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12:06 AM
Could this be seen offensive or rude? @Jon @Bhargav
@Downvoters ""In order to be a perfect member of a flock of sheep, one has to be, foremost, a sheep"" -- A. Einstein. — πάντα ῥεῖ 12 mins ago
 
12:43 AM
@πάνταῥεῖ I would guess an NC flag could succeed there.
 
@JanDvorak How wasn't that constructive? Can you elaborate more please? The downvotes were obviosly unfounded, and probably solely because a 1 rep user was encouraged enough to give an answer. We all know about these voting monkeys and I'm really sick of them.
 
"obviously unfounded" doesn't sound justifiable. People can vote based on whatever they like, including the fact the answer contains more e's than paragraphs.
 
@JanDvorak Forgive me, but that's just stupid reasoning and I adressed that with my comment.
 
Maybe. But it's the official rules.
 
@JanDvorak OK, I have to agree that most official rules (not only bounded to SO) are widely stoopid!
 
12:54 AM
Feel free to discuss them on meta.
 
user1593881
@πάνταῥεῖ Blame it on my first coffee but this c++ answer is clearly wrong, no?
 
@JanDvorak I know the dupe already :-P
 
Good. Then it is already explained why your proposal cannot and will not be implemented.
 
@RawN I wonder how the pointers would be initialized correctly.
 
user1593881
@πάνταῥεῖ and where... In-place inside a class or in main?
 
12:59 AM
@JanDvorak I still don't see why my comment should be NC though.
 
OK, 2C might be safer :-D
 
@JanDvorak All in all I believe my 1st comment there was really constructive and turned the whole thing in a different direction. My 2nd one was just for kicking them ass. Insofar you may be right, but I believe that's needed from time to time. ;-)
 
Kicking ass works both ways. Signing off. I need bed time.
 
@JanDvorak N8
 
1:32 AM
@JanDvorak Last call tonite?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:57 AM
"Our club would greatly appreciate that". I hope your club has more greek letters than my nick. — πάντα ῥεῖ 19 secs ago
^That wasn't for gathering a mob BTW. Just for the fun.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Club == Keule? Guat's nächtle!
 
 
3 hours later…
6:20 AM
@Enzokie Should this be flagged as spam?
 
6:47 AM
@EJoshuaS as long as he does not post any links, no need for spam :)
 
Sam
 
 
3 hours later…
10:39 AM
@πάνταῥεῖ I'd say NC or too chatty. Not rude as such, but it's very borderline
better to refrain from those.
 
@BhargavRao Got it
 
Afk again. Got drenched in rain yesterday, have slight fever today
 
@BhargavRao get well soon, we hope you can attend the room meeting on Tuesday.
 
@rene Thanks. I'll be attending that for sure.
 
10:56 AM
So far we only expect 7 people for the RoomMeeting. As it is over before you know it, make sure to subscribe so you get nagged a couple of times before hand.
3
 
 
1 hour later…
12:57 PM
@Bugs Doesn't fall "unable to reproduce" into the Missing MCVE category?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ sorry typo is probably more appropriate
 
1:38 PM
@Olaf I sent you a candidate.
 
1:50 PM
What do you feel about Is Stack Overflow getting too crowded? on Meta - I'm surprised by the +6 upvotes (Not asking to downvote!), people actually belive that there is a problem with the respose time on SO?
 
@AlonEitan What does he expect to get?
"Yes, I agree, it's time for The Purge™️"?
To be fair, I think that the problem of overcrowding isn't response times
I've gotten an answer (any answer) within an hour to every single question I've ever asked, including more recent ones.
Sometimes I didn't like the answers I've gotten and offered bounties
But that's How The System Works™️
I think the major problem of overcrowding is signal to noise ratio
 
@πάνταῥεῖ ??
 
The regulars have a lot more impact on the site than the low rep newbs, but it seems like recently the growth rate of the "newb community" is much larger than that of the high rep regulars "community"
So closing, marking as duplicate, and event answering, takes a hit in terms of quality handling
 
@MadaraUchiha If that means "the number of bad questions (contents and how being asked) is rising", you are right.
 
