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01:02
oh... someone is flagging Tim Post: stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/20079248
01:13
0
Q: You must pass an [Assessment] in Advanced Burnination

Robert ColumbiaThe assessment tag seems iffy. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? It does seem to describe the contents, but in an ambiguous and meta-tag way. There are at least three different kinds of "assessments" for which the tag is used: Questi...

 
2 hours later…
03:12
The tag has 22 questions - is a 20k+ user ok with an abbreviated burnination for that one?
03:59
(trying to link to the filesystem)
04:29
@TylerH I triggered more on the why would you do this although the question is more what is the difference between them.
How does stackoverflow.com/q/50960334 get two upvotes?
@JimGarrison two users clicked the up vote button ...
@JimGarrison maybe slightly related ... assuming your question is not rhetorical ...
@TylerH I still think I can defend POB but if I squint a bit it doesn't need closure. So I retracted my vote.
@rene Mostly rhetorical... (sigh)
Oh, I was already setting up my crystal ball and the Tardis to look for those that voted ...
05:27
@Shree I have to seriously wonder what goes through the mind of someone who writes a question like this. What can they possibly be expecting as an answer? Is this a symptom of magical wishful thinking?
@JimGarrison :) yap i agree with you :) wonder what goes through the mind .....
05:51
@JimGarrison can you hold back a bit on the number of cv-pls-es you post? I understand it is tempting to bring everything under our eyes but we don't have the capacity for that to handle such floods. I count 14 cv-pls-es, that feels as too much. We didn't hard limit the number you can post in our FAQ, instead we said something like don't make cv-pls a habit.
OK, I'll stop for now. The unstoppable tide of bad questions feels overwhelming some times. Bye for now.
Okay, bye
 
1 hour later…
06:52
I think soon we gonna need opinions.SE, as advice and opinion based questions are flooding SO now a days
07:09
Morning \O
o/ Morning
Hello
any ios developer here
@VenkateshNani Why is that relevant? Any iOS specific question that needs closing?
07:23
@VenkateshNani This is probably the wrong room for whatever you're wanting to ask. I suggest looking at the list of rooms and finding one that fits what you're interested in. This room concentrates on moderation by users of posts on Stack Overflow. So, if you know of a Stack Overflow Question that's off-topic and should be closed or deleted, or if you have a question about the review queues, etc., then this is a good room to discuss it.
Thanks :)
07:46
@techraf Morning all. Nuked now
08:04
Morning o/
Morning
@MunimMunna Is there an area 51 proposal for that yet?
08:31
@PraveenKumar we're not going to handle posts you have a stake in and specially not if it is to overturn hammers that disagree with you.
08:49
@rene Gotcha...
The situation there was, I thought of closing it too, but when I checked the dupe, I found that the solution wasn't there in the dupe. That's why I thought it should be reopened... (y)
It also seems a bit like a bit of a whack a mole sitution to me with all the hammer-wielders :P
09:25
I know I shouldn't and I know they aren't but sometimes I wish voting rings were okay
^^ nice example how getting answers to bad questions encourages more bad questions
09:52
@MartinJames @Olaf weren't the two of you not involved in embedded stuff? If so, opinions about this: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/369897/…
10:37
@rene Done - also got the referenced SO main Q closed - megaBad.
@MartinJames yeah, I was pretty sure migration was not the right thing and it didn't look awesome either.
@rene EE would have pwned us if we had migrated it:(
true that
11:17
How do I deal with link only answers, NAA?
@NickA yes.
@SurajRao ta
@NickA Yup. Make sure it's really link only though, any clue to the solution outside of the link makes it an answer. See The famous link-only meta post
@ErikvonAsmuth That's the bit I struggle with... Can someone else take a look. The second part of the answer just appears to be, "make sure you fully test it", rather than an actual attempt to answer
@NickA I would start with closing the question, it seems too broad to me
11:24
@NickA Yes, but that makes it more than only a link. You can take your chances, but I think I'd reject that. As Andre said, closing the question is good, though, and since the answer is downvoted it'll roomba
@ErikvonAsmuth I'll take my chances, a declined flag won't hurt
Tbh I often skip those, because I know they probably should stay open according to that meta post, but I can't bring myself to press Looks OK on terrible answers.
@ErikvonAsmuth I generally DV and skip, not worried about losing 1 rep, and I generally get it back by the end of the day
@rene Looks like someone not having a clue about embedded or that specific tag. Otherwise he wouldn't ask/complain. Problem are not if there can be valid questions, but embedded itself being filled with questions which can't be answered by their hardware-related nature here. We just don't have the hardware they use or it's not clear whether it's a hardware or softwar problem. The question he points at could be on-topic, yet has no mcve/is too broad.
