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12:19 AM
Hello.
Wrong Room
 
12:45 AM
Do I have the right to be secretly/quietly irritated by this response? stackoverflow.com/questions/67220620/…
 
@mickmackusa No, I don't think so. His response seemed honest, appropriate (it described his own state of mind), and in no way an attack on you or your comment.
 
12:58 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels I don't actually mean irritated at the individual, but irritated at the philosphy. I mean, jeepers, how many people would be holding such a philosophy?!?
 
@mickmackusa Some have the philosophy of "do all to improve the site's signal to noise ratio" and others " do all to help specific individuals who come here with their problems". This can result in collisions of philosophy at times, but for the most part, we peacefully coexist, and the site benefits some from both types (and all in between)
 
@mickmackusa I was in a similar position at one point. I didn't even know answering dupes was a problem, until an SOCVR regular pointed it out to me in comments. This may be the first time it's been pointed out to that user.
 
@mickmackusa even if they don't close enough posts, it's still impressive that they answer that many questions. I mean I didn't think it was humanly possible. Plus, they do have dedication. (personally I think it is impossible to gain a million rep on Stack Overflow without answering a single closable question)
 
I know I was answering dupes for a long while before I was made aware by YourCommonSense (angrily)
@10Rep that's okay for you to appreciate them, I don't necessarily appreciate dedication to redundant content.
when you have 1M rep, you can be fairly certain that you've answered questions that are duplicates of earlier questions where you have posted the accepted answer.
This is why "awareness" is so important -- as expressed in my latest meta question.
 
The fact is that the users with high rep can't find enough high quality questions to answer (because frankly, there are not enough high quality questions out there)... and they do answer high quality questions a lot as well. I'm starting to learn SQL and I've used one of Gordon Linoff's answers already.
 
1:11 AM
@10Rep yes, no question. Gordon Linoff is one of the great contributors, but I don't think he is closing as much as he could. He doesn't need points anymore, so he could exponentially help SO by ramping up the curation efforts.
I have closed pages that Gordon has answered using pages that he already answered. One would think that this sets off alarm bells.
but if he is just answering and moving on, then he never becomes aware that he answered a duplicate question.
 
@mickmackusa yes, that is true. At the rate he is answering, once he writes one answer, he has to move on to the next question. Not that it's correct, of course.
oh ofc
 
To me this post looks like it lacks a lot of details.
 
1:47 AM
@mickmackusa the way to make people notice that they've answered a duplicate is to delete the duplicates. I think they'll notice the rep change...
@bad_coder see the last comment, it's not reproducible
 
@Nick I could not agree more
 
dbc
Is this spam or just NAA? stackoverflow.com/a/67222615/3744182
 
@dbc probably just a misguided user. definitely NAA
@mickmackusa you already commented so I already knew...
 
@Nick yeah, I just couldn't resist the poetry of it ;)
 
@mickmackusa I know... I did smile...
 
2:01 AM
that was a weird question to be honest. I don't know why the OP was going to such trouble to get the column names
 
@dbc Since the link actually doesn't work, there's nothing really being promoted, so I wouldn't call that spam. It's NAA of course.
 
@cigien is there a special name for "spoiled spam"?
 
@mickmackusa I suspect there was actually more to it that wasn't in the question; it could be answered by just creating the array instead of a query string. But given what was there it probably wasn't unreasonable to close as a dupe.
 
If it is attempted spam, is it still spam? What if the link doesn't work now but it works tomorrow?
 
dbc
Well at least post was correct! When am try to open (omitted) it show an error please assist me
 
2:04 AM
@mickmackusa I've heard it referred to as "failed spam", e.g. an attempt at spam that didn't work. That answer doesn't appear to be that either.
 
@mickmackusa here's another one for you, I've even cast the first delete vote already! stackoverflow.com/questions/67179346/…
 
@mickmackusa It's spam even if it's a failed attempt at spamming, that's for sure.
 
@mickmackusa that would imply that spam wasn't spoiled to begin with...
 
 
2 hours later…
4:13 AM
@Nick is this really true? Is that how the hammers are working on that tag?
 
4:37 AM
is this a rant?
 
@bad_coder yup, I've had it happen to me enough times that I've given up closing dupes, see also @mickmackusa comment
@SurajRao r/a or spam, take your pick...
 
