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12:00 AM
ty
 
Sometimes I can't help myself...
 
...it's what you're paid to do!
 
Nah, I'm paid to handle flags, not .
4
But I am willing to freelance
 
12:42 AM
This may not be the correct reason to close -- please check. Regardless, the question is not likely going to help anyone else, just the OP.
 
"Too broad" is reasonable; that's just a "please explain how this code works" question, but even less useful.
I sometimes wish there was a way to make "please explain how this code works" questions work for Stack Overflow, because their answers can be very useful.
But this is definitely a case study in how not to do it.
 
@CodyGray: thank you for your input.
 
@JohnDvorak For the question Hovercraft linked? Not really...
 
 
1 hour later…
1:55 AM
Does this answer seem NAA?
 
 
3 hours later…
5:37 AM
@Machavity looks good! Now to phrase the custom close reason such that people know in 400 characters that A) there might be on-topic SEO questions, but their's is certainly not, and B), that they should head over to webmasters. Finish off with a nice link to the meta and you're set to go I'd say
 
 
1 hour later…
7:35 AM
This question has 4 reopen votes, and has been discussed on Meta. I am not sure it should be opened, but it is sufficiently edge-case that someone here might be interested: stackoverflow.com/questions/55555349/…
Some poor fella on Meta is getting puce-face angry about it, so perhaps someone will relieve him of his pending heart-failure :-(
(Morning all)
 
Let's just close it again if it reopens. The answer stating it should be closed has a lot of upvotes, and the reopen system doesn't scale well to lots of attention. If a question has over 100 views after closing and 1 in 20 think it should get reopened, it gets reopened.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:26 AM
o/
 
10:06 AM
if a question's solution is something like add a name attribute to the element, does that count as a can't be reproduced/typo issue? It's not a direct thing under that, but questions like that always confuse me when closing
 
@treyBake could be; read the rest of that closure reason: "Whilst similar questions might be on-topic, this one was resolved in a manner unlikely to help future readers" <- that part usually applies
 
@Adriaan ahh ok, I guess that makes sense! Thanks :)
 
@treyBake not sure that is an accepted close reason. You would need to specify what is the reason it doesnt help. Is it Typo?
 
@SurajRao well, missing a name attr on the element, so not quite a typo but similar ground
 
@SurajRao it's in the No Repro/typo description, see my comment up here
 
10:22 AM
@Adriaan agreed.. Was refering to cv request reason here
 
@SurajRao The prescribed close reasons are perfectly acceptable cv-pls reasons
 
 
1 hour later…
11:45 AM
@SurajRao @Makyen another with the name doubled
 
12:23 PM
Morning
 
 
1 hour later…
1:57 PM
@Machavity if your canned message could use improvement, the one used here is downright bad IMO
 
@Adriaan Yeah, I just haven't had a chance to fiddle with it
 
Based on those survey results, I've come to the conclusion that PHP is the Brexit of programming languages. It has so much hate and love either side xD
 
I'm surprised that only 21M out of 50M total visitors are either professionally coding or a student. That implies 60% of the site's visitors are here just for fun, or for their hobby project... seems a bit high to me
Although on the other side every teen kid nowadays is asking rubbish in the Android tag for their first app...
 
@Adriaan I totally buy that
I think the gap will only grow in the current direction: more toward people who aren't professional programmers
 
@TylerH but programming in their job then? That's how I'd classify myself at least; academic researcher/scientist who happens to have to write a line of code every now and then
 
2:10 PM
@Adriaan Not sure about programming as part of your job (e.g. researchers/scientists who work in R or Python or other similar language for data stuff)
 
Depends on what proportion of your time working is spent doing that and how you label yourself, I guess
I mean you could have a very data-heavy paper you're working on where you spend the lion's share of your time writing code to analyze or graph your data, but you are a "biologist" or a "geologist" or something and not a "programmer"
also keep in mind that only 90k people took the survey, so we can't say for sure about the split between the 50M visitors being "professionally coding" or not; it's just SO's "estimate"
 
2:32 PM
as somebody with no experience at all in the current JS frameworks, I'm interested to see that React.js is both more loved and less dreaded than Angular
(my impression was that angular is the current hot thing)
very strong showing for .NET Core
 
"This is especially notable in countries like France and Germany, which are the 4th and 7th largest economies in the world, respectively." should be 7th and 4th right? As in: Germany is bigger, innit?
 
