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2:12 AM
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Q: Gadzooks! A wild [xcode-server] just appeared!

Tom MinorThe xcode-server tag had some attention a few years back: Merge [xcode-service] into [xcode-server]; remove [xcode-service] tag Similar to what happened back in 2015, I propose that xcode-server has some new inspection. The tag excerpt is: Xcode Server is the name for the Xcode service prev...

 
3:05 AM
There are only a few questions left open in the tag burninate
 
3:50 AM
 
4:06 AM
 
4:48 AM
^ bleh, spent my close vote before looking for a duplicate
 
@Burnination-Feed left a comment
 
5:09 AM
 
5:45 AM
@Makyen I missed CV generator request button after update on close vote review queue. I try both release version (1.6.10) and alpha version (1.8.10.0) but unable to get.
 
@Shree So, it's missing in the CV review queue? or on normal question pages? [The release version doesn't attempt to add it to the review queue pages.]
@Shree I'm assuming the review queue. I've been able to duplicate. I'm looking into it.
 
CV review queue
Ok thanks.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:14 AM
@Makyen it's missing for me on the question I just reported, I originally voted to close on my mobile and then visited it on the desktop to get the cv-pls link but it's not there no matter how I reload or click links to it
 
@tripleee Thanks. Looks like SE changed back to using an older version of their HTML.
 
I was about to ask about clashes between cv-pls and the tracker userscript (Belisarius I think? these bots and their userscripts have fairly opaque names) but maybe that's gone too then
 
7:53 AM
Request Generator updates: release version to 1.6.11 (GitHub) (install). The alpha version to 1.8.11.0 (GitHub) (install). Both resolve issues due to SE HTML/CSS changes.
5
 
@Adriaan Maybe it got deleted just as you were flagging?
 
8:09 AM
@Adriaan That would be a response from the SE API. Neither FIRE nor MS will generate that, but it is a response from the SE API which MS checks for in response to flagging.
 
@Makyen yea, it's the same red thing you get when trying to flag within 5 seconds of a previous flag
 
@Adriaan At the moment, I'm not recalling the exact conditions which result in that response. A race condition, as suggested by @MichaelDodd sounds like a definite possibility.
 
9:00 AM
Before anyone asks about my avatar change, yes it relates to the recent Hearthstone/Bilzzard controversy. I can no longer support Blizzard or their games.
 
^^ what happened? All I saw was a post with F*** Blizzard without any links to anything xD
 
Professional player makes comment in support of the HK protestors on Chinese stream, Blizzard bans him for a year and forfeits his total winnings for the year so far: theverge.com/2019/10/8/20904308/…
 
That's so stupid
 
Given that an investigation about a previous proven cheater took nearly a year to happen before any action was taken
 
Oh you play our game, you're no longer allowed your own views
 
9:04 AM
it's more the blatent money-chasing
but those here are already very much aware on my views on the PRC, Hong Kong & Taiwan, so I'll leave it there.
 
yeah, damn. Well snap
 
9:34 AM
@MichaelDodd Honestly I say good riddance, they broke the competition T&Cs, get rid of em
 
@NickAthePopcornKing Disproportionate IMO. Yes disqualification for that tournament, a short term ban and a warning not to bring politics in again, but a year-long ban and forfeiture of earnings for the entire season is way over the top
given it was the same length of ban as actual cheating (and AFAIK Roger didn't get the previous prize money forfeiture)
 
9:55 AM
@MichaelDodd FWIW, it's the ban I agree with, the rescinding of prize money seems a bit far-fetched and (especially as it was retroactive from what I understand) and the banning of the hosts was totally unreasonable, they did try to handle it as well as they could. A year is a short term ban, they have only been banned from professional competition, and streaming is a far better revenue stream
 
10:44 AM
@MadhurBhaiya why do you repost, it was submitted here by SD just above?
 
Ya I mentioned SD Report.
 
yes but why? does reporting it here twice somehow provide an advantage?
 
Generally, have seen other room members also report the same; so I thought maybe a convention to investigate the SD report, and if correct, give flag/spam/cv tags for other members
 
generally if Smoke Detector posts something here that's already a spam alert
 
I'm more thinking about what to close the given SD report as, POB or Unclear
 
10:48 AM
but often Smokey reports something which isn't spam but which should be close voted for other reasons; then we post a second report with our suggested cv-pls
 
isn't there a sd <cmd> for that (confirmation it is or isn't)?
 
@treyBake you can respond to smokey reports if you have the privilege, yes
but that's still not going to produce an updated cv-pls for a different reason here
 
@tripleee ok..noted.
 
