« first day (2190 days earlier)      last day (1839 days later) » 

12:00 AM
@StephenKennedy Definitely not a problem. Please feel free to answer something like that. I was away when it was posted and did get a delayed start on replying. If I was away for just a bit longer, you would have responded prior to me even starting to reply. I have no problem being ninja'd... Well, OK, when ninja'd it often feels like I should have been faster :-), but I know the important thing is that it got handled.
I have a question. So I stumbled upon a reddit post (old.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/dyko5d/…) and it seems someone is upvoting other SO accounts in order to get them more privileges. Do we have some way of catching people like this?
@Sailanarmo They all get caught and sanctioned by moderators and their analysis. Just be patient.
@Sailanarmo I'm not seeing anything concerning there (although I might have missed it). The OP suggests upvoting questions and answers one finds useful, which is exactly what upvoting is for. Another poster complained they have no rep and others offered to upvote them to help, but that poster declined the offer.
However, the recommendation is to upvote all good posts. That is what upvoting is for, nothing punishable in that.
@Sailanarmo Up- and down-votes are private. It's very difficult to determine that people are doing so for inappropriate reasons. However, there are automatic checks in place for detecting people casting multiple votes on the same user's posts. What exactly the criteria for such voted being automatically caught are not disclosed. If you see something which you feel is a pattern of unusual voting, then you can raise a custom moderator flag and explain the issue.
12:09 AM
@StephenKennedy, it was this comment: "Pm me what's your stackoverflow, I'll upvote a couple of your questions." And someone down below said, "69 points folks. We did it. We fucking did it."
Oh it wasn't the OP I had the issue with. What the OP suggests is fine, because that is exactly what this site is used for. Upvoting the good questions and ones they find useful. It was the upvote farming that was in the comments that I was a bit worried about. I'm sure more than one person sent that person a PM.
69 points isn't much. 69 upvotes on the other hand...
Good point about the PMs but those, like the votes here are private, so I think the mods wouldn't want to get involved. You'll probably have to shrug this one off I'm afraid :/
Oh well.
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
3:52 AM
@Sailanarmo Moderators are aware of that; it came to our attention many years back when it was first suggested. As others have mentioned, we have pretty good tools for tracking vote fraud. They could be better, and we inevitably miss some, but we know it's happening and are on the watch for it. You can also be our eyes and ears out there. If you smell something fishy, please raise a moderator flag. These are confidential, and we can see information that normal users can't.
If we need more help investigating, we can escalate the issue to a staff member, who can see even more information than moderators can. (As a caveat, though, staff's handling of these tickets is very backed up right now, so responses will be very slow.)
Suffice it to say, though, if someone is getting 69 upvotes from a single user or even a small ring of users...we're gonna know about it. Regardless of whether they're co-workers, friends, or some rando you found on Reddit. And we can handle that easily, by either removing the votes or outright removing the accounts.
@Dharman *You can ask other sobotics users to review and reflag if valid.
and here too ()
\o @BhargavRao nice to see you
o/
just passing
4:15 AM
Nice to know you're still lurking :)
4:27 AM
Might just get back to normalcy ... ;p
4:37 AM
Motivated by all your new rep from those 12 questions?
Nah
By the fact that there's 150+ flags in the custom queue
Which ... isn't acceptable.
bronze tag, yay!
3
The bronze tag comes with strings attached.
I ate a handful today, but I've got a conference this week that'll be sucking up most of my attention, so tag you're it, @BhargavRao :-)
user10957435
@tripleee Congrats.
4:45 AM
Aye, on it already. ;)
it's my lucky day
now I know who to call when I have a problem with strings \o/
"at your service"
6:07 AM
@CodyGray There ya go i.sstatic.net/94VO6.png
user10957435
6:36 AM
They really scared me for a second. I read the title and thought they were adding a news platform for Stack Overflow. I'm not sure what was worse, the thought of this turning place into some weird news platform, or the fact that I didn't trust SE enough to not do something awful like that. Really glad it was just an interview of sorts...
@tripleee now instead unreproducible
@Chipster The real WTF is that you still read the blog.
user10957435
@CodyGray In my defense, 1) it was on the sidebar, which I check out once in a while to mare sure nothing new important is posted there, and 2) It was such a crazy headline, I had to check it out. I had to make sure that wasn't actually happening.