1:59 PM
@Olaf The reason this happens isn't because people are getting stupider, or the problems are getting more boring
 
@MadaraUchiha I'm glad to see that I'm not the only who don't understand what they are asking/suggesting/claiming. I remember that user specifically because I reported the content in their profile page once and got SO to remove the app they developed
 
It's because the ratio of newb questions being asked to number of regulars able to handle it effectively is rising
 
@MadaraUchiha Is this just your feeling or based on some numbers you looked a?
 
@Rizier123 Just my feeling
I have no numbers to back them up
But you see questions like "Why is Stack Overflow so hostile as of late?" and this latest one
 
@MadaraUchiha For the C tag, I strongly disagree. Not so long ago people tried to solve their questions on their own first, did their homework themselves first, etc. Now there is a gaining number of people who first ask to be spoon-fed.
 
2:01 PM
And the trend is pretty visible even without the numbers.
 
I'm feeling the same. Also people get more and more lazy with research.
 
@Olaf C isn't one of the mainstream source languages today.
Take a look at the PHP, jQuery and Android tags.
@πάνταῥεῖ No, I don't think they are.
I think that lack of research was handled quicker and with higher professionalism on our part a few years back.
The very fact that we have this room is proof that the current systems set by the site itself are string to creak.
 
In the C tag I feel like that there are very few high rep users who actually close questions as duplicate and use their moderation tools available to them.
 
This room is to organize more efficient closing
And at first, when I first saw this room, I thought that you guys were completely missing the point.
The point is to answer and help, not to systematically close things
But after a while I saw the necessity.
 
@MadaraUchiha Statistics tell different. Anyway: you did not specify tags; that was one point I wanted to address (although I doubt it is really different in total.
 
2:03 PM
@Olaf Fair point.
 
@Rizier123 Yes there are a lot of reps-hunters there answering aeven obvious OT questions.
@MadaraUchiha Sometimes not answering a dumb question (yes, they exist) is the best help you can give. You know the proverb: "give a man a fish and you feed him a day. Teach him fishing and you fed him for his life". Problem is an increasing number of people prefer the fish.
 
sd false positive
 
Yes, and sometime I feel like i'm in a fish tank by some of the questions being asked.
 
@AlonEitan That's fine. Just make sure you are hunter, not prey.
 
@Olaf I don't ask questions because as you stated, I too do my research - And there's always a similar question answered before. It just makes me angry the implication that the "issue" is in the people answering
 
2:17 PM
@AlonEitan Answering does just encourage more such Gimme the fish questions.
Comments are often enough, to offer them the fishing-rod.
 
@Olaf I think that one of the things we need is better tooling to give existing fish to people who want fish.
 
@MadaraUchiha Dupes are easy to find at google. We all know that the SE internal search deosn't work so well.
 
@AlonEitan: I did not imply this in general. Please read my post carefully again). But answering an OT question is part of the problem! What do you think the same lazy homeworker who got his assignment done by others here will do next time? Do you really thing he will change his attitude? After all he got what he wanted. And don't you think he has lazy friends, too? -> avalance effect. You can only stop an avalance before it starts.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Mmm, I'm thinking less about finding them and more about helping people with the war effort.
 
Maybe it's too late, but then this site has the wrong ruleset.
 
2:20 PM
Rewarding a few points upon successful mark as dupe in some fashion
4
 
@MadaraUchiha If you imply the search: yes. I mostly find dupes via directly googling, not the SO search.
 
@Olaf No, of course you didn't - I was talking about that question in Meta
 
@Olaf Yeah, but there is a relatively simple way for you to find duplicates
 
But then I don#t think those people really search before they ask.
 
@MadaraUchiha I believe I brought that up as a FR at MSO myself a time ago.
 
2:22 PM
I think that there's a problem where answering is both easier and more rewarding than finding a duplicate
 
Maybe one should answer 3 language-specific questions before posting a question until they got some reps for the language/tag (maybe the language-specific reps could be used).
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I used to answer a lot in comments, but now I rarely doing this, because someone comment me about it
 
Flag weight doesn't (ironically) carry the same weight it used to
And aside from a badge for the queues, you don't get anything for finding a duplicate
To me, finding a duplicate is as important as giving an answer.
No one likes to be told to search, it's bad UX. (Even if it is good community etiquette)
@Enzokie Nuked by BhargavRao
 
@MadaraUchiha That would indeed be a great deal. Until now, answering is better than searching for dups. Especially if the answer is a one-liner anyway or one can copy/past from some other answer (even if that's one's own).
 
