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2 hours later…
02:47
1
Q: I'm feeling rather anti[social] today

EJoshuaS - Reinstate MonicaThe social tag has the following description: The term social refers to a characteristic of living organisms as applied to populations of humans and other animals. This clearly has nothing whatsoever to do with programming, not to mention being quite ambiguous. Can we get rid of this tag?

02:58
@Burnination-Feed wow, that tag wiki excerpt has got to be a new record for "totally unrelated to programming"
03:49
@Dharman Your bot is editing spam. Please try to avoid doing that. :;
In fairness to the bot, I could see humans failing to catch that it was spam instead of a genuine recommendation without having the Metasmoke report in front of them (at which point it's rather obvious).
Perhaps the bot should ignore anything reported by SD? Though that would also require waiting a bit to see if SD reports it after scanning.
Though also in fairness, it didn't edit the spam in a way that inhibited dealing with it, such as removing spam links.</musing>
05:08
@RyanM so all things counted, just ignore whether posts are spam, and let us deal with the fallout
@tripleee Yeah, agreed. It was @Makyen's objection originally, though, so perhaps there's something I'm missing.
05:29
I mod-flagged this to have the bounty removed yesterday so we can cv-pls (general computing - server admin) but it's still pending ... does it help if more people flag it? stackoverflow.com/questions/68547416/…
 
1 hour later…
07:44
@ThierryLathuille [tag:cv-pls]
@rene Thanks, I think I need some coffee...
sdc coffee thierry
@rene brews a cup of Macchiato for @thierry
well, not sure if that is strong enough ...
As miracles happen, it will be delivered in 10 minutes on the market place and will be just perfect, for sure!
08:12
@jps That's a new contender for Least Useful Screenshot.
@RyanM But it matches perfectly with the question which is extremely small and not clear at all.
That it does...
jps
jps
@RyanM at least it doesn't waste too much space
@tripleee this one had a similar problem
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it literally take more effort to post a screenshot rather than copy and pasting text?
^ maybe not spam but certainly unclear
08:27
posslbly trolling
@VLAZ AMEN to that
I see that at work all the time too, colleagues sharing screen caps rather than links so you can't possibly know the context
@tripleee I can sort of understand people who take screenshots of terminals. They all do support copy-paste but not always the same way. It's easy for a new-ish user to try to copy something and it wouldn't work. But there are plenty of screenshots of just code I see. For no apparent reason.
the same for twitter, or stuff on a web page
I can also see how linking to a snippet in the middle of a larger page is problematic, and how formatting could go awry if you try to copy/paste; but at least provide a link for context
(and let's fix those usability problems, those of us who can)
08:59
@tripleee It's because the camera is the tool that allow others to "see what I see"
If you want to share other memories of what happened, the camera is there to capture it. Descriptions are rarely done nowadays.
09:13
Is today the small screenshot day? The question was a little bit unclear, too - the only information other than the screenshot was the title: "ASTRACTIVEPHOTF" [sic]
@rene Sounds like a good solution.
Cool, I'll patent and find a site to spam my product.
oh, I thought this was Sock Overflow
@rene Just be careful; I hear sock puppets are frowned upon here.
Unrelated: is there a meta post on the topic of whether you're allowed to edit your closed question/answer into a completely different question/answer pair, if it doesn't invalidate any answers or comments?
10:28
@RyanM If it's closed, answers don't matter. They wouldn't exist anyways.
@RyanM Yes. There are. And there are completely different opinions on this. The posts have roughly the same votes. There's absolutely no consensus on it.
@RyanM here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/165199/… and the linked ones
@Makyen Thanks for letting me know. Generally, this should not happen often. Most spam seems to be deleted in less than 5 minutes and my bot only looks at 5 minute old answers. I don't consider this to be a huge problem as long as it doesn't remove spam. If there's an API from SD I can use to see if the post was reported, I can use it to skip such answers
10:53
@Vega Here, you dropped it [
@Tomerikoo The title of that question in the tab to the right...
@Braiam Sorry. I blame my broken screen. Since yesterday the left part has vertical lines. Didn't get time to look for a fix
@rene, could you bin my cv-pls manually?
