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12:26 AM
@bad_coder you do have a point here
 
 
3 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
5:39 AM
hi
 
@LakpriyaSenevirathna: hello
 
@TylerH This is particularly frustrating for the display property, where there's significant indirect jQuery manipulation of that property within the style attribute, none of which takes into account that !important is now needed.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:57 AM
If mods would only allow me to post one extra unhelpful comment, I would be so much more happy ...
 
 
1 hour later…
 
@AndyK cv-pls tags should be used for close votes (Questions only). While you may feel it's more of a comment, in this case, the user attempted to answer the question with a possible solution, so this is considered an answer for SO standards.
 
@AndyK In addition, requests are not permitted in SOCVR when you're "involved" in the post.
 
Was just about to say, rule #15
Was trying to find it :P
 
Are RO's charging for rules breaches now?
 
8:27 AM
@VLAZ I'm not sure what you're asking.
 
Meh, attempted at a joke but foiled by editing the message. It initially said "rule $15"
 
@VLAZ Ahhh... yeah, that would have made it understandable. :;
 
8:42 AM
@VLAZ No, but you still have to pay for the breeches
 
This means it's free for me, as I don't wear pants.
 
Nobody does anymore, not for the past 15 months or so. That's why we've had to go up on our prices.
 
Unfortunately, the no-pants era is coming to an end. At least for some. I have to go to the office on Monday and probably wear jeans or something, as we have an interviewee.
 
Will be awkward when the interviewee doesn't wear pants
 
Just means I can take mine off, as well.
 
sta
9:47 AM
My cv-pls userscript was not working, after updated its working fine now :)
 
@sta Certainly better than the opposite, eh?
 
sta
10:18 AM
@CodyGray I dont know, I didn't send yet any cv request :D
 
@rene When did we stop allowing that?
10 messages moved to Private Trash (requesting "peace and quiet" when someone respectfully questions something you've posted in here is not acceptable)
4
 
11:05 AM
If a user posts an "answer" that is nothing but a request for personal contact via Email, should that be flagged as "spam" or just NAA?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yes.
Either will do. I'd go with spam if that all it contains. But that might get disputed, so, as usual, if you're concerned about a mythical concept of "flag weight", then use NAA.
 
I'd use NAA.
Not that urgent of a thing to handle, and the queue might deal with it.
Also, it doesn't promote anything.
 
Seems to promote the user who posts it?
 
@CodyGray Are they "a product or service"?
 
How should I know?
 
11:19 AM
I mean, wouldn't decline a spam flag.
But NAA seems more apt IMO.
 
I like spam flags.
 
Then this could be just for you.
 
@AdrianMole It's the wrong color! Spam flags are supposed to be red.
 
Pfft.
 
Miss clicked should probably have been begging for sample code
 
11:33 AM
@DaImTo NAA, too
 
@desertnaut probably but someone who will remain nameless may comment on my fast clicking again 😁 figured i would mention it.
 
@DaImTo custom is likely an overkill here - it's a simple no-repro :) vtc'ed
 
@OlegValter no-repro is normally for typo's isnt it does it work for server outages as well? Yes i did consider it.
Im totally relearning how to CV questions being in this channel.
 
"While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers."
 
@DaImTo Such person could still comment on the fact that "begging for sample code" is not a close reason, if they were the type of person who wanted to comment on things.
 
11:40 AM
@CodyGray oh very good point i keep forgetting that its not a bad thing.
 
It all depends, really. Specifically, it depends on: Is the question clear? Is the question sufficiently narrowly scoped?
 
@CodyGray defiantly a lot of times if i have the code floating around i will pass it on.
 
@DaImTo well, it's literally not reproducible :) I read this reason as an OR: either no-repro or just a typo. I don't think there was any issue with your request - just a note that we could likely use the standard one here
 
@OlegValter im starting to think i use custom ones to much
 
Heh. I read that "redux" as "yet another duplicate". Apparently, it's an actual framework.
Aptly named: "yet another stupid JS framework".
 