I just don't understand who the audience is for these podcasts. Hello, I read a Q&A site. Why should I also start listening to a podcast? I can read about 1 million times faster than the average person can talk, and part of the reason I read Q&A is because I don't want to listen to a bunch of nonsense.
5
Nor do I understand the audience for these blog posts. They don't say anything even of remote interest.
Do they have audience?
6:48 AM
Why is Python 3 slow to be adopted? Gee, I don't even have to read the blog post to know the answer to that. Everyone who has been around tech for more than 5 minutes understands the concept of "legacy systems".
But that's not even what the blog post talked about.
user10957435
@CodyGray Totally agree on the podcast thing. As for the blogs, sometimes they post announcements that really should probably on meta, on the blog for some reason. So there are important things on the blog: just not any of the non-announcement stuff.
user10957435
What's more (on the Python thing), it doesn't really matter for people who don't use Python. And the people who do, probably already know that.
Right. I'm still slow to adopt Python 1, because I adopted C++ instead.
I don't want to have a run-time environment that constricts around my neck like a snake.
That's why I like Ruby
user10957435
Or find out about typos at run-time.
6:51 AM
That's why I ... dammit.
Or waste an entire day dealing with a program that won't run because there's an extra space somewhere
That's why I <any other language ever>
Ruby ignores all whitespace past the tokenisation phase
user10957435
That's probably why I dislike interpreted languages. Compiled once give me another level of safety to weed out all the really bad stuff.
@Chipster that's why I like Haskell
Safety and performance. Remind me again what the advantage is of interpreted languages?
6:53 AM
@CodyGray faster development cycle for the language author
Seriously, I sometimes have dreams that someone will write a compiler for Python. I haven't been able to convince myself that it's a bad idea, it just doesn't fit into the community's vision.
@JohnDvorak How, though? I mean, you can argue that C++'s syntax is more obtuse and takes longer to develop in than Python, but can you really argue that Python is faster to develop in because it's interpreted? (That goes back to my previous point about my dream of writing a Python compiler.)
user10957435
@CodyGray Yeah, that whole whitespace thing it kind of weird
@CodyGray the language author doesn't need to write a compiler for every target platform. Theoretically you can interpret a language using cross-platform code
user10957435
@CodyGray I don't know. Most interpreted languages I've met in the wild don't care about type safety, so it allows you to program without caring about the type all that much. That's great if you want to be lazy, and really awful for most all other reasons.
Theoretically. In practice, there are more C and C++ compilers targeting different platforms than there are platforms with JVMs or...whatever it is Python needs.
6:56 AM
To language users, it doesn't really bring much
user10957435
@JohnDvorak I never really played with Haskell, so I wouldn't know.
Haskell is functional through and through. Great for functional stuff. The sequential stuff is ... less good.
Which means it's great for ivory tower work, not so great for getting stuff done.
user10957435
@JohnDvorak But then you have to have to write an interpreter for every target platform. So it's still the same problem.
I'm eyeing F# to see if it's any better
6:58 AM
@Chipster Exactly!
user10957435
Pretend I don't know the difference between "functional" and "sequential."
functional is x = y, sequential is x := y
The phrasing is more "functional" vs "procedural". The big idea in functional languages is that nothing is mutable. There's no state. Everything is a function, with no side-effects other than its outputs.
Order of evaluation isn't well-defined for a functional program.
In modern programming paradigms, things aren't black-and-white anymore. Modern languages and styles have adopted the best of both styles, merging them together. In modern C++, for example, you avoid side-effects as much as possible, effectively writing quasi-functional programs in an otherwise procedural framework.
Modern C++ style guides tend to recommend avoiding mutable objects.
user10957435
So could you give me an example of a language of each type, or is that your point about modern programming languages?
Well, Haskell (functional) vs. C.
user10957435
7:03 AM
C is procedural?
Erlang vs. Pascal.
Absolutely C is procedural. C defined procedural.
But modern languages like Swift, JavaScript, even Java and C++ have borrowed from functional languages, creating a sort of hybrid.
Well, I take that back. I guess assembler defined procedural. But C was really just "portable assembly".
user10957435
Okay, I think I understand the difference now. Procedural sort of starts a program start to finish (like C), while functional once are more about calling functions once you get some sort of state (like JavaScript)? Is my understanding correct?
user10957435
@JohnDvorak I'm afraid I don't know what := does. I haven't used a lot of languages with that.
I was afraid to admit I didn't understand that, either.
