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12:21 AM
 
 
3 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
6:56 AM
Apart from that, how to deal with that question. Asker have post multiple answer those actually should be edit to the question. I am thinking about flagging the question for mod attention. Editing out question to merge answers in it is of no much use.
 
@Cœur ^ the question too
 
7:13 AM
@AmitJoshi This message is about the question Why Dicom file does not open?.
@AmitJoshi You can flag each as NAA. Probably some should be edited into the question. You, or anyone with edit privileges, can do so, just be sure to include where it came from in your edit summary (e.g. "Moving OP's content from a non-answer Answer into the question"). Even though it's now several "answers", it's still something that can be handled with normal flags and review queues.
Which and how many should be edited into the question may require someone with SME, but the default would be to move all of them into the question.
 
@Makyen If I am not wrong, all answers contain portion of single stack trace. Not just answers, OP have put some stack trace info in comments as well. It is hard to judge in what sequence those should be read. But anyway, putting all that into a question does not help resolving the issue anyway.
 
then the whole thing should probably be closed and eventually deleted
 
7:31 AM
@AmitJoshi That's quite possible. Someone could probably figure out the order from the time that each was posted. I'm honestly not sufficiently interested in the question to put out the effort, particularly given that I don't have SME. As with tripleee, I expect the answers to be deleted (all have delete votes and/or are in LQP review), and the question is closed, so it will Roomba.
 
My NAA-Flag on this answer got disputed: stackoverflow.com/questions/20613569/… - I'm still sure it's NAA.
 
Plop folks
 
@Selaron That isn't NAA on it's face (i.e. you need some level of subject matter knowledge to make a determination). That would take some explanation. You'd be better off raising a custom mod-flag and explaining that you think it's intended as a comment on another answer.
@Kyll o/
 
7:48 AM
@Makyen Ok thanks. Wasn't sure if a mod flag is too much. "That isn't NAA on it's face" means it's not obvious that this is NAA?
 
@Selaron Yes, my intent was to indicate that it's not obvious that it's NAA if all you read is the answer, particularly if you don't know anything about the question topic. Thus, it's likely that it will be evaluated as "Looks OK", which is what 3 reviewers picked. Therefore, if you want it handled, it's going to need more explanation when it's presented to someone who can handle it.
 
NAA really is for things that couldn't possibly be answers, such as "I had breakfast this morning"
Speaking of which, afk coffee
 
@Selaron You'll probably want to also mention that the line the "answer" is suggesting be changed doesn't exist in the question, but does in two other answers.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:47 AM
@Makyen the flag was considered helpful, thanks again :)
 
10:29 AM
o/
 
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
11:37 AM
More and more I notice that there are people asking questions adding "fake" attempts to cover all the points for a valid question. The latest one I saw is here. A question is asked and then they say: "I tried this: basic_command_like_ls" Is this a consequence of the new question Wizard?
2
 
11:49 AM
@Selaron Thanks
 
@kvantour saw some of those 'fake attempts' too. The quality is similar to "I tried several solotuins from other questions but it still does not work, please help."
 
12:31 PM
@kvantour good speculation, perhaps it's worth bringing up ... only I guess the implementors no longer read meta?
 
1:25 PM
@tripleee Appears to be MRE now
 
@Machavity thanks
 
@tripleee Any objection to binning?
 
@Machavity no, go ahead, thanks
 
1:45 PM
^I know we aren't using "gimme teh codez" type comments in requests anymore, but in that case it's an exact quote from the OP. Is that permitted?
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica We want to avoid it in the transcript. Even if the OP says it, just give a standard "Too Broad" please
 
@Machavity ok, good to know
 
2:12 PM
@JL2210 Please don't suggest a course of action on [review-pls]. Perfectly fine to note it's plagiarized
 
 
1 hour later…
4:21 PM
Too bad I removed the tag first...
 