Zoe
11:55 AM
@CodyGray They didn't need to call it stupid
It's implied, it's a JS framework :p
 
I thought about a change to the review system. When a reviewer chooses "No action needed" or "Looks ok", the reviewed post is automatically pushed into the LQP or close review queue.
 
@JeanneDark You want to make it fully recursive?
 
@CodyGray No, I just think that would be the correct reaction to the review. When those options are chosen, what is more likely - that an answer by Jon Skeet slipped into the late answers queue or that it's just a robo-reviewer? I somehow can't suppress the urge to check the timeline of older, very low quality posts and too often find reviewers chose "No action needed" even when it's obviously NAA, maybe not even in English.
 
@DaImTo heh, if OPs don't ping you too much because of the comment left by a custom reason, I guess it's no big deal :)
 
@JeanneDark Right, but still, what you're saying is, too many (most?) reviewers make the wrong decision, so we should have reviewers review the reviewers?
@OlegValter @DaImTo Yeah, there's nothing wrong with using a custom reason when you think it would add clarity and improve understanding of why you've voted to close a post.
Just make sure that the reason you're putting in that box is actually reason why the question is off-topic.
That's the biggest (only?) mistake I see with custom close reasons.
 
12:05 PM
@CodyGray Not review the reviewers. Just that "No action needed" likely means the post is unsalvageable.
 
@JeanneDark That's sorta ridiculous, though. If a post is unsalvageable, then it definitely needs some action.
So you're just saying that most reviewers make the wrong decision, and we shouldn't trust that.
 
Maybe it's because I already saw two "No action needed" reviews today that were clearly wrong. One is in the graveyard. The other one was an answer with a preface how it was not an answer but a question about the answer, yet the reviewer didn't mind.
 
Is there a 'policy' on reversing duplicates? (I.e. reopening a closed Q and closing the target as a dupe of that.) I've seen "big" users do it, once or twice but now I have come across one in review where a commentator has suggested just that (and offered the first reopen vote). Both Qs are C++ tagged, so I could do the business ... should I?
 
@JeanneDark Seems like at least the latter should be flagged for moderator attention.
We can educate the reviewer.
 
@CodyGray It's been deleted so I can't flag. Do you want the link?
 
12:13 PM
yes, please
 
@CodyGray It was likely this one
 
Ta; yes.
You don't want all of that work Lisa put into revamping the review suspension system to go to waste, do you?
 
No, I never would want to
 
@CodyGray You mods were given a whole new suspension UI?
 
@AdrianMole Yeah. And it uses the new editor, which is horribly broken. Look at this. Do you see anything perhaps wrong with that live preview of my Markdown?
 
12:18 PM
When I come across an NAA, I just flag it appropriately. I don't do more when checking the timeline (and also don't do that always). But when I do and I see a clearly wrong review, should I mod flag the post instead and explain the post is very low quality and the review was wrong?
@CodyGray No, looks perfect ;)
 
@JeanneDark Yes, that's what I would recommend. (I always check that when I handle posts flagged as VLQ and NAA and hand out suspensions when appropriate. But most mods don't bother. And I wouldn't expect non-mods to do this with any diligence, of course. But if you do notice it, it's worth bringing to a mod's attention.)
 
Thank you!
 
12:44 PM
@AdrianMole I'm not aware of any policy regarding this, but if you think the suggested target reversal is appropriate, then definitely go for it. Especially since you have a hammer, so it saves the hassle for several other users.
 
I did.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:24 PM
Advice sought from the peanut gallery. Someone asked a question. I posted an answer that I thought was correct at the time. Turned out I was wrong. OP upvoted based on me trying to help but then self-answered with the correct answer. I'm faced with the choice of leaving my answer alone; self-deleting my answer, or editing my answer to the correct answer, which would somewhat duplicate OP's self answer. What would you do?
 
Is your answer something that might help others with a similar situation?
 
Would keeping your answer benefit in any way to future readers?
 
Or, is your answer something that, despite being wrong and/or sub-optimal, would be instructive to others in a "don't do it this way" sense?
If not, I would just delete it. There's no point in duplicating the other answer into yours, unless you can offer some more detailed/thorough explanation that the OP can't.
 
