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12:04 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
1:32 AM
@SotiriosDelimanolis: I commented to you in a way so that the OP can see the comment ;)
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yeah lol
 
 
2 hours later…
4:34 AM
Hi. This is my first time in the chats. This question in `airflow` is a valid question and should not be closed. Can anyone take a look once?
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57036756/what-is-the-usage-of-dummyoperator-in-airflow/57039312#57039312
 
5:04 AM
 
@BlindNinja help how, you already have an accepted answer?
... and unaccepting it is probably not going to get you more answers stating different opinions
@nightgaunt ^
 
Eh, "what are the examples of" is unfocused...
 
yeah, but it can be fixed
 
Fix was enough to tip me over. I can see how the question could be useful.
 
@tripleee I updated my question
 
5:14 AM
@tripleee @JohnDvorak Thanks
 
@BlindNinja heaping on additional questions is not a good idea; just put back the accept and ask a new question
 
its part of discussion.
 
Stack Overflow is a question and answer site, not a discussion site.
For discussions, there is chat.
 
though I haven't got full answer and comments of a Mod changed whole scenario.
that is on meta site with discussion tag :/
 
one question per question is still true; you are just making it harder to answer, and for yourself to accept something as actually answering your question
 
5:19 AM
so for the question you just edited Should I ask new question ?
 
that would make more sense, yes
 
hold on, I am on it :D
 
but in short, for XCode there is Ask Different and for Android Studio there's Super User and (if you are not a Windows victim) Unix & Linux or (if you are an Ubuntu victim) Ask Ubuntu
like Rene's answer already mentions
there's an Android site as well which might make sense for Android Studio too
I would say this is borderline though, the guidance that you can ask about tools which are specific to software development is problematic
but if you are not going to debug Android Studio this is not materially different from "why does Excel crash on me"
 
5:40 AM
I get it, I am very new to Android Studio, debugging code in it is doable but Debugging whole Android Studio is completely different. But still I think Its very confusing
it should be very straight forward, I have been on SE from a long time now, If I got confused, what we expect from a new user?
If I have code related issue ask on SO but If its related to the tool I am using, I can't ask here. I though SO is one stop place where I can ask my question related to software development and tools. I have seen many question (trust me I wish I would have got the repo those question got) asking just "where to download x or y tool?"
If they are on SO why a question related to the tool should not be on there ?
 
this particular room is all about removing stuff which should not be there on the site but we generally ignore old content unless it resurfaces because someone edited it etc, just because we can never finish and need to focus on the content which demonstrably requires our attention
by all means feel free to close vote questions about where to download something
once you have enough rep
 
it's locked for a reason, and like I said, we have decided as a room to focus on recently active content; it's not hard to find additional examples but that's tangential to this discussion anyway. If you find that the actual rules are hard to understand, that's something we can try to help you with
 
yeah and it cost me my hard earned repo, seriously 7 down votes :/
I never got 7 down votes overall before asking this question
 
 
2 hours later…
 
8:53 AM
@Adriaan Just notice teams help page is broken for me . Any one conform this. It's redirect to stackoverflow.help but page is not found.
 
@Shree broken how? Seems OK to me (never visited it before though)
 
Go to page and click on red banner. "Looking for help with Stack Overflow for Teams? Click here »"
 
@Shree it indeed redirects to the normal help page for me. Whether that's due to a bug or due to me not being in a team I wouldn't know
 
Or its A/B testing and banner only seen by me not sure :)
 
@Shree works for me
 
9:09 AM
@rene humm. Ok. I still get page not found. May be some thing problem in my side. Thanks .
 
@Shree also these 3rd party ping sites seem to say everything is ok: downforeveryoneorjustme.com/stackoverflow.help
 
 
1 hour later…
10:20 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
11:23 AM
 
11:50 AM
 
12:25 PM
 
12:44 PM
^ Previously submitted before the 3 vote limit
was 4 but I thought that retracting my vote would have triggered it to close since it would technically still satisfy the limit
 
1:10 PM
@Nkosi these are strange times (-:
but not quite that strange
 
o/
 
1:42 PM
Never ceases to amaze me that robo-reviewers still approve spam edits (mod flagged)
 
grabs pitchfork
 
1:57 PM
Just came across a question where all 3 answers were plagiarized completely or in part.
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica lovely title
 
is this flag farming?
Did I discover a Hack?!
 