@Olaf Yes
 
2:25 PM
thanks :)
 
The fact that copy/pasting is generally more valued by the system than finding a duplicate is, is... problematic, in my eyes.
10
 
@AlonEitan He is right. It might not get a majority here, but it really is fine to not provide the information. And yes, there are people who should visit a knitting course instead of programming. Occasionally I had askers being very blunt they just want to make the course with minimal investments; one even offered payment in his question! I don't think they are a great loss to the programmer's community in general and SO specifically.
4
 
@Olaf We both know well how industry suffers from these people.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't care about industry I suffer! That's relevant ;-)) (if it would be my decission, the managers can suffer even more)
5
 
Not to mention that academia often just plain teaches s**t to them.
@Olaf can't agree more.
 
2:36 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Indeed. One word: CS50 . That about Harvard's reputation …
 
@Olaf I believe I told you about that guy lecturing at our local FH (thrice or so ;-) )
 
am I wrong in thinking this should be in codereview? stackoverflow.com/questions/44227889/… A high rep user seems to have answered it
 
@suraj The border between SO and CR is still thin lined
 
I always thought if working code then codereview
 
@suraj Alternatively: too broad (no specific problem: improve: how? Time? RAM? size?).
 
2:40 PM
@MadaraUchiha That's definitely a problem, especially when the user wants to get reputation.
 
@Olaf thats true
 
@suraj Well, I joined your CR movement. But as @πάνταῥεῖ wrote: some people see it different, because e.g. too slow code on an embedded system indeed can result in failure. But that would require more information … wait! that would make "unclear" also an option. Maybe we should be able to spend multiple votes on a question to get it closed faster:-)
@Rizier123 I just wonder by which practical use a >20k rep user is driven to answer such Bad Style questions. With these reps one has all relevant privileges already.
 
You seem to understimate the pleasure to teach something. It is not all in the reps. And if the answer is good and well written it is a value for the site.
 
@Steve Oh, don't get me wrong
The reason I stayed for ~6 years is thanks to that warm fuzzy feeling
 
@Steve Doing someone's homework or correcting a typo is not teaching! If you learned it was, you were/are at a very bad school!
44 mins ago, by Olaf
@MadaraUchiha Sometimes not answering a dumb question (yes, they exist) is the best help you can give. You know the proverb: "give a man a fish and you feed him a day. Teach him fishing and you fed him for his life". Problem is an increasing number of people prefer the fish.
 
2:51 PM
But the system should redirect the power at its disposal (i.e. the power of the users) towards helping the site in general achieve its goals
I think that directing more users to finding good duplicates and less to answering repeated questions is one good step
The other step was taken a while back, the dupehammer
 
@MadaraUchiha I've been already asking a FR for an extension regarding simple typos.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ An extension to what?
 
I would like to come back to my proposed mandator three questions before asking for new users :-) Maybe there could be a checkoption for close-votes: "the user shows major lack of basic knowledge. He should do a test before asking next question."
 
@MadaraUchiha Of dupehammering. A typo-hammer ;-)
 
3:05 PM
@Olaf Just to be clear: Are you are proposing that someone must answer 3 language-specific questions prior to being permitted to ask a question with that tag as the primary tag (based on your prior comment)? I'm assuming that there would also be some reputation level at which asking in any tag would be permitted (not that there aren't people with high rep that repeatedly ask bad questions).
 
@πάνταῥεῖ The rationale behind dupehammer was that 1. it takes a bit of effort on your part to find a duplicate and 2. A dupe helps OP (and visitors) in another way
Letting users (even trusted, gold badge holding ones) rubber stamp a [closed] on questions is something we're a bit wary of.
 
@Makyen I'm not exactly sure how this should be realised. One idea was to add a checkmark-field to a close-vote. So one bad question is free, the next requires a test. It should be for the language being asked about, of course. Alternatively, the test could be mandatory unless the user has enough reps for the tag. And yes, that would not prevent bad questions from hig-rep users. But imo these are negigibble - there is no 100% system.
 