@Adriaan Yep
 
@Adriaan Yes, although I instead would say "Germany and France, which are the 4th and 7th...", i.e., switch the names round rather than the numbers
 
@NickA sure, but I was just wondering whether SE had made a mistake in this sentence. Is there a contact-link or similar?
 
I find the voting history for this answer of mine interesting. It proposes a solution in C# 7 which was somewhat new at the time, and barely attracted any attention. Now I'm earning quite nicely from it.
@Adriaan Contact us
 
2:45 PM
@StephenKennedy sure, but none specifically for reactions on the developer results? Even a meta-post would be better in that case. meta post found
 
@Adriaan Meta is similar? :)
 
I answered the question "Is there a contact-link or similar?". Now please accept and upvote my answer. Thanks in advanced!
 
@NickA yea, found the official announcement. Made a comment there, as I don't think it is a big enough problem to make a full answer
Whoa, basically any average programmer in any language earns >$100k/year in the US? That's somewhere around 2,5 times average wage (across all jobs) for the Netherlands.
 
@Adriaan that's not really true
most programmers earn half that, I would imagine
 
That caught my eye too. I imagine @Machavity drives a Bentley?
 
2:51 PM
if there are numbers showing at 6 figures, I'm sure those are heavily skewed toward metropolitan areas like big cities
 
@TylerH yea, but this claims it is the average of SO respondents, suggesting that highly-paid programmers answered the survey much more often
 
@StephenKennedy Savage. I drive a Ferrarri. Hot wheels doesn't make Bentleys anyways
 
I live in a low cost-of-living area in a low cost-of-living state, and a dev here w/ 10+ years of experience at a level 2 position (where 1 is entry and 3 is senior) would earn around 70-80k, roughly
@Adriaan yeah, I think the numbers would be much better if contrasted with, say, numbers from glassdoor.com or something
SO survey respondents are probably the kind of people who are SO regulars, that is to say, a slight cut above the rest
Even if you're no good otherwise, constantly being around people who are quality/in an environment that promotes quality will have a residual effect
 
@TylerH I already made a comment on meta suggesting that at the very least the global figures should be corrected for average income of the respondent's country; since e.g. here in Switzerland average income is way above that of e.g. India and Eastern Europe
 
above average is certainly how SO survey respondents see themselves, with 66.6% of respondents saying they are above average.
 
2:56 PM
@TylerH students thought should earn barely anything, and junior-devs should earn less as well, but those answered less I'd say in this case
 
@Adriaan And yet some Indian devs pointed out on meta that SO Jobs had a number length limit which was too low for some senior programming jobs in rupees - the numbers they quoted were considerably higher than what I earn when converted to GBP
 
Which points a light at the glaring issue of a limited result set, because otherwise we know many of them are overestimating their value compared to a statistical average
 
@TylerH well, but what is your definition/view of "average"? If you can answer almost any question you see on the front page of your tag, are you "way above average"? That'd explain that result, since most questions are closed (as evidenced by this room)
 
@Machavity Sad I know, but I have a toy car in my display cabinet/bookshelf and the real thing in the same colour parked in the drive :) (most definitely not a Ferrari)
 
@Adriaan my definition/view of average is the textbook one - middle of the road
or do you mean how do I test it
in which case that's a good question
 
3:02 PM
@TylerH I meant the general "you" as in: "How did a respondent test this"
and I was just musing about a possibility, asking more of a rhetorical question
@SmokeDetector yes dear, you can stop mentioning that every time I leave a reply. I know I am not, and do not want to be
3
 
Then don't ping him
 
Honestly I think a lot of people inflated their salary for the survey, even though it's anonymous, I have read about studies where people will often inflate stuff like that even if no one could actually check or care
 
@TylerH I did not inflate my $100k salary... by much
 
I didn't inflate mine, now I feel sad
 
3:17 PM
Interesting that about half the people think the language/framework they have to work with at a company is an important job factor to them. For me that'd be irrelevant, provided I know the language of course
 
Making it irrelevant but relevant?
 
