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8:00 AM
Rebol woke up. @rgchris is absolutely killing with these pretty source code things. @BrianH and @earl and @Ladislav are geeking out over all the things that irritated them for so many years they can finally fix....
 
This was my concept for tab panels (reworking IOS entry screen):
 
@rgchris That's pretty... is it just a drawing?
 
Wow, nice! I may have a look at the source again and update it to make the UI a bit prettier. It sucks now.
 
Kindof, I'd mapped it out with Rebol faces in mind.
 
very mac like
 
8:02 AM
It was intended to cross Mac/Windows.
The scroll bars are real!
 
I tried to do similar buttons on Rebgui but it's tricky because the resolution is 4x lower than in vid!
and resizing is a pig
 
Was a progression from this actual look:
But the world's moved on, I think it would need a little more texture.
 
@rgchris What's missing here, I think, is MRX3 oxide.
 
Ella ?
 
8:07 AM
@HostileFork Pow!
 
@GrahamChiu It's an old ad, it's supposed to be... funny I think. An ex-girlfriend of mine worked for Meyer Sound and if you wanted to piss her off, say something about vinyl or tube amps having warmth... and she would go into a biting rant about how if you want distortion, people can give you any distortion you want, that's trivial...
And I'd go "yup yup, preaching to the choir here."
 
Hmm
 
@GrahamChiu My Blue mockup was for RebGUI, but is at odds with the ethos: absolute minimalism.
 
Neil Young was saying something recently about mp3s
travesty etc. He is on a mission to save music
 
I think the only piece of code I produced that made its way (at one point) into RebGUI was the [>] style arrow.
Sigh, I did so many mockups back in the day, so very little to show for it.
 
8:11 AM
@GrahamChiu Well it really does a number on the transients, but there've been studies proving that kids today are nostalgic for it or they get acclimated to that precise form of distortion... bear in mind that it was all tuned for Tom's Diner..‌​.a Susanne Vega song, no joke. I'll let you Google the mother of the JPEG if you are into NSFW stuff.
@GrahamChiu "Not safe for wife" in your case I guess. :-P
A much older (obviously) Ms. Lenna went to an image processing conference, signed autographs and such, I think this is interesting when you think about the forces that shape the world and formats around us...
I kind of want Rebol's choices to be less random, hence my arguments about what to binary! on an integer should do. I'm big on futureproofing.
And I think my idea, combined with a proper native for pad will fix any concerns anyone has. And integer should be a bignum.
 
8:26 AM
I just realised how we can double the apparent number of users here.
 
@GrahamChiu Fake accounts? Ponzi schemes? I'm listening. :-P
 
Have to wait till tomorrow to find a white pole
 
@GrahamChiu Cutting the icons in half is cheating.
 
apparently not
 
@GrahamChiu I told you what my dad does for pay now... post Ph.D microbio immunology...
 
8:30 AM
stalk contract bridge players ?
 
@GrahamChiu :)
 
@GrahamChiu Catches cheaters, daily, yup. :-)
In my blood.
@GrahamChiu quick Q, how many people in the room got your pole comment besides me?
 
zero?
 
@GrahamChiu Points. Yes, but.
@GrahamChiu Now you know why I'm single. You also know why I'm ready to leave.
I bought the fucking blood pressure monitor anyway.
Haven't used it. It's there, though.
They sell it with a sticker on the face. Know what the sticker says?
It's faux LCD print, but it's a sticker.
 
think you told me before
 
8:36 AM
I didn't tell you what they printed.
 
120/80 ?
batteries not included?
 
135/85. It has an AC adapter.
You were close enough.
 
@HostileFork Interesting ... I don't think I've seen home units with mains power
 
@GrahamChiu, for the record: I've not received a response from Steven Solie yet. I guess he's busy right now.
 
@Henrik not sure if that's good ....
 
8:38 AM
@pekr hey, um, I think @KK. had a question and you could give a good answer, I know it sucks, I'm sorry
 
Maybe @pekr can try and contact him?
 