@MadaraUchiha Sure I know, and that's good so. But an experienced user in a language is able to spot simple mistakes or typos quite quickly and reliably.
@MadaraUchiha Here's my FR for reference: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/326250/…
 
As we talked about "do my homework" questions ^. I wonder why they don't ask their tutors for advice.
At least on my old university, they had office hours and we had those things called "telephone" (and those were wired and a call was not really cheap; used them anyway). Maybe the current smartphones can be used for that anymore?
 
@MadaraUchiha I can understand, and agree with, being wary of having a single person permitted to stamp a question closed, but we could get a long way towards alleviating the problem by reducing the number of votes required to close to from 5 to 3. We could also increase the number of close votes permitted to each user. Instead of having it at a flat 50/user, start at 50 and gain 1 for each 1k (or 2k, like flags) rep above 3k. Maybe have bonus close votes like there are bonus flags.
 
3:17 PM
they are hoping for a ready made answer.. A tutor is not likely to give that @Olaf
 
@Olaf They don't want to be caught up in cheating :-)
As @suraj said.
 
@suraj So why do they take these courses after all? How about a nice, stupid marketing course?
 
It's a matter of least resistance. How much energy is expended asking a tutor for advice vs. quickly posting a poorly constructed question? And what's the utility cost to the poster?
 
(I'd add "to sell fridges to inuit", but with global warming they might need them indeed)
 
@Olaf It's a lot easier (emotionally) to ask questions anonymously on the internet than to have to go and ask in person. Also, SO is available 24/7, whereas their teacher/TA/tutor is only available at set times.
 
3:24 PM
@Makyen I'm not sure. If there is a good relationship, one prefers to ask a person. Maybe the problem is exactly the "good relationship". Or even any relationship. I somehow assume that is a bad lesson kids learn from school: don't trust your teacher and never ask her for help. (I also had some teachers I would not have asked, but then there were my classmates. The other teachers were fine with questions and indeed happy if you went into details.
 
@Makyen Especially if the HW becomes due :-P
 
@Olaf I'm not sure it should be language specific. Asking a good question is a skill, which generally translates across programming languages.
 
From my experience with universities, I think the problem is most tutors only have basic knowledge, too. Some react quite heavy being asked something they don't know - worse they start telling nonsense. Maybe that' also explains the problems.
@Makyen You exactly got the point. We have indeed two kinds of bad questions: those only being asked badly ("no mcve", etc.) and the others which are both badly asked and badly researched. A rare sort are bad content, but well asked - we can ignore them mostly.
 
@Olaf You forgot the plain HW dumps, which aren't really rare.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I summarise them under the second cathegory.
 
3:33 PM
@Olaf Yeah, there are good teachers and bad teachers, good classroom situations and bad. A large part of the problem, IMO, is that throughout school, particularly at a young age, there is repeated reinforcement that asking questions has negative consequences (at least social). Part of this is that teachers, either intentionally, or unintentionally, use peer pressure to help reinforce that a student should be learning the material.
 
@Makyen I wonder if that has changed the last decades or is a matter of where you live the school. From rumours I hear, it seems to be a problem of the culture and specific schools. But yes, giving pupils the capabilities to think for themselves and have a strong mind is nothing a gouvernment really wants to establish on the majority of their citizens. Beware of this; they might notice how much they are mucked around.
 
@Olaf IMO, the real problem is that our schools primarily teach facts about subjects. They don't teach some of the truly important things: How to learn. How to solve problems on your own (i.e. general approaches to problem solving).
 
@Makyen See my previous comment. Do you really think well informed and self-thinking individuals are what our (whereever you are!) society wants?
(ther goes my option to work in the 5tates…)
 
@Makyen For instance in india they still insist to stick with Turbo C++ in schools. Can we say the education there is generally flawed?
 
@Olaf That's a good question. It's what I hope our (wherever we are) society wants. It is what a society needs, if that society is going to move forward, not stagnate, and survive in the long term. History is littered with the dead husks of societies where the populous became complacent, stagnated and the society crumbled.
 
3:44 PM
We can't say that - but we all still know that.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Not from that single example, but I don't know enough about the education system in India to really comment.
 
@Makyen Well, that's what we frequently experience at SO. I also don't know much more ...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ However, if what they actually teach is "how to learn" and "how to solve problems" (etc.) rather than just the facts of a subject, then the students will be prepared to adapt to the circumstances which they find themselves in.
 
