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00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
@Drew 270 a day? Huh?
Looking at the old way of doing CV requests is weird
 
This question seems POB: Best way to create Model Data in java programming as do most questions that have "best way to...". Thoughts?
 
12:23 AM
@BrockAdams The more, the better!
 
1:03 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels yeah, it's either POB or lacks sufficient details. Are we optimizing for memory? cpu? disk I/O? throughput? latency? etc
scalability, simplicity, ... it goes on and on. lots of arguments for each approach
 
1:29 AM
I'm making a userscript creation tool that is completely overkill XD
 
while(['jpg','png','jpeg'].indexOf(a.split('.').slice(-1)[0]‌​) >= 0)) lol create 3 arrays and search one to do 3 comparisons, each iteration of a loop
looks like a Windows Update author is getting into JS
 
@doug65536 Not sure what that does, but I've use similar in Python to speed things up actually. But I use a tuple set up outside the loop.
 
it sees if a ends with .jpg or .png or .jpeg - ridiculously expensive compared to lastIndexOf('.') followed by substr followed by 3 equality comparisons. I wouldn't complain if it weren't in a loop
 
1:45 AM
That all? Hmm, that would not require a loop at all in Python. Just a.endswith( ('jpg','png','jpeg') )
 
this room is so fun... you get to see some really wacky stuff
 
You mean the JS? I think the Python version is quite clear.
 
yeah endswith is great. anyway - don't want to talk OT too much. I think my leeway is running out :D
 
No problem, I'm pafk anyway
 
/o
dead silent here..
@Olaf i was about to ask you a GDB Question.. but turns out solved it
 
2:03 AM
@QPaysTaxes brews coffee for @QPaysTaxes
 
2:16 AM
It still got a bug.. :/
 
@QPaysTaxes Read that as "mmm malicious"
@QPaysTaxes Toe-mato, Tuh-mah-to
@QPaysTaxes Mei looks like a giant snow boot
Weird character design
 
@SmokeDetector I drink a ridiculous amount of coffee... probably 20+ cups a day
I make them really strong too
 
Well, I just spent several hours of my life writing something in bash, and now I'm tired of it. Back to Node.js
lol, I'm writing a mostly pointless userscript dev environment. It lets you compile a bunch of SCSS, HTML, and JS files into a userscript, then manage the versions and automate releases. I just got most of it working in bash, and now I'm sick of working with bash xD
 
user6275986
2:34 AM
Hi, friends!
 
@JacobGray: Ever tried SCons?
 
nope
 
@Olaf got a SDL Problem mind helping?
 
Well, check it out then. It's basically a build-tool like make. Written in Python and the "build-scripts" are Python, too.
@Dsafds: You mean the graphics lib? Sorry, that's not my focus. I'm an OS and bare-metal embedded engineer
 
Nono
Its an Qemu problem debugging.. when executing qemu alone it says SDL Video not working. #osdev telling me to install an X Server. lets see
 
2:38 AM
@QPaysTaxes: German.
But I get the feeling the last years it's more and more English.
:-)
@Dsafds: Sounds like that graphics lib to me.
 
@Olaf No.
Let me try to fix it and i will show you. Thanks for time :)
 
@QPaysTaxes I'm very good at C and use certain gcc extensions intensively.
@Dsafds: In that case, provide a MCVE ;-))
 
@Olaf Ok . Let me try to fix it though :)
 
@QPaysTaxes And Python, of course.
 
@QPaysTaxes LOL . Why do that when you have C++?
 
2:42 AM
C for the embedded stuff, Pythonm for the PC. Perfect combination to me.
 
Waste of time IMO
 
@Dsafds: I'd be careful with such statments. There are reasons for that and it can be less "effort.
@QPaysTaxes: "Backer"?
 
@QPaysTaxes I think in osdev , we already have too much of the "behind the scenes" logic :).
 