I could probably edit my answer to provide a clue in how to recognize the situation that the OP figured out.
Thanks for that helpfully phrased question, Cody. Got me thinking what I could add.
 
Sure. Incidentally, I ate a flag the other day where someone was requesting deletion of their answer. (I don't recall now why they had to raise a flag. Maybe it was accepted?) Anyway, they basically said that their answer is a bad approach, and that there's a better solution already posted.
I don't recall whether I declined the flag or marked it as helpful, but I did not delete the answer. Instead, I gave them the advice to improve the answer to explain why the solution presented in the answer is sub-optimal/inferior to that in the other answer.
Because, the reality is, lots of people will think of the "bad" solution that was presented in their answer. That's going to be most people's "go-to", obvious approach. But yet, the flagger was right that it's a bad solution.
Deleting it might stop a few people from using it, but only the people who are copy-pasting their way to a program.
It would be far better if there was an answer there that presented the common/obvious/well-known approach, and then went on to explain why that was inferior to the other way.
This happened to be a tech that I was familiar with, so I was able to make this specific assessment on a technical basis. I know what is common, and what mistakes people commonly make using that tech.
But it's true in general. Just because an answer is wrong is not necessarily a reason to delete it. Downvoting is often sufficient, and can provide even more information to future viewers than it being missing.
 
2:38 PM
@CodyGray First mistake: They use that tech ;)
 
That is one of the most verbose answers I"ve seen from you in a while, Cody. Taking lessons from Makyen? ;)
 
You mean Makyen?
 
Yeah probably.
Done. OP answered the "what". I edited my answer with the "why". :)
 
Uh, I invented verbosity :-)
@JeanneDark The mistake being that they use the tech? Or that they got a moderator who uses (used, actually) the same tech?
 
The former ;) just joking, I hadn't seen the answer
 
 
1 hour later…
3:50 PM
I am considering creating a meta post to address this same issue, asking, what are the site moderators doing to address this?
 
At least one moderator (me!) doesn't know anything about it. The mention of it today is the first time I've ever seen it mentioned or flagged.
I'll have to look into it. Don't have time to deal with it at the moment, unfortunately, aside from playing whack-a-mole. Which was a success.
 
@CodyGray: then perhaps a meta post addressing this should be made, but I'm not as up to date in the activities in the C# tag as others, and these same others will be able to marshal the facts needed
 
Yeah, that may be best.
It's generally better not to make Meta posts calling out users, but I guess trolls are a different story
Only issue is that, if you want to present actual evidence that would help us to identify/catch the troll, it's probably better if that not be made public.
 
@CodyGray: their accounts are always deleted and changed, so there is no one stable user account that this will affect. I'm guessing that they use techniques to hide their internet location when creating multiple new accounts.
 
So that's why these things should generally be flagged. I don't know if other C# folks have been flagging it. I haven't seen any flags on it. It's possible I missed them. If you don't explicitly call our attention to a larger pattern, we'll tend to just mop up the specific spill that you flagged and move along.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yes, almost certainly. That's why we'd need to find some commonality that would allow us to connect them, and then we could look into setting up a script or something to alert us when such an account was created so we could pre-emptively destroy it.
The same kind of stuff that Shog used to be able to implement for us as system-level blocks.
We're flying pretty neutered these days, of course.
 
3:57 PM
@CodyGray here and here is another one that I flagged. But sorry, since I know that this is not the proper site for these discussions.
@CodyGray: I understand. I remember from years past, a script that addressed such a user, called a "lunch meat detector" if I remember correctly.
 
I think I remember other users mentioning a troll in cv- and del-pls requests. Not sure it's the same.
 
@JeanneDark: it likely is. He/she have been at it for months, all in an attempt to get a rise out of the regular users of the tag, and successfully too.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yeah, that's Charcoal, which is the community-led project. That's still active, of course. We could also use that to catch them, if we can find certain patterns. I'm sure Makyen will see this message and look into it.
 