Lol, the description on this suggested edit combined with the actual edit: suggestion
11:34
I keep it like for PC-level questions: if it can be answered by someone knowing the platform, it's on-topic in the first place. Of course other criteria apply, too - as usual.
@Yam totally new question now. I rolled back - hope that is the right thing to do.
@AndréKool It got an approval vote as well
Wow, did not expect that.
@NickA This "approval" means that one user reviewing the queue voted for delete.
@techraf How? the approval vote was cast by a 2k rep user
11:42
@techraf Eh, no, it's the edit review queue. They voted approve on the edit. You can't vote to delete there, and delete votes don't have any influence on that queue
12:20
It delayed me for quite a few minutes =w=
Morning
Agternoon
Ron
Ron
o/
@MartinJames: Meta is running in circles once more … :-\
12:51
@Olaf No! Shock/horror!
@MartinJames I just love those "§experts" who can't differentiate.
@Olaf I really don't know if some metas are trolls or not. That stm32 Q. is like 'is it better to die in an auto crash on Parkway or on the i95?'
Ron
Ron
Our machines can't represent the number of 0.1 using floating point types. What a world we live in.
Nor 0.2 for that matter.
@Ron Not another one:( There has been a nasty rash of FP Q's lately.
Ron
Ron
This time it's the elusive pi.
12:58
@MartinJames I don't understand the fixation on the stm32 tag. If anything at all, it should have been about the embedded tag itself. Maybe some NXP employee?
@Ron e dear, me duck..
Ron
Ron
Gimme teh pies!
@Ron Get better machines. I'd recommend using 256 bit floats. whistle
@Olaf lol! Maybe.. If we get a confused Q, about LPxxxx tomorrow, we'll know:)
@MartinJames That would be the STM retoure. YES! Corporate wars! Waiting for Renesas and Microchip to jump on that band-waggon. Too bad Atmel, Freescale, etc don't exist anymore.
13:02
@rene fair enough, we'll see how it goes from here
@Olaf yes, less stirring:( Who is doing those little serial EEPROM beetles now Atmel is gone?
@Olaf Apparently, you are getting 'Itchy' now. I suspect that your bugs have got loose..
Ron
Ron
@TylerH Got metric system?
@TylerH ;)
@MartinJames Well, they were already available from vendors like Spansion, STM, Microchip, NXP and many more. But nevertheless their products didn't disappear, they are just nor Microchip (which is interesting considering MC had MIPS MCUs instead of ARM - I'm curious how long they will develop two CPU core lines).
@Ron hm?
@Olaf Maybe the silicon is the same inside:)
13:17
I am fresh out of Metric, I serve the Empire
Ron
Ron
Lol.
I guess that emuating MIPS wold not work:) Too slow
@MartinJames Oops, I did it again: put my finger straight at the wound.
@MartinJames Hardly, because that was long before the merger.
@WiktorStribiżew Why not dupe-hammer it yourself with your nice and shiny regex hammer?
@MartinJames MIPS is actually quite a bit faster than ARM7. Not sure how they are compared to ARMv7M, though. But the PIC32 were very well performing. IMO Cortex-M was partly designed in response to the MIPS cores.
13:25
@πάνταῥεῖ I cast "Too broad" before I remembered the answer with a good regex
watching a car roll over at low speed is weird :thonk:
@Compass It didn't look that low actually. And from what can be seen, the driver could have avoided the stunt easily.
Yeah
by stopping
And not running a red light
Stale yellow.
Even me making that would have been risky.
@Compass I've watched them do it at high speed. In front of me. Ejected people too :(
13:35
oof =w=
???
Did I miss a topic?
@SurajRao Are you trying to increase the meta effect you mentioned there?
@AndréKool No OP is asking whether a post should be closed... Isnt it relevant here?
13:50
@SurajRao Yup you are right, but the way you linked it here could do with some improvement.
fair enough
Maybe something like: This meta post is asking if a question is closeworthy. Anyone care to take a look?
maybe have a tag format for this :p
@AndréKool ah sure
@SurajRao Took the opportunity to teach a man how to fish spot a bad question
I'm sometimes baffled to see the question quality of some users who have already gained a fair amount of rep.
14:01
@AndréKool yeah, I'm sorry but in 2010 rep was much easier to gain ...
5
Dunno what to do with this question: stackoverflow.com/q/50970390/7296893 essentially boils down to: how do I swap a variable with a string literal. Answer or close? It's so basic that I'm confused.
@ErikvonAsmuth To me it reads differnent. "unclear"?
@Olaf Yes, that's probably best. Thanks!
14:20
@kayess Looks pretty clear to me. But off-topic: "server admin"
@Olaf I think that it's not clear on a programming site... how does OP wants to do that? Write code that creates robots.txt? If so what language, which httpd etcetcetc....
@kayess Too far fetched. Occam's Razor: he wants to edit robots.txt, i.e. asks about the syntax for the file. We already put much more thought into it than OP into the question.