@QPaysTaxes Coffee not working? Try tea. Keeps you longer awake, but does not work as fast as coffee.
Start with cofee then drink tea
@Dsafds Which your last question above proves - yeah ...
@QPaysTaxes Ahh, sleep is overestimated. I don't get much sleep either, but still look like 87.
:-)
@Dsafds: Just to state that clear: willful (thanks@QPaysTaxes;-) ignorance is imo one of the worst attitudes.
@QPaysTaxes As long you are not spelling baldly, it's fine for you
 
Did it!
:) :) :) :)
:)
 
2:50 AM
@QPaysTaxes So, which PLs do you use?
@Dsafds Did you read the FAQ?
 
@Olaf :|
How do you guys like coffee ? :)
It dosent taste good at all for meh . Unless you put milk in it
 
@QPaysTaxes: Wah! Why use a copy of Java if you have Python?
@QPaysTaxes Too late, you are on the internet already. And - if I understand this right - you are studying. So you already have something which changes your mind.
Even if you lived in a cellar, it would change your mind.
@QPaysTaxes Hmm, depneds. It should not be permanent. But then, I just disposed half a bottle of Port I bought some years ago. I hardly dirnk alcohol either. And re other stuff: It's not worth the potential problems you get imo.
@Dsafds In a hotel. At home I drink a big pot of tea (some mugs full) for breakfast, rest of the day water
@QPaysTaxes So is oxygen ...
Ethanol has one advantage: If you drink enough you lower your IQ enough to be at the same level with most other ppl. Sometimes that helps.
@QPaysTaxes So is sugar. But you can get addicted to that, too.
 
Dunning Kruger affects developers at both ends of the scale. Really good developers underrate themselves
it's almost impossible to rate yourself
depends on your definition of "smarter" I guess
 
@Olaf I Love Water so much!! But idk about cofee.. it has cafeeine so it makes you short to!
 
Anyway, blame my higher age or not living in a panicked society (so far), but I don't see it that dogged (grim?)
 
3:01 AM
@Olaf you know about the CRT Microcontroller , its Index Register and Updating Cursors?
 
@Dsafds you mean CRTC. yeah. you mean the VGA CRTC?
 
There's no use not to enjoy the few good tings in life just to live longer.
 
@QPaysTaxes 99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@doug65536 No
 
@QPaysTaxes IQ is not the same as being smart.
 
@doug65536 I mean the VGA CRT Microcontroller
 
3:03 AM
nonsense
 
The microcontroller if not used poperly and used on hardware can blast with sharp glasses!
 
it is a CRT controller, not a microcontroller
 
@Dsafds I don't think that's a problem I have.
 
a microcontroller has a CPU in it. the vga has no cpu
:33501786 nope
 
@Dsafds THere is no such Microcontroller. If you insist: please link the datasheet.
 
3:04 AM
Wow im dumb :)
Its the CRT Controller.. my fault for confusing you guys
Anways.. my code dosent seem to work when updating the cursor
 
The 6845 is just a bunch of counters actually.
 
I kinda know what I'm talking about, I wrote a verilog CRTC design
 
@doug65536: Funny, I have some building blocks for a multi-layer LCDC in FPGA here
 
@doug65536 Awesome!
 
3:06 AM
@doug65536 Which hardware?
 
So yea back to my question. If anyone can help identify the problem with this code that will be nice :) : gist.github.com/amanuel2/7045d106a68627e804f4e5067a26fd27
 
didn't get to physical stage yet. passes simulation tests though, generates correct sync and address generation
 
@doug65536 Yeah, I wish I had the time ... so many ideas, so little time. But then, customer projects pay my bills.
Hmm, I don't speak Verilog. Europe is mostly VHDL-area.
@doug65536: As you mention your laptop in your profile: Is that some recent machine?
 
@Dsafds bit 0 of port 0x3CC is programmed to 1 ?
@Olaf yeah, it's fast - nice big 17" screen that is gorgeous
 
@doug65536 0x3CC ?
 
