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12:29 AM
 
 
4 hours later…
 
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6:33 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
8:05 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:07 AM
This looks like spam (link goes to a download page with tons of adverts, and it doesn't appear to be relevant to the question). Can anyone see why it's not worth a red flag?
 
@AdrianMole pure spam. Targeted at females by the looks of it, or the ad machine thinks I have that gender ....
 
Their other answer also contain thas suspicious link
 
With flowers, it's hard to tell gender.
 
true that. I keep it vague for Google ads, blurred as you wish
 
user17433563
9:53 AM
Question: If I reported a question as a duplicate, and found an even better duplicate, can I change the flag? At the moment I mention it is a duplicate in an answer to the question.
 
user17433563
Found it - my eyes and GUIS are not a good fit. Sorry
 
user17433563
Ah ... can remove it, but not add another ....
 
10:10 AM
@KlavsPeder you can add a new comment, don't retract your flag, just change the comment
or delete the old comment and post a new one if it's too late to edit
probably don't post answers pointing out duplicates; instead, bring it up here to have it closed
I'm not a person so can't decide which one to actually vote to close at, but someone who is will want to plst a cv-pls for the question related to stackoverflow.com/a/70540905/874188
now that you do have an answer, the room rules prohibit you from posting a cv-pls yourself unless you delete your answer
 
10:27 AM
@mickmackusa is this worth keeping or should we post a del-pls? stackoverflow.com/questions/18147738/…
 
10:57 AM
@PetterFriberg ah thanks,, I will put that down to mouse slip
 
Is this just a rehash/copy of this? If so, is it plagiarism? Either way the question should be closed as a duplicate, IMHO (but I'm out of CVs, so...)
... was going to post a cv-pls but now I can't work out which should be closed.
The newer question is better and has an older answer.
 
11:14 AM
@tripleee I am very comfortable with the deletion of the page. The question is asking how to perform storage and all answers are recommending bad advice. Either not using normalization or otherwise demonstrating insecure querying. The page should never be used to close a future question. I voted to delete.
 
@mickmackusa thanks, concur
 
11:34 AM
 
12:00 PM
@tripleee it seems last year's meta posts about close/reopen del/undel battles are still a thing
since I've got access to the 10k tools I couldn't help noticing certain patterns... really not sure what to do in those cases
that Q looks like deserving a del vote, but... heh...
 
hm, not sure what you are alluding to?
 
to the post timeline
and the situation connected to this and other similar meta posts
 
I'm not sure it's altogether that dramatic, Wiktor and konsolebox thought the OP improved their post but anubhava still thought it was a duplicate, perhaps without knowledge of the previous history
I can't avoid naming names, anubhava certainly has a low threshold for simply answering instead of going to look for duplicates, so if they closed it, I would regard it as an obvious slam dunk
 
don't get me wrong, I didn't want to call you out for posting that del-pls or anything. feel free to ignore me
I'm just curious and mildly concerned about certain patterns that I see in the 10k tools involving regex questions
 
I'm not in the least troubled, just wanted to understand what you were trying to say
 
12:10 PM
that I see recurring close/reopen and delete/undelete patterns involving the same set of users around regex questions, which I'm not sure how to interpret
as a less experienced curator, I ask myself if and how it's worth it to take part in that area of site moderation
 
the regex tag is a morass for sure, there are a lot of low-quality questions
generally I think Wiktor does a good job of identifying common duplicates
 
@blackgreen Many (if not most) of the site's diamond moderators probably ask themselves (and/or each other) the same question. ;-)
... there are some Big meta posts on the subject.
The R tag has similar issues. Maybe we should have an egex tag? Meaning: I want a regex but I don't want anyone with more than a bronze tag-badge in R to get involved in this question; in any way.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:22 PM
Do we delete this closed, opinion-based page? stackoverflow.com/q/2141585/2943403
 
@mickmackusa The question in my mind is, does it have "historical value" and so should it be locked for that reason. It would probably be best to ask our PHP experts their opinion on this.
 