I finally switched to a different browser and updated my Tampermonkey userscripts ... the cv-pls userscript appears to be working otherwise, but I still don't see the cv-pls checkbox in the close vote dialog on questions; was this retired? or offered by a different userscript?
also, unlike my other userscripts, it doesn't show favicons for the sites it is enabled for the the Tampermonkey scripts listing (the place where you can see versions and configure options of individual userscripts)
I have 1.10.2.0
my browser is Brave (basically Chrome with the Google parts gutted out)
 
5:11 AM
@Nick I had no idea, thanks for the insight. I suppose the logic is the side with most hammers will win the close war. But if you decided to withdraw I take that's probably the better decision.
 
@bad_coder and once you've closed once you can't close again, so then you have to try and get others to close, but by then the question has been answered anyway; the answers always seem to be waiting to be posted the instant the question is reopened.
 
@Nick "the answers seem to be waiting" (I have to give that a LOL, some things don't happen by chance for sure). I have to wonder what's the point, wait I see it getting the accept bonus to go over the rep-cap.
 
@bad_coder yup, takes a lot of accepts to get 400+ rep a day...
 
 
6:19 AM
@tripleee It should be there with version 1.10.2.0, which is what you have. However, I have not tested on Brave. I will need to investigate why it wasn't working.
Showing site favicons in Tampermonkey's dashboard is based on Tampermonkey relatively naively parsing out which sites will be in the userscript's match and include declarations, but not in the exclude declarations, if any. However, even though the include directive is a regular expression, Tampermonkey doesn't actually parse the regular expression all that well, and there's no direct way to declare that favicons should be shown from specific sites.
It would be possible to rewrite the include directive into multiple includes, or even more match directives. However, doing so would likely come at a performance penalty for every page you open, not just ones which are matched. It would also likely have a maintenance cost, as it would spread that logic out across multiple statements.
If there was more information on how Tampermonkey parses these wrt. showing favicons, as opposed to how they are used for matching URLs, then it might be possible to accomplish a rewrite with not too much performance impact.
 
6:30 AM
Is there something in the deleted answers that explains why this -2 question with a single -1 answer that just links to Wikipedia was reopened? To me, it just looks like someone's homework stackoverflow.com/q/65977189
 
@DavidBuck The comments to the question explain why it was reopened. One of the reopen voters thought the dupe target was incorrect and also wanted to answer it themself.
 
@JeanneDark But then didn't answer it when reopened or vote to close with a better dupe target. Given that one of the reopen votes chastened the OP about writing poor quality questions, it still seems to be closable.
 
6:46 AM
It also looks closable to me.
 
7:34 AM
 
mck
The second 100000-reviewer has arrived: stackoverflow.com/review/close/stats
11
 
@Makyen oh nvm, it started to work after I had to restart my browser for other reasons
 
@tripleee OK. I'm glad to hear it's working for you.
 
I just gained rights to the review queue You’ve earned access to the Suggested edits queue!xD
 
7:55 AM
I got that the other day too (-:
 
8:22 AM
Hey, I made a post yesterday that I would like to close, however I do not feel any of the options meet my beliefs. Would like some input
 
this one? stackoverflow.com/questions/67210104/… don't edit to mark it as "closed"; instead, just delete it
 
My problem is not yet solveable as ive made a github issue, and they have added it for a future version. However the close vote ui only gives me options for off topic, dupe, opinion based etc.
@tripleee I do not wan't to delete it as I feel like the solution would be a nice addition to people running into the same problem. As my question has a solution.
 
an answer like "this is not currently possible" is perfectly fine
 
You mean, I should answer my own question?
 
the fact that none of the close reasons apply is a strong hint that you should probably not close this; what you can do is answer, accept, and move on
if eventually there is a better answer you can accept that instead
 
8:25 AM
Ight cheers @tripleee
 
9:05 AM
@Tomm I would even say that the workarounds in the question could be an answer(s). When/if the fix is published, you can update
 
9:22 AM
@Tomerikoo So your saying I could put those in my answer and give them some explanation for future readers?
 
@Tomm I think. To be honest, I didn't read your question to details (I don't know much about php). But if you think you found a problem that others might have, there is no built solution and you found a workaround for the problem - that sounds like an answer to me. Furthermore, if you want to be really helpful, follow the issue, and update your question/answer when a solution is built-in in a new version
 
@Tomerikoo Cheers, that sounds good.
 
9:42 AM
0
Q: Any last [word]s?

Mohd Abdul MujibThis tag needs to die as its very ambigous, and vague. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? This tag doesn't help to describe the question in any way. It doesn't give us any information about the real content of the question, looking at it ...

 
mck
Just received an un-upvote on a 2-month old answer... super strange.
 
9:57 AM
@mck Did you edit it lately?
 
@mck You do realize that some people actually use this site to conduct research and those people upvote answers that are helpful to them, right?
 