@tripleee ah, key word being privilege - how does one earn (I guess it's all in the smokey documentation)?
 
10:50 AM
IIRC you can provide feedback here even without a metasmoke account, but you probably should get an account so you can change your mind
 
^, I think you can provide some feedback without
I think it possibly also depends on the room you're in?
 
@NickAthePopcornKing Thank you O mighty Popcorn king :) will give it a read :)
 
I think as non-priv you just have access to why and autoflagged
oof, that double post from timeout
 
11:12 AM
anyone else not able to load metasmoke signup? Seems to hang for me :/
 
ahh ty^
 
11:27 AM
 
11:52 AM
@Shree that's a pretty old message, Metasmoke died less than an hour ago
 
12:29 PM
@Dharman It's responding to the last SD message, not the unbinned one above
 
I figured
 
Morning
 
Hello
 
o/
 
12:46 PM
\o
@tripleee Spam. Look at the link
Same as the username
 
mm true, thanks for noticing
 
Besides the fact that it was spam, SUPREMELY HIDEOUS is not valid close reason, and can be considered a little offensive
 
@Dharman Hey, I take great pride in being SUPREMELY HIDEOUS :)
 
@tripleee Please don't disparage posts in your cv-pls. Just stick to the actual close reason.
 
@NathanOliver sure, sorry
 
12:58 PM
Thanks
 
Hey @MichaelDodd does the avatar change have anything to do with recent events? Just realized it was changed and couldn't help but wonder. ;P
 
Fuuuuu I am now included in the -1 hidden votes thing
 
It seems that Stack Overflow has stopped showing negative votes
 
1:12 PM
Do not like for answers
 
Got this message on downvoting an utterly wrong answer:

Thanks for your vote! Your vote has been recorded and it affects this post’s ranking. Since this post’s score is below 0, your vote will not be displayed.
 
@MichaelDodd Doh (face slap) I didn't scroll up high enough.
 
Oh for goodness... This isn't another one of those "welcoming" things is it?
 
Looks that way
If they don't see they are at -6 they wont feel as bad
 
1:15 PM
stupid
 
Negative votes are usually a very good indicator for finding spam, R/A and posts that should be otherwise closed
2
 
Remember guys and gals and toasters, moderation is on the way out and ad revenue is the new hotness
 
I think the problem is a perspective thing. I remember when I first joined SO and downvoting felt personal/attacking. Took ages to really understand and respect the power of downvotes and what they really mean for the community - IMO more should be done to make users aware of that rather than hide the problem to them
 
@treyBake That takes a lot of time and money. They can hide the problem and continue on with a lot less time and money taken.
 
yeah, that's capitalism for ya :/
 
1:21 PM
Hmm, Anyone remember if clicking on the vote down button used to cancel your down vote?
 
It's always done that. Or tries to anyways. If the vote locked, you'll get an error
 
Okay. I just never do it so it surprised me.
 
lol
 
@treyBake they could easily fix that by hiding it from the person affected but not from the person casting the vote
 
@TylerH maybe.. though for me seeing the downvotes made me want to get better and look into how to be a good SO member
 
1:35 PM
or putting the first thing you see in the message about receiving a downvote "Don't worry, downvotes aren't personal!"
2
 
yeah I like that idea^
 
@treyBake Well yes for sure we don't want to hide the fact that you have problems from you (you in the editorial sense, not you in the treyBake sense)
 
yeah, definitely not haha - I wonder what the experiment is
 
"So you've received a downvote. Here's what that means:

Don't worry! Downvotes aren't personal! If you've received a downvote on a question you asked, it means that someone found the question either lacking in research effort, found it unclear, or found it problematic in some other way.

But how can a question be problematic?! What if you already looked everywhere for an answer? Stack Overflow aims to be a repository of questions and answers about specific, answerable programming questions. If your question is asking for opinions or best practices, or takes an entire blog post or book to a
13
for example
 
I like it
 
1:40 PM
yeah +1 :)
 
If someone downvotes an answer, and nobody is around to denounce it, is it unwelcoming?
 
especially the that you didn't turn here as your first resort, but rather your last. part
 
@Adriaan I just voted to delete it.
 
2:35 PM
should no MVCE and why isn't this code working be slightly separate close reasons? Feel like the title might mislead a no-code user
 
If you are referring to the question you just posted, for me it is unclear/too-broad/no mcve
 
@treyBake Then they should read the description, not just the title
 
@treyBake Do you mean with regard to questions which have code (i.e. MCVE) but lack a coherent question statement about that code (such as code dump debug requests)?
 
just in general^
more the literal why isn't this code working questions vs questions that may be viable once that have a MVCE
 
@MichaelDodd what's odd to me is that they are able to force forfeiture of earnings for the entire season -- wouldn't all those earnings already be in the guy's bank account?
 