@mickmackusa That's not opinion based, it's looking for recommendations
Try to apply the same process we did last time meta.stackoverflow.com/q/341987/792066
 
user17433563
2:41 PM
@tripleee Ty, will do
 
@Braiam "share our favourite ones" <-- opinion-based as well.
 
Should this comment be flagged for deletion? It has valid points but includes profanity. stackoverflow.com/questions/2141585/… Would mods prefer to edit the comment?
 
@KlavsPeder You are involved in that post. You can't bring it here in this room. see socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-requests-youre-involved
 
Zoe
2:57 PM
@E_net4isnotinablockchain Funny how some things go full circle :')
They also self-deleted, hence the initially short ban
 
@mickmackusa Well, yeah, but can you edit it to not ask that?
 
@Braiam of course, but should anyone bother?
 
3:23 PM
@mickmackusa I mean, at least lets say we tried.
 
3:52 PM
^ spam?
also the question is probably off-topic
 
4:14 PM
 
user17433563
Do you know a forum, where you can ask who the most abusive stackoverflow moderator is, without violating the forum rules?

Example:

- I flag a question as a duplicate, but accidentally paste the wrong link.
- I try to retract my flag, which succeeds, but can't create another duplacte flag, because I already added on (but deleted it)
- I create an answer, where I post the duplicates and provide a better answer, just to make sure my answer helps the OP.
- I ask in the moderator chat, how I can report the question as a duplicate, and a moderator tells me to link the question in the chat, and
 
user17433563
Happy new year.
 
@KlavsPeder You should raise your concern on Meta.Stack Overflow if you have a specific one, but starting a witch hunt will not be received favorably; you'll get your question downvoted and closed in short order, most likely. If you want to discuss personal/sensitive issues, flag one of your posts for a moderator and ask them to create a private chatroom for you to discuss your concerns.
We don't discuss user moderation here.
 
user17433563
Seems to me that Rene is on a witch hunt
 
@KlavsPeder Rene is not a moderator on SO
 
user17433563
4:21 PM
I was adviced by another member of this chat to do what I did.
 
user17433563
So you are saying that he just likes to abuse this chat?
 
user17433563
when I write moderator chat = I mean this chat
 
What are you considering an abuse?
 
user17433563
Deleting a chat what I was told to do by another member of this chat.
 
user17433563
Would you find it abusive if I deleted your chats now?
 
4:23 PM
@KlavsPeder Actually, no, that's not all that user said. That user explicitly told you that you wouldn't be permitted to post a request in this room about that question unless you deleted your answer.
 
@KlavsPeder No, I would not. You are not the room owner so you can't delete message. A room owner can delete any messages at their discretion, it's their room
 
user17433563
No, he said I had a conflict of interest
 
user17433563
But I had to query him.\
 
Rene is a room owner here, and he moved your messages of yours that violated our room rules (the specific rules he even linked to for your benefit). That's not abuse, it's the standard duty of a room owner.
 
user17433563
he said I had a conflict of interest
 
user17433563
4:25 PM
That was the reason he provided
 
Yes, you had a non-deleted answer on the question.
That's a conflict of interest
 
user17433563
No it is not, because I can report the duplicate anyway
 
@mickmackusa it has other questions closed as dupes of it so we can't delete it anyway
@KlavsPeder Yes, it is, because we say it is. We decide the rules for how we operate.
 
4:26 PM
@richardec probably spam
 
@KlavsPeder Please read the SOCVR FAQ, which provides detailed information of the rules for this room, in particular for making requests for other users to perform actions on posts.
 