@CodyGray: great, thanks. Again, sorry for calling you out in chat
 
@JeanneDark Sometimes, I see people mention "troll" in cv- and del-please requests, but I never know if there's actual evidence for it, or if it's just people whining about seeing the same bad questions over and over. I've asked people a couple of times to raise mod flags if they have any actual evidence.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yeah, no worries. That first message (what are the mods doing about it?) did seem a little... aggressive. But it's totally understandable that you'd be frustrated about seeing that kind of crap. I certainly would be!
 
4:01 PM
At least I didn't directly ping anyone until they pinged me :D
But thanks for being here
 
:-)
I'll try to dig into it more later when I have a chance.
It's long past a normal human's bedtime in my time zone.
 
And good night to you
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels This case has been brought up on MSE. The troll is known to Charcoal as well. I'm not aware of what, if any, detections there currently are in place to catch those posts, but IIRC, there's not been a good way to catch them without also catching a lot of false positives, given the nature of the posts.
 
Sigh, of course it's on MSE, despite being a SO-specific issue...
 
Yeah, but I think the OP wanted to know what can be done about it at a network, rather than a site, level.
 
4:09 PM
I don't know much about it, but here's something from the graveyard.
 
@JeanneDark for site moderator
@cigien: for same
 
@cigien Nothing. There are no network-level tools for this, or any other kind abuse. Zip, zilch, nada, bupkis. Next: check with a friendly neighborhood moderator who can at least try, if they're made aware.
Hmm, see... even that search... I didn't connect any of those dots.
You really have to trust us like we're a bunch of dummies :-)
 
@CodyGray You're not counting Smokey as a network level tool?
 
anything which can be formalized into Python code (or exposed to Python over an API) can be deployed as part of Smoke Detector, but I don't think we are quite there yet
 
@cigien It's not really part of the system, so no.
It's a completely separate system.
@tripleee Can we detect a C# troll with Python code? Stay tuned to find out!
 
4:16 PM
Ah, I see. Yeah, if you don't count SD, then there's not much more that can be done other than alerting site mods.
 
@cigien Especially since, alerting site mods is a lot like alerting the Charcoal folks these days.
 
@cigien previous time this happened (few weeks ago) I contacted Charcoal folks and they drafted Smoke Detector heuristics based on what details I had back then. I think @HovercraftFullOfEels or @CodyGray can contact them again and suggest enhancing their heuristics based on additional data. Note no need to drop this data to Charcoal chat, they will invite you into some private room for further study
 
I've heard you can do everything with Python ;)
 
Except build Python
 
 
1 hour later…
5:40 PM
Isn't this question should be migrated to Ask Ubuntu?
^ It is closed as Off-Topic but I think it might be On-Topic on Ask Ubuntu.
 
You might ask over on ubuntu if they would like to have that question
 
@JeanneDark On Meta? and is it Correct to ask for specific questions should be migrated or not on Meta?
 
You could start with their chat room
 
OK. thank you. :)
 
6:08 PM
Isn't that Off-Topic?
 
@KevinM.Mansour I would say so (VTC'd)
 
^ +1
 
@desertnaut Thank you. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
Image of homework question for those with 90-degree swivels on their heads.
 
@AdrianMole it is apparent that some people are trying to prepare the ground for our robot overlords
 
@KevinM.Mansour Nah, they already have several of those.
 
@Braiam OK. thank you. :)
 
8:29 PM
Any idea why a moderator deleted the exact same answer as this? I mod-flagged the repost but I'm curious...
... OK, I think I understand. OP edited the answer but couldn't undelete it, so they posted an edited version. Flag retracted!
... timelines can be useful! :-)
 
@desertnaut I would strongly suggest not closing this one. Cosine similarity is a common programming function so the Q is about understanding a programming function.
 
@bad_coder I don't doubt about the function, but I am afraid this does not make the subject question a programming one
I mean, I can easily imagine me answering it with mathematical/geometrical arguments, but not programming ones
 
8:52 PM
@desertnaut mmm, I just don't know. This one was answered with programming arguments (or so it seems). I'm biased, it's a type of math I take interest in.
 