2:40 PM
@TylerH Not sure how it works, whether it's an escrow or they have the power to recall funds
@TylerH Actually, reading back (don't know if information was updated) it looks like it's forfeiture for that tournament, which would make more sense
But still effectively end his career on the Hearthstone pro circuit
Firing of the casters is still overkill though
and it's extremely rare that you'd see a ban of a year in IRL sports (Kaepernick debacle aside, but that's effectively a shutout rather than a ban)
 
@treyBake so you're proposing to split the No MCVE reason into "requires code" and "Requires explanation what to do with this code"?
 
@Adriaan yeah I think so - maybe it's not really an issue, never really occurred to me before today so I'm not sure how needed it is
 
@MichaelDodd I guess I need to watch the clip (translated) to learn more. I heard about the thing happening and Blizzard doing some censoring but none of the details really
 
3:01 PM
It's really depressing going around and closing a rep workers posts as dupes and they'd rather have rep then a clean site. At least I'll get to use my delete votes in a couple of days
 
@NathanOliver Some duplicates are good. If it is exactly the same solution, I can understand that you are upset, but sometimes I see a post closed as dup with answers which are slightly different. I don't mind them, as they tackle the problem from a different angle, because the question was slightly different
 
These are literaly you put the question title in google and the first result is the canonical SO post. We don't need dupes of those.
 
In other news, there are now literally over 9000 dupes of NPE
 
See, I never heard about raw string literal. Although in this case it really is a dup and that answer should be added to the canonical
 
@Machavity nice
@Dharman same, I have only ever heard of cooked string literals
@Dharman in that case the answerers should post their answers to the target
 
3:11 PM
I love sushi so all my string literals are raw ;)
 
Does anyone mind it if I add such answer to the canonical?
 
I never mind if someone make the canonical better.
That's the way it should be done
 
@Makyen A certain ongoing A/B test has broken Roomba Forecaster
 
@Dharman Gonna put the cannon back in canonical? :P
 
@Zoethetransgirl No surprises there...
 
3:18 PM
@Zoethetransgirl SO seems to be testing a lot of new stuff lately. New user interfacing, CSS, moderators...
8
 
/shrug
Hopefully that doesn't sacrifice the community
 
@Machavity ...our patience
8
 
@Zoethetransgirl I mentioned in a comment somewhere recently (I think under a Shog answer) that such changes would drastically (and negatively) impact a lot of the userscript-powered work we do here and in the bot rooms
at least it's only a month-long experiment. Here's hoping it fails dramatically!
 
@Zoethetransgirl You can ctrl-click on the status text Roomba Forecaster adds to the page. That will open up a popup with an additional option: "Scrape the page (faster) instead of using the SE API. " If you de-select it, then Roomba Forecaster will always fetch question data from the SE API, rather than scraping the page. It's slower and consumes an SE API call for each question you visit, but it will at least have accurate data, rather than the intentionally wrong information SE is providing.
4
 
It's already failing. Has been suspended once due to bugs and Shog just said it is still not working properly.
 
3:25 PM
Yep, that does the trick. Thanks ^^
 
After it ends we should request an experiment in the opposite direction
since the experiment is literally just happening to happen
e.g. "hide downvote information on a question page beyond -1 from people below 1k reputation, but still show it like always to people who have more than 1k reputation"
 
M--
3:42 PM
@Machavity please nullify the last req. OP edited.
 
^the dupe may be a double-r
 
user7437719
Can you talk about burnination here?
 
@TomMinor Sure.
 
user7437719
Good Day!
 
3:57 PM
Just be careful and make sure you don't set the room on fire ;)
 
@NathanOliver Hey, we've been burnination accident free since... uhm... 4 days?
2
 
@TylerH The point of the experiment is to see if it affects voting patterns. Kinda hard to test if score is shown to the lab rats (AKA us)
 
@TomMinor We do have a lesser used room specific to the subject if you want to discuss the "meta" stuff (like the order of tag burns, etc)
 
user7437719
Machavity have you ever considered running for stack mod?
 
4:07 PM
@TomMinor Deja vu...
 
Unfortunately engineers only fix problems ;)
 
user7437719
A fisherman i see!
 