@mickmackusa I believe you're confusing as I did at first. It says un-upvote
 
To be honest, I once looked into my first upvotes cast and could not understand why I did them. I was probably in the "oh curious, what could it be" phase, rather than being actually critical about the posts.
 
@Tomerikoo ah yes, correct.
For that matter, I have had a few rouge, un-edited un-accepts in my time. The green tick wasn't moved to another answer, just removed from mine!
 
Meh, that green tick is a mess anyway. There are stories of people (ab)using it to rotate answer attention.
 
10:25 AM
@mickmackusa rouge as opposed to green then?
2
 
@Tomerikoo ha, yes
@Tomerikoo Was there a convincingly correct answer that was less than 5 minutes old, then the poster decided that it wasn't a good answer, then decided to eradicate the contents and delete the post?
 
@mickmackusa Oh right, forgot about the "grace period" for editing not appearing as a revision
 
@Tomerikoo we can only wait and hope that when the poster gets hungry for those lingering 20 rep, that they put something worthwhile in the answer. :)
 
KNP
10:48 AM
Any idea about why this gem installation failing stackoverflow.com/questions/67228610/…
any help will be great
 
Not sure if you joined the wrong room, but SO Close vote is for help and discussion regarding the cleanup of so
 
KNP
oops sorry
 
 
1 hour later…
Morning
I somehow got a random answer accept 4.5 years after answering \o/
 
@NathanOliver I love those. Better late than never :)
 
agreed :)
 
Does this question seem to be an off-site resource request? I'm on the fence (partially due to Jon Skeet)
 
12:10 PM
@Machavity I would leave it
 
@Machavity Jon focused on the premise "if selecting arch optimize IL". You could make the question about that if there's no other question about it.
Mark also addressed the premise too.
 
@DavidBuck I don't really think this is asking for resources.
 
Please remove this tag -ly - Open Qs - Close Queue - Meta Wiki - Rodgort
7
 
1:01 PM
@Tomerikoo ooops, this is not recent :)
 
@desertnaut No but it is due to the complete burnination. This is why I bothered to add it specifically to the request
 
@Tomerikoo never mind, it was edited recently - just now ;)
 
Yeah well I could do that as well... According to the Meta Wiki off-topic questions should just be closed without editing. But I guess that editing-out the tag is just as fine. Still, I think the question should be closed...
 
@Tomerikoo "editing questions to improve the question and remove the tag"
 
"If the question is not appropriate for this site, then don't worry about removing the complete tag—just flag/vote to close the question." ...
 
1:07 PM
but if you had edited yourself, you could not post a request here, according to the room rules
@Tomerikoo well, "don't worry" is different than "don't do it", right? In any case, good thing I had not read the Meta thread... :)
 
@Tomerikoo We don't put burnination posts in here. Any cv-pls requests needs to obey the rules of the room. Burnination efforts are not part of this room
 
Will the the burnination of is ?
2
 
@Dharman Oh okay that's a different story. Got it, thanks Dharman
 
I don't know. still is not finished
 
@Dharman FWIW we have to wait for devs on that one. Unless you want to remove the tags from 1k or so questions
One of those places where Shog9 is sorely missed
 
1:16 PM
I think there's still plenty that need to be closed
It's just that it was a large tag and not many people have so many votes/time to spare
It's not like we are not doing cleanup activities of our own
 
That's fine. Nobody is accusing anyone of slacking. We had to have about 90% of [ibm] removed by a dev
 
Also, username has a lot of useless questions. Especially in PHP many of upvoted ones or with lots of views can be closed and removed. Salvaging them makes no sense like it did with other tags.
 
@Machavity Nobody is accusing anyone of slacking. Where's @rene?
 
Wut?
 
Slackers, all of them...
 
1:29 PM
Don't bother me. I'm prepping for the vrijmibo
 
Did someone say slacker?
 
E_net4 the slacker?
 
Does anyone know, what is the tag for? Is it just for people to tag their homework with, or does it have some useful purpose?
 
It's a honey-pot tag. You open it when you have some cv to spare
 
1:39 PM
@Dharman What did you call me? ;)
Well, that still ought to be nicer than some of the "niceties" I keep seeing.
 
1:52 PM
@Zoe Keep the discord to a minimum in here, plzthx
 
Bob Weasley?
 
Can this question be salvaged (a "How to" question that is not too broad)? Attracted very low quality answers.
 
2:16 PM
Closed it and removed the two NAAs
 
Thank you
 
2:37 PM
Not all mods like to dance ...
 
Zoe
@Machavity :dontfeelsoblob:
 
That brought some issues back in the Dance Dance Authentication trend.
 
