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sta
4:36 AM
wake up, wake up, wake up all
 
 
2 hours later…
 
7:37 AM
This is spam, isn't it?
 
8:35 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
sta
9:54 AM
@vestland but you didn't vote?
 
@sta Have now.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:08 AM
Hi guys, thought I would aks here... Can I single handedly retag to + ? There are only 48 questions so we may not need a burnination request
 
@Lino the usual procedure is to ask on meta rather than plunge ahead on your own
 
Already under discussion on Meta.SO.
 
@Lino I would say that the operation should be to the other side.
 
@tripleee done, let meta decide what's best
 
11:54 AM
@Tomerikoo Looks like the poster just want more downvotes. Why not oblige?
 
@AdrianMole haha, maybe going for the peer pressure badge? (although they just need to delete to get it.....)
 
12:06 PM
Morning
 
Looks like some people have nothing better to do than create voting rings
 
Those rings should be destroyed in Mordor
 
But mod flags also do their job (maybe we need "mordor flags" too?).
 
@JeanneDark What's that, my precious?
 
12:21 PM
;)
 
12:43 PM
Can I reject suggest edit because he added incorrect edit summary? For example this. Oleg Valter & double-beep because the user have added Incorrect edit summary. Is that correct action to reject as "The edit does not improve the quality of the post. Changes to the content are unnecessary or make the post more confusing." but he have fixed the tags and maybe the user have confused between another edit and added Incorrect edit summary.
but I see reject is not correct action.
 
Is this question on topic?
@KevinM.Mansour : "Use this tag for questions about the YAML data serialization format only, not for questions about programs (or examples) that happen to have their configuration in a YAML format."
 
@JeanneDark Meh. It's close enough I'd leave it. Looks like a programming tool question
 
Thank you
 
@KevinM.Mansour I would say that "Reject" was the correct action but that the reason was incorrect ... should have been "Irrelevant tags" IMHO.
 
12:50 PM
@JeanneDark I don't know about YAML but the argument for reject was Incorrect edit summary not Incorrect Tags.
 
Minor details.
The edit summary is wrong, but so also is the addition of the YAML tag.
 
It's like closing a typo question as needs debugging details
 
Ultimately, the "No improvement" reason wasn't entirely wrong, and the edit was (properly) rejected.
 
A wrong tag also makes the post more confusing and wastes the time of the respective tag watchers
 
Well, the editor put the wrong edit summary, having the wrong reject reasons makes it even.
 
12:53 PM
hehe
 
@AdrianMole So, Is it correct to reject edit because Incorrect edit summary?
@AdrianMole Minor details of edit summary?
 
@KevinM.Mansour You seem to miss the point. The edit was bad.
 
@KevinM.Mansour You only need to read the edit summary if it doesn't make sense the edit. If the edit is good by itself it should be accepted.
 
So that means the reject was correct?
 
@KevinM.Mansour In and of itself, no. If the edit is a good one, then the summary doesn't really matter. Have a look through this classic list of summaries.
 
12:55 PM
@KevinM.Mansour No. The edit should be reviewed by content, not summary. Why do you assume the reject reason was the incorrect summary?
 
@Tomerikoo I discussed with them in another room but I don't know whatever this is the correct chose.
 
"Kindly send me complete code. I shall be thankful to you."
^ from an answer, obviously
 
@KevinM.Mansour If that's the actual reason they rejected the edit, then for the general case it's wrong (in my opinion). In this case, as discussed it might have been ok to be rejected (for other reasons)
 
@Tomerikoo OK. thank you. this was my point. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour People invent all kinds of rubegoldber explanations to their actions. Don't bother with it.
Focus on the content, and you will be fine
 
12:59 PM
"Corracted spulling" is one of my favourite summaries.
 
@Braiam OK. Thank you. :)
 
... or "Edited post."
 