2:13 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis I would mod flag each with a link to the source material. Several mods are active in nuking such activity
 
@Machavity Oh yeah, that's all done!
 
Plop morning folks
 
'fternoon
@Kyll where did I throw you to last, that it is morning where you're at?
 
@Adriaan I guess it must've been the head trauma making me sleepy
 
@Machavity on webapps.se ... that is the site where you can ask a question when Facebook is down? Also: asked 3 months ago, kind of before recent events.
 
@Machavity That's from August, so it's not reflective of the most recent issues. Who knows what it would look like now. Not being able to find enough mod candidates on smaller sites isn't all that unusual. There have been quite a few where there have not been enough people interested and the time-frame was extended, the election was cancelled, or moderators just appointed.
ninja'd....again. :-)
 
Ah, I missed the Aug thing. Shog9 linked it in the 3-vote Meta
 
@Makyen yes, but you have more text, again ...
 
@rene True. I guess it's something of a trade-off. :-)
 
3:41 PM
In the momentum equation, velocity is given the same significance as mass. To be an effective answer, both speed-of-response and length-of-response are equally as important :)
 
I also thought it was more recent based on this Space.SE Meta
 
I vote for FP ^
 
I'd agree
 
OK, so now we can go back to lobbying for 200 close votes a day.
 
4:34 PM
And good morning all ... /o
 
Good morning o/
 
\o
 
Okay, dinner ...
 
It's almost midnight snack time
 
4:45 PM
o/
 
heh ... time for a second coffee ;D
 
Maybe I missed that conversation, but does the new three votes only policy changes how / when / the circumstances under which we're expected to post cv-pls links? Should it?
A quick first thought, is that since it's much easier to close a question, the impact of posting those might be greatly expanded.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Based on conversations yesterday, no changes to room policy yet, until we see how it stabalizes.
 
I see, thank you :)
Would you by chance be able to link me to a message in that general conversation?
Ah, think I can see a thread from Chipster's message.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Not a bad idea to suggest it as a room meeting topic
Sorry, wrong link there. Fixed
 
4:56 PM
Heh :p was reading the Queen issue with... much astonishment
doing that right now
 
@Machavity 2 more topics and we have an agenda that is at its capacity
 
 
1 hour later…
8:34 PM
Regarding the close vote threshold and its interaction with SOCVR, it may make sense to advise folks to wait before posting cv-pls requests, the expectation being that a consensus will be reached more easily naturally. That’s better for everyone. Closures only need to go through this room when they’re not getting actioned through normal means.
We’ll kinda have to wait and see how effective this is in the real world, and my thoughts on it aren’t fully formed, but it’s what my gut tells me. Would also address persistent concerns about a cabal of the same close voters over and over. Nothing against any of you guys, but to the extent possible, I’d prefer to have subject matter experts as the close voters.
 
wait ... for 6 to 8 ...
 
@Makyen and the other maintainers will, I suppose, need to change the userscripts that generate these cv-pls requests to match the new, less-descriptive close vote reasons, which have now been rolled out for good on SO, and will shortly be rolling out network-wide.
I still wish we could tweak the new descriptions more, but the team isn’t very amenable to that.
 
@CodyGray true, but maybe the site isn't doing a great job at on-boarding those that reach the close vote privilege.
that could bring in more / new close voters
 
I still have some gripes with the new descriptions myself, but it should (theoretically) improve the process overall
 
@rene Very possible. My sources tell me that work is in progress on features that will better alert and educate users of their privileges as they gain them. May help. Of course, it won’t fix the reality that plenty of users just aren’t interested in moderation/curation tasks.
@Machavity Yes, for sure. The boxes being yellow and at the bottom of the questions was our problem all along. Now that they’re blue and at the top, things will be much more clear.
 
8:41 PM
@CodyGray Oddly enough, volume seemed to go down in the previous trial. I burned less CVs in here because stuff was closed quicker
 
That isn’t odd...
3 < 5
(Plot twist: both are odd)
Hmm. Anyone else notice that the responsive Q&A design suddenly broke? Post text is now too large, and off my screen. I can’t zoom out enough to make it fit anymore. Worked fine like 15 min ago...
 
seem still to work for me
 
I tried toggling to mobile and then back to full site, and also toggling responsiveness off and then back on again. Still doesn’t work. Very hard to read posts now on my iPwn.
 