@StephenKennedy well, if I know the language and/or can learn it...
I see what you mean I think; given you don't know java, but do know C++ and C#, you're not likely to apply for a java job
 
^
not the best example perhaps as Java shouldn't be a struggle for anyone who knows C++ and C#, but yes you identified my underlying point
 
I was thinking at first from the stance that you are already working in a certain place, not when considering a new job, hence the bewilderment at first.
 
3:23 PM
Anyone has the link where one can visualize the survey results? I remember they used something from google, but I don't know how it's called and my fu is weak.
 
Ron
o/
 
o/
 
oOOo /
 
\{ooOOOoo}
 
3:29 PM
o/
 
@double-beep What kind of head is that?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier eye count doesn't match.
 
yeah, only realized after...
maybe it's a... MUTANT SPIDER
 
None have seven eyes, except Muffet, but she's not technically actually a spider - and then the eye shape doesn't match :P
 
3:32 PM
🕷 <- I can't see any eyes
 
I know of no spider species that has all eight eyes in a row
Jumping spiders have them roughly in plane, but they go all around the head and aren't visible from one side.
 
according to wiki, it seems to be 6 o.O
 
@treyBake What does?, it says there are with fewer, but I think it's clear the most common is 8
 
@JohnDvorak 😱?
 
The third pair of jumping spiders is reduced in size, but it's still there
 
3:35 PM
@NickA you know it's late in the day when you count 4 pairs as 6
 
2 pairs of 2 and 2 pairs of 1?
nope, that doesn't make sense either
good thing im going home soon
 
yeah me too xD
 
The list of six-eyed spider species fits in a single Wikipedia page
Curiously, some cellar spiders are among them
Some spiders are actually without eyes entirely
 
@JohnDvorak The List of law clerks of the Supreme Court of the United States used to (2500ish), so that doesn't mean much lol
 
3:50 PM
@NickA How on earth did you know that?
 
@StephenKennedy >.> I have friends on the internet, their name starts with g and ends with e and isn't George
 
Gary Oggle?
 
@NickA That poses more questions than it answers. You were interested in knowing about law clerks of the Supreme Court of the United States and if so, in the name of all that is holy, why?! Or, you have some special google foo which allows you to find Wikipedia pages that were historically long; in that case please would you share your knowledge, master?
 
@StephenKennedy I searched for "largest wikipedia article", it came up with this quora question, which linked to that article, then I went into the history and noticed a revision which added 650k characters (a rollback of creating the gateway that it is now) and opened that one :)
 
@NickA That's disappointing. I was hoping to hear why you have a fascination with law clerks of the Supreme Court of the United States :(
 
3:58 PM
@StephenKennedy My knowledge of the American legal system is..... limited at best
 
@Adriaan I'm confused why "salary" doesn't show up as a reason there
As I recall it was one of the options for things that depend on whether you take a specific job
 
@NickA No problem, we don't need experts
 
and it's pretty high up there for me, personally
 
@StephenKennedy Alternatively, there's a wikipedia page which lists the long wikipedia pages (although not historically): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:LongPages
 
4:01 PM
so meta
 
@NickA I had my pitchfork ready as that shouldn't be a subject for a Wikipedia article, but it's in the Special:namespace so that's ok :) (and it means the page is programatically generated)
 
List of humorous units of measurement is one of my favourites
2
@StephenKennedy haha yes, nobody actively maintains it ^^
 
@JohnDvorak Pitchfork engaged, but I see it's been nominated for deletion 5 times already and kept each time :/
 
Keep it please
 
Yeah, just got to the salaries section. US Academic researchers make 95k a year on average? Yeah right. They make half that. That figure is maybe accurate as a median for people at the end of their career, even in hard sciences
 
4:05 PM
I have the power to delete it. I'd probably lose that power soon after exercising it. So worry ye not it can stay :)
 
4:19 PM
Looks like there's enough topics for a room meeting now (although at least one of them ought to be despatchable in a few seconds)
Where's the repo with RO nominations or is it a figment of my imagination?
 