4:46 PM
@robsiemb This isn't asking for any off-site recommendations; it's asking for how to implement functionality within an application; likewise the answers are not 'spammy'; they're suggesting available APIs and connection gateways that are designed to work with that application (and others)
 
+1 it's too broad - it's closed now as I voted as TB but 4 voted for off-site req.
 
ok, this seems borderline to me, its true, its not a direct request for off site recommendations "give me some pointers", but then its probably too broad, since its more or less asking how to implement a chat system.

I agree the answers are answering the question as asked.
 
well, one of the answerers (after I scroll down) is advertising their own solution, though they explicitly state so
 
Yes, that's the one that drew me to the post, and its "spammy" not spam.
Sorry, I know the term is loaded.
 
suggesting an app/service you've created in a Stack Overflow answer is fine so long as it 1) explicitly mentions your affiliation, 2) is an answer to the question
@robsiemb FWIW "spammy" just means "containing the qualities of spam"; there's not really a functional difference
I would recommend using a modifier, at least, like "sort of" or "kinda" if you mean that
 
4:50 PM
ok, I'll be more careful with the wording in the future, thank you
 
(FWIW I do agree the question should be closed -- I would have voted too broad if I weren't out of close votes)
 
Also, its my first day with actual close votes, so I can actually give back to this room now :)
I inadvertantly discovered that you can vote to close something you have flagged to close, and it marks as helpful. Which... seems wrong, but is an edge case.
 
@robsiemb congratulations! It's one of the most useful tools available
 
@robsiemb you don't have to flag and vote-to-close any more :) just close away and it'll be added to the close ever-growing close queue, or you can post a VTC in this room and it usually gets closed sharpish (unless it's and then everyone ignores ;))
the helpful message is when someone (I think maybe only mods?) that can see the flag queue (God knows how big that is..) marks your flag as a helpful flag - they can also reject (with good reason)
 
@treyBake Yeah, I know getting to 3k removes your ability to flag, but any outstanding close flags aren't converted to votes (and if you happen to also vote on them, that seems marks the flag as helpful... apparently)
 
4:56 PM
Should still be able to flag o.O not sure about the second bit (the closing on a prev-flagged = marking your own flag)
 
@treyBake Not close flags. The flag dialog automatically votes in that case. Other flags, yes.
 
@treyBake I've seen so many datetime conversion questions in , it drives me nuts
 
@Das_Geek What can I say? Us PHP devs just love a good datetime conversion q
 
Dates are deceptively hard in general.
 
True, doesn't justify all the questions they're raisin though
 
5:03 PM
Mmm, raisins
 
5:13 PM
Maybe PHP needs clever names like Ubuntu and Android to make it better liked. PHP 7.4: Cinnamon Raisin
2
 
@Machavity I like it: the naming scheme will be off-brand cereals. Next up will be "Fruit Rounds"
 
user10957435
5:37 PM
PHP 7.5: Special K
 
user10957435
@Das_Geek What drives me nuts is how difficult it is to work with times in PHP. I now have to create an object, and then subtract that object from another object to get a different kind of object that is actually my answer. It was a lot simpler when PHP used functions for this kind of stuff, I think.
 
@Chipster Agreed. PHP in general is weird to work with. Feels like an incomplete collection of half-made tools. Though to be fair my last brush with PHP was on an old version, and without a framework
 
@chipster self-vandalism, if it makes a difference
 
user10957435
@robsiemb I don't think it does for Smokey's sake, but I'm not a Smokey expert yet. I'm still learning the ropes.
 
@chipster ah, its an alias
 
user10957435
5:48 PM
@Das_Geek Yeah, I've never used a framework. My last brush with PHP was with some rev of 7 I think, and before that it was either 4 or 5.
 
user10957435
@robsiemb Yes, it appears so.
 
@robsiemb having 3k reputation does not remove the ability to flag things if you want to, but there is no reason to when you can vote instead :)
 
@Dave does that happen when you run out of votes? the flag-to-close dialog definately shows me "Vote" and remaining vote count and not flags.
 
You can't flag for closure after you get 3k
 
@Kulfy got most of them now
 
5:53 PM
@JohnDvorak are you sure John? I just tried to flag to close on a post and it looks like it worked.
 