Looks like Pascal to me, where it is just assignment, same as = in C.
functional languages tend to be characterized by the idea of pure functions, where a function is not supposed (or in the strict case allowed) to have any side effects -- it can only return a value to its caller, not modify anything in the environment
7:08 AM
I'd say that's a broadly correct summary, but there's a lot of nuance to this, mostly because it's not a neat divide, and a lot of things get thrown into "functional". For example, treating functions as first-class types, and being able to pass them around and manipulate them. That's a hallmark of a functional language. Yet JavaScript and C++ can both do that.
but have a look at e.g. Prolog for a way to really twist the way you look at programming, it doesn't define a start and a finish, just a goal and a set of predicates to reach that goal
@tripleee To be fair, just about every function that I write in C++ is a pure function, mutating only its inputs or outputs, not random things in its environment.
user10957435
Okay, I understand now. Thanks, everyone :D.
Can I admit that I find these discussions to sometimes be more fun than dealing with the drudgery of moderating the worst that SO has to offer? :-)
user10957435
@CodyGray Absolutely :D
7:24 AM
@tripleee oh, Prolog ... I haven't touched that since my study (many, many moons ago) but boy that was awesome.
7:58 AM
Okay, what is weird here ...
@rene Sigh. The things that can only go wrong with a 10k real human, not a bot.
@CodyGray yeah, check the two other deleted answers as well ;)
Oh dear. I thought Peter was rick-rolling us, but no... Now we get links to specific timepoints in a grammar video
LOL
EnglishOverflow
Something overflowed
8:15 AM
Wait, Peter is a bot?
@Dharman No, that's the joke. If it was a bot, it would know not to edit deleted posts. That would be trivial to program. Only a real human, with the 10k+ privilege of setting deleted posts, would make the mistake of editing deleted posts.
But the joke works because he's such a prolific editor, both on the main site and on Meta, that you could easily confuse him for a bot. (To be fair, he does use tools to do these edits.)
 
1 hour later…
9:38 AM
:47896241 spammers making me scroll for the flag button
9:58 AM
@Adriaan didn't flag, too much effort
@rene exactly; let SD's auto-flagging take care of it
 
1 hour later…
11:42 AM
Why that "" is not rendered as tag in my earlier message? Is anything wrong in syntax?
huh, copying it exactly and just pasting worked
It's a multiline message. Multiline messages skip markdown.
I wonder when this bug's been reported
is bug or intentional? Guessing intentional based on John's comment
12:00 PM
@treyBake Pretty sure it's a bug
@Kyll maybe, just feels like it's a known thing that it skips markdown when a multiline message (though, I'm in the boat of markdown should be rendered)
Should we be downvoting answers on questions that have dupes?
Feels like they should add the answer to the dupe target if it's not already there ..
12:28 PM
@Shree was that post removed? Or is it the question?
@treyBake an answer obviously because of the /a/
and deleted
@double-beep ah look at the link my bad^^
'fternoon
\o
1:40 PM
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Someone has finally made a romance novel just for C++ programmers
o.m.g.
^ couldn't have said it better
I just woke up, and after seeing this I already need to go back to bed lol
 
1 hour later…
2:49 PM
@treyBake Dunno. I guess one should judge answers only by their own quality
@Kyll I guess, just feels rep-grabby to post an answer that has a dupe, more annoyingly (for me at least), the high-rep users that do it get upvotes, even when it's closed as a dupe, if a low-rep user does that, they get downvoted and the answer removed
But I guess that's a subjective thing as to what to DV or not
3:07 PM
o/
3:45 PM
@LittleBobbyTables with multiple uvotes, to boot -_-
@TylerH - yeah, I'm getting really tired of trying to negate sympathy/clueless upvotes
@LittleBobbyTables that smells like a voting ring; recommendation Q with upvotes, answer with upvotes by a second author, comment on said answer by a third person applauding it. I modflagged.
yeah seems to be a new trend :p
though CTRL + END works for me :p still have to scroll up a lil' bit, but not as much as down
4:16 PM
@TylerH up to five upvotes now, wheeeeee! I can't even vote to delete it now :P
wow
that's definitely suspicious
4:34 PM
downvoting both the q and a got the q/a an upvote within 10 mins.. I'd say some puppets be at work
5:08 PM
The new upvote system on questions.
7 upvotes (70) - 7 down votes (14).
sigh.
yep. That's a real kicker
At least now I don't care anymore about down voting. I don't like it, I down vote it, doesn't matter what the score is.