I'm a bit new to this, and I've been trying to clean up a few questions on a topic that had me running around in circles for a bit, and there's a question (stackoverflow.com/q/32544468/1836940) that a) has no good answers, b) is a duplicate and c) I've flagged as a duplicate of probably the wrong other question. What action should I take? (Close vote), (retract dupe vote and leave new comment), or (have somebody here flag it as a dupe of stackoverflow.com/q/2308087/1836940)?
 
@DanielCausebrook We have at least one gold badge holder but I'm not sure if they're around atm. Is there a PHP room in which you could enquire?
(I mention gold tag badge holders as they can mark duplicates unilaterally)
 
@DanielCausebrook It hasn't been touched in two years, so a CV request wouldn't be appreciated
 
Okay, I'll have a look for a php room. I just didn't know if it was worth bothering anyone really.
Hmm maybe I'll just leave a comment then. I do agree it's a bit silly to bother someone about it but I did want to learn what to do in future.
Thank you for the advice.
 
@DanielCausebrook I wouldn't know, and as John says we prefer not to deal with older posts here. Definitely look for and ask in a PHP room, if you can't use such a room for guidance on an issue like that then something is wrong imho! :) gl
 
4:29 PM
@StephenKennedy As I recall users post nominations to their own repos and they're linked to a local place. For example: github.com/NathanOliver1/Nomination
 
Seems an odd way to do it
 
I think it's done that way so nominees can have full control over their nomination
without having to be granted temporary/additional privileges in the SOCVR repo
 
@DanielCausebrook If you feel it's a duplicate of a different question, then go ahead and leave a comment in a similar format to what is automatically generated (e.g. "Possible duplicate of [title w/ link]", or "Better duplicate: [title w/ link]". I wouldn't retract your flag, as you still feel it should be closed. Anyone who sees the question should be able to get the alternate duplicate target from the comment.
What people were meaning wrt. CV request is an actual request. A large part of what's done in this room is post and act on various requests, of which cv-pls is the most common. However, we just don't have the capability to handle the huge number of questions that should be closed, so we concentrate on questions which have recent activity (and some other criteria). For more information, please see our FAQ.
 
@Mayken I'm sorry for using up your time then, I read the FAQ and thought I would ask more as a "coaching" request so I know what to do next time. Thanks!
 
@Zoe the answer seems to suggest it's not - and it could be quite useful
@DanielCausebrook Your question was perfectly fine. Don't worry about asking.
I suppose a "any PHP hammer here? [link]" question would also go.
 
Zoe
4:45 PM
"Hints on where to start" is still awfully broad. Also borderline software recs (read the "borderline" carefully though - the "where do I start" questions usually have a "what software"-subpoint. Rarely enough to qualify it for the software recs close reason though)
 
Fair enough. The answer does seem useful though.
 
@DanielCausebrook Bad timing actually as one of our PHP experts was online earlier but isn't currently :)
 
@StephenKennedy here is the page on socvr.org: socvr.org/room-info/nominations
 
Zoe
It seems to be relatively boilerplate though, found similar code elsewhere (not plagiarism-similar, just boilerplate-similar)
 
@StephenKennedy yes, we noticed. Once all RO's called home we'll set a date ...
3
 
4:50 PM
[status-6-to-8]
 
@rene Given that all 4 have been online today - are you also in charge of Brexit?!
 
yes.
 