How about "edit summary"? Do people write that? ;)
 
The only bad summaries to really watch out for are those which are (clearly) rude or abusive. Such should be mod-flagged, IMHO (custom flag on the post itself - can't do it from the edit review queue).
@JeanneDark Haven't seen that one. Maybe I'll start using it.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Just to clarify what I meant before: if a good edit is rejected because of a wrong summary - then that's wrong
 
1:03 PM
@Tomerikoo Yes, I understood. Thank you. :)
Is this a good answer?
 
@KevinM.Mansour excuse me, but you publicly misrepresent my reasoning for rejecting the edit. I explicitly stated that the edit fails to address other obvious issues with the post (like noise, for example) and that I am not even sure the tag is an improvement. Overall - too minor.
 
@KevinM.Mansour I don't think it's good but it might be enough to consider it an answer
 
@OlegValter Thank you. Yes, Scratte described that. I thought you have rejected it because the edit summary. And Overrall I wanted to know whatever rejecting an edit because edit summary is correct action or not.
@Dharman OK. Thank you. :)
 
@OlegValter See my message above. The tag seems wrong.
 
1:50 PM
@KevinM.Mansour That post is deleted for 10 days... Did you mean a different action/question?
 
@Tomerikoo Audit in First Posts Queue. :)
 
Not sure I understand. You just posted a request to close a question which is deleted for 10 days...
 
Do you want it removed as an audit? Not sure we can do that, in this room.
... looks like a reasonable audit, though.
 
They probably got it as an audit in FP and didn't check before posting here, thinking it was a still open question
 
1:54 PM
@Tomerikoo Yes, because I saw it as normal question.
@JeanneDark Yes, that is right.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Had you just flagged it for Close, you would have then (quickly) seen it was an audit. You would even have been congratulated.
 
@AdrianMole Choosing "Looks ok" (or "No action needed") also works ;)
 
The congratulations after a passed audit are what keeps me motivated to review close votes
 
Yeah. Much nicer than "Stop! Look! Listen..."
 
@AdrianMole First I posted as request for close then I have flagged then I surprised it was an audit.
@JeanneDark Yes, it will work on suspending you. :)
 
1:58 PM
So maybe just wait a bit before posting requests in here. Saves everyone time and trouble...
 
@AdrianMole OK. :)
 
Or, I assume those actions were in quick succession so once figuring out it was an audit you probably still have time to delete the request :)
 
@Tomerikoo The request have been moved to another room.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Because the script ran. But if you figured out earlier that it had only been an audit, you might have had time to delete your request in here yourself.
 
@JeanneDark Yes, I have found option in the script which it would be better. Flag then send request.
 
2:08 PM
@JeanneDark We get "Summary: Corrected spealling" and other amusing ones. But this one is at least very honest in that "aruguments" is indeed a misspelled word ;)
 
@Scratte That looks like how I imagine suggested edit audits to look like
Now I see that it was an audit...
 
Audits in Suggested Edits are very obvious. They really make the post a lot worse.
 
But aren't they automatically generated, and not from real suggested edits?
 
Yes, I'm pretty sure they're generated on the fly. They always seem to be "proposed 1 minute ago". And the review always takes a while to load. You can tell just by that, that an audit is coming.
But my network is a bit tricky, so I don't always notice the lag. I do notice the edit though, and I've sometimes thought to myself "Wait.. something thought that was a good edit?!?.." Only to realize that wasn't entirely the case :)
 
Yep. Suggested Edit audits are created as needed, using a somewhat mysterious Markov-Model algorithm with a list of words from (presumably) other rejected edits.
 
I think the summaries are also taken from other edits. They seem to be lying a lot. Like "Fixed indentation" on a post with no code :D
 
... or maybe a Markup-Modal ?
 
Producing suggested edit audits is hard. Posting spam is more effective as actual Q/As so the system can't rely on audits rejected as spam, and for other reject reasons many are really subjective. Should a rejected indentation fix be an audit? Unlike actual posts which can be voted upon, there aren't very good heuristics either
 
The thing about audits on Suggested Edits is that are one time only. You cannot refresh on them. Once you refresh you can't do the review. And you can't share them for that reason also, even if you don't complete the review. Which has been a bit annoying to me when I needed to test a script and was looking for audits.
 