Is it useful to send flag-pls spam for SD reports (that are actually spam) or iis that just noise?
(for clarity, I'm asking if I should be doing this when I visit a post reported by SD - not referring to anyone else)
@Dharman There is an API for MS, but it may be more efficient to listen for SD reports on the MS WebSocket, assuming that the volume of posts that you're checking is significantly higher than the number which SD reports. Doing it that way would reduce network traffic and wouldn't delay your checking, as any WebSocket notification of a report being generated for a post should be well before the 5 minutes at which you test posts.
@snakecharmerb If smokey already posted it, I don't see why posting it again would help
@snakecharmerb It's not unreasonable to do so, but most of such reports which are definitely spam are handled relatively quickly.
11:20
Thanks both
@Makyen Is there API documentation? Listening to websocket would be probably too much for me. I only edit ~5 posts per hour.
@snakecharmerb if the post seems to have been missed (like it's been up for an hour, or is really egregious and has been up for more than 15-20 minutes) I have sometimes posted another flag-pls here in recent times
@Dharman The MS API documentation is here. That volume is considerably lower than I'd assumed.
I guess it could also be closed as opinionbased, but it seems like XY at the moment
12:22
Does it change anything to downvote spam (in addition to flagging)?
@Tomerikoo That you have less votes.
@Tomerikoo Gets it out of public view faster (by removing from the homepage) if it goes low enough. Which is mostly good, but can result in fewer flags due to fewer people seeing it. Though if it's in here, it'll get enough flags, so...I'd say on balance it doesn't hurt to also downvote it if you so desire.
@Tomerikoo People with delete priv can delete them faster, in case it takes time for a moderator to see the flag.
@klutt But why...? Spam should be flagged, not voted to delete.
@Braiam I think you get them back when the post is deleted. See, e.g., how @JeanneDark manages to downvote far in excess of 40 posts a day.
12:26
@RyanM Yes, but again, doesn't serve other purpose.
@Braiam I don't see anyting wrong with deleting them. And you can still flag them after they are deleted, right?
But yeah don't delete-vote blatant spam, it should be removed via flags. Deleting it doesn't impose the spam penalties.
@klutt It prevents other users from flagging, so no, other users can't flag it.
@klutt By deleting explicitly you waste a vote and the OP doesn't get the spam penalty. If 6 people flag as spam it gets deleted anyway and doesn't need special handling by a mod
Ok. Did not know that.
12:29
I checked just now, you can't flag as spam deleted posts.
Pretty sure you can only mod flag deleted content.
12:50
@Scratte ...did they think it was C#, maybe?
@RyanM I don't know what they thought ;) ..and I didn't ask :) But.. someone found another very peculiar edit, where I made a teeny tiny comment.
@klutt You can... but red flags are their own category and unlike the mod queue, there's rarely anything in it.
There's also the fact that a sustained red flag prevents you from posting whatever you spammed (i.e. a spam answer will ban you from posting answers)
Am I wrong in voting to delete this answer as link-only? I mean, I know that it gives you something to go with (UsedRange) but aren't answers supposed to be self-contained and an answer sending you to do a search is basically a comment
Did they just make all comment-links in ones profile non-link coloured?
They even called the class "timeline-answers".. ?!?
13:11
@Scratte With something like this, please provide a link, or at least state the specific page within profiles. Without doing so, anyone who's interested in helping you has to go looking through profiles to try to find what you're seeing. This consumes considerable time, particularly if they can't find it.
I was just finding my own comment. I used https://stackoverflow.com/users/USERID/USERNAME?tab=activity&sort=all
Then I noticed some of the links were black instead of link-blue. Except.. it's very confusing when one has put a link to a post into a comment, because then the link to the comment is black while the link inside the comment is blue.
But.. if you go to https://stackoverflow.com/users/USERID/USERNAME?tab=activity&sort=comments none of the comment links are link-blue. Since they're all "timeline-answers"
I would have linked a timeline-comments to set them apart from.. answers.