@Dave Flagging dialog redirects to voting dialog :)
 
Most likely you merely cast an actual vote
 
@robsiemb Thanks for looking into :)
 
@Kulfy It didn't. All the way through it said flagging.
@JohnDvorak you're probably right though the dialog doesn't change. :)
 
5:54 PM
I just realised SO chat's notification is sound is very sweet unlike SE chat...
 
It technically does. It should say "vote to close" instead of "flag to close".
not sure how it's actually phrased
 
Screenshot of close dialog on Ask Ubuntu: i.stack.imgur.com/dGL8o.png
See the button below. It says Vote to Close.
I shared a screenshot of Ask Ubuntu because I'm a 9k rep user there only :P
 
@Kulfy please do keep one-boxed images to a minimum here
we ask that users avoid them unless absolutely necessary (as they take up an inordinate amount of screen space)
 
To avoid them put some text along side the image.
 
Y'all be right, the subtle difference is in the lower right side where it shows vote instead of flag. Learned my something for today.
 
5:58 PM
nice, ninja-pug edit
 
@TylerH Oh Ok. now better?
@Dharman done..
 
@Kulfy let me know if I missed one but I think they're all rolled back now
 
New hobby: anytime "inordinate amount of space" is "saved" by removing an on-topic screenshot, fill twice as much screen space on discussions about the policy
2
 
@Kulfy thanks
 
@Chipster Sigh... PHP has improved so much and if you learn how to use it properly it is actually very simple and powerful. All the people who used PHP 4/5 bring the back fame on PHP.
 
5:59 PM
@JohnDvorak Then move said discussion to /dev/null?
 
@Kulfy SE chat uses the Star Trek TNG door chime
 
@robsiemb All seems fine. Thanks for looking into.
 
user10957435
@Kulfy That's dangerously close to asking us to moderate a user, which we're not really supposed to do here.
 
@Machavity O.o That's why I was wondering since past 2 years where I heard that :facepalm:
 
I don't think this counts as moderating users. This was about vandalism to the content
 
6:01 PM
Actually this is exactly what we do not allow re: user targeting (I'm just now seeing it)
 
Sigh.
 
@Chipster Actually no. If this room is meant for user level moderation, I think it'll be fine. But if it's only for closing question then may be my message was off-topic
 
@Dharman It does count. We strictly prohibit linking user profiles for that reason
 
user10957435
@Dharman I don't know. I like that it has the ability to use objects now, but the interface for dates particularly strikes me as something that was much simpler before. I feel like it's more complicated now to get a simple date.
 
@TylerH @Kulfy I've binned this message in accordance with Rule 20 - don't target users. If you see an instance of a user with multiple posts-worth of problems on this, don't bring it here. If it's abuse or vandalism, flag for a moderator, instead.
 
6:03 PM
TBH I generally avoid mod flags since they are too busy people ;-)
 
They signed up to be busy :-)
 
user10957435
Some of them aren't too busy (Cody Gray comes to mind. He still has time to hang out with us here sometimes).
 
May be because leaders want to spend time with their "co-workers"
IYKWIM
 
user10957435
@Kulfy I don't think I do. but that's okay.
 
-_-
 
6:12 PM
@Kulfy As mentioned, please raise a custom moderator flag for repeated vandalism, instead of mentioning it here. Flagging for a moderator for repeated vandalism allows the moderator to: give the user a time-out to cool down. The moderator can check for the user having deleted posts which should remain. If the user continues to vandalize after rollbacks, only >= a moderator can prevent more vandalism. We regular users can't do any of that.
 
@Makyen Thank you for the explanation as always. I'll keep that in mind :)
 
@Kulfy np. Thanks. :-)
 
@Makyen @TylerH sorry about that as well, will keep in mind in the future.
 
@robsiemb No worries -- there's no explicit restriction for users here regarding acting on requests that violate our rules (though we do ask you to use your best judgment). Almost always, requests that violate our rules are usually good requests in a vacuum (meaning if you encountered the post organically, you'd probably want to act on it in the requested way), but we simply have to regulate our activity very heavily to make sure we stay within the confines of what Shog and the CMs permit.
 