The actual system with audits that show super obvious garbage edits is fine. If one fails those, they really shouldn't be reviewing
But I would advocate for mods being able to choose audits. That would make a real difference and improvement
 
2:21 PM
@blackgreen I suppose not. Some of these things are just subjective. What is too minor?
 
I've said it before but, anyone who fails a Suggested Edits audit should be aed in timply goring swerps.
 
Technically, in the suggested edits, if you always reject, you can't fail.
 
@blackgreen You only fail the site..?!?.. I'd call that a major fail.
 
...and you can earn an extended review vacation.
 
2:22 PM
yeah well sure
I mean, you can't fail any audit
 
@blackgreen True, but I'm sure at some point a moderator will notice.
 
true (hopefully)
 
@JeanneDark That suggestion by Shog9 is good. I hope they implement that.
@JeanneDark I noticed this when I was directed to the discussion about the review. The kerfuffle started out with me getting the review and complaining about the summary. But I didn't take any action on the review itself. I didn't notice the excerpt, like you did. It's so simple having seen this. I wish I had thought of actually being a little more level-headed when I came across the review.
 
2:42 PM
Skipping review tasks is fine
 
2:54 PM
@JeanneDark Indeed. I have skipped several thousands of review items
So much so that I wish a count were kept so I could see a tally out of curiosity
@blackgreen You would get suspended from review, though.
 
@TylerH There is almost certainly a record somewhere. The site never forgets anything.
 
That's easy, no? There's 50 tasks on each page in the history. Count the pages * 50 and subtract your actual reviews. When you count the pages, just remember to leave the tick "Show skipped reviews" on
 
Removing the star on that since it is horrible advice and someone might take it seriously after seeing it on the starboard out of context
 
@AdrianMole I don't think they keep track of skips permanently, even indirectly; they don't store all traffic indefinitely
 
2:57 PM
Skips are shown by rene's review review script.
 
@Scratte I don't see a 'show skipped reviews' checkbox anywhere
 
@TylerH I was not providing "advice"
 
@blackgreen I know, but future readers might not :-)
 
I also skipped a lot. So much that I often got more audits than usual. Now I skip reviewing ;)
 
3:00 PM
@Scratte Is that specific to Late Answers? I'm not seeing it in CV Queue history
oh maybe I need to click over to "my" reviews, it would seem like a bit of a privacy hole if I could see others' skipped reviews
I never look at this view
 
Mortals only see our own reviews.
 
In the CV queue you can see all reviews
not sure why any queue would be different, really...
 
@TylerH I think it's a reputation thing. At some point you get to see everyone's reviews in all the queues..
 
ah
Yeah eventually you will get to see this i.stack.imgur.com/j0iBA.png
 
I see.. did the "'show skipped reviews" checkbox appear in "My reviews"?
 
3:03 PM
yes
I have skipped 7592 CV review items in my time here
for a total of 43,032 review items seen
 
I think I can top that in the Late Answers queue.. and I ever only did 1000 :D
 
Hmm. In my recent "Late Answers" (from Scratte's link), the first page shows I have skipped 4 times more than I have reviewed.
 
@AdrianMole turns out you were right :-)
 
I'm only ever wrong when I'm not right.
 
I have done zero late answer reviews apparently
oh wait no that's my daily count
ugh layout changes
 
3:04 PM
Skip all layout changes?
 
yes pls
 
In Late Answers I have 178 full pages and 25 on the last page. And I've only reviewed 1001 review tasks. So that makes the total tasks: 8925, where I skipped 7924.. :D
 
I would think that the number of skips is very useful information for mods, when considering (the length of) a review suspension. Robo-reviewers doubtless don't skip many, whereas lots of skips would likely suggest a more 'conscientious' reviewer, and may attenuate the length of any ban.
 