@Makyen I doubt that's what it wants. I honestly think that's what it needs, though. Otherwise we alrays run into the same traps (If you get older, you start seeing the same patterns of conflitcs world-wide over and over again. It is getting really frustrating.) Yes, it is always youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT6_TQmq8
alrays->always
 
@πάνταῥεῖ At least it's not Fortran or Basic.
 
3:52 PM
@Makyen :-D. Yes, that's right (even if Fortran still has its niche use cases)
 
@Makyen It better would be any of those! It would be clear they are not C or C++. TurboC / TC++ is definitively not C resp. C++ since over 18 years.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I think education has its flaws in every country in some way.
 
And the basics are much the same anyway. It does not really matter which language you learn as long it is not too high abstracting hiding the basic ideas.
 
@Rizier123 Sure.
 
@Rizier123 Sometimes education is a flaw. (as much are such empty phrases (no offence)
 
3:55 PM
@Olaf We don't need no ... (Too lazy to find on youtube)
 
@Olaf Agreed. I'm sure that it's not what a good number of people in power have ever wanted, when what they are concerned about is just themselves, or their family, staying in power. It is generally easier to stay in power when the population is not educated.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Hehe, I was just about to link it, too, but then I thought one youtube video was enough. Feel free, though …
@Makyen Problem is the world population and global dependencies have developed that much it will not work; unless those people pick another planet (poor Mars).
 
till education systems all over the world changes we will have to continue exhausting our cvs :|
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Here you go youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
 
I studied in India, and I've never used Turbo C++ in my life. Weird.
 
4:00 PM
@BhargavRao No rule without exceptions
 
Are there any exceptions to this rule?
 
@JanDvorak Yes, otherwise this rule wouldn't be true.
 
@Olaf Yes, the basics translate across many languages (with some exceptions). I must admit that, for a long time, I've generally looked at computer languages as interchangeable to a significant degree (significantly, but not 100%). I look at learning a new computer language as just yet another language (different syntax, some conceptual differences (i.e. some concepts apply for that language, other's don't), etc.), but no big deal.
@Olaf Yes, that is true. It makes me wonder what the future will hold for our societies.
 
@BhargavRao Interesting to hear that. I really thought it is common from my impressions at SO :-P
 
@Makyen I started with machine code (not even Assembly!), so I got it really bottom up. And I agree, there are higher abstractions, but if you know the basics and how those abstractions can be implemented with a lower abstraction language, you are fine. One problem many people starting from this have is they always think at the low abstration layer, thus mix abstraction layers and that is a bad idea.
@JanDvorak No. That's one of the paradoxons we have to live with ;-)
 
4:08 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ It's not all that common. Most of the schools here teach Java. It is true that many schools in the rural areas still use turbo C++. The teachers there are not that bright to handle the queries of the students, hence they post them online. Perhaps you see those cases as you frequent the C++ tag.
 
@BhargavRao Sure. I'm living in a narrow world at Stack Overflow ;-)
 
@BhargavRao They better taught TurboPascal or even Delphi then. Similar principles, but less UB.
 
(Also sorry if my messages sound incoherent, still have a slight fever)
 
@BhargavRao Get well soon! (I couldn't see much incoherence though)
 
@BhargavRao . youtube.com/watch?v=wyJSc4KlmPA Get well!
 
4:11 PM
@Olaf there has been an action plan by the state govt to introduce Java into the rural areas, but there is a lack of teachers there. (That's one major issue)
 
@BhargavRao I don't hink starting with Java is a good idea. But maybe that's what the market calls for - that about education!
 
@BhargavRao As from the quality and competence I see here I could think that Rosenheim is one of the bavarian rural areas :-P
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I'd actually call it the coccyx of the world (a bit more south and you are at the next anatomic detail)
 
@Olaf I'm not sure why the state edu dept has chosen Java, but guess it's because of the Android market that's on a boom here.
 
4:16 PM
@Olaf We've got "great" industrial managers here also, ya know ;-)
 
@BhargavRao Exactly what I wrote: Learning for the job, not to be educated.
 
Yep. True
 
@BhargavRao I'm under an indian management now. No offence but :-((((
 
Schools here confuse "computer science" with "MS-Office click-her-to-get-bold-text", too
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't think that makes a difference. The problem lies in the word "management", not a country attribution.
 