If that has a 17in display, can you state the model/vendor? I'm currently looking for a new one.
Well, fast - isn't that a matter of perspective? ;-)
 
it's actually not totally new. it's acer aspire v17 nitro black edition
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4710HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (but turbo's to 3.5GHz all the time) with 16GB and Nvidia GTX 860m. Runs linux (games) perfectly
 
@doug65536 Oh, then it has no UHD Display?
 
1920x1080
 
@doug65536 i have honestly no idea what your trying to say.. I never interacted with Port adress 0x3CC..
i call this function immideately i finished a printf() function
 
3:19 AM
@Dsafds do any of your crtc writes do anything?
 
@doug65536 I dont know how to check that
 
No, my 9 year old Dell has laready 1920*1200. As we cannot get this 16:10 anymore :-(, I want a UHD and some 1060-80 Nvidia (or equivalent AMD)
 
@Dsafds real hardware or VM?
 
@Dsafds Huh, printf directly writes to hardware registers? Well ..
 
i can inportb8 it.. wow im really haing a brainfart
Let me see what it 0x3CC Is using gdb. two sec
 
3:21 AM
if it is real hardware, slamming back-to-back outb instructions can fail. might need a microsecond delay or so
 
@doug65536 Not if the MMU has been set up correctly.
 
@Olaf mmu has nothing to do with I/O writes. it's not memory
 
@doug65536 IIRC, on x86 the MMU also handles these accesses.
At least for some areas.
 
you are thinking of MMIO
 
They definitively go through PCIe
@doug65536 No, I don't
 
3:24 AM
yeah I know what you mean, it is a PCIe packet etc... but physically, the chip on the card might not handle back to back I/O that fast
 
Those legacy IO-Ports are pretty weired handled in modern hardware (well weireder than they were in original 8086 even)
 
its set to 0
No its not real hardware
 
if it is 0 then the CRTC is mapped to 0x03Bx (web.stanford.edu/class/cs140/projects/pintos/specs/freevga/vga/…)
 
@Dsafds You might have to read back the register to verify or check a flag. But in general, use a queue to handle those low-level stuff and use a driver for the hardware. From the namespaces, this is a direct part of printk. Pretty bad idea.
 
3:27 AM
Hmm okay.. Im gonna stick to updating the cursor via my timer driver
when i write it ofcourse like i did with my previous OS_MIRROR
 
@doug65536 That's why I don't program PC. I'm happy with my MCUs.
 
:)
 
@Dsafds: As a word of well meant advice: Split your project into modules, define clear interfaces and layer the software according to abstration. Otherwise you eventually will end in chaos.
 
yeah, I agree, things like this should be abstracted behind some kind of ioctl interface, so you can make it device independent
 
ok, I'm afk once more.
 
3:30 AM
@Olaf It will be a modular kernel ofcourse.
 
@doug65536 Not necessarily ioctl (that's inside the kernel I suppose). @Dsafds should just study some small OS designs. Minix comes into mind.
 
I mostly split them by what they do . Let me update my repo 2sec
 
@Dsafds Well, what I got from this short discussion I don't see that.
Anyway: AFK
 
it should be ioctl imho - so you can "open" a video card, and send abstract requests to it. what's going to happen when there are 3 video cards and you poke I/O port 0x3xx ? or worse: a modern integrated GPU with no VGA emulation
 
You dont see that? HOw so?
 