I got a satisfaction survey. I'm a bit baffled by how this question is presented. It has a sliding scale to answer and it goes 0 to 100.
 
I can see that I'm on that same overall percentage in Suggested edits. I have 80 pages and only done roughly 500 actual tasks.
 
3:13 PM
@VLAZ What's baffling? That it's such a high resolution?
 
@VLAZ They like mice. Mice are nice.. ;P
 
@AdrianMole What if I want to choose 74.355 as an answer?
 
Is 74.355% satisfaction really so different from 74%?
 
Is 74 that different from 75?
 
@VLAZ First, you make a feature-request.. than you leave your tab open while you hope it will be implemented.
 
3:15 PM
More seriously, it doesn't seem the thing to give up to 100 rating to. The five point breakdown should be quite enough.
 
Does Smokey have a :facepalm: response?
 
"It puts the lotion on its face else it gets banned again"
 
@AdrianMole Or I'm just a very indecisive person. I don't think it makes me a better reviewer. It just means I don't like to be wrong.
LOL!.. Silence of the spams? :D
 
@Scratte But I think it's the robo-reviewers that get the long (permanent) bans.
 
@AdrianMole Yes, well.. obviously they have no problems with being wrong. To the extent that they keep it up.
 
3:19 PM
Better to catch them quickly: 5 poor reviews in a short spell and no skips would be a good signal.
 
3:31 PM
But you'd have to be able to tell if there were 5 poor reviews in a short spell
 
@Scratte why use the queue if you are going to skip 88.8% of the items?
Seems like it is not particularly worth your time
Or did you do it only for the gold badge, since you stopped at 1,001?
 
@TylerH Not a lot on Stack is.. you have a good point there ;)
@TylerH I stopped at the gold badge because it's nice and shiny. Then I moved over to First Posts..
 
Shouldn't this be a comment? Or not a good answer.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Does it not work?
An Answer shouldn't be a comment just because it 1. Doesn't work or 2. Isn't a good solution or 3. It's short.
 
@Scratte I didn't try whatever it works. It looks like won't be helpful for future users.
@Scratte Yes, I know.
 
3:44 PM
It should be a comment if it isn't an answer at all, as in 1. Any update on this? 2. Can you upload the entire code? 3. I tried solution in other Answer, but it didn't work.
 
@KevinM.Mansour it is an answer but it is an exact copy of the accepted answer so IMO is mod-flaggable
well actually it's at 0 score
so a mod would just decline and say downvote/delete vote instead
 
Kevin doesn't have 20k? He can't vote to delete.
 
@Braiam Yes, I can't.
 
Mods will still say that, in my experience
anyway, speaking of that thread...
 
Ha! So.. it's actually a good solution, but it was stolen from another Answer.
Which completely settles the "Shouldn't this be a comment? Or not a good answer." with a NO.
 
3:49 PM
@Scratte Why you conflict stuff? I didn't say it doesn't work (And If it doesn't I would downvoted or putted a comment not asking here). This answer is one line of text without even showing an example of code, this was my point.
 
In my anecdotal experience, mods tend to prefer you only mod flag duplicate answers if they're not reasonably actionable by the community. If they are, they prefer the community handle it (even if the community means "people with the necessary rep, even if that excludes the flagger). Reasonably actionable there would mean typically having a score of ~2 or less.
 
@KevinM.Mansour A one-liner doesn't matter.. one line can be a perfectly fine Answer.
 
@TylerH A question to which I posted an answer was closed as "not about programming within the scope defined in the help center". That's clearly wrong. However me being an answerer means I can't post a reopen-pls here
Right?
 
@Scratte Really? Show me one line of text answer that is helpful?
 