@Scratte Thanks. Yes, it appears that they did. The color was masked for me, because I override the colors of links.
I made mine an ugly green.. and it's everywhere :O But.. not an answer links :D
@Scratte liked.. not linked. I guess answer links are "answer-hyperlink". I'm going to guess that it was two different individuals that came up with those two names.
Overriding stuff on the Stack user interface seems to be the only thing that keeps people from total insanity ;) Which explains why it takes a while to get settled.. all that CSS needs to be written first.
13:31
@Tomerikoo Are there other answers that are better?
@Braiam There's another answer actually showing how to use UsedRange (the review is already completed as Look OK)....
Correction: Both other answers show how to actually use it...
13:44
@Tomerikoo Bah, then delete it.
@Braiam Yeah thanks. I mod-flagged...
14:14
@Tomerikoo that image is actually pretty good
it's not tilted/rotated, it's clear, the text is easily readable, the image has good contrast, it shows everything it needs to show, includes a URL to access the same environment
If all images of code were like that one, we probably wouldn't have a rule about no images of code, tbh
@TylerH I love that you can see the silhouette of someone taking a picture with the phone. Nice touch
@Tomerikoo Yeah, that's pretty unavoidable for images of reflective surfaces
It requires its own field of experts for things like movies
the worst ever contenders have serious glare and 64x64 pixel resolution
@TylerH That sounds like a stretch but yeah I agree there were worst images...
:52811906 [This answer](stackoverflow.com/a/68716916/5320906t one is kinda spammy - is it flaggable (as VLQ or NAA if not spam)?
14:18
I would venture to say this is a contender for the best image of code rather than the worst... the person almost deserves praise for how good it is :-) ... almost
@snakecharmerb Yes it is spam (it is also NAA), but spam is more important
wat
massively active question from 2009 with multiple pages of answers
some (presumably new) user decides it's worth writing an answer that repeats every existing answer, but as a comment
:confusedjackiechan:
oh, no, they've been a member for 6 and a half years
14:52
Am I seeing a bug? Is it just on my device? ArtisticPheonix has over 20K rep as far as I know, but on this page, they have just 81 stackoverflow.com/a/9105079/2943403 Is this a glitch? Identity theft? a poorly disguised sockpuppet? Should it be merged?
@TylerH Age is not important. Contributions is important. Maybe member for 6 and a half years and didn't do anything. And maybe a member for 6 days but done some little contributions. :)
@mickmackusa weird... doing a search on that username returns 0 results.
@mickmackusa They have just 81 reputation points. that is all. maybe you conflicted with another user.
Also they are Unregistered user. Member for 9 years (Since 2012). Last seen was from 9 years (In 2012).
15:11
@KevinM.Mansour age is a good indicator for "whether they ought to know how the site works, on a very basic level" (see also: "why was everyone so upset about 'member since' getting removed). E.g. "do answers belong as answers or as comments on Stack Overflow?"
@mickmackusa This is the account you are thinking of stackoverflow.com/users/3684882/artisticphoenix
@mickmackusa The lower reputation account is older than the high-rep account by more than two years, and is, as already mentioned, unregistered. Based on that info and that both accounts use both an identical username and identical avatar, it's likely the lower-rep account is the original account for that user. Merging would be something the user could request.
Why those stuff don't get deleted? Answer setting at -53, what do you need more to prove it is bad and deserve deletion?
@KevinM.Mansour we hope it helps!
@KevinM.Mansour There are people that upvotes that, and with enough it would be a net gain.
Also, 20kers can vote to delete.
@Braiam Should I make a request to delete this?
It has two votes today
16:51
@Braiam It is setting at +4/-57. 4 loved it (Not sure why, maybe someone voted by wrong) and 57 that definitely loved it. definitely should be deleted. :)
@Braiam It needs 3 to get deleted, no?
Yes
@Braiam How can you see that?
@Tomerikoo Timeline
+1. It got deleted. :)
Oh cool I thought the votes summary is only for up/down votes
17:04
Is this post on topic? Doesnt seem to be any specific programming question to me
17:19
Does anyone know SEDE query for questions deleted over time in a given tag?