@Olaf We had 2 subjects, Computer Science and Computer Applications. The latter had such stuff. (Including MS Excel).
 
4:20 PM
@BhargavRao That is bad, too. School should be free of vendor-specific stuff, but teach the basics and concepts. But yes, I know: "should"
 
@Olaf My daughter always complains about her IT teacher and we always have to solve some problems installing the CAD software on her laptop, etc. he's not able to tackle.
 
Anyway, I'm off to Orlais, clobbering Hurlocks.
 
In the school I study in the language they teach is C, but it's surely not Turbo C. Though I have to admit that few things the book had were wrong; luckily I already knew C so I didn't start using those wrong practices.
 
@Olaf Good gaming!
 
@πάνταῥεῖ CAD? Isn't she something around 13? What does she need CAD SW for??
 
4:22 PM
@Olaf The comp science one was real good. The comp applications class was filled with vendor specific stuff.
 
@Olaf They learn that in MINT course
She loves it.
 
@BhargavRao At least it should be OSS, so no specific vendor has a benefit and none a penalty.
@πάνταῥεῖ PepperMINT? Patty!
@πάνταῥεῖ What has MINT to do with CAD? At school I mean?
 
@Olaf I believe she likes guys more ;-)
 
@Olaf Yeah, that'd have been better.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Fine, Sir …
 
4:25 PM
Bit afk.
following a sock trail.
 
@BhargavRao Use your nose then :-)
 
@Olaf They learn everything computer related. Using text processing, excel, CAD
 
@Olaf ikr ;)
 
Ok, now I'm really afk.
 
^ A hurlock attacked him probably.
 
4:26 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ That has absolutely nothing to do with MINT!
9 mins ago, by Olaf
Schools here confuse "computer science" with "MS-Office click-her-to-get-bold-text", too
 
@Olaf I probably got that wrong. I'm not good with acronyms.
 
Fine, they don't call it CS, but MINT. Even worse!
@πάνταῥεῖ Mathe, Ingenieur, Naturwissenschaften, Technologie
 
@Olaf Doesn't all that involve IT all the time?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ But none of them is about "how to use product XYZ" - Product placement should have no place at school! But why do I talk after MS bought the Bavarian gouvernment and Munich anyway.
 
4:31 PM
even when said product is Win10?
 
@JanDvorak I honestly hope you are kidding.
 
@Olaf Regarding the CAD stuff, it's not so much about the product, but engineering drawing in general. We had to use ink pens when I was at that stuff, and I badly hated it :-P
 
I was required to draw perfect free-hand lines at school
 
@JanDvorak With measures applied?
 
By hand. No tool but a grid paper.
 
4:35 PM
@user2314737 POB
@JanDvorak Tough. Especially when it comes to cylinder cuts.
 
@Olaf While I agree that the ideal is that product placement should not be a part of school, it has been a part of school, certainly in computers, for decades, almost from the beginning of the home/office/personal computer industry, if not before. It's been so much so, that how a manufacturer (both hardware and software) deals with getting into the education market can have a significant effect on making or breaking that product/company.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ In middle school?? We never had stuff like that. So which CAD do you use? QCad? There is a free version for that (not sure it is FOSS).
 
@Olaf I can't remember the name of the product actually. They have free education licenses.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ yes right in fact I also voted POB I don't know why I typed OT
 
@πάνταῥεῖ And let me guess: there is no Linux and most likely no Mac version. And you are not allowed to use a different tool.
 
4:42 PM
@Olaf They are free to use Libre Office for text processing and that stuff.
@Olaf Surley, no.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ As long they save in MSO format?
 
@Olaf I believe they use it in the course also.
 
@user2314737 FYI: There is a user script, SECloseVoteRequestGenerator.user.js which will generate requests for you (with a click, or a checkbox). It will automatically pick up the reason you actually used, if you send the request prior to reloading the page.
 
@Olaf In general I think the school she attends is pretty good: mrs-rosenheim.de
 
@πάνταῥεῖ So what do you think the kids learn from this at a meta-layer?
 
4:47 PM
@Olaf They learn how to use their tools at hand. And she does.
 
No, they learn how to use a specific tool and to use the tools given by your "boss". Not to use the best tool for their purpose. And that you have to use Windows if you want to work with a computer.
 