Ron
Ron
@NathanOliver That was a great dupe find.
Somebody knows their C++.
:) thanks. I've linked to that answer a time or two to know what it covers
The other day I was playing TF2 and someone recognized my name and asked if I was the same person as the C++ person from SO.
14:38
@NathanOliver You're famous.
no, he's Nathan
I'll show myself out now
lol
lol
dad jokes are never far away when gunr is in the room
very true
I'm waiting for a deployment to finish, so I've got nothing better to do
@gunr2171 I have found an error: isgunrinameeting.xyz
(-:
14:46
oh, hum
oh, I guess I don't have an HAProxy rule set up for www.
no subdomain is fine
oh no world wide web
Anyone know if I can see which exact comment I flagged?
@AndréKool If it's been deleted, no
If is deleted I don't believe so.
And if it's not deleted?
14:56
click the link
Ron
Ron
Late blooming and its challenges.
Carry on.
We sure will ...
Ron
Ron
Unless you win a lottery. Then all bets are off.
15:13
I didn't get into a car crash
I did not run a red light.
but you did run after the red light that you just couldn't capture no matter how hard you tried
4
Kill it.
with fire
@Compass Did you pass Go? Or collect $200?
16:09
Any 20k users have a chance to look at the burnination request? 22 questions, 13 of which are now closed or on hold.
16:29
@EJoshuaS give it another couple days and 10k users can join in :-)
@TylerH Gonna have to anyways. Some are not 20k-able
@Compass Did the doppler shift make it look green?
@EJoshuaS lol, 29k and has fundamentally missed the basic principles of OO :(
@TylerH The tag qualifies for abbreviated burnination with buy-in from a trusted user
@EJoshuaS ah, I thought you were talking specifically about handling the closed questions
@EJoshuaS I had a quick look at the Q's on the tag. They are all bad and 'assessment' means next-to-nothing. I would buy in to it.
16:48
There's several 20k-ers with 1-2 deletes on them if anyone wants to knock a few down
@TylerH There's a couple of 10k eligible in there btw
@Machavity I have voted on all the 10k eligible ones already
@EJoshuaS 15 questions left. 7 open
17:05
@MunimMunna Looks like an improvement to me; approved
comments such as "thanks" should be removed from posts
When burninating, are we allowed to edit out the bad tag from those questions that don't have enough dv for deletion?
@MartinJames only after all needed moderation is done
@rene Soooo.. if it's on hold for obviously valid reasons, but only has -1, we can tag-edit?
@TylerH I normally reject such minor improvements, that are not serious enough to issue an edit, just to discourage people editing every post they see.
@MunimMunna If they are low-rep users, I normally give them the little gain of rep.
17:15
@MunimMunna if there is other stuff that should be fixed you can reject and edit but otherwise any improvement no matter how small should be approved, according to guidance from mods/staff on Meta that I have seen over the years
@MartinJames I would postpone that as long as possible, but yes, if the question and its answers are moderated with nothing left, the tag edit is fine. You want to keep the tag if you want to allow others to judge the q/a pair as well.
@rene Orite, thks:)
@rene yes, so long as Burnaki is down we don't have a way to track questions with tags removed during burnination
@rene It's usually bad legacy questions, from years ago, that got an answer with 1/2 upvotes and are just hanging around, closed but with <3 downvotes. They're just stuck there:(
17:36
'Blog II, The Nightmare Continues' is out: stackoverflow.blog/2018/06/21/…
> 57 employees provided 13,742 ratings of “fine,” “unwelcoming or snarky,” or “abusive,” on random comments on SO
That should be interesting.
@Machavity How many of those employees are skilled and experienced software developers, I wonder? Also, how many have a history of SO moderation? Not holding my breath...
@MartinJames What does it matter? The task described doesn't require any experience with programming or SO moderation
It would be better if they didn't have programmers or people with moderation experience do the rating to avoid bias
@TylerH I accept that point:)
..up to a point.
17:52
@TylerH disagreed
@JohnDvorak they are rating words based on whether they are nice or mean
how does programming experience help inform that decision?
aside from knowing certain terminology or euphemisms
It will be interesting to see what %age of comments with a high snark-factor were posted by OP's.
I just hope we actually get to see the comments associated with those ratings
rather than just "10% were nice, 15% were snarky, and 30% were abusive. trust us"
@TylerH I suspect that we will not:(
@TylerH In my experience, in general discourse, it's common to use flowery language and to try to soften deliveries of potentially harsh comments. In professional / academic discourse, it's common to be blunt, to directly state without beating around the bush. To someone unfamiliar with this style, it can be perceived as rude. That said, I don't have knowledge on whether the people rating are aware of this. I would hope that to-the-point comments aren't considered rude.
18:00
Well, at least the panel of voters is a random selection of people and not some group that could have any kind of pressure placed on them..... oh wait....