6:22 PM
@TylerH @Adriaan @treyBake Let's keep things about post content, please, not about specific users. (cc: @logankilpatrick)
6:41 PM
@Dharman That one looks more like a TYPO nightmare to me
I don't see any typos there.
@RiggsFolly If you are talking about my recent cv-pls then I read the code and I can't see any obvious typos. It is unclear to me what the question is asking about, because there is no explanation.
7:55 PM
@gunr2171 o/
9:10 PM
Does anyone know if there is a way to fetch/scrape the history of low quality queue?
9:23 PM
@Dharman I imagine yes - you can retrieve CV queue data via the API so I imagine you can retrieve data from other queues
I can't help with an implementation, though...
@Dharman just don't scrape via xhr as you risk a temp IP ban
@QHarr Good to know.
@TylerH How do you know that you can read CV queue data? Has this been done before somewhere?
@Dharman Yeah I made the mistake of using an add-in that checked my SO favourite links were still valid via xhr =>>> temp ban
@Dharman well I never knew the particulars but we used to have a bot, Closey, who would report on CV Queue activity
as a way to further encourage participation in question cleanup via mild gamification
the author and code maintainer / bot-hoster no longer participates on Stack Overflow, unfortunately.
@TylerH I found the github link. Thanks github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/SOCVR-Chatbot
...and there is even functional spec. Inconceivable!
9:33 PM
heyy, how bout that
@Dharman we have some data... Using 10k account.. what are you up to?
But yeah restart ing closet would be nice..
I was going to investigate if it is possible to write a bot that would inform me when someone edits a post in LQQ
@Dharman when any post was edited from LQP?
or when a specific someone edits a post from the LQP?
(I only ask because the latter may not be allowed)
anyone. Quite often the edit is done to NAA and it kicks it out of the queue
Ah, yeah that's probably fine then.
9:39 PM
I don't mean to stalk anyone, I just want to monitor the edited posts which get kicked out of the queue
user10957435
@Machavity Some things just don't need to be made. I'm 90% sure this is one of those things. And I love C++.
@Dharman I need to check API, try to ping Floren in SOBotics about it
@Chipster On the contrary, a C++ romance novel is sure to hit the New York Times Bestseller list!
user10957435
9:55 PM
@TylerH The only thing I can think of that is worse is a Stack Overflow News Site. So, of course it will probably hit the Best Seller list. But it still never needed to get made.
I am very frustrated. I have found a COMPLETELY, provably incorrect answer with a green tick and 26 upvotes. stackoverflow.com/a/6875963/2943403 It is poisoning the Stackoverflow knowledge pool. What can be done to spare researchers from learning/copying this incorrect technique?
user10957435
@mickmackusa Down-vote and comment is the best you can do, I think, unless someone else has something better.
I have seen hundreds such answers and I have so far not found any solution. I posted about it on meta and the best answer I got was to just downvote.
28 people found totally incorrect answer helpful... I have no idea why.
Utterly ineffective though against an avalanche of uninformed upvoters.
I need to find something earlier to hammer with.
We could close this as a duplicate of Zalgo, but I don't think people like doing this.
10:10 PM
@mickmackusa Really the only options is to down vote and/or leave a comment. You can also add/up vote a correct answer to bring it closer to the top. You can also comment to the OP asking to un-accept the answer.
2
@mickmackusa That user is very present in chat, you can speak to them...
10:31 PM
Yeah, I recognize rlemon. Regular in the JS room IIRC
I have notified the answerer of my observation and explained how it is wrong -- they claim the answer is correct enough. That's when I stop appealing to the volunteer and look to protect researchers in another fashion.
@mickmackusa if you care speak to them with an open mind or post an own answer... Not much sense to do anything else...
@mickmackusa I've notified him of your disagreement directly. However, keep in mind that the kind of comment you left isn't really in compliance with the Code of Conduct. It's likely to be deleted. If you have an issue with the accuracy of an answer, downvote it and if you so choose, leave an objective, neutrally-worded comment on the answer outlining your concerns. Saying things like "clearly you obviously don't know anything about <thing>" isn't likely to engender support from anyone.
5
That is my toned-down comment. My earlier scathing comment was deleted a day earlier. If my toned-down comment is still too harsh, moderators should edit it (I of course cannot edit it anymore) instead of deleting it because it is imperative that researchers not learn from this hogwash and understand why it is wrong.
Mods have a lot on their plates as of late. It's a lot easier to just click delete.