May be a similar thing like with the Turbo C++.
 
@Makyen I have it but right now I'm on mobile
 
@Olaf I was wary to install linux at her laptop :-P
It's not about windows for that generation anyways. They use just the interwebz. Be it on windows, android or whatever.
OS became irrelevant.
 
@Olaf It's funny that you think I willingly do the homework for a student given my background (I started my worklife as a teacher). I was stressing another point. For me, what's matter is the answer's quality and the pleasure to write a well written answer. Always hoping to light a fire in the inquirer mind.
 
4:54 PM
My sweetie uses several computer devices from her laptop, over a kindle reader, fireTV-stick, tablet, etc ... There's not much difference for her how to handle that stuff.
@Steve Yeah! Sometimes I simply have to answer. I know what you mean. (stackoverflow.com/questions/44219363/…)
 
@Steve Can you please reference the posting you talk about? Especially if you reply after some time it is a good idea, so I know what specifically you reply to. IIRC, I did not address you in person, but had a more general response to a posting by you.
 
@Olaf All hurlocks killed BTW?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ No there are always coming new ones in this room. Must be some gap I have not closed yet :-)
 
@Olaf That's the situation when you're entering Orlais land ;-)
 
5:00 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Orlais is simple: just kill everything with a red mark. RL is the problem: No red marks (and no killing). (why do I have the impression you don't really know what I'm actually playing:)
 
@Olaf Because I'm no gamer and you know that.
 
@Steve Notice the conditional sentence.
@Steve That's not how it works online. And not how SO specifically is meant to work. What you propose ideally results in a discussion/explanation - something explicitly OT here. It also is something not really wanted at most schools nowadays either; it could delay working through the curriculum.
(not sure this is understandable; I meant: it delays working through the mandatory list of subjects to be taught in a specific time frame)
 
Have I overreacted? Perhaps. Well, we can say we agree to not answer homework question and perhaps disagree how to teach something.
 
@Steve I'm not sure we actually disagree. Just that SO is not the place to start with an example, because you cannot elaborate further. We are simply not a tutoring site, but a Q&A site. Good teaching is more like a discussion with both sides being open minded, one with more knowledge typically, at lea<st knowing the methodoligy of learning/research.
Today's schools lack this way too often, too.
Maybe one last thought: If a question is not well research and/or phrased (taking non-native speaker into account), it often shows lack of interest in the subject, too. So if the asker is not really interested in the subject, why would we be helping him?
 
5:15 PM
@Olaf As given in my example, sometimes they just got some stupid misconception and blinders. It's quite easy to help them out, and that's even useful if someone else has the same misconception in future research.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Maybe I had too many such "missconceptions" already. Just that: there is a requirement people need to understand the basics of any answer. There is an increasing number of prople learning C from youtube and wondering why they don't work, resp. they can't go beyond the code shown in the "tutorial". Buit don't tell tem to get a good book; they insist that such "tutorials" are fine.
One needs some level of understanding of a problem to know one does not understand a problem.
 
@Olaf You can just push them there. (are you drinking red wine BTW?)
Yvette entered. Switch to "Lady present mode" guys ;-)
 
5:35 PM
v-^-v-^v Breaking the glass ...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Not atm (I'm not drunk, if you mean that).
@πάνταῥεῖ I know quite some women who feel offenended being called "a lady".
 
@Olaf I just wondered about the typo rate ;-)
@Olaf Me too ;-)
 
What's wrong with that? It is at a constant level, as always.
 
@Olaf Same for me.
 
5:54 PM
@Yvette I was just joking (didn't want to chase you away). We had interesting discussions about education and school issues.
 
user3956566
@πάνταῥεῖ I didn't see anything. This is one of my homepage tabs on my browser. So I plop in everything I open my browser.
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao I hope you feel better soon :)
 
@YvetteColomb Same it works for me. I referred to this one: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/37332158#37332158
 
@YvetteColomb Thanks. :)
 
user3956566
@πάνταῥεῖ oh, chat should be at the same level regardless of who is present, except of course @rene we need to be really well behaved when rene is here :D
 
6:00 PM
@YvetteColomb Rene's a lady??
 