17:30
@Dharman As it happens, I've actually written that exact query
Thanks
17:50
@RyanM I think that per week would soften the weekly roomba
@Dharman Year-month ;)
Week is probably better, but slightly harder to write :-p
Wait, tsql doesn't have a week????
Though I find it interesting to see the variation in Roomba spikes (including some weeks where the Roomba is clearly having issues)
No, it's totally doable, it's just slightly more work and I don't know how to do it off the top of my head :-p
17:59
@Braiam It does, wk or ww, but you have to use datepart IIRC
I don't know about other SQL implementations
I think I did it once
select datepart(wk, getdate())
iso_week seems to be the recommended one to avoid implementation details.
Deletions in PHP peaked around 2014 and have been declining since then data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1447486/…
Clearly, I am not deleting enough
@Dharman you'll want to click the "permalink" link I think
18:03
Also it seems to deal with year changes dba.stackexchange.com/a/81262/30625
@Dharman time to become a moderator
A query with year_isoweek, but without graph :( data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1447496/…
@Dharman You have deleted the half of the site. ;)
 
1 hour later…
19:24
I messed up my Windows locale setting somehow
@Dharman How it feels reading japanese?
:) I only lost emoji support
Not sure what I have done
@Dharman What did you do?
I wish I knew
@KevinM.Mansour In Windows case, I would ask instead if there's any recent update.
20:01
@Braiam If you turned a setting off in Windows, An update won't revert it. :)
@KevinM.Mansour HA!
yeah, i mean, i disabled cortana years ago, and yet here it is
same with their web search
@Braiam Really? An update won't do something like this. I am sure that the user have played in setting somewhere. :)
@KevinM.Mansour It's very hard to do so.
@Braiam An update won't do something like this at all. Updates don't change the language of Windows. :)
20:09
Windows updates can do all the things. They have randomly deleted files, certificates or settings more than once.
(Not trying to start a round of Windows bashing here, other OSs also have achieved that feat.)
@BaummitAugen OK. But again, at least for me, Windows has never changed a setting for me Or downloaded a language pack at all. :)
The absence of evidence is not proof of absence.
C++17, verse 3
@NathanOliver Right. But everything also need logic to work. :)
20:23
lol, windows, logic :)
@NathanOliver Yes. Windows update delete file, create new files, edit existing files but don't download a language pack at all. :)
Can someone confirm that Emoji's work in Windows console?
and I mean either Git Bash or WSL
cmd?
I enter 🤣 in WSL and I see a box
i don't have either, :shrug:
20:30
in CMD I see two boxes
same
@Dharman Wrong encoding perhaps? I think Windows still uses UTF16, but correct me if I'm wrong
even using win+. gives me boxes
lol
What do you see when you run locale?
@Dharman Git Bash: Yes, working.
20:32
Using any Linux terminal and UTF8 should work, if a font that contains the glyph is installed.
AFAIK, the comand prompt uses DOS encoding. Apperently you should be able to use cmd /u to switch it to UTF8
That said, cmder exists and I think it is much nicer
i wonder if the "new cross-platform Powershell" is any good
Can't say.
I haven't tried the new cross-platform Powershell, but I've tried the new Windows Terminal and it's excellent.
I was disappointed to find out that it wasn't cross-platform, because I'd love to replace my Linux terminal with it.
Apropos of nothing: I've been learning German and recently got to the point where I can translate the phrase "Baum mit Augen," and...yep, that checks out.
20:37
:)
I took three years of German in high school and enjoyed it. I don't really ever get a chance to use it though so i've forgotten most of it :(. I can still say Ich mochte bitte eine bratwurst :)
:52814069 aww, you deleted your message. I was going to comment on the moderator message trifecta!
I took several years of Spanish, and got to the point where I can read Spanish decently, but am absolutely hopeless at understanding conversational-speed speech. I took a different approach to learning German (much more focus on listening) and so far it seems to have worked out better.
Even English speech can confuse me depending on the dialect, and I work in English pretty much all day.
Foreign languages are hard.