2:59 PM
@khelwood What I think is about: questions that lean more on theory like algorithmic questions or data structures and similar. So, probably partially overlaps with or but it's a bit different - an algorithm tagged is just about implementing something, if it's tagged it might be comparing existing well-known algorithms.
What it's actually used for is likely not the above.
Also, I'd expect a lot of to also be welcome on CS.SE
 
4:15 PM
@Dharman @Tomerikoo Please see this block of messages for a bit more detail about requests in here in support of a burnination. The TLDR is: permitted, but generally discouraged.
 
Thanks @Makyen. For some reason I thought the room will be a reasonable place to support the process but your linked explanation clears that
 
@Tomerikoo We do support the burnination process. It's just that having individual cv-pls requests for every question which is being closed is really inefficient, to the point where it's detrimental to the overall functioning of the room, and doesn't really help the burnination all that much vs. making sure people know the burnination is ongoing, so they can filter the close-vote queue on the tag.
The additional consideration is that closure for burnination really doesn't have the same urgency which is "normal" for a cv-pls. For most questions involved in a burnination, it's quite unlikely that they will receive an answer in the near-term. Thus, they don't need to be closed rapidly, but they do need to be closed. It's just a lot easier to do that in bulk by filtering the CV queue. OTOH, there are circumstances which can make it desirable for a specific question to be closed rapidly.
 
@Makyen Of course, I was just trying to be succinct in my comment. I understand now the exact way this room supports the process. Thanks for the explanations :) Indeed there was no urgency in the request I posted it was basically the first one I encountered so now I know better. It indeed makes a lot more sense to do those closures through a filtered queue
 
4:30 PM
@Tomerikoo np. Sometimes I have a tendency to try to clarify things a bit too much. :;
 
 
1 hour later…
6:21 PM
Moaning all ... is it common to have comments that are explanations removed from answers?
 
@tink Yup
If said explanation is already on the answer itself.
 
Hmmm ... what if someone asks you "what is the benefit of your solution over the answer above" and you explain that it's quicker by a factor of ~ 400 and provide timing information? :) @Braiam ... I thought that both are valid, and neither were in the answer ...
 
@tink If it's an improvement on the answer, why it's not included on it?
 
That's a fair question
It hadn't occurred to me.
 
dbc
6:36 PM
Is rodgort.sobotics.org/progress?metaQuestionId=406885 currently working? When I click through I get a mostly blank screen with just The [complete] tag is being burninated / View meta post. Maybe it now requires 3rd party cookies to work?
 
6:48 PM
Should this be mod-flagged? stackoverflow.com/a/67234764/1839439
 
@Dharman I say edit. If the poster keeps doing it in other answers or brings it back, then flag.
 
7:03 PM
@dbc It doesn't appear to require 3rd party cookies, but did require someone to click a button to approve that the tag should be tracked. Hopefully, it's working now. The display has updated.
 
dbc
And now there's some content. Thanks!
Does that mean the work we've done so far will not have been tracked?
 
@dbc Honestly, I'm not sure, but I suspect that will end up being the case. There may be some records stored, but I wouldn't count on it.
 
@mck It's focused enough, but could you also edit in a small input/output example to make it a bit clearer?
 
8:03 PM
Did you know that questions closed as duplicates do not appear in the potential duplicate search list?
or they do, but they are severely penalized
 
OP just accepted an answer of mine - from 2016 (!!!)
 
Never too late
 
8:20 PM
@desertnaut Woot. I had the same thing today. Maybe SO is doing something to remind users
 
Maybe that question needs to be deleted?
 
@desertnaut I stand corrected. The request probably shouldn't have been posted. I since learned how burninations are treated in the room. Apologies :)
 
@Tomerikoo hey relax; thought we had resolved this ;)
@Tomerikoo at the end of the day, I got your back
 
If I am unhappy with existing answer, is it ok to reopen the question and provide another answer?
 
@desertnaut /heart-eyed emoji
 
8:27 PM
 
8:38 PM
@Dharman I don't have time to dig through Meta, but I'm 99% sure there's a post somewhere that says it's OK
 
@Dharman The existing answer, or whether you can write a better answer, shouldn't really matter. If the question is not a duplicate, it should be reopened. If the duplicate closure is correct, then it should stay closed. You could add an answer on the target.
 
@Machavity As an SME what do you think about me reopening it?
 
@cigien The answer would not be suitable on the duplicate target as the other question is about something else
 
@Dharman Then they are not duplicates, right ;)
 
8:40 PM
@Dharman Then the duplicate closure is wrong, and it should be reopened. (assuming there isn't another target that's appropriate).
 