Can reproduce, it's weird on my phone
 
works in IE6 on WindowsMe
 
8:50 PM
It seems that on page load the menu is briefly visible before some redraw happen and everything gets shoved far, far to the right
I blame the user cards with links on the bottom of posts, they're the largest thing that stretches the viewport
 
I’m not seeing any menu being visible. What I see is the post div not being properly constrained to the viewport.
Could be the user card, but that’s more likely a symptom rather than the root cause
 
indeed
maybe someone put a * {display: inline-block !important;} somewhere while fixing something else :P
 
@rene I’m on mobile right now. When I get back to office, I’ll check Netscape on Win 95. I recently got OSR2 and FAT32 support, so I hope that doesn’t break anything.
 
nice flex guys
 
@rene Ew, Windows ME. I think I'd prefer Vista over that
 
8:57 PM
@Das_Geek Of course. Have you ever tried to use a debugger in Win 9x? NT is so much better, Vista or not.
 
@CodyGray I have not. Wasn't old enough to do that sort of thing at the time. I was young enough to think as long as the game said "Compatible with Windows ME" on the box, my computer could run it without any extra help
DX8 and DX9 troubleshooting was paaaaaiiiinful
 
This was my first computer that I started playing around with.
Watching Windows go from 3.1 to 10 has been an interesting journey.
 
@Das_Geek Really? Don’t recall that being particularly arduous. I was never much of a gamer, but I did work as a computer tech during that period.
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica No way you ran Windows 3.1 on that little model 5155...
@ekad Sigh. Closed, with the asker having no clue of why...
 
9:13 PM
@CodyGray Yeah I was too young to be really adept at anything, so maybe my memories of those were colored by my relative inability. It also helped that I didn't have an internet connection to the machine, and upgrading individual packages via flash-drive-transported installers wasn't exactly fun
 
@CodyGray Is it just me, or is that layout broken on half screen? imgur.com/Bh9yt81
 
Apropos my earlier gripe about content overflowing the viewport, it’s been reported on MSE (cc @FélixGagnon-Grenier)
 
Oh, apparently not.
 
Yeah, looks like it’s not just mobile that’s broken. Everything is broken.
@Das_Geek Back in those days, updates weren’t released every couple of days, so it was much more manageable to have a floppy or CD of installers. I never remember having to do much more than run the DirectX installers. Assuming that the drivers for the video and/or sound cards were installed, which...was a bigger problem back in the day. Hunting drivers was a royal PITA.
 
@CodyGray Agreed
 
9:32 PM
@CodyGray No, not on that. IIRC it was MSDOS 4.0. Win 3.1 was just the first version of Windows I ever used.
 
@SecretAgentMan That question is off-topic for an entirely different reason: it contains no repro code in the question itself. It is merely a link to an external resource.
 
@CodyGray Acknowledged & agree. I thought "Typo" and "No Repro" were the same flag in the close interface. Thanks for setting me straight. I seem to learn more SO day by day.
 
@SecretAgentMan Ah, no. They’re different sub-reasons for the “off topic” group. Not a big deal, of course. The important thing is to get the question closed.
 
9:47 PM
css just coughed up a lung with SE Dark Mode
 
@CodyGray By "sub-reasons", I'm presuming you mean they are the same selection (bullet) in the menu (screenshot). I understand I need to be more precise. Pardon my lack of red free-hand 'circle' for the image.
 
It’s not related to the dark mode script, @Nkosi. SE deployed buggy CSS.
 
phew,,,
ok carry on. nothing to see here.
:)
 
SO pushed buggy code to live? That never happens.. ;)
5
 
@SecretAgentMan Different reasons, different radio buttons. Option #4 for for no repro code in the question itself, option #5 for a typo question whose answer will not be helpful to others in the future.
@connectyourcharger That’s not odd, either. The dev team obviously just deployed an update to their CSS, which contained a bug. I know, it sounds weird, because if you’re like me, you don’t test in production. But, different strokes for different folks. — Cody Gray 8 mins ago
...and looks to be fixed now!
 
9:52 PM
@CodyGray Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
 
Does it mean that "no repro"="no MCVE"?
 
@Dharman I probably screwed that up. I think it's "seeking debugging help but needs more info".
 