You'd better start setting up the refugee camps then. I'll be on my way shortly.
 
We have some space left on Maasvlakte-II. With a bit of luck you can still see the white cliffs ...
 
5:06 PM
@rene Thanks for the food parcels
3
 
you're welcome
 
5:37 PM
@DanielCausebrook I didn't mean to imply you were wasting our time. I was intending to indicate the opposite. I was concerned from the tone of the responses which you were getting that you might feel your question wasn't appreciated here. I belated realize that my second message should have been more clear that I was talking about actual requests when I mentioned that we concentrate on questions which have recent activity. We welcome questions about moderation. Your question was just fine.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression your question wasn't welcome here.
 
Maybe I should have kept an eye on the oven ... it is smoking dangerously now ..
 
buy SmokeDetector for free then!
 
Yeah, that would be a good investment
assuming I want to keep this kitchen
 
Why would a NAA flag result in a deletion within 30 seconds?
 
Why would a NAA flag result in a deletion within 2 seconds?
 
5:52 PM
@double-beep 2 seconds?
 
yup
 
My PB is 1.
 
ninja'd with mod deletion i.stack.imgur.com/Ebyim.png
 
Though I was lucky, the flag came in just as I was about to delete the post. :)
 
Ah, the mod queue got empty and you got bored?
 
5:55 PM
Yup. Fortunately, the CVQ always has something left for me.
 
Moderators don't run out of close votes, do they?
 
@BaummitAugen Have you done more than 40 reviews just to show off on the leader board yet?
 
@NathanOliver yes
 
LOL
nice
 
5:57 PM
@AndrewMyers No, the counter stays stuck on 50.
 
Zoe
waffles
 
6:56 PM
@double-beep Two can play at that game :-P i.stack.imgur.com/6EqA6.png cc @BaummitAugen
 
@TylerH cheater :P
 
cheats. cheats everywhere, I tells ya!
 
what happen
 
7:13 PM
I fail at humor, apparently, is what happen
 
TL;DR: Moderators are cheaters, TylerH is a poser.
 
???
PS I dunno if I informed chat but I got into business school (=w=)
 
@Compass Congratulations!
 
@Compass Woot. Congrats
 
7:35 PM
@Compass Congratulations!
what level degree? (e.g associates/bachelors/masters/phd)
 
Masters
a second one to go with my computer science =w=
 
8:26 PM
Spicy food is the best.
Let us all enjoy the spiciness of mild to MUTILATING
 
@Compass If it is too spicy you even get nice hallucination to accompany the burn: shortlist.com/home/…
 
How frustrating, people deleting their question within a minute of my downvote, at which point I haven't even completed writing my comment explaining them why I did that
 
you're policing the community :O
 
@Adriaan It's a feature. You're not supposed to explain down votes ;)
5
 
9:00 PM
@eyllanesc When you want to retract a , you can ask a roomowner to remove it.
 
9:12 PM
@BaummitAugen How do I ask for it exactly? I have raised a flag but I do not know if that is the right way
 
@eyllanesc Link to the CV and ping a RO. It's that easy
 
@eyllanesc It is not, IMO. At least I do not fancy the idea to start policing this already well organized room.
 
@Machavity Could you show me an example please, I do not understand
 
Yeah, what @Machavity said.
 
@eyllanesc Do you know how to link the transcript?
 
9:16 PM
Here is an example:
oh no, this must be removed.
Can an RO remove my previous request @ro_name_you_want_to_use
 
@NathanOliver Okay, I understand. And who are the RO?
 
@eyllanesc Listed here in the room info
 
@eyllanesc They are listed on the bottom left here
You'll also notice them in the room by the italic font they use for RO names.
 
@Machavity , @NathanOliver thanks
 
no problem
 
9:20 PM
Can an RO remove my previous request @NathanOliver
 
You got it
 
@eyllanesc Done
 
Always ping an RO. Otherwise, it might get lost
 
Sorry for the inconvenience, something is learned every day and with good teachers is easier
2
 
that was a beautiful exchange
4
 
9:22 PM
\o/
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Death of a CV: a four part play about how SOCVR requests are binned
7
 
awwww :P
laters o/
 
o/
 
\o
@Machavity Been reading Arthur Miller lately?
 
