supports classifications for posts of the following types: spam, rude, abusive, offensive, vandalism, plagiarism, non-English language, and NAA posts, at the very least. Might also cover some additional things I am not aware of.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine though a little before 03:00 UTC is arguably the only bit that matters. Watching it constantly for 8 hours is probably a bit of a waste
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Well, someone should have scheduled that chat message a little more precisely... :-P
 
Someone should've scheduled tag removal at a time that isn't 5 (local time) in the morning :p
 
there's never been a better excuse to move to another timezone
 
7:25 PM
UTC-7 is lovely this time of year
 
there's never been a better excuse to move work to someone else :p
Shopping seems to be an annoyingly popular tag though, which is weird considering it barely had questions in the first place
 
7:48 PM
 
8:20 PM
I'm not going to spam the place up, but let's just say there's a lot of general computing in
 
oh yeah
 
Stack Overflow curation somehow works despite the fact that someone could, if they wanted to, find hundreds of off-topic questions in any of countless different ways.
 
I have to say it's a bit surreal to see people actually using the close reason I spent so much time working on. (with the help many others, of course)
 
@HenryEcker Thanks for all the hard work! It's really appreciated :-)
 
It is a little silly looking to see all that explanatory text on the reason but it is nice to have that combined reason :-)
Now we just need to figure out what additional custom site reason we want to add to fill in the newly-available slot
"We don't feel like answering this right now, come back on Tuesday"
 
8:28 PM
If we look purely at # of custom close reasons (which is what I did initially) the next most used is "Not in English"
@TylerH You mean in the close dialogue or the banner?
 
@HenryEcker I mean in the modal window when choosing a reason
 
Yeah my tentative vote is "not in English", especially since it could have a friendly explanation
 
@RyanM Likewise thanks for all the help putting it together and getting it featured and reveiwed
 
it's 4 solid lines of text; there is only one other that is even 2 lines and it is barely just 2
:-)
 
Why have a dedicated "Not in English" when Unclear works?
 
8:30 PM
@TylerH Yeah. I thought so too initially, and my initial close guidance text reflected that. But the more verbose was what the CM team was looking for given the multiple CMs involved in that particular wording.
 
@NathanOliver I think it's not really clear to both close voters and askers. We get custom flags sometimes, for instance. And for askers, they don't always understand if people don't comment; the question may be perfectly clear in their language.
 
So clear up the guidance for unclear? ;)
 
I think it's similar to why have "needs debugging details" when unclear works. Tailored guidance for why specifically this question needs more information (details) to be answered can be helpful.
 
@NathanOliver That is...actually not a bad idea. Though I'm also currently unable to think of anything better than non-English for the fifth custom reason.
Proposals are, of course, welcome.
 
Customer support questions was the other category of custom close reasons. (But nowhere near as frequent as Non-English)
 
8:37 PM
Oh...yeah, I think that one's currently overused already.
 
Maybe a dedicated one for homework dumps?
 
Advantage of a custom reason would be that we could make the boundaries very clear.
Disadvantage is that it would be much easier to use, and people aren't always super picky about the details of close reasons.
 
Reminder: quite a few options in the answers here Overhauling our community's closure reasons and guidance. homework dumps, non-english, and customer support all included.
 
Sweet, it's the second ask in the top answer
 
"Not a question but a copy/paste of a homework assignment" (as proposed there) is probably the only way I'd be at all okay with that. It would allow us to tailor the requirements for homework closure. e.g., "While specific questions about homework assignments are allowed, simply copy-pasting an entire exercise and asking for a solution or where to start is not sufficiently focused for a Stack Overflow question."
 
8:42 PM
^ that is what I would love to have.
I've got no problem helping on a homework assignment, but I'm not just going to do it for them
 
The same argument applies here, though: does "Needs more focus" not adequately cover this?
 
Is there something about this that has kept it alive for 12 hours?
... I guess not! :)
 
It hadn't made it through first answers yet?
 
@AdrianMole well, not specifically about that... i.stack.imgur.com/9mjjT.png
you were, until quite recently, the only flagger, so it wasn't bumped super high in priority.
 
Hehe - It's just very unusual for such an obvious NAA to survive so long.
 