That they are
20:46
This room is full of translators. ;)
@BaummitAugen It just hard to understand two languages since every language have it's own grammar and rules. :)
Also, the advantage of a speech-first approach is that my German sounds a lot better than it is ;-)
@BaummitAugen Yes. Speaking is different than writing. :)
@RyanM You will need Spanish most in Stack Overflow. I see many posts with Spanish everyday. :)
Ok, I installed Git Bash on laptop and emojis don't work there either
so I give up
That's Windows Terminal on Win10 to Ubuntu in WSL2. And by Windows Terminal I mean this thing, not the built-in one.
@KevinB I like it, though I only use it on Windows
@Dharman what happens when you press Win + :? Does an emoji picker come up on screen?
If yes, then you should be able to use emojis in the terminal
If not then you don't have the right version of Windows
21:01
@TylerH Yes, the emoji picker is available
mine does, but my terminal doesn't accept them
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ok, now everything is wrong i.sstatic.net/gswsn.png
lmao
The font changed to some "Cascadia mono"
I want Segoe back
@Dharman That behavior repros for me in Powershell, also through Windows Terminal... that's fascinating.
But it works normally in WSL. You can hit the little drop-down icon in the tab bar and pick your WSL instance there
21:05
@Dharman Welcome to new version of Windows...
are you on the insider track by any chance?
I'm on my last nerves :)
I am not on insiders. I am on the latest Windows version
@TylerH No, it didn't work
21:16
@TylerH You mean "Win + ;", not "Win + :", right?
@RyanM Ha, the thing is that some speakers speak like a carretilla
In my country, we speak stupidly fast.
@Makyen it's the same key
Tyler's Shift key: "Am I a joke to you?"
@RyanM Hey, I didn't say press Win + Shift + ;
@TylerH But it doesn't mean the same thing. "Win + :" means "Win + Shift + ;"
21:25
@Makyen no it means press the two keys labeled with the two labels I indicated
Win and :
@TylerH I disagree. That's definitely not how I read it and how I did try to follow your instructions.
I'm with Makyen; using the shifted character on anything that's not a letter means hold shift when pressing it.
Well then you read it wrong :-P
win + 🚽
Do you also read an implicit shift when you see "Win + G"?
or "Win + L"?
21:28
Win + Win
because Win + L is lock, but only if you press the Win key and the L key together only; if you press those two and the Shift key, it won't lock the keyboard
@TylerH I'm not trying to rag on you. I'm trying to explain what got communicated to me, and that I had to spend time experimenting with different key combinations to try to figure out what you actually meant.
but L is only Shift + L
So if someone told you to type Ctrl + *, you'd hold the Ctrl and 8/* keys, but not the Shift key?
@Makyen Sure, I don't feel ragged; I am just explaining how you're mistaken
@RyanM correct
21:29
I can't believe this is relevant... unix.meta.stackexchange.com/q/5809/41104
See the official Windows keyboard shortcut help article: support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/…
it uses capital letters to indicate shortcuts that don't involve using the Shift key
BTW, somehow emacs representation is years ahead
Just because other people made the mistake doesn't mean it's not a mistake
I think it's different for letters, likely in part because that's the only symbol on the key.
@RyanM now you're telling me that L and l are the same?
come on...
you can't have your cake and eat it, too!
21:31
@TylerH While I agree that communication takes more than one person and that miscommunication is nearly always a shared responsibility, my hope is that you accept that how you communicated that could be done differently, such that there's less chance of miscommunication.
To be fair, the letter on the keyboard is the uppercase one, not the lowercase.
I don't remember any keyboard that had both.
i bet you could get keycaps made that way
@Makyen I'm always happy to clarify something I said, but I respectfully don't expect I'll change the way I communicate keyboard shortcuts based on whether a shift is pressed, since official guidance agrees with me and in my entire life have never seen used to imply shift is required in technical articles or chat across the internet.
21:33
@KevinB If you start ordering custom key caps to win an argument, you've lost the argument. =D
I think if you want to be unambiguous, you should use the unshifted character always, and include Shift explicitly when needed. That is, never use the shifted character in keyboard shortcut documentation.