9:38 PM
Hmm looks like they stopped us from tracking non-existent badges. Right when I was about to track the badge...
 
so a bug that ppl were having harmless fun with can be fixed immediately, but changing a tooltip in a review queue takes years...
2
 
IKR
 
They almost have to fix it though. Otherwise people would think the site is hackable (which it is so it is silly excuse)
But I agree. They don't put a lot of dev time into real simple and easy improvements which is sad
 
10:01 PM
C#/ASP.NET folks - if I ask a question about using the CS Object Model in an ASP.NET web form to upload files to a SharePoint document library, should that question include the tag?
I wasn't going to include it but the system suggested it (likely because I'm using <!-- language: lang-c# --> for syntax highlighting and now I have an existential crisis
 
lol
 
Weird, unoneboxing was adding a space before the ":message_id"
 
@TylerH Yes, if the code in the question is C# and/or you expect an answer in C#, tag it as such. The question doesn't have to be about the language (in contrast to, say, the Visual Studio tag where just using VS is not enough)
 
Hmm, after looking, only 3 questions include and
Ah well, it's no big deal if it is not appropriate, it can easily/quickly be removed
 
10:07 PM
if you want a downvote opinion based on the actual question, ping me when it is up
 
@StephenKennedy the question is up
 
@TylerH Legit tag afaic
 
\o/
now to go home and monitor it obsessively from there
 
how long is the commute?
well anyway, with luck you'll have an answer by the time you get home \o
 
10:56 PM
How are troll accounts reported?
 
... You ask about it in chat ... and suddenly it'll be handled...
 
I read the title of the question and acted too fast, so I retracted the close-vote pls post. As to the user; stackoverflow.com/users/11337218/omar-ali This is the troll account
Admittedly, I panicked, but now I know how to do it properly so I won't make the same mistake twice.
 
@BhargavRao ssshh, don't reveal the secret strategy
 
@Daedalus the proper way is to flag the user's post and mention as to why you think it is a troll. But the best way is to just downvote and close, in that way the system bans will kick in automatically without mod involvement.
anyway, I'll try to catch some sleep. Cya \o ...
 
@BhargavRao For moderator attention, or a spam flag? The post doesn't exist to promote a product or service so I retracted that one. Also, the post was deleted by moderation before I could properly flag it. Though I realize I should have properly flagged it the first time.
 
11:03 PM
for moderator attention..
But as I said, just ask for cv-pls here... and get it closed. That works out faster in many ways. If you see that the person is doing the same again (either from the same account or a different account), then flag.
 
Alright
 
11:29 PM
A clever user read my duplicate comment on Correct query to update a SQL database row and plagiarized one of the answers from the dupe target (by Botellita Taponzito).
 
If it's an actual troll account, a rude/abusive flag is fine. But then we get into what is the definition of "troll".
If it's "someone who asks bad questions", then that's not a troll. Just handle the questions as you normally would, by downvoting and close-voting. The system will handle the rest.
 
11:47 PM
@Makyen Ah, thanks for the clarification. Don't worry about it, I was just being cautious because you guys do a lot for the site and I'm new to it. Your explanation was useful, and maybe when I have more and free time and experience I'll be able to join in the efforts more.
 
Sometimes, when you ask questions about moderation, you even get an answer from a real live moderator. :-)
 
11:58 PM
You know, when I was at school I used Stack Overflow as my example to win an English class debate against anonymity leading to loss of morality on the internet. I feel like this system and the people who make it work often don't get enough credit. Ah well, such is life. You all have my thanks, anyway.
4
 
It's an interesting case. Plenty of our users are semi-anonymous, in that they don't use their real name, yet they still behave with the utmost professionalism.
 

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