@blackgreen Yes, you're involved
 
3:50 PM
@KevinM.Mansour You asked for folks' input here, so I'm not sure why you're confused why Scratte responded to your question.
 
that answer would be "helpful", if there wasn't an already much more helpful answer that included it
 
@KevinM.Mansour The other Answer
 
@blackgreen Correct, as Jeanne just mentioned. You can see the full list of involved criteria at #15 here: socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-requests-youre-involved
In the future, when asking if it's allowed for you to request action on a post here, I would prefer you not include the link, unless expressly asked by someone
To avoid gaming the rule (even unintentionally)
 
So beside casting my reopen vote and waiting for the review to go through, there's nothing else I can do, correct?
@TylerH right, I understand. Please feel free to edit the link out of the chat post
 
3:53 PM
@blackgreen only diamond moderators can edit the messages of other users in chat
 
@Scratte And the other answer works but it is not helpful though. Or it is not very good answer. :)
 
no harm this time around anyway, just wanted to mention it for future reference :-)
 
no problem. I flagged my own chat message anyway.. (!)
 
@KevinM.Mansour That's just silly. It was clearly helpful to someone. Don't conflate quantity with quality.
 
@KevinM.Mansour the other answer is definitely helpful, because it solves the problem. It's also got a score of 6 and an accepted answer checkmark, so it's apparently helped several users in the past already, including OP
@blackgreen not sure if you can retract chat flags, but if so, I would recommend it. Chat flags are not for "hey please edit this" but rather "someone is doing something really bad"
 
3:55 PM
OK. Anyway.
 
the question, however, is off-topic :-)
 
4:05 PM
@TylerH @Dharman binned; Kevin requested the same post above
@rene just add !important; to the end of the comment so mods can't delete it...
 
Don't you think it would be easier to nominate for moderator? ;)
 
Easier to numerate for murderer?
 
You developed your own auto-correct? Or you're using someone else's? :P
 
@TylerH why though? even after your edit?
 
@blackgreen I'm talking about the question that Kevin shared an answer link to, not the question you asked about
 
4:16 PM
oh ok, I got the message order wrong
 
5:11 PM
@blackgreen You could also convert your answer to a CW, and then you're allowed to post a reopen-pls in here.
 
5:53 PM
@cigien @bad_coder @IanCampbell The bullet list of criteria on FAQ #11 is inclusive, not exhaustive. That means any one of the conditions will satisfy the requirements; a cv-pls request does not need to meet all requirements... otherwise, for example, we would have to require that all cv-pls requests include an example of another Q (Q1) using the requested Q (Q2) as evidence for Q1 being on-topic, which would be prohibitive.
@cigien @bad_coder @IanCampbell You can think of an "inclusive list" as meaning simply "including, but not limited to, these reasons", or to put it the terms Ian used, "x OR y, for two examples", not "x AND y". Contrarily, an "AND" list would have to be "exhaustive" rather than "inclusive", because you can't explicitly require additional specific criteria if you don't... specify them.
 
@TylerH That's why bullet list bad :D
 
Or at least, add the explicit or's
 
I agree, the FAQ should be updated to clarify the current meaning (and, as always, if someone thinks it should be substantially different, do file a Suggested Room Topic on the matter
 
@TylerH Thanks for the clarification. Follow up: the last 3 bullets can be objectively verified, but the 1st not really, so wouldn't reading that list an or allow almost any question?. In fact, and I may be misremembering, but I thought we couldn't post cv-pls requests for old questions just because they're really bad.
Unless "low quality magnet" has some specific meaning I'm unaware of. What does that mean exactly anyway?
 
6:04 PM
It's funny how classful css bites certain sites when users visit them in old browsers :D
 
@cigien means using your good sense.
 
6:31 PM
@cigien typically "low quality" here would mean something qualifies for a "VLQ" flag or perhaps a mod flag (though if something qualifies for a mod flag, just mod flag it instead of posting a cv-pls)... but, yeah, otherwise use your best judgment on whether something is bad. If people disagree with you that it is bad, they should say so.
People can vote to close for theoretically infinite reasons, but if they do so for outlandish reasons often enough, someone will notice and ideally reign them in; the same principle applies here: we expect you to request action on posts the larger community (be that SOCVR here or Meta when asking on Meta) would also consider 'so bad that it needs a cv-pls even though there hasn't been any recent activity'
 
@cigien I know you're wanting concrete criteria. However, that's not really going to happen, because it's just not possible to write a relatively limited description which is going to cover all corner cases. The quality of questions and "enough users in a tag" are criteria which exist on a spectrum, which don't have clear-cut demarcation points as to when they are actually to the point of qualifying. A lot of the evaluation of quality, in particular, is going to be subjective.
 