Wait, why can't we imagine that rene is here at all times? Then we'd be really well behaved always
 
We were well behaved BTW all of the time :-)
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao my attempt at humour - failed at 4am
 
@Yvette How are things going in AU? It's going to be autum there now, no?
 
@YvetteColomb Up early, or sleeping late?
 
user3956566
6:07 PM
almost winter
 
user3956566
up early :/
 
@YvetteColomb What are your average temperatures in winter?
 
user3956566
not sure, in the teens
 
user3956566
I am wearing shorts and tshirt when I see my horses
 
@YvetteColomb So a T-shirt is OK?
 
user3956566
6:09 PM
in the sunshine yes
 
@Yvette We had only a few weeks "winter" (below 0°) but many shitty cold and rainy weeks upto right now here.
Today it was hot +30°
I'm not really enjoyed to cover up at work tomorrow :-P
 
user3956566
that's hot and it's not even summer
 
user3956566
you're in Germany?
 
@YvetteColomb Yup
 
user3956566
scary stuff - global warming
 
6:14 PM
Bavaria to be precise
@YvetteColomb Yes it's really scary to observe over the years. And it's clearly observable.
But as D.J. said it's just fake, so we don't have to worry. I'm trustful ;-)
 
user3956566
we naturally get summers in the 30s and high 30s, but they're getting hotter.
 
user3956566
oh yeh it's fake rolls eyes
 
@YvetteColomb Yeah, for May that's quite unusual (compared to 10-20yrs earlier)
I'm mainly worrying for our children, not so much about myself (I'm old anyways)
 
user3956566
same. the world is overpopulated and we've sucked all the resources we can without complete destruction. It terrifies me for my kids :'(
 
The Trumpeltier destroys any of the small nudges that were going into a better direction to at least throttle that.
 
user3956566
6:26 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ he's a dangerous, narcissist.
 
@YvetteColomb Dumb persons with power are always dangerous, yes.
 
user3956566
@πάνταῥεῖ I am not sure how dumb he really is - he just likes to get his own way. He's completely self centred, selfish and lacks empathy or care for anyone, including his wife it seems.
 
@Ben Uh, I didn't expect the spanish inquisition here. Welcome!
@YvetteColomb From how he's acting in the public, he seems really dumb. That won't lead far for him.
 
user3956566
of course he's very dumb. But not in a way - as he just sets about to get what HE wants with no regard for anything else - so I'm being bitter about him
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Same we had 33° here.
 
6:33 PM
@Rizier123 France?
 
Small nudges are only fooling ourselves. To have significant effect would require drastic action, actions that the world's leaders would likely not make unless forced.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Switzerland
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels How to force D.J.T.? Grab him by her pussy??
I would even deny to sit in the same subway waggon with him(her).
No, better: I deny to live in the same world with that person.
 
I'm not that sure it is really hotter than it was in Germany. I remember some quite hot summer in my childhood and youth. After all the public outdoor pools were open from beginning of may and we couldn't expect them to open. Of course there were years not that hot, too. Climate is more of a statistical and long-term thing, not a local.
 
If anything should be thought functional in the US democracy, they should get rid of him(her) as soon as possible. (No offence to women regarding calling him a "her")
 
6:43 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ: He will not change, so don't have any hopes for miracles. One could hope for impeachment, but that is not a legal process but rather a political one, so don't put too high a hope on this. If he does get impeached then it must be done cautiously, as I would expect him to behave like a wounded boar.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Why not stick with the "Trumpeltier" (like that) and call this whatever "It"? (greetings to Pennywise!)
@πάνταῥεῖ You are aware "US democracy" is an oxymoron, aren't you?
 
@Olaf Better, yes. That won't diminish women!
@Olaf I'am aware of that.
 
Should this be flagged for mod attention? Looks like promoting a different site.
(not that it is not also rude).
 
I feel I have to buy an AK45 and do what needs to be done :-P
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Yes, since I have found the userscript I've joined the dark side. Still would be nice if the comments didn't tell others what I expect them to do, just let them make up their own mind.
 
6:53 PM
@BenVoigt Just feel welcome! And note we're not actually the dark side.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ: don't even joke like that. Seriously.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Only talk for yourself! With these temperatures during the day, I prefer the dark side.
 
We're just the sticky side of the duct tape to keep the house intact.
@HovercraftFullOfEels I'm not really joking.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ No train wrecks anymore?
 
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