@bad_coder I was talking about the specific question, not a general tutorial/demo one like the one you have linked to - which indeed can be answered with programming arguments and notions. And yes, I take interest to such math as well (they are an integral part of ML), but this does not change the fact (or my opinion, if you like) that the cv-pls request was about a non-programming question.
 
@bad_coder Isn't that too broad anyways?
 
@Braiam yes, it would seem so - I would have VTC'd if I was not out of CVs
@bad_coder anyway, I guess some grey zones (and disagreements) are always expected
 
@desertnaut I haven't had enough time to look at questions like these on SO to clearly make up my mind about what's on-topic and what on...I should be revisiting some of these tags in the near future.
 
@bad_coder glad to assist, if you like
 
9:02 PM
@desertnaut ok. Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it. But I'm afraid some of the stuff I'll be looking into is very localized....
@desertnaut I mean, I called up an expert with years of experience and he said:"don't know, don't know, will have to call someone, will have to think about it, etc..."
 
@bad_coder what do you mean by "localized"?
 
@desertnaut domain specific to the Portuguese language.
 
@Braiam which as it happens, I have edited, and is now eligible for cv-pls requests ;)
@bad_coder sorry, I thought we were talking about SO questions...
 
@desertnaut I'm not going to touch that with a 9 feet pole in a hazmat suit.
 
@Braiam (uuhhh, "Can you give me an example" type question although this one places no requirement on the example, so it is broad...)
 
9:07 PM
@bad_coder No, the problem is that there's not restriction on the examples.
@desertnaut BTW, there was an answer 2 months ago, so either way it was eligible.
 
@Braiam yes, that's what I meant to say.
 
@Braiam :-0
 
@desertnaut I do have one theoretical question for you (I've been meaning to ask but have also been hesitant.)
 
Is this a spam suggested edit? I rejected it, but I'm not trusting myself now..
 
@desertnaut It's this: NLP is a field in Data Science. If I want to make a formal argument that in some cases you can't abstract from the domain, but must instead dive into it an specialize....What source or law should I evoke to support this?
 
9:15 PM
@Scratte It redirects to a porn site, so... yeah.
 
@Scratte I guess that's a yes.. from a grass covered and long necked cute little thing with big eyes :)
@BaummitAugen Ohh.. I didn't click on the link. I had a bad feeling about it.
 
Probably someone testing automatic filters or sth.
 
Well, if it had worked that would have given them a lot of views.
..and me in the penalty box for a few days ;)
 
@desertnaut Example, Porter or Snowball stemmers. If I wanted to say the algorithms are too general and need to be specialized building from domain-expert knowledge.
 
@bad_coder if I understand correctly, and you are talking about the "generalist [NLP] Data Scientist" vs a "domain expert [NLP] Data Scientist", I think the consensus is domain expertise always pays off
 
9:21 PM
@Scratte From Wikipedia, it appears that site already gets more traffic than all of SO. =D
But anyway, just another spam edit, rejected, end of story.
 
@desertnaut yes exactly! The formal argument for it, where can I find it?
 
@BaummitAugen I'm not surprised. Why search coding issues when you can.. or something. Thank you :)
 
@bad_coder don't have anything from the top of my head; I would suggest start googling - something like "data science domain expertise" and see; if I find something concrete, I will ping you
but the consensus is indeed as I have described, and it is not seriously challenged by anyone as far as I know
 
@desertnaut ok, please do. You might come across something by chance or you might remember a reference source.
@desertnaut I'm used to being unreasonably nitpicked...Even the consensus gets challenged when I defend something.
 
@bad_coder you will not have difficulties in finding quotes for the general (or some other specific) case - see for example the intro here (I was looking at it for a completely different reason). Finding quotes for NLP might be a little harder though, but still possible.
 
9:31 PM
@desertnaut I have to go now. Thanks for the reference, I'll dig into it.
 
@bad_coder anytime - but don't dig into it, the necessary info is in the 3-line intro :)
 
:) ok
 

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