@pekr I'm totally on your side of this debate.
 
Pekr used to be an Amiga columnist. Not sure if this were an online magazine or also a printed one.
 
@pekr but sometimes you "take one for the team" and do a slight unpleasant thing, life is compromise, I hate to ask it of you but participating in StackOverflow Q&A is actually... kinda cool.
 
@GrahamChiu well, his initial response was very enthusiastic. his second response came two weeks later and was equally enthusiastic, so I'm just assuming he's busy.
 
8:40 AM
@HostileFork because g/f's thought you might do a Pestorius?
 
@pekr we can argue about logos later, but I think they totally screwed up by making their barrier to entry be the Q&A... any good sales site is aggressive with "operators are here to talk to you now"... I don't know why they're screwing this up... but 20 points is really trivial, you'll have it in a heartbeat.
 
@Henrik Ok, sounds good then. He's a busy guy ... can't imagine how many Amiga developers are still out there
 
@GrahamChiu You lost me there. Do I need to Google "Pestorius" to understand your comment?
Can anyone chime in on how trivial 20 points is to get here?
(While acknowledging that it's unnecessarily set as a barrier for chat, I yell at them about this, they ignore me.)
 
@HostileFork never heard of Oscar Pestorius ? Fastest man on 2 blades who just recently shot his G/F?
 
@HostileFork I got 30 points in one go, when I got here, so it can't be hard. You just need to pre-arrange it.
 
8:45 AM
(They say: "It's trivial, it's a good CAPTCHA, it's a better CAPTCHA than CAPTCHA." I say: "well you're just coming from a different worldview, it doesn't seem so trivial to newcomers, ever heard of 'customer focus'?")
@Henrik Well tell @pekr, we're ready and willing to help ASAP
But I don't run the site. Note I have encouraged a scrape of SO rebol questions, I don't trust anyone...
 
@HostileFork heh .. and you said I was paranoid
 
@GrahamChiu (1) "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you." (2) "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they'll never have to worry about giving you access to the answers."
 
Like Googleapps .. was going to be free forever ... and now it's not
 
@pekr open a new question—any question. Why does Rebol use one-based indexing? How do you send an email with Rebol 3? I'm sure you'll get points and answers in short order...
 
@rgchris Pekr doesn't like me, this is going to be tough.
 
8:50 AM
I think I'm still in favour though, right??
 
I think @pekr is a good web designer, he's pretty effin good...
But we just don't see eye to eye on what makes a good "logo" or "mark". He is afraid that my off-the-cuff (in his opinon) idea will become the default without other ideas thrown into the mix, due to me being forceful.
 
Better to have such discussion here than the footnotes to a blog post.
 
Well better to have @pekr able to talk.
 
No news from Carl .. have we reached the point we start doing separate builds?
 
I know this isn't Twitter, but @pekr would be trending if it was...
 
8:53 AM
@GrahamChiu @earl's clock is about to tick over, we are shifting.
 
Re Petr: Not everyone has to use every available channel. Re Carl: it would help if he used one at all.
 
I guess we sadly have to let Carl go, and we're on our own, but I don't believe @DocKimbel's grim idea... I think there's going to be a single R3 fork that actually has active development form those who matter.
 
@GrahamChiu: I know that Saphirion will continue regardless of whatever Carl says or does.
 
And then there's Red, which is great, and we have to realize that's what we want ultimately... but it's just about timing.
 
@Sunanda it does seem as if he has his nose pressed against the glass is all.
 
8:56 AM
@rgchris Well @pekr is cool and all, but he's definitely one of those examples of... I dunno... emperor has no clothes.... he does not like to "play ball" (idiom)
 
@Henrik we have to maintain the momentum since newton's laws of motion apply here
 
@Sunanda But this is cutting off your nose to spite your face, another idiom, we need each other and I know we've got some blocks here and there, I just think (and maybe you guys think) that "in the moment" we need to leverage what SO is doing.
I'm not sure how many of you are getting paid, I'm not. :-)
 
@HostileFork In an ideal world, we'd have a fork that Carl could contribute to. He'd be a star contributor, if somewhat erratic. Think what he could do if freed of all the managerial trivia.
 