18:11
@Justin Yeah but this isn't really a professional environment, nor is it even close to an academic one
it's random people with no guarantee of expertise, an 'open forum' style of discussion
True
If SO ever closed its doors and made membership available via application, then yeah I would totally expect and support some bluntness
because you'd know everyone around should have that minimal level of understanding to even get in the door
I think there's a balance. Being overly blunt could be rude, but being overly flowery is a waste of time
I agree we shouldn't need or encourage flowery responses
but you can be brief and polite at the same time
Yes.
18:16
Something like "Hello dear sir and welcome to the Stack Overflow website. It appears you may have a problem with your question; to better assist you we would like to see the following if you don't mind: yada yada" is flowery and unnecessary.
You could get the same point across w/ something like "Welcome to SO. In order to help you, we will need to see X and Y"
that would be short but fine IMO
Even leave off the "Welcome to SO", especially if this isn't their first week or question
Yeah
I often will add that Welcome message or "Hi %username%" in comments because they are transient and easy to delete/get removed as obsolete
I don't see the connection between adding the welcoming phrase and the comment being transient and easy to delete / get removed
I mean we don't add such fluff in posts
but in a comment it's not really a problem if you are fluffy
Okay. I wouldn't add it in a comment either.
18:20
because if it's really a problem you can just delete your comment later on or flag it as obsolete
and comments get deleted a lot more frequently than posts (discounting spam posts of course)
I often say something like, "We will be better able to help you if you include X and Y. As it is, I can't really understand what you are asking because ____."
There is a lot of anti-rene snark in this room:)
There must be a better term than 'flowery'?
Just 4 more questions open (all of them w/ several close votes already)
@MartinJames yeah, feels unwelcome ... leaves ....
18:34
Just to make the request official
18:49
It's not the last, but everything is -3 so can be 20k-ed
 
1 hour later…
20:00
@Olaf I dread opening that:(
20:35
Hi all! o/
o/
 
2 hours later…
22:35
@MartinJames Well, you did. Not that you had to read it, the title alone tell everything. "I learnd about some buzzwords and my prof just gave me this fancy hardware (V850 CPU - greeting from the caveman!) and now I want to do great stuff."
@Olaf It kinda reminded me of those 'I want to write an OS in Python' posts that crop up occasionally, It's difficult to write something that is not too condescending-sounding:(
@MartinJames Not sure. Se the Oberon system of Wirth and Gutknecht on the ETH Zürich. Just consider you boot from BIOS directly into a Python CLI. That's bascially what the old BASIC (pun intended) homecomputers did, just with a modern environment (instead of CLI it could of course be some GUI). I'm not sure it could be made in a secure way, but for e.g. embedded systems it might be interesting.
22:50
@Olaf Drivers would be fun:(
@MartinJames Not more than always. Actually they could be even easier, including run-time replacement. What's wrong adding them as C or C++ Python modules? That's quite common in Python systems: write performance-critical code in C or C++ as a Python module/class/etc. and the major parts natively in Python.
@Olaf Sure, but the [operating-system] posts are hardly ever even remotely specified. They think 'type stuff and have it appear on the display', I think 'big multi-layered thing with kernel, memory-manager, file system etc'.
Hmm.. I keep getting 'retry' prompts here. I think my Ryanair-ISP is on the way out again:(
[plugs tablet/phone into chargers to cover ISP fail]
@MartinJames Meh, I didn't say thoese questions are good. Of course, everyone asking about this in such an early state and that broad is simply not able to implement it - less design such a system. In fact I'd say about >90% (and that's an optimistic estimate) of all programmers are not able to handle this even for a simple CLI system properly (i.e. create a clean and well thiought arch.
@Olaf It's actually a bit of a pain, TBH, implementing just simple stuff like backspacing and quoting parameters. Then I see someone trying to get a GUI going with just API calls and no framework or form designer ~~shudder~~
23:25
@MartinJames Not really. All you had to do in the first place is to provide the system-functions for CPython and some libraries e.g. to easily run a program (that's actually very easy, becasue all this is already available, just some functions to reduce typing). It already includes all the other stuff. Most easy: boot Linux and just start into the Python interpreter affter login (i.e.: set Python as login-shell). Done. But yeah, I indeed had in mind a whole new system from scratch, just not on PC
@MartinJames Wimp;-) It's also not that complicated. I drew my own GUI layout on millimeter-paper, wasn't that complicated. And for modern GUIs everyone placing GUI elements manually should be stoned anyway. With a good toolkitlike QT, you just write code for the elments and describe the overal layout, let the rest be done by the CPU, that's what it's for. And it's the only way to have it work on verious screens/resolutions/ppi.
In the 90ies I read everything available about the Oberon system, including how the compiler worked. It's really not that complicated.

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