@richardec If you find a spam or troll post and you want to report it here, please prefix the chat message with [tag:flag-pls]
that way we know what action you are requesting
 
@KlavsPeder We don't want people to to answer a question and then use the room to close said question so no other answers can be provided. if it's a duplicate, delete your answer and we can close it as such
4
 
user17433563
Can I a report a question as a duplicate AND create an answer ? Yes.
 
user17433563
So, as I already wrote, I reported the wrong link, and wanted to correct that
 
user17242583
4:29 PM
@TylerH good idea. I was just posting it here because I don't have privileges with SmokeDetector yet, so when I flag it as spam, it doesn't notify the various chat rooms that it usually does. so I was posting here to get attention to it. But flagging is better.
 
user17433563
I couldn't care less, I have my 50 points so I can comment, I am only here to help, or was.
 
@richardec you can use the socvr user script to send a flag-pls request. It's one of the options in the dropdown
 
@KlavsPeder BTW: I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the difference between users performing user-level moderation tasks, chat room owners, and elected moderators. That is particularly desirable if you are going to post on Meta Stack Overflow, as being imprecise about which of those you're writing about can result in confusion and your post being negatively received.
 
user17433563
That's not gonna happen if this is the behavior of the people involved in the site
 
@richardec agreed, definitely flag it on your own regardless :-)
 
user17433563
4:30 PM
There are plenty of places you can help out
 
@KlavsPeder you can do that on the site, but you are not allowed to request closure here if you do that, because this room does not allow conflicts of interest, even though the main site does
We are more restrictive
 
user17433563
I didnt request closure here, I requested that my flag be raised
 
user17433563
Which the gui prevents me to do
 
@KlavsPeder What in your opinion is this room? I am honestly curious to understand your pespective
 
@KlavsPeder You're asking us to flag something for closure for you, which for users with more than 3k reputation means close vote something for you. That's the same as 'requesting closure'
 
user17433563
4:33 PM
I asked here what to do. I did what I was advised to do.
 
@KlavsPeder No, you didn't. You did part of what you were advised to do.
 
user17433563
I was told to post the link to the question herre, and leave the duplicates in comment.
 
user17433563
What is partial about that?
 
user17433563
Should I do something different, than what I was adviced to do?
 
@KlavsPeder And, you were also told in the same sequence of messages, once the user realized that you had an answer on the question, that you would not be permitted to make a request in this room about that question unless you deleted your answer. You then made a request, or effectively a request, about that question without deleting your answer.
 
4:35 PM
Can you link to the message that asked you to paste the link here?
 
user17433563
Again, what you write does not make sense. If I hadnt pasted the wrong link, I could report the correct link.
 
user17433563
Without involving anyone
 
I suspect part of the difficulty here is in your choice of terminology. There isn't really "reporting" on Stack Overflow. Do you mean "flagging a question as a duplicate"?
 
user17433563
And the two question I link, one of them is also a duplicate
 
user17433563
4:39 PM
@TylerH yes
 
@KlavsPeder Perhaps there's some terminology confusion. You say you raised a flag and then retracted it. Yes, once you retract a flag, other than an "in need of moderator intervention" flag, you will not be permitted to raise the same type of flag (and, in some cases, similar types of flags, e.g. spam and rude/abusive). That's how the system works. Nobody can raise a flag for you, unless you've given them authorization to use your account.
 
Another issue is that Rene left the critical thinking to you regarding 'what to do next' after reading the rules he linked. If you post an invalid/inappropriate request here, yes it does get moved out of the room, but what Rene didn't explicitly mention is that you can re-post the request if you are able to fix the issue causing it to be invalid/inappropriate.
In other words, now that you have deleted your answer, you are once again eligible/allowed to post a request here for that question.
 
user17433563
But what is the purpose of the site?
 
What site? Stack Overflow? Or this chat room?
 
user17433563
The purpose is to ask questions and provide answers, to help each other, right?
 
user17433563
4:44 PM
And as you can see I have no questions, because I have developed software for 35+ years, and programmed for 40.
 
@KlavsPeder That's a bit of a non-sequitur. Also, what does the purpose of the site have to do with you violating the rules of this room?
 
> Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers. It's built and run by you as part of the Stack Exchange network of Q&A sites. With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed, high-quality answers to every question about programming. - stackoverflow.com/tour
 
user17433563
Again, I did what I was told to do by @tripleee - in this room
 
user17433563
So I ask again, should I do the oppsite / something other, than what I was adviced to do?
 
user17433563
So one person says 'write it here', another deletes it, and if I hadn't asked, I wouldn't know what/why.
 
user17433563
4:50 PM
And again, I could flag it, without asking here, if I hadnt pasted the wrong link.
 
@KlavsPeder Here's the thing you seem to have missed: tripleee said you couldn't do what the standard procedure is because you have a conflict of interest
either you missed that, or ignored it, before posting the message(s) that rene moved earlier
but now we've told you several times, and also told you the next steps several times
 
user17433563
Yes, remove the answer that is more robust for production :D
 
user17433563
Which I did
 
user17433563
You can't see the irony?
 
To summarize: If something should be closed, link us to it and don't answer the question
 
4:52 PM
No, "remove the answer that you authored" is what he said.
 
deleting one's answer is a poor man's not having answered :D
 
It sounds now like you are antagonizing the room as being counter to the purposes of the site writ large, which is a different argument/matter and also not one we're likely to entertain for long (since it's not correct)
 
user17433563
It's a guy that gets chat deleted immediately, thinking wtf.
 
btw, the answer doesn't have to be deleted in order to post a cv-pls here. It can also be made community wiki
 
user17433563
It's a guy wondering, why have people, if they behave like programs
 
user17433563
4:54 PM
Might as well automate it all
 
@KlavsPeder You have fallen into this trap: i.stack.imgur.com/z7DHB.jpg Using this site is the 'complex but right' side. Unfortunately, most people who come to Stack Overflow think/prefer the 'simple but wrong' side.
 
user17433563
It's like the police stopping a guy from crossing the street at 4am saterday morning (tomorrow) when they cross the street with the stop sign lit, when he and the police are the only people awake in the city.
 
That right-hand side is the exact reason Stack Overflow is the famous, high-quality site that it is today with the reputation for usefulness it has.
if you want the left-hand side, Quora, Reddit, Microsoft discussion forums, etc. all serve that role.
 
Honestly, I have no idea what this conversation is about anymore.
 
@KlavsPeder Yes, jay-walking is illegal and police officers should direct users to use the crosswalks
because it's safer
and better for traffic flow
 
4:56 PM
@Dharman I just woke up from a nap... glad to hear that I am not the only one.
 
user17433563
But there is not traffic in the example I raise
 
I just want to know if jay-walking is legal in jQuery.
 
user17433563
I.e. my equivalent > Why have people when they behave like programs
 
@KlavsPeder the law is not contingent on there being any traffic around
 
Who is behaving like program and why?
 
4:57 PM
if it were it would say so
 
user17242583
Hey look: this question can be undeleted at any second by a 10k user: stackoverflow.com/questions/909674/why-is-vb-so-popular
 
specifically it does not say so because you can't always see traffic in time as a pedestrian
 
user17242583
It needs 6 undel-votes and it has 5
 
user17433563
Ok, so Rene is not the only one
 
for the same reason you should always use your turn signal when changing lanes (yes, even you, BMW owners), even if you don't see any other cars around. There might be a car around that you can't see, but it can see you
@richardec Are you requesting that it be undeleted?
Or just remarking on the current state of affairs
 
user17433563
4:59 PM
Thank you for feedback, I now know this not a site for actual people to help other people
 
user17433563
Good luck, and happy new year.
 
user17433563
Bye
 
user17242583
@TylerH No, I'm not at all. I certainly think it should stay deleted. But what if some 10k+ user feels a temptation to just click the button, knowing they can decide if it stays deleted or undeleted at that moment?
 
user17433563
Forever :D
 
@KlavsPeder If that's your takeaway then you have completely misunderstood everything thus far. I recommend you take some time to read the site rules and FAQ to better understand things.
 