@Dharman What do you think the answer is missing? It's does need the connection resource (which the most common mysqli problem)
 
Yeah, but it feels like I am committing a crime by reopening a question.
 
@Dharman it's not illegal, so you don't have to feel that way.
 
@Machavity The function does not need to be called at all, the 4th argument can be used instead
 
@Dharman I'm on the fence there. On the one hand, you're right. You don't need that function anymore (I suspect it's to keep compatibility with the mysql_ functions)
On the other... a lot of people miss that connection resource passing. And the dupe covers precisely that. Plus that is technically what they asked
 
8:46 PM
I know it makes no sense to have a duplicate for each function, but that is what we have right now. e.g. stackoverflow.com/questions/7743372/…
It makes it easier to find
We probably don't need them in 20 copies each but 1 of each is good.
 
You do have a point there. We want people to find it by googleing
It's not quite as bad as the Java NPE problem (same issue, wildly differing error messages)
 
Oh, the good ol' expects exactly X parameters Y given :D
 
I feel like I have deleted a ton of them, but there's still more.
 
That's a pretty generic error message, I suppose one canonical for each function that throws it (and I'm sure other libraries/frameworks/languages also have the same issue)
(R has a expected a vector or a single value, X given)
 
@Braiam To be fair, PHP had a whole subsystem to handle MySQL and it did some... not so good things. When PHP cleaned it up, they strove to keep it as much the same, but they also made it OOP
 
8:50 PM
So we kept the bad stuff but added more to confuse people
 
What's not clear (especially for folks writing in the older styles) is the new method needs you to explicitly pass the DB connection. The old one did it automatically
 
Yay, incomplete backwards compatibility :D
 
More or less. They made static methods as wrappers to the OOP
 
BTW, while I'm a big fan of backwards compatibility, I also recognize when a interface has design issues and has to go.
 
The old methodology was also part of the "It should just work" mentality pervasive in PHP 3 and 4. Which is where you get some of the worst parts of PHP, like register globals
 
9:35 PM
@Machavity what the heck was that...
 
\o
o/
 
is this general computing (SD reported answer)? stackoverflow.com/questions/64763831/…
 
@Braiam It allowed the end-users to set PHP global variables without having to code them in the software
 
@desertnaut Is Adobe XD a tool primarily used by programmers?
 
9:57 PM
@NathanOliver i have no idea at all what it is, that's why i am asking!
 
@Dharman I was asking what was what the devs were smoking when they decided to allow that :/
 
PHP
4
 
Someone should create a language called THC, at least you already know what will happen
 
 
1 hour later…
11:12 PM
I just realised that I lost 18 reputation by reviewing LQP...
 
@10Rep But, you will probably get a bunch of that back in the not too distant future. :)
 
@Nkosi Looks like the question should probably be closed but I don't see any requests for off-site resources... Am I missing something?
 
They basically want a tutorial
 
@Tomerikoo Original related post stackoverflow.com/questions/67232874/…
 
11:17 PM
@Makyen That is true, but I did also downvote some low quality answers that weren't NAA. I wish the -1 rep thing didn't even exist :(
 
@Nkosi Oh so it's also a case of a repeating poster... Well, anyway I voted to close as needing details
 
@Tomerikoo They broke up the original into multiple broad posts but wont link them here to avoid targeting.
 
@10Rep Yeah, from a personal voting standpoint, I agree. OTOH, I understand the reasoning behind having it. Although, a lot of that could have been accomplished by just charging the -1, or even -2, for each downvote on an answer where you also have and answer on the same question.
Perhaps, also have downvotes on the same person's answers cost progressively more (e.g. 0 for the first one, -1 for any additional; or maybe even more aggressive).
To change it would really require taking a hard look at what it was intended to accomplish and what it is actually accomplishing. I know that it resulted in me being much more reluctant to downvote answers prior to having a significant amount of reputation.
 
11:39 PM
@Makyen That is a good idea assuming the goal was to prevent users from downvoting "rivaling" answers to promote their own. But still someone about to answer a question with existing answers could potentially downvote the answers "for free" and only then post their answer...
 
@Tomerikoo I'd assumed that it would be retroactive, if you did that.
 
@Makyen Yeah I guess from a technical point of view it shouldn't be too hard to implement...
Well, you have my support for a feature request ;)
 
11:58 PM
How do the rollbacks on edited questions work? The OP of this one modified the question to be a new one, basically invalidating my accepted answer.
And asking me in a comment to my answer to look at the changes.
 

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