Makes a lot of sense. (But similar to not answering bad questions to discourage them, not acting on things against the room rules seems reasonable too)
Thank you again for the explanation.
 
6:19 PM
@robsiemb np. Once you know about it, rolling back each post (once!) and leaving a comment asking the user not to vandalize their post is a reasonable thing to do. Most users stop vandalizing if their first vandalism is rolled-back and a polite comment is left asking them not to vandalize and explaining why not. If the user is vandalizing multiple posts or if they are re-vandalizing posts, then it's almost always a case where a moderator should be brought in, even if it's just an "FYI" flag.
 
Hello experts, my answer stackoverflow.com/questions/59007638/… has been deleted. I have no clue why it happened.
 
@Makyen We did get the SD alert on the most recent post for that user. But that's not the same of course. :)
 
user10957435
@ArvindKumarAvinash It looks like the whole question was deleted, not just your answer.
 
@ArvindKumarAvinash The question was closed as a duplicate of this question, and deleted likely because the deleters perceived it to have no additional value over said duplicate.
 
6:22 PM
@robsiemb Yep. That's one of the crossovers between Charcoal HQ and SOCVR. Once it becomes about the user, anything further should be in Charcoal HQ.
 
user10957435
@Makyen Speaking of which, now's a good time to ask: Is tpu not allowed in this room too (just like allspam and reportuser) since it is technically moderating a user, or is that okay?
 
Probably for a similar reason, my answer stackoverflow.com/questions/58915156/… too had been deleted. I need to be careful before I attempt answering a question. Thank you.
 
@Chipster There is no restriction on giving tpu feedback. Technically, it just causes that SmokeDetector instance to report the next post by that user which is scanned, and does so until they are removed from the user-blacklist (usually by getting FP feedback on something).
 
@Chipster You're responding to the specific post. Someone who posts something red-flag-worthy should also be blacklisted.
 
user10957435
@Makyen Okay, thank you. I always wondered that.
 
user10957435
6:27 PM
@Machavity red flag: as in actual spam as opposed to vandalism and naa?
 
There is a bug on this page. If I click 'discussion' or 'moderation' button (above the room), it shows 'Page not found'. How to report it to SO?
 
@ArvindKumarAvinash If you feel your answer(s) provide something additional to what's already in answers on the duplicate-targets, then you are encouraged to put your answer on the duplicate-target, where it will get more visibility (and more upvotes). Note that if your answer is not already deleted from the duplicate, then you should delete it when putting it on the duplicate-target, as posting duplicate answers is frowned upon. In addition, your answer may need to be rewritten to work on the dup-target.
@ArvindKumarAvinash Bug reports are done via posts on any Meta site.
 
Thanks, @Makyen
 
np
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis @ekad @Machavity Why did you delete this question? While I see that it was closed as a duplicate of this question, and is an actual duplicate, the dup-target only has 3 other duplicates. That's way below the point where I'd consider it reasonable to delete duplicates just because there were already enough dups. Was there something about this specific question which made it delete-worthy?
 
@Makyen What do you mean by the dup-target only has 3 other duplicates?
 
7:03 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis There are a total of 7 questions linked to the dup-target. Of those, only 3 are closed as duplicate (all of which with the same dup-target). Thus, the dup-target only has 3 other duplicates.
 
M--
@M-- and after 4 downvotes, OP gained +2 reps because of the pity upvote
Out of curiosity, this new way of rep calc is now concrete? no way to change it back to the way it was before?
 
I mean, the developers can always change it back. It's convincing the PMs that it's worth doing.
 
@Chipster Red flag = spam or rude
 
@M-- The only people that could make such a change would be Stack Overflow employees. There has been a considerable amount of objection to the change, but not all feedback has been negative. However, SO as a company, has been very resistant to reversing the changes they've been making to the platform, regardless of the feedback they've gotten from the community.
2
 
M--
@Makyen "regardless of the feedback they've gotten from the community." That's reassuring. Thanks for the response.
 