^ it's open-ended because it's subjective (and because it's not exhaustive; we can't think of all possible reasons and don't want to preemptively preclude a reason that might otherwise be OK)
 
@TylerH Ok, that makes sense. As usual, I was imagining (hoping) there would be some objective measure (similar to the "recent activity" rule), but I guess that doesn't really work. Self monitoring seems reasonable for these cases. Thanks for the clarification cc @Makyen
 
do user pages not show when they are suspended anymore?
I'm looking at a user's page whose rep just went to 1 moments ago but their still have positively-scored content (e.g. they were well above a few downvotes away from 1 rep), but their profile doesn't show anything about being suspended.
(and I have all userscripts turned off to confirm its not them)
 
i haven't seen such an account recently
 
6:46 PM
@TylerH As far as I'm aware, user pages have a banner across the top when the user is suspended. You might want to check the user's reputation page to see if the change in reputation is explained there.
 
@Makyen it's not, but I think it might be a red-flagged post causing a -100 penalty rather than a suspension
 
@TylerH I'm looking at a long suspension profile that fits the description, 1 rep but all the content is shown and scored. (Does show end of suspension date.)
 
Yeah, I also forget that a -100 rep doesn't necessarily come with an automatic day in the penalty box
 
7:06 PM
@cigien fwiw, the classic "spirit vs letter of the law" has been a classic SE staple since the site's inception. There's no end in sight for the dilemma and the only workable solution everyone's found is taking it easy. This borrows heavily, and explicitly, from Christian tradition. And is a object of lifelong meditation for a significant segment of the site's users.
 
What did I accidently change here? stackoverflow.com/posts/68338582/revisions
 
Nothing?
 
Why is the heading highlighted?
 
Good, a second case
seems like a new bug
it highlighted all of the headers for all revisions, even though it only changed in the most recent revision
 
@Dharman On the markdown isn't
 
8:17 PM
It looks like my bot does quite a lot of automatic edits: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/…
 
@Dharman The only difference I see is that the headings are given different id attributes.
While it shouldn't be the cause, the Markdown renderers and HTML filtering were changed recently to add <h4>, <h5>, and <h6> elements. I'm not sure when, exactly, the change was made.
I checked another post which I edited yesterday and definitely didn't make substantial changes. The edits I checked showed that I made dramatic changes in both the "Inline" and "Side-by-side" views, but not the "Side-by-side Markdown" view. Basically, it looks like the code doing the difference highlighting is messed-up.
 
huh, nice detailed analysis. So it's a bug
 
Did you just search for "What is the best programming language"?
 
yeah
don't you ever do that?
 
8:27 PM
@Dharman Yep, bug. Maybe they were trying to fix the bug that the syntax highlighting was removing the difference highlighting.
 
I don't because I already know the answer.
 
PHP?
 
"q - a free form text parameter, will match all question properties based on an undocumented algorithm." is not really what I'd normally expect to see in API documentation. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 PM
 
11:23 PM
^ Looks like Off-Topic question for me. The OP asked why a Company rejected their app which is completely not related to programming.
 
11:43 PM
Is is needed to delete this question?
 
@KevinM.Mansour No, it will Roomba in 10 days.
 
@cigien But there is answer, Isn't the answer will prevent deletion Or since it have -1?
 
@KevinM.Mansour I'm not actually familiar enough with the Roomba rules to quote them off the top of my head. I'm using the Roomba forecaster, and trusting that it's right :)
 
@cigien OK. Thank you :)
 

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