@HostileFork Working on it, think I'm in a similar place to yourself.
 
@Sunanda Well Carl is a grumpy old man, who thinks he could have written Twitter in an hour, his C code is good if measured by standards from long ago.
 
8:59 AM
@HostileFork SO is good for persistent Q&A - not that there is much REBOL activity in that. Not sure it is so good for focused chat for problem solving.
 
@Sunanda Give us a chance, it was only december 12th, remember.
 
@GrahamChiu Yes, agree. Sometimes it's hard due to work load with business projects, but we're trying.
 
@Sunanda can move into separate rooms if need be
 
@GrahamChiu We will have two rooms when critical mass is reached, but there's a leaderboard for SO chat rooms, activity brings us new people...
 
@Henrik I mean there are people submitting fixes .. but they're just being ignored.
 
9:02 AM
@GrahamChiu It won't be an issue in 2 days. The writing was on the wall, you know what's going to happen.
 
@Sunanda I disagree—I think it's key to get the right questions in there, challenge thinking, etc. Trouble is, too many of us are past the beginner phase.
Or intermediate. Not that we're all @BrianH, but we are settled in our concept of the language.
 
Throw us a bone, @pekr! Anything! I can't upvote you without a question or an answer!.
 
As Fork pointed out, @reboltutorial provoked (in small measure) some rethinking, at least for me.
 
@GrahamChiu By Carl or Saphirion?
 
@pekr 20 points is really, honestly, not any worse than typing in a distorted bunch of letters as a CAPTCHA. It's better, in my opinion, because it means you learned how a kinda cool site works. As per jerry maguire: Help us, help you.
 
9:07 AM
@Henrik @BrianH and @HostileFork as well, I believe.
 
@rgchris I have stuff I'm holding back on because if I can't get what I've submitted accepted, man he's going to hate what I've got after...
He's not our integrator, we have to just say superman is dead as per Doc's talk.
And we have to avoid the scenario Doc painted about lots of forks, we have to unify.
 
Jeff Attwood (one of the SO architects) is making his next project a better Chat model. codinghorror.com/blog/2013/02/…
 
@Sunanda I heard about this, it's a big ""hmm" when Jeff leaves and promotes the "next big thing"
 
Been PMing with Petr on AltME. He says: "You can share my messages to Fork etc., that not joining right now is caused mainly by me being pressed for the time, not that I started some protest against SO :-)"
@HostileFork Jeff had some excellent ideas that led to the Q&A SO site. Perhaps he has good insights into chat too.
 
@Sunanda I will write a coherent and earnest answer to a question for him that will earn honest upvotes if he's busy. It's no big deal. I wish i could just push an "invite" button but unfortunately that button does not exist.
All the StackOverflow people want is for people to understand the model and protocol of the site. It's really... not a big deal.
 
9:14 AM
@Sunanda all those rebol metaphors being hijacked!
 
He'll laugh at the triviality, I assure him, once he's gone through the simplistic motions. Back me up, guys. StackOverflow isn't precisely the "evil empire".
Yeah you argue with idiots, it's called "The Internet", but that's why there's this little game to try and make it suck less.
 
@HostileFork The SO model is a great Q&A one (but with few REBOL Qs) and a poor Chat one. So there are not compelling reasons to use it for REBOL. Other languages have hit a Q&A critical mass on SO. Not REBOL.
 
@Sunanda Well if you're a betting man, watch me kill AltME. :-)
Not out of malice, mind you. Although AltMe is a piece of garbage.
But that's not why I want to kill it. Lotta garbage out there, I don't go attacking garbage at random.
 