@gunr2171 :(
 
to the comment?
 
well, yeah, you ruined my joke
I blame you for that.
 
there, joke un-runied
 
Joke made
Man, best joke evar!
 
7:26 PM
/facepalm
 
I'm awesome
 
Hi awesome
I'm gunr2171
 
waves
 
@gunr2171 I don't believe you. @gunr2171 is usually in a meeting. :P
 
gunr isn't in meeting this entire week!
 
7:28 PM
<gasp>
 
and, of course, to make up for that, I'll be in Miami for 4 days next week
 
@Makyen I guess I didn't feel like listing a bunch of duplicates (from like google: InputMismatchException nextdouble locale site:stackoverflow.com).
 
@gunr2171 in a meeting?
 
yep
all day, for 4 days
<internal screaming here>
 
Do you get to sleep?
 
7:29 PM
oh yeah, they're not that much of a slave driver
 
Is the meeting room called Miami?
 
It's in the city of Miami, Florida. Southern-east tip of the US
 
Ah, that is where I entered and left the US for a trip to Costa Rica
 
you should visit Orlando - they have a Dali museum :}
morning all /o
 
@gunr2171 Be careful. I hear they have too much sunlight down there. You might go blind
 
7:32 PM
@tink going there end of January (Disney World)
@Machavity I mean, it's better weather than here in New England...
 
=}
 
Just came back from Florida earlier this month: it was snowing when I left for there, and snowing when I got back. It was...a rough transition
Watching the temperature slowly tick down from 85 F to 20 in the span of a drive is not the most heartening thing
 
My flight from florida 2 years ago was delayed due to a blizzard at my home. I feel 'ya
 
It was nice while I was there, though :) Got to hang around Ybor City, where (I'm told) the real Cuban sandwiches are sold.
 
@rene: Well, color me surprised. Okay then. — Makoto 19 mins ago
So what crayon should I use for that?
 
Uh, it's already deleted?
 
@ArvindKumarAvinash Please avoid one-boxing links. You can do this by adding other text in front of the link
 
user10957435
@Das_Geek I'm in FL an it's like 50 here now. It's so freezing... (Floridian joke)
 
Is proper interactive usage of docker considered a programming topic?
 
What do you mean? Similar to how you would use a console program?
 
user10957435
7:49 PM
@M-- the first recalc made the network slow down for at least a day or two. Another recalc would probably make it slow down again. Not sure if I would enjoy that.
 
or like "how do I run a container?"
 
@ArvindKumarAvinash @makyen above asked about it and my answer is a few comments below (mixed with the rest of conversations). The are hundreds of duplicates of that question across the site. Especially with the keywords/title used in the post, we gain nothing by keeping the post around.
 
A guy is asking how to restore a postgres DB from a pg_dump file within a container
I wouldn't have thought of that as programming ..
 
Yeah, I'd consider that general computer
if it's a manual process
 
@gunr2171 Hmm, I would consider it colonel computer at most
5
 
7:53 PM
I award you one point
 
heh
 
@TylerH With its secret blend of 11 programming languages?
 
oh dear
 
@Makyen for what it's worth, I don't consider the # of questions linked (via closure) to a target when evaluating the worthiness of keeping a duplicate question around. Instead, I weigh whether the phrasing of the duplicate question is unique and likely enough to get hits (thus to serve as a good signpost). In its own right, a question should serve (or not serve) as a good sign post, independent of how many existing signposts there may already be.
 
@tink left a comment
 
7:58 PM
@ArvindKumarAvinash we did already discuss this question here chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/47939545#47939545
 
@TylerH While I agree with it's usefulness as a signpost being a primary consideration, the only real way that we know, one way or the other, is if the question exists for a while and we see how many views it gets.
 
good man @gunr2171
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis I don't suppose you'd be so kind as to remove the last entry from this list of dupes here stackoverflow.com/questions/59033212/…?
 