10:44 PM
@mickmackusa moderators aren't in the business of editing comments except when there's something quite useful and only a simple curse word or something similar that can be removed without altering the meaning or value.
it's just some php, JavaScript.. no need to be upset
My irritation comes from the fact that a user with 15.9K rep points (the community is supposed to be able to "trust" this poster) is simply refusing to improve an answer that is proven to be wrong. I would never behave that way if someone blew the whistle on one of my old answers. I would thank them and fix my answer asap.
Even when YourCommonSense used to burn my early [mysqli] answers years ago with his trademark venom. I would sift out the value from his comment, fix my post, and be sure not to repeat the mistake again.
Lol trademark venom
@mickmackusa claiming that you think you handle criticism well isn't really relevant. If you want people to engage with you, don't insult them. That's my free and final advice on the matter. Any further issues w/ it should be taken to Meta; we're not in the habit of moderating users or interactions between them here.
4
Mick, go outside, get some fresh air and don't waste your health fuming over other bad programmers. The world is full of them.
10:51 PM
Nah, gotta start my work day now. Thanks for the exchange all.
user10957435
11:09 PM
@TylerH Or engender the wrong kind of support ;).
I want to downvote something so bad but I'm out of votes!
@SotiriosDelimanolis You only have to wait 43 more minutes, then you will have more. :-)
I wish all the votes that went unused since I joined would be reimbursed right now
user10957435
11:27 PM
downvote-pls requests aren't allowed here, so to keep from this conversation from turning into that, I will refrain from asking for a link to the question/answer in question, but can I ask what was so wrong with it that you feel the urgent need to down-vote it right now?
Could you imagine if votes rolled over? That never-used 10-year-old account just became a bit scary
@Chipster I do believe their statement was meant as a joke
I'd like lose all my reputation downvoting the whole webiste
likely*
All that would be left would be John Skeet posts
@chipster it was a piece of code from a book that's been asked about a lot, copy pasting the output in google would've brought up the answers
user10957435
@SotiriosDelimanolis Got you. You're just tired of seeing it. I understand. But I'd assume it could wait 30 minutes. It will probably still be there when the UTC day changes. If not, then it will have been moderated out of existence, so it will still be okay :D.
11:32 PM
@M-- Do you have a question about moderating that post?
M--
M--
@StephenKennedy already sent a cv-pls
user10957435
@M-- Yikes. Helped close it for you.
M--
M--
@StephenKennedy here's the link to the req chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/41570?m=47888692#47888692
Binning the latest one then. Thanks.
M--
M--
@StephenKennedy was it problematic?
11:39 PM
@M-- Yes, given the context of the current room discussion about downvoting horrible posts, and as you a) already have a cv-pls active and b) told me you don't require any room input on how to deal with that post, I decided it best to bin it. I am not suggesting you were asking for downvotes, rather that a casual observer might think you were. As an RO I must ensure we are beyond reproach.
M--
M--
@StephenKennedy ok, I was away for couple hours so I didn't read the latest discussions. In that context, it makes sense. To clarify though, I was just frustrated with these type of comments where we ask for clarification or mcve, etc. and all we get is "I dunno, give me the answer". So I was sharing with my fellow cv'ers ;)
@M-- No worries, thanks for your understanding
(just FYI, some post was deleted and I got back my DV, sweet release!!!)
@M-- BTW: Please see this message, which is pinned on the starboard.
M--
M--
11:48 PM
@Makyen Well I did not leave a comment as a reason. It was just part of my cv-req. Maybe I don't fully understand "that message".
can I vote to close a question as "Too Broad/Needs more focus" and then send a cv-pls with "TB (give me code)"?
@M-- "No" is exactly what that message is trying to convey. Just cv-pls as "Too Broad". No GMTC or similar.
M--
M--
ok, thanks
@M-- Basically, "Gimme teh Codez" has been significantly objected to by several people. In particular, it was the most mentioned specific objectionable request wording in our August 2018 room meeting for topic #5. The intent of the changes to the FAQ at that time was that "GMTC", in all its variations, was to not be permitted under the general wording that was added at that time. That lasted for a while, then people started using it again.
2
Since then, use of GMTC has varied, but it's continued to be used by multiple people. It's been clear that the way that we ROs have been enforcing the rule hasn't been consistent. The message was intended to make it more clear that we would be enforcing the general rule, with GMTC as one example of commentary which shouldn't be used.
2

« first day (2190 days earlier)      last day (1839 days later) »