5:00 PM
This is a very strange conclusion to draw from this converstation
 
@richardec If they do you can vote to delete it again or raise a del-pls here (if it hasn't been del-pls'd here before and you haven't successfully participated in a deletion of it before)
 
user17242583
I've no idea if it's been del-plsed before
 
@richardec I've also flagged it just now for moderator attention
@richardec The SOCVR request user script should tell you, I think.
 
user17242583
@TylerH to clear the undel votes?
 
no, to lock it permanently
although a moderator could undelete it and then re-delete it themselves if they wish
that would effectively lock it from undeletion by normal users
since only moderators can undelete posts deleted by moderators
 
user17242583
5:02 PM
Yeah, that would be good.
 
user17242583
@TylerH it definitely wasn't del-pls'd, I don't think. It was deleted 10 years ago.
 
user17242583
Please don't be scandalized, but tell me something. Not that I'm going to do it, but just what the general feeling about such a topic:
 
Preparing my scandal glasses now...
 
user17242583
:D
 
afraid.jpg
 
5:04 PM
Preparing my scandal scotch on the rocks now...
 
please share some @HovercraftFullOfEels
 
@rene: no, nothing doing. It's mine all mine
sorry
 
sad flower
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels your precious?
 
user17242583
What if I undeleted it (since I can, since it needs only one more vote) and then voted down on all its answers? Since it has flags on it (like yours @TylerH), it would get deleted soon, and I could probably(?) send a del-pls to have it deleted soon.
 
user17242583
5:06 PM
sorry, it's not so scandalous; I didn't expect such an uproar :D
 
@TylerH No, the Request Generator doesn't attempt to find prior requests. It only remembers if you made a prior request. To find if a prior request was made by anyone, you can use the chat search to look for the post ID.
 
@Turing85: exactly
 
@Makyen Ah, thanks. I was surprised when I heard about that, thinking "that's a heavy lookup request..."
makes more sense now
 
user17242583
it's basically like 21 free votes, because when the Q is deleted, I'll get those votes back but mine number won't go down
 
sounds like a waste of everybody's time; yours to begin with
 
5:07 PM
@richardec You can't rely on any flag being handled the way you expect, for what it's worth
even if you are 1000% sure, a mod can (and sometimes does) do the opposite
 
but if we fully automated the site,... ran it as if we were machines...
 
user17242583
hmm, yeah, and we wouldn't want a post that's actually marked as spam/ra to be undeleted for any long amount of time
 
If you undeleted it and voted down on all the answers, that wouldn't accomplish anything other than getting it undeleted
 
user17242583
@TylerH yes it would: my votes would be increased for free by 21 :P
 
5:08 PM
the answers are all positively scored high enough to not easily be delete-voteable even by half a dozen 20k users
 
user17242583
so 10k users couldn't delete it? but it's been closed for a long while.
 
yeah but del votes aren't infinite. why would someone be happy to waste one on a post that is already deleted
 
user17242583
right, but you wouldn't necessarily know that it was already deleted, because I wouldn't have discussed it like this ;)
 
user17242583
Sorry if it's a dumb question to ask, but it's just because I noticed that I have "unilateral" power to undelete this whole question, like a mod
 
user17242583
And the idea suddenly rose to my mind :)
 
5:24 PM
@richardec Why is that desirable though? Is it for the winterbash thing?
 
Wait, is this the hats room?
 
user17242583
haha, no @cigien, it's not for WB. and no @rene, this is not a (there are several) hats room :)
 
user17242583
@cigien it's mostly because I felt a strong urge to just undelete that question, just because I can
 
user17242583
and because when I'm about to delete (because there's only 1 more vote needed) a question, I usually DV as many answers and the Q as I can, I was wondering what would be actually wrong with that, besides the overall uselessness ;)
 
Fair enough, I totally understand wanting to exercise newly earned privileges :) Just be patient, you'll get to cast the last undelete vote on a post eventually. I wouldn't do that here because, apart from the fact that it's useless and a waste of time, as mentioned above, it's not actually the state you want the post to end up in. Generally, you should avoid taking an action on a post that's not what you want even if you're sure that the post will eventually end up in that state.
 
user17242583
5:37 PM
Thank you, such nice advice :D
 
5:49 PM
 
The current RO team has been discussing adding some new Room Owners and we're pleased to announce Dharman has accepted our invitation to join us in that role
24
 
6:04 PM
Congratulations @Dharman
 
thanks
 
6:55 PM
@KlavsPeder please stop.
 