3:33 AM
@Dsafds your code totally assumes ONE VGA controller
there are integrated video cards that don't emulate that crap anymore
if you feel like being really compatible, you could thunk down to INT 10h calls
for early boot anyway
v86 code is probably going to be a pain if you don't have paging implemented
for now poking vga directly is okay, but realistically, it can't stay like that if you want to boot it on real modern hardware
 
@doug65536 So you want me to go into REAL Or Virtual 8086 mode?
 
that would be super-compatible until you initialize enough kernel to load a device specific driver, yeah
don't do it right now... it should be abstracted so early on you can load a horrible display driver that uses BIOS, then later when you are all initialized, load a real driver for the display device
 
ok @doug65536 , i just git not gud... i compltely screwed up now... Let me fix this git thingy , and i will be thinking over that at sleep
@QPaysTaxes BIOS? That is normally implemented by the hardware
@doug65536 Ahh !
Yeah @doug65536 your very right
This is the reason why OOP Rocks honestly and it is abstraction
I will "abstractify" - New Word :) , my Video Driver
 
@QPaysTaxes it's just an API you call to do basic input/output (that's where the BIO comes from :)
provided in motherboard / card ROM
 
@QPaysTaxes Basic Input Output System. It basically does a POST Test which stands for Power On Self Test , to test many stuff . Then it goes back to like Real Mode , normal text mode to be compatable with previous hardware. And then most of all , it gives us bios calls if we are in real or virtual 8086 mode :)
 
3:41 AM
it also does the bootstrap and early startup, so it has a second meaning: the motherboard configuration UI is provided by the BIOS's bootstrap (hit Del for Setup thingy)
 
Wow .. these multiple branches really help you in becoming good at git ... getting gud at git.
@QPaysTaxes GIT GUD!
 
yeah, git is amazing
the docs are worth murdering someone over, but the program is amazing
have you seen the funny git documentation generator?
 
@doug65536 yes! My BoneOS Partner is helping me a lot on git to
@doug65536 No may you link ? :D
 
the real docs are terminology soup like that
 
@doug65536 one of the ways i honestly learn programs like these are
By experimenting and seeing whats up
i have messud up like 6 times on BoneOS Github :D ... branches were the first time , i usually just do git add . .. git commit -m "Stuff.." , and git push origin master
@SmokeDetector Wow..
 
4:09 AM
@QPaysTaxes How was it
You liked it?
I don't even remember what the movie was like
Too many
It was a pretty good film
Although I'm not usually interested in animations
What're you majoring in?
nice
:(
I don't know what I'll major in
:P
 
4:28 AM
Night Everyone :)
 
@Dsafds Night!
 
Night @Dsafds
 
What the heck ^^ ?!
> Nothing at all. I was hoping someone could point me to something similar, as I have no clue how it's being done.
^ Resource request?
I'm talking to no one o_o
 
4:52 AM
@AndrewLi: Unclear? Too broad?
 
@Olaf Which one
 
Toss a coin (but beware of QPaysTaxes, he lets them stick at the edge.
:-)
 
@Olaf A three sided coin?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:08 AM
I only regret that I have but one flag to give
 
6:41 AM
toString() ?
"What's a good name for a word that gets the string form of something? Analogous to str in Python or to_s in Ruby".toClarified() ;)
Of course :)
 
get string() { return 'wat'; } ?
 
That's a family of languages I've no experience with
 
I probably don't understand the question.
 
If a moderator hops in, please check my meta.so flag on the godaddy burn
 
6:56 AM
@AndrewLi every coin has three sides :-)
think about it!
night @QPaysTaxes.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:17 AM
@Drew another one for your hammer ^^
 
9:50 AM
@Yam Voted to reopen. It's a perfectly answerable question now.
 
10:11 AM
flagging a gibberish answer as "Gibberish" was declined? :(
 
@doug65536 Mods are sometimes inconsistent with handling those, but which post do you mean?
I imagine all mods on SO agree that gibberish should be flagged as abusive.
 
it's removed now. so declined and removed anyway?
 
@doug65536 Did Smokey catch it?
 
is asdfasdfadfasdffdsasdasdffdsd doesnt work adkjfhasdfhasdfhkafhkadf "low quality?"
 
@doug65536 That the content of the whole answer?
 