@gunr2171 the blurry one
 
@Chipster Yeah when I was there I went to the Cortez Crab Fest, which when it started was about 70 out. Saw plenty of jackets.
 
8:03 PM
@TylerH Done.
 
Thanks
 
M--
@Chipster I am pretty sure you are not enjoying unfair reps either. Couple days of network slow down vs. a fair system. But, after all, seems it's not up to us.
 
@Makyen I think it would take someone who is highly active in answering/user moderating SO becoming CEO of the company to enforce such changes.
Otherwise it's not likely
 
8:50 PM
So I guess we're going to be kept int the "Loop". (sic)
 
\o
 
o/
 
Sorry if this is out of order (wrong chatroom?), but I'm looking to "ping a mod" - there's something sinister going on in my account. (I flagged a "serial downvote" yesterday - rightly declined as "wait 24 hrs … and it was reversed by the system.) But, just logged on and found two downvotes on the same questions - don't know the timescales (~ 3 hrs ago) but looks very dodgy to me. Don't care about the -4 rep loss, but is someone doing something they oughtn't be doing?
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica you can flag one of your own posts and describe your concerns to a moderator
preferably a post that was affected (to minimize link-traversing for mods)
 
@TylerH Yeah, I get that - but maybe here is easier on our beloved moderators?
 
9:01 PM
No, you shouldn't raise issues in chat that should be a mod flag
1) we don't focus on user-targeting issues here, 2) there's no guarantee a moderator will see your chat message
Moderators have a specific queue for moderator flags that they work through each day
 
@TylerH OK - But I'm still really a newbie … I'll have a coffee and think about next curse of action. Again - sorry for the bad form!
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica We don't allow pinging mods in here for flaggable things. If you feel there is something amiss, please mod flag the post(s) you think were affected. See also this Meta.SE on serial voting
And Meta.SE is broke hard
 
@Machavity Yeah - I looked at Meta SE and saw it's broken.
So I'll have to risk (yet another) "declined" flag on my form sheet?
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Yep, the main serial downvoting was reversed. The two more from today won't be automatically reversed as there is not enough of them.
 
OK - What would the veterans recommend? Go to bed? Drink beer? Forget? Flag?
 
9:06 PM
In general mods tend to say that two DVs with similar timestamps may be from the same user, but there is not enough importance/evidence for them to submit it to a database admin (employee) to see if the IP addresses are the same.
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I recommend forgetting it for now, and flag if it becomes more serious. Mods are seriously overloaded at the mo.
 
^
 
^^
 
^^^
 
@Machavity MSO in some cases, too
 
... which is why I (erroneously) raised it here.
Anyway ... back to the Close Vote Queue!!
 
9:10 PM
CVQ FTW:P
2
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica MSE is back up
 
@Machavity Thanks for the heads up. Need food/caffeine first, though.
 
@Nkosi acronym overload
 
mission accomplished. lol
 
9:26 PM
:47940506 heh, much nicer than BBQ
 
user10957435
9:57 PM
@M-- I'm not a long standing user, so I don't think I've been around enough to consider it "unfair." more like SE is changing something silly that never needed to be changed.
 
user10957435
On the other hand, I never understood why questions were worth 5, and answers 10. My pattern-recognizing brain always told me it would make more sense if these 2 numbers were equal (10 and 10, or 5 and 5). So now I actually like that these values are aligned. but that;s just me.
 
10:09 PM
@Chipster because it's harder to answer a question than it is to ask one
it requires more knowledge, thus it should be rewarded more. This is why teachers are paid and students are not in a school environment, for example
4
 
@TylerH Yes, but an answer without a question is like peaches without steam.
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I don't understand the reference
 
Is that a question?
 