8:47 PM
@RyanM The guidence for that is This question should include more details and clarify the problem.. IMHO that doesn't apply to a homework dump. Generally they are clear that they want someone to give them the codez and it genrally has all the details needed to give them said codez
 
@NathanOliver That's not "Needs more focus"
 
Woops, copied the wrong one. It's even worse for needs more focus. This question currently includes multiple questions in one. It should focus on one problem only. is the guidance and a homework dump really only asks a single question.
 
@AdrianMole Well, the really obvious NAAs are the ones that I can assess+delete in 1-2 seconds. This one took at least 5 and a cursory glance at the other answer to be sure it was a reply to it.
 
Hmm. I guess I can understand that ...but I found it through a Natty report in SOBotics, so I'm surprised others didn't.
 
Well Natty has over 5,000 unactioned reports at the moment, so quite a few reports are not handled regularly.
 
8:50 PM
Natty needs a Scooby Snack?
 
@NathanOliver I think it shows something different to askers, but not sure... sadly, Henry's question requesting this information has gone unanswered.
 
It'd help if Natty had an API endpoint for feedback and/or a working dashboard. Chat rate limits and pulling blocks of reports via chat really impact the ability to clear and resolve those reports.
 
Generally, when I see that I have "pending" flags more than a few hours old, I'll revisit them. I offer a delete vote on those I'm still sure about or (very occasionally) retract a flag if I see there may be room for doubt.
 
@RyanM It's weird because you can pull any site's site-specific close reasons through SEDE, but the network-wide reasons just aren't available.
 
@HenryEcker If you want the rep for answering it, I could cycle one of your questions through each of the reasons... :-)
I promise to reopen it after.
 
8:56 PM
@RyanM I appreciate the offer. That was also the joke I made earlier. But, even the current text doesn't quite answer the question. The SEDE query includes information about all reasons. When they were activated/deactivated the exact text for all users.
That was really want I was looking for, not just what they look like today. But where that information is accessible for past and future.
 
Ah...well, the answer is probably that it's not accessible.
I don't think even the mod tools have it.
 
Also, please do not use the old removed close reasons anymore.
 
attempting to access it with some URL manipulation in the mod tools results in an error :-p
 
@RyanM Which is odd... Especially since the table has a "IsUniversal" column so I assume the information is in that table. It's just not exported to SEDE for whatever reason...
 
I think it was just overlooked as something people might want, since it's only editable by staff.
 
9:04 PM
I mean aren't all the other reasons are also only editable by staff?
 
Does checking that SD box on requests actually signal anything to the bot?
 
@miken32 No. It does not give any feedback to Smokey.
@miken32 Here's the last time I could find Makyen mentioned something about why those boxes are there in the generator. And here's the mod request to add NATO mentioned in that message.
 
I actually remembered that comment about the NATO box but not the preceding stuff about the SD box. Thanks
@EricJin You won't get much response from a bot, but it clearly attempts to answer the question. That it does so without any context or explanation doesn't matter for NAA purposes.
 
9:28 PM
@HenryEcker We can add/remove custom ones
(but not edit)
 
9:41 PM
Right two mods can add or remove, but not edit. I was just noting the "only editable by staff" logic doesn't give more reason to show the community specific than the network-wide since none are editable by users or mods.
 
10:17 PM
@EricJin I agree with you. That answer, and a number of other ones on that Q&A don't attempt to answer the question at the top of the page, "why does this code work?"
I'm not going to be NAA flagging them, but that won't stop me from casting delete votes.
 
10:30 PM
@mickmackusa You appear to have not added the link to the question.
 
Nuts.
 
10:43 PM
@mickmackusa Have you seen this question? stackoverflow.com/questions/5374202/…
 
11:04 PM
@Dharman ha. clearly I haven't, or I would have flamed on stackoverflow.com/a/63719906/2943403
Ah, wait, I commented two years ago stackoverflow.com/questions/5374202/…
 
I think this comment is no longer needed
 
Yeah sure. @Dharman Do you want to make the canonical? Want to merge it? Close it as a dupe?
 
I don't want to do anything with it right now
 
11:56 PM
 

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