@TomMinor Man, that's crazy talk
Let's not comment on other rooms. We do like to stay out of Meta
 
user7437719
I like so botics room best
 
user7437719
whoops
 
user7437719
4:13 PM
but thats related to this room right
 
It's OK to say you like other rooms. We just don't want people coming in here to rant about other rooms
SoBotics is filled with good folks. Same for Charcoal
 
This room is more for getting questions closed (where appropriate) so we can (try to) stay on top of the incoming questions - or at least, that's my primary use here. You can read all about it on the SOCVR site :)
 
user7437719
dont close it!
 
user7437719
that post is good!
 
@TomMinor Are you planning on answering it?
 
user7437719
4:23 PM
whats the point in closing it
 
@treyBake This should actually be a duplicate of How can I prevent SQL injection.
 
@TomMinor psst That's kinda what we do points to room name
 
@Dharman ah you be right! Didn't pick up on that, my logic statement breaks on the first successful condition :p
 
user7437719
but these people need help. not a post closed
 
@TomMinor That is how we help
 
user7437719
4:25 PM
i upvoted the posts
 
don't see closures as a bad thing - they're in place to stop duplicate questions being asked whilst maintaining quality on the site. SO is all volunteer-work, the least that can be done by the OP is ensuring their question meets SO requirements
 
@TomMinor While it is true they want help, Stack Overflow has quality standards and if their question does not meet those then the question needs to be closed until such time as it does. This is what keeps Stack Overflow a high quality site.
 
user7437719
what did i do
 
4:29 PM
@TomMinor In this room, we are currently not discussing what you linked to, or the issues surrounding it. In addition, we don't bring up issues regarding users.
 
do SO chat rooms provide options for "pinned" messages (aside from the favourite bar on the right)?
 
@treyBake Nope. Pinned star board is all you get
 
@Machavity ah OK.. seems it was thought of a few years back, would be nice to be able to allow the mods of the room to pin certain messages
 
@TomMinor Most rooms will kick you for openly mocking a community manager, regardless of how popular or unpopular those actions are. Tavern has even stricter rules about that
 
user7437719
Fine, off to SoBoitcs then! @Machavity
 
4:35 PM
I already wrote an answer, don't bother
 
user7437719
How do you get 125 reputation?
 
Edit questions @TomMinor; you get a +2 for a correct edit
 
@TomMinor Tom this room is about discussing and coordinating moderation activities. If you are looking for general conversation, you need to find a different room
 
user7437719
Yeah, I got my 33 rep from edits. But you should get more than 2 and you should get it approved in less than 30 minutes. not 5 hours. the edit que takes WAY too long
 
start a petition...
 
@Zoethetransgirl Right, the point of mine would be different because I don't think this is a good test
The argument is that new users are frustrated with downvotes
A good test would be to hide excessive downvotes from them only
 
@TylerH I agree, but they're going to have it anyway.
 
A bad test would be hide excessive downvotes from everyone and pop up a message that only people who are affected in quality control can even see rather than popping up a message that the poster should see
4
 
6:01 PM
While Kali questions are normally got quite quickly without intervention, this one seems to be attracting a reasonable number of answers/comments disguised as answers (guessing it's a new issue that's arisen recently)
 
not sure why that's a bad keyword
 
@TylerH service number comes up a lot with phone support scams.
 
6:37 PM
I'm really starting to get annoyed with all this extra clicking. Do I get to sue SO if I develop an RSI?
 
did you opt out?
 
I can opt out???
 
@NathanOliver what is RSI? Relative Strength Index? Roberts Space Industries?
 
Repetitive Stress Injury.
 
That sounds much less fun
 
6:48 PM
It is much less fun
 
@NathanOliver what extra clicking?
 
@Zoethetransgirl The clicking I have to do on post scores to see whether the 0 it shows me is really 0, or a negative number disguised as 0
 
Heh. All the recent PHP questions have 0 score. I call shenanigans
 
7:03 PM
@NathanOliver Does this work for you?
 
@Zoethetransgirl Yes it does. Thanks Zoe.
 
7:45 PM
\o
 
o/
 
@Nkosi I don't feel strongly about it, but isn't XCode a "programmer's tool" and thus on-topic?
 
@halfer Yeah, I could argue that as well, but To me it walked a very thin line and I sided on the Super User type question
 
Fair enough, ta
 
sigh, Figured it would eventually hit me.

> Thanks for your vote! Your vote has been recorded and it affects this post’s ranking. Since this post’s score is below -1, your vote will not be displayed.
 
@Nkosi Don't you just feel more welcoming now?
 
@NathanOliver That warm and fuzzy feeling you ge.....no....wait,....that's the medication kicking in.
 
9:31 PM
@NickAthePopcornKing I had no idea you played the skeleton so well
3
 
10:04 PM
 
 
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