@TylerH I've definitely seen it used to indicate the need for Shift. Although, I'm not going to spend the time to pull up an example.
@RyanM note that Win + Shift + L (or Win + Shift + l, however you want to read it) will not lock your Windows computer
I still believe that emacs representation is superior in all aspects.
@Braiam Yeah but it's emacs so we relegate that to the same corner as php :-)
21:34
(except for emacs/vi/vim-related docs because they're special and there's standard notation for those)
@RyanM yes, this is how I have always seen it: if the Shift key is required/used for a keyboard shortcut, it is explicitly listed in the key combination.
Right, but that means you'd give ; as the key to strike, not :, as the latter introduces ambiguity. Makyen and I would use the Shift key; you would not.
@RyanM it's irrelevant, because it's the same key
(sorry for the ninja edit)
@BaummitAugen Unless the argument is about mechanical keyboards, then...well, that's a rabbit hole :D
Lets remember that certain keyboards don't even list all the possible symbols (mine doesn't have any level 3 character)
(and somehow manages to make most of them also ambiguous listing them side by side)
21:38
@TylerH Again, I understand that you feel it is. It, however, is clear from this discussion that other people don't think so and that clearer communication will result from using the non-shifted character for the key, at least when two distinct characters are commonly labeled on the key.
(also, my keyboard has, IIRC, two keys too few to type in German and I am mildly nonplussed about this fact) (it's programmable, so I could hack around that, but also that's annoying)
> Ctrl + Shift with an arrow key: Select a block of text
That is hilarious ^
@RyanM For normal text, setting a US keyboard to German layout mostly works fine, despite stuff being arranged a bit differently around the return key.
@Makyen I'll leave it as an exceedingly simple exercise to the reader why they don't get the expected output when they press the wrong keys for a keyboard shortcut, due to thinking about the symbols instead.
Now, I really gotta run, as I'm late for a run
No clue how to type <, > or | on a US keyboard with German layout though.
21:41
If you do that with the horizontal arrow keys it would select a word (or whatever the program recognizes as one), if you use vertical ones it selects a paragraph.
@BaummitAugen Have you tried altgr? That thing has everything.
@BaummitAugen I think you'd also be missing ' and #
@Braiam I have, but on the German layout, the character I mentioned are on a key left of the Y (Z on US) that simply does not exist.
@RyanM For me the US \ | key works for those.
Ohh, no international english but US english. In mine, the symbols that correspond to that key is snuggled between enter and backspace.
@BaummitAugen :mindblown: You're absolutely right, I totally didn't notice that that key isn't present on the German layout, and didn't make the connection that it's just moved. Thanks, that's actually extremely helpful.
Haha yw =D
21:45
@TylerH sigh Unfortunately, as was demonstrated here, it's not "an exceedingly simple exercise to the reader", because there are situations where even the correct the key combination won't produce the effect which is intended. It's even worse when you're explicitly asking something like "what happens when you do ...", where the person is trying to do exactly what you're said and report back to you, rather than obtain some specific result.
^ The whole question is an image including details not just code...
2
Is this a good question?
Thank you, I was thinking the same, it is well written. :)
22:01
@KevinB Are you out of close votes? :)
i don't think i've cast one today
oh, i casted one
So, what does it mean by ":"?
that's what happens when i press win + :
also... on my keyboard, the symbols have started wearing away
i have no c, v, n, m, l, <, >, e, d, s, or a
@KevinB So, how do you write "A"?
the key is still there
22:47
@KevinM.Mansour This one might be ok
Yeah, all the error text is also available as text. Could be better, of course.
23:20
@KevinM.Mansour Noticed after I voted on it, but quite a few of these are at least a few days old (some notably older), have no activity, and are almost certain to be deleted by roomba (and some could be deleted faster with what would be a well-merited downvote). Is it useful to be spending close votes on these?
They're all closed now (except for the one Dharman pointed out is probably fine), so this is more something to consider for the future
23:44
@RyanM I saw your comment about that licensing question. Not sure if you know about OpenSource.SE or not. Sometimes better for those questions

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