10:14 AM
pretty much. but worse and longer
 
Hmm, I wouldn't risk a red flag on that, but flag it as NAA . . .
Oh wait, longer?
 
yeah about 6 lines of total crap with "doesn't work" interspersed
mod was mad that I put "gibberish!" as flag reason?
 
Don't think so.
 
idk about you but defacing a question with random garbage answer is worse than VLQ
 
I mean, people assume a lot of feelings where there is none.
Big deal, it's just a declined flag.
Everyone gets those.
 
10:17 AM
so 5000 A's in a row is just VLQ?
 
@doug65536 We do flag gibberish as abusive, and it's always marked as helpful.
@doug65536 If the only thing the answer contain is those A's, no, it's abusive.
 
probably the worst crap I have ever flagged: Gibberish! – doug65536 6 hours ago declined - Using standard flags helps us prioritize problems and resolve them faster. Please familiarize yourself with the list of standard flags: see What is Flagging?
no big deal, just irks me that it was declined
 
Oh, so you mod-flagged!
You used the custom flag reason. You should've used "rude/abusive"
They declined it so you flag correctly next time
That's how I learned to flag correctly anyway.
 
is that what happened? I picked mod intervention?
 
@doug65536 Yes. If you typed something in the flag reason, you used the custom flag reason.
That's for more serious, harder to detect things.
Like when you suspect sock-puppetry.
 
10:25 AM
ok
 
Or coordinated spam that doesn't get caught.
 
10:59 AM
Plop!
 
Blob!
 
dold!
 
cloc!
 
floc!
train wrecker
 
11:10 AM
=D
 
11:41 AM
@doug65536 Please do avoid posting your own posts in such a way around here as it can be perceived as advertisement / asking for upvotes.
 
not asking for votes
 
I know, but do be mindful that readers of the transcript might not be aware of that =)
@doug65536 Aaaalso don't attract negative attention to posts unless they need active moderation (closure, rude flags, etc). See also rules 1 and 21 from the FAQ.
2 messages moved to Trash can
@doug65536 Sorry if it seems a bit blunt, but this room has a lot of power and we need to be careful with it.
And afk
 
11:59 AM
@Kyll *powarz
Someone put that Palpatine GIF
 
Oh yeah, please do then I can one-box trash it out of irony
=p
 
12:51 PM
Blob
 
1:17 PM
Um, what do we do with this xD stackoverflow.com/questions/40059386/…
 
\o/
 
The user posted a question, then another user apparently posted the code accompanying the question, which I assume means they are the same user
 
1:34 PM
So my rep graph change its minimum X-value. Not as pretty now :(
 
which graph?
 
2:01 PM
@JacobGray just close, based on a single Q/A it is a bit hard to jump to conclusions
 
Jumps to conclusions
I can do this better than everyone. Panting I should go to kangaroo Olympics games.
 
cleanup of 500 old link-only answers is almost completed: "down from 118 to 11 in the 4th week". But have to admit I still can't figure how you SOCVR guys do that. I was able to figure some things that helped to drive it but most of what I observed looked like magic. :) Anyway thanks a lot to all who participated, your effort made this cleanup smooth and fun. As far as I can tell it made Internet a little bit better
 
@gnat This chat runs on plops.
That's the magic.
 
@Rubisco oh I see! Plop!
 
Does the notice that appear after a spam post is deleted also appear for abusive thingies?
 
2:12 PM
@JacobGray The answer doesn't seem to answer the direct question. It doesn't even target the same id.
 
2:24 PM
@rene The question currently has 3 votes for No MCVE and 1 vote for Too Broad, which seems strange to me because it contains everything that is needed to answer it, and the obvious answer is very short.
 
@gnat In the closed remaining ones, I think some can be left alone like this one
 
@NisseEngström no mcve is wrong I think. Too broad holds IMHO but I retracted anyway. Wondering then if the question needs a touch-up?
@Rubisco yes, spam and abusive are almost in the same boat. Spam flags drive SpamRam, where abusive flags do not. Rest of the handling of flags is the same
 
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