No, it's a statement
Though if you would like the reference to be understood, it is acceptable to take it as a cue to explain
 
M--
10:17 PM
@Chipster well as @Makyen said not all the feedback was negative about this change. Different opinions have always existed here and decisions were made based on community's collective thoughts (at least I hoped this would be the case). Cheers.
@TylerH out of votes?
 
user10957435
@TylerH True. I recon I get that. But doing it that way doesn't help my pattern-detecting brain ;D But I realize I might have a problem with detecting too many, and getting annoyed at a lack of, patterns...
 
user10957435
@M-- Well, my opinion I think comes from a lack of SE experience, so I don't necessarily think my opinion is the best one by any means, but I recon I am allowed to have it, even if it's wrong :D (just like you are allowed to have your opinion, even if you're ever in a situation where it's wrong)
 
Peaches and steam is a new one on me. Peaches on a very hot day? :=)
I favour apples and umbrellas myself - don't knock it 'til you have tried it.
 
user10957435
@Nkosi Ugh. "Meta tends to exclude people that aren’t super immersed in the Stack Overflow/Stack Exchange culture." So they're saying they want more input from people who are not invested in them? Or am I mis-reading into that?
 
@M-- Ahhhh... It's more that decisions were made without consulting the community, and without regard to the impact that those decisions would have on the community (or at least with a significantly different view of what that community was, or , at least, what it should be). The significant difference with the question upvote value change was that they did listen to feedback from moderators as to how to present it.
2
@TylerH Yeah, that's about what it would take. I consider that highly unlikely. :-(
 
M--
10:26 PM
@Chipster don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying you're not allowed to have an opinion (LOL, I'd never say that). I was simply pointing this out that at this stage where SO already served us with this never-requested feature, there's not much point discussing it. Besides the fact that here, most of the times, one is not totally right or wrong. It's more about what makes the most sense based on facts and experience. Cheers.
 
@halfer I guess I'm too reliant on smart IDEs. :-)
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Me too, it turned my cinnamon into an umbrella :-(
 
Re cc-pls: "I have zero experience in the either..." is never a good start!
 
M--
@Makyen I want to call that an improvement, but...
 
user10957435
@M-- Sorry no. I understood you weren't saying that at all. I was just saying that you were pointing out that there are different opinions, but I'm not particularly attached to mine because I don't have a particularly argument for it. That's all I meant by that.
 
10:32 PM
@M-- yep, for at least 30 more minutes...
I run out of votes very early in the morning
 
@TylerH Ah... It's a lot closer to 90 minutes, but that is at least 30. :-)
 
@Makyen technically... :-)
I don't like the rounding they do
be nice if they could tell me 1.5 hours (or 1+ hours) instead of "1 hours" at 1.5 hours out
 
@halfer Put a comment pointing out the "typo?"
 
user10957435
@halfer I'm not sure UB counts as a typo. I think any good answer about UB is helpful, just because we do get so many of them. I think a good answer in this case would probably do more good than harm if it can be articulated well (not that the accepted answer is articulated well).
 
10:36 PM
If nothing else, it lacks an MCVE.
 
@Chipster Could we get a "canonical" for UB? (Language-specific, maybe?)
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen Not minimal, yes, but it's enough to find the problem, as shown by the answer and the comment underneath it.
 
@Chipster A typo is an error made in transcription that would not necessarily be repeated if the typist were to re-type what they just typed
 
Not minimal though. It shall be minimal and verifiable and complete, not just some subset of those.
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen Fair enough.
 
10:38 PM
Just because it's answerable doesn't mean it's on-topic.
 
a lot of times people try to close simple misunderstandings using the reason, but the important thing is that there is another part to the "typo" close reason: not likely to be useful to others
so if you're closing a question that is likely to not be of use to future readers because it's a very basic misunderstanding, be prepared to explain that instead of using "typo" as your cv-pls reason here
or it runs the risk of getting binned
 
Oftentimes, a (quick but) decent answer can be very helpful to early-learner OPs. But then, the question should be closed as "non-reproducable/unhelpful to others"
 
I doubt that would work, at least for C++. It's extremely broad.
Even the segfault-cannonical, which is just a small subset of the UB problems, never really took off, arguably due to being too broad, too.
 