7:10 PM
Are there any JavaScript experts in the room today?
Or perhaps better, if there are any experts here, does this question, Can somebody help me do this particular style of pagination?, have value for future visitors? Or should it be deleted?
 
8:27 PM
@richardec 10k users could vote to delete the question, but only 20k users can delete vote answers, and only then if the answer is at -1 or lower score. The question would not be any more or less "deletable" based on the status of the answers each having one less score. Any answer with any positive score will prevent Roomba from automatically deleting a question, for example.
 
It seems to be working :)
8
 
:D
 
8:54 PM
Hip hip
 
hm, a good part of the world is already in 2022 by now
congrats on becoming RO Dharman
 
@blackgreen I have to wonder how things look from the other side of the fence
 
oh, I’m still in 2021. Lately I’m stable at GMT+2
 
9:10 PM
@blackgreen GMT -5 here. Still 2021, sigh
 
Same, 4:11 PM here on the east coast of the US
 
I'm curious, are new ROs added at specific intervals, or when someone else ceases to be one?
 
@blackgreen not necessarily either of those
Just as the existing RO team feels there is a lack of coverage or when they observe someone who they think would be a great fit for the team
 
I see; and the current ROs are all those listed on the left side of the room info panel?
 
@blackgreen Being chosen to be RO for this room would be quite an honor. While it has lower recognition than being a site moderator, the ones who do the choosing are some of the most conscientious and knowledgeable users on the site
 
9:24 PM
and the room did actually laureate two site moderators
 
@blackgreen more than that, if it's just room members
Jean Francois and Baum mit Augen both were regulars here (though not ROs)
Bhargav was also a regular here
@blackgreen You can see the list of ROs here: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/info/41570/… under the "Owners" section
it includes retired ROs, since we don't remove access from voluntarily retired ROs
Zoe and Stephen also spent some time here before they were elected but haven't been 'regulars' in a while
 
yeah I used to see Zoe quite often last year
 
This room (and Charcoal, et al) happens to be a good way to get exposure to the kinds of moderation action posts on the site need, so people who are interested in moderation tend to end up here, and vice versa; people who end up here get exposed to moderation and may end up being good fits for elected moderator
 
get exposure to the kinds of moderation action posts on the site need — this is precisely why I've been hanging out more here lately
not that the [go] tag needs any more moderation than it already has... — but SO has been a constant presence throughout my career and it still is, so I'm happy to give back
 
 
1 hour later…
10:54 PM
@TylerH I was able to cast a delete vote on stackoverflow.com/q/2141585/2943403 despite the linked questions.
 
@mickmackusa maybe this is an undocumented bug/feature of gold badgers?
E.g. you have a gold badge in PHP so you can ignore the duplicate thing
I can't, I get the 'this question cannot be deleted' modal:
 
Dunno. This has happened multiple times before (and I have received similar feedback from this room), but I never bothered to isolate why.
 
the only other privilege you would have that I don't would be 25k, trusted user, but it doesn't mention any actual privileges, only access to site traffic data
so I'm guessing it's probably due to the gold badge. Are there any other PHP gold badgers in here who are not moderators who could test, I wonder?
maybe Dharman can try
he is still sub 25k for a few more days/weeks, probably, but has a PHP gold badge
 
I can't vote to delete it and I want to
@mickmackusa I fixed it. @TylerH
 
11:42 PM
Need help with this question: How do i display an image in terminal. It doesn't look fully programming related and looks more to be about recommendations. Thoughts? Thanks!
Actually, never mind. It is recommendation related, and so I'm going to make my cv-pls official.
 
user17242583
@Dharman How fun and funny to see you sending that message! :)
 

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