@SecretAgentMan That’s also no MCVE, reason #4 under “off topic”. You could close as “unclear”, but that’s less descriptive, in my opinion. “Gimme teh codez” is not a close reason. Many on-topic questions ask for code.
@Dharman No
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica We'll test it in production.
 
@CodyGray Understood. TY
 
9:55 PM
@CodyGray It is certainly not fixed for me yet
 
@SecretAgentMan I am not a room owner, but I get a feeling that there was a rule against user targeting.
 
@Dharman Yeah, I was a bit concerned about that too. I stumbled across these by accident and was trying to edit them to be helpful.
Further examination made me realize there were some issues that warranted flagging based on guidelines. Consider this the disclosure: I'm fine with leaving them open if that's preferred. I certainly understand that could be a concern.
 
10:14 PM
 
user10957435
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Neat. I only got to watch Windows 95-10. The most interesting thing has been realizing that no one at Microsoft knows how to count. 😉
 
@Chipster I've heard the reason for that was that enough legacy code had checks for "Win 98 or 95" by testing if the version starts with a 9.
 
@SecretAgentMan Please don't post requests about more than one post by the same user within a moderately short period of time (generally 24 hours, but not explicitly defined). Doing so can be considered user-targeting, or at least appear to be user-targeting, even when unintentional. Please see #20 in the FAQ for more information.
However, in this case, it appears that you were intentionally targeting the user. Don't do that.
In addition, please don't post a message saying that an identified user has multiple off-topic questions. That is effectively asking people to target the user.
 
Might be an urban legend though.
 
@BaummitAugen That cannot possibly be the reason. Windows 95 and 98 reported a major version number of “4”. Nowhere was a version reported starting with “9”.
 
10:23 PM
@CodyGray And thus the disclaimer. ;)
Never had to check for a Windows version myself.
 
However, it’s true that version number checks are often done wrong by Windows programs. There were major issues when going from 3.x to 95. So much so that for compatibility, 95 would report a version of 3.95, instead of 4.0.
@SecretAgentMan If you identify a systemic problem with a user’s questions, raising a custom moderator flag on one of the questions is preferred. Those are confidential, and avoids the perception of publicly targeting the user.
4
Be sure to mention that the problem is systemic, linking to a couple of examples. You can also mention that you’re knowingly raising a mod flag to avoid targeting.
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen I've heard that too. And I get it. I just think MS should have been more consistent with their numbering, and then there wouldn't be that problem (also, if people didn't do things like that in code, that would also help, but I recon I'm preaching to the choir...)
 
This works in general for users with a large number of recent, low-quality questions. We can reach out to them and offer guidance, preferably before they’re automatically blocked from asking.
 
Me too far gone for review Qs … but curiosity-mode is biting! Q: Are mods subject to "audits" in review queues?
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Yes. Mods get audits in /review. But we don’t often use it, and the mod flag queue is not part of /review.
 
10:29 PM
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica In the standard queues, yes.
In the flag queue, no.
 
... And what happens if you fail "too may" - are you defrocked?
 
Dunno, never been banned.
I suppose we could just unban ourselves.
 
Possible experiment?
 
@Chipster Many of the problems arise from having internal version numbers that differ from what the marketing department wants to use. Windows 7 was, for example, version 6.2. The other problem is, of course, dumb programmers who can’t figure out how to test a version number. It’s not the correct approach anyway: you should be testing for feature support, not a version.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray so we're back to people should be better programmers, and stuff like that wouldn't happen...
 
10:32 PM
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica No, you’re just temporarily banned from review, like anyone else. But with moderator powers, you can unban yourself. Some of the mods have been review banned more than once.
 
@CodyGray OK! So you're still human ... time for some COFFFEEE.
 
There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[web] [web-applications] [mysqli]" This is really nice to see.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray that system seems sort of broken. Why not just not ban your own moderators? I guess that would require more code on SE's end?
 
user10957435
@Dharman which queue is that in?
 
@Chipster Close vote Q
 
user10957435
10:35 PM
@Dharman wow. That must be a first.
 
M--
@Dharman Thanks to 3 CV threshold! ^__^
 
@Chipster Eh, the real bug is probably bothering to subject moderators to automated bans. But, easier to code that way, with less special cases.
@Chipster Fun fact: it’s now almost impossible to correctly check Windows version numbers, as all the documented APIs and other undocumented approaches will lie to you for backwards compatibility reasons. Thus proving that bad programmers are why we cannot have nice things.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Sigh... Don't you just love Microsoft...
 