@TylerH Yeah, most of the time I'd prefer the actual number, not some (poorly) rounded-off approximation. It's not like I wouldn't round it off in my head, or when talking to someone else, if I don't need the precision. The issue is that the lack of precision shown in the page causes more times of having to actively get the real data than I expect I'd need to put work into figuring an approximation on my own.
There have been lots of times when I've had to go back and forth looking at tooltips in order to accurately compare dates/times.
 
user10957435
@TylerH Which I think think this one would if it were re-typed.
 
10:42 PM
@Chipster Yes, for example if you try to write a function with a variable that is not defined, a lot of people would call that a 'typo' and close it, but they would be wrong. OP thinks it should work and typed out his understanding correctly.
 
user10957435
@TylerH Are you still talking to me? Because I didn't originate the cv-pls request. I'm actually sort of arguing it should stay open.
 
The problem there is not OP's typing, but OP's thinking. Problems w/ OP's thinking may be closed as "not likely to help future readers" but not as "typo". We used to have simper closer reasons: Too Localized, and Lacks Minimal Understanding, but they were done away with for various reasons
@Chipster I'm using the general "you"; I'm aware you were replying to halfer's request
 
user10957435
@TylerH Oh, okay.
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I am not sure I understand your comment. Would you expand?
 
anyway, it's the end of the day for me. Time to head home
 
10:44 PM
That one is definitely off-topic. The close reason of "typo" is really "typo/unrepro", and is used where the fix is so trivial that it is not worth recording in a Q&A
In that specific case, the question author did not initialise a variable. So, it is not exactly a typographical error, but it can be closed for that reason.
I doubt anyone with that problem will find that question.
 
@halfer OK, let's talk about c - OP has char* bob instead of char** bob - could be a typo, could (probably would) cause UB. Is it worthy of explanation? Probably, yes. Is it going to be useful for future browsers? Probably not.
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen My vote for a canonical segfault question would be this one because probably 80% of segfaults are related to this somehow. The other common reasons don't seem to have a good Q&A for them yet that I can find.
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica There will be a range of views here about the best thing to do. If it is only useful for one person, then comment+close may be the most popular view.
I see the point you are trying to show though, and I agree with it in theory - some "typo" questions are non-trivial.
There are probably a fair number of dups though.
 
Comment+close is normally what I do (unless I'm feeling rep-hungry). Sometimes, I get a comment along the lines: "This would be a good answer," so I post it as such.
 
user10957435
@halfer Fair enough. That's a good point.
 
10:50 PM
@Chipster I don't like that one at all. Way too unreadable.
 
user10957435
The C++ tag desperately needs a good question that people will find that solves this problem, though.
 
@Chipster NP. I don't mind you (or anyone here) voting to reopen based on a different view of things though.
 
But I guess the trouble with a UB canonical is that learners won't get why/how it relates to their problem.
 
@Chipster We have stackoverflow.com/q/30172416, among several others.
 
user10957435
10:52 PM
@BaummitAugen What's unreadable about it?
 
Try "site:stackoverflow.com value of uninitialized variable" or sth like this.
@Chipster Too much irrelevant code, non self-contained leading to guesswork about what is around the code, needles IO, needless C constructs, random paths that have nothing to do with the question...
 
user10957435
Sorry, I should be clear that the question I linked is about another problem than uninitialized variables. It's about segfaults because the OP is trying to do a VLA.
 
@Chipster I figured that out through careful reading. If the question had an MCVE, it would have been obvious.
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen Fair enough. Perhaps it could be edited, or is editing the code of a question conflicting the the OP's intent?
 
@Chipster There are better canonicals for that. Unfortunately, I've lost my dupe list...
Gimme a sec.
Also stackoverflow.com/a/3851192, but the accepted answer is unfortunate.
 
user10957435
11:03 PM
@BaummitAugen I really don't like that second one. It talks about why VLAs aren't in the standard, not what to do instead--which is what we need more of.
 
^ Aah! Use of the STL - old guy, I try!
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen I really like that one, though. Thanks for the tip. I'll keep it in mind.
 
user10957435
I'm actually probably going to vote to close it as a duplicate, since you found a better one than my old favorite.
 

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