At least you can still upgrade windows 7 or 8.1 to 10 for free.
 
Sigh... I think I found another bug with the close banners. Can someone confirm? stackoverflow.com/q/20906889/1839439
 
10:44 PM
@Dharman I see 2 edit links
 
@CodyGray That reminds me of the whole rigamarole of HTTP user agents. Back in the 1990's, servers running Netscape web server software were set up to give you a less rich experience if your browser wasn't Netscape, even if it could handle the complex stuff. Microsoft thus made its browser identify itself as Mozilla, with a parenthetical note that it was only "compatible" with it. This was enough to trick Netscape servers into thinking that IE was Netscape without truly lying.
 
I can confirm (but I'm seeing double quite a llloott)!
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Really? I thought that free update program had expired.
 
user10957435
^^ Same
 
user10957435
I thought that was over already.
 
10:46 PM
Because of that, user agent strings are now a mess of parser bait and other historical garbage.
 
It "expired". Stores weren't happy with the decision of the free upgrades because people were bringing their PC's into the store so MS said they only had a year. They just never turned that off though so machines can still upgrade for free. We just did that where I work last wee to get a 7 machine to 10.
 
@ColumbiasaysReinstateMonica Yup. History repeats itself over and over. Remember when early versions of Windows used to check to ensure that the DOS version it was running atop was from Microsoft? Version checks are an ugly, ugly hack.
 
Should questions like this be deleted or edited end reopened? stackoverflow.com/q/31937393/1839439
 
user10957435
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Neat. Didn't know that. That's actually really handy to know because 7 is losing support really soon.
 
Yep. 28 days to go
 
10:49 PM
@Dharman Do you think that an edit would make that Q&A valuable to others in the future? In this case, I don't...
 
user10957435
@Dharman How would you suggest editing it? I'm not fully sure I see a good problem statement there.
 
user10957435
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica How easy is it to update? Anything special you have to do?
 
You just update.
 
@CodyGray There were some answers. The problem was I believe related to padding numbers with asterisk to match a certain length
Whether useful to others or not, I am not sure.
 
It asks for the key, you put in your 7 or 8.1 key and your off to the races
 
user10957435
10:52 PM
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Got you. So nothing terribly special. I'll keep it in mind...
 
@Dharman I really have no idea. I can come up with at least 3 different seemingly-valid interpretations of that question. If one wanted to rescue it, they could just pick one and edit it accordingly, but I really don't think any of those answers are worth keeping around. They aren't going to be useful to others in the future.
 
as always do a backup if there is anything important you don't want to lose
 
@Dharman "How can I pad a number with asterisks?" would be a valid question. Which probably has been asked.
 
user10957435
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Of course.
 
Or, more general, pad a number with some character of choice.
 
10:53 PM
Fair enough, good points.
 
This is, by the way, a very good case study in why closure needs to happen sooner, rather than later. If that question was clarified to any of the valid interpretations before it was answered, then you wouldn't have the problem of a bunch of answers with random guesses about what was being asked.
6
 
11:15 PM
@Makyen Thank you. I had reread the FAQ since I clearly had forgotten some of the guidance. I apologize for this. I was honestly just trying to help but I understand how it could be perceived. I was unsure how to proceed and tried to do the best I knew how in the moment.
@CodyGray Thanks. I wasn't sure if that was worthy of bothering a mod. I definitely see how it is the best approach. I apologize for causing an issue over this. I was acting in good faith. Thanks again.
 
@SecretAgentMan The only time you should be hesitant to bother a mod is when you could solve the problem yourself. For example, don't raise a flag when a question needs to be edited, because you can edit questions yourself. But any time you think something needs moderator intervention, then you should flag. That's why moderators exist.
(Just don't expect your flag to be actioned immediately. We do get a fair number, and it does take us some time to handle them all. That doesn't imply we don't appreciate them.)
 
user10957435
@SecretAgentMan I can't speak for the ROs as I am not one, but it happens to all of us from time to time. Don't worry about it too much. Just don't do it again :D.
 
@SecretAgentMan np. Such things happen from time to time. Thank you for being conscientious about it.
 
11:47 PM
@CodyGray What's the criteria for destroying a user? Had someone make a spam edit (and robo-reviewers approved). Edited, mod flagged and marked helpful, but this user is still around
 

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