@HostileFork Ah but garbage with a critical mass community :)
 
I'd be a very busy man. :-)
@Sunanda Critical mass will die, and I don't know if my project will be the one to do it or if it will be someone else's project... it doesn't matter. I guess it could be Skype, or whoever.
 
9:19 AM
@HostileFork Your secret weapon could be to get Carl to chat here.....May be slightly harder than Petr :)
 
@Sunanda Red will eclipse Rebol, I will place my bet.
@Sunanda If you want to bet against me, let's get out our bank accounts and formalize "success" and 'failure"....
 
is red going to be so different from r3?
 
@GrahamChiu I'm trying to say no. Hence, why we're here.
 
@HostileFork I'd like the REBOL/Red/Etc ecosphere to be large enough for there to be more than one winner
 
@Sunanda We can all win. That's my point.
 
9:22 AM
@HostileFork So, how can Red eclipse R3 when they're both nearly the same
 
@GrahamChiu Because of egos, and people not realizing who their friends are.
That's it.
 
if a = b, how can b > a ?
 
@GrahamChiu They can win by varying degrees.
 
@GrahamChiu Yeah well I argued about that very recently, if you noticed.
 
I'd say it's just an evolutionary path
 
9:25 AM
@GrahamChiu I say... let's just take stock of things and put the puzzle together and we have to let Carl go because he let us go.
 
@HostileFork All win....And we should all be able to work from home. For some of us, SO is not a natural home. So we need multiple comms channels.
 
But the beauty of distributed development is that Carl can be Carl. He can integrate twice a year, it should not stop us.
He chooses not to accept a certain commit? Ok! Carl didn't like it, in his version of the universe that change never made it to "master"
But we know what's going to happen already, we're going to converge on @earl and rebolsource. He's going to scrape CureCode and that's the way it is. It will happen in a couple of days.
Just read the writing on the wall, folks.
And @BrianH is argumentative but not so much so that he's not going to love continuous integration.
We're not as fragmented as Doc would paint the picture to be.
There's team spirit, it's gonna line up, I have faith.
Do I have faith in Carl checking in? Heh heh, no.
He's burned out, his dreams are shattered, let's pick 'em up and make 'em work.
 
Does anybody have some experience with 64bit build of R3? What are possible problems?
 
@rebolek Ran it today, I will tell you that it worked on Cloud9 IDE in terms of booting... I dunno I mean, be careful with things like your to binary! from integer!... but can't give you good warnings beyond that.
 
@HostileFork ok, thanks. I'll better create new 32bit virtual machine.
 
9:32 AM
meta.discourse.org/t/installing-discourse-on-debian/2349/35 looks like a few people have problems with ruby 1.9 vs 1.8 which is one of the reasons I never managed to get shapado working
 
The True Power of Regular Expressions—power without personality...
Potential structure for a 'parse tutorial?
 
10:02 AM
@HostileFork I like continuous integration. I do it with my current patches. If it doesn't work, it doesn't go in.
It's a bit tricky because the build process isn't clean enough, so I have to build and test in another branch, but it works.
 
KK.
10:18 AM
Can someone (maybe @HostileFork) answer this question with Rebol?
-2
Q: A completely free and open programming language

XGouchetWith Oracle vs Google trial, it seems that Java is not entirely Open and free (as free software) as I expected. Although there exists completely free/open JVM, it's hard to know what is a copyright infringement with Java, and what is not. So I'd like to know if there is a completely Open and fr...

Someone tried suggesting D language as one of the answers.
 
@GrahamChiu we're not submitting patches that are being ignored, we're submitting them for community evaluation, and the community is doing just that. We discuss the fixes, we grab them ourselves to test, we run them through the test suite, we update the test suite with new tests. Sometimes through these discussions we retract bad patches. Progress continues.
 
10:34 AM
0
A: How do you write a codec for Rebol 3?

MaxVI just noticed that system/catalog/codecs is removed from Rebol 3; so I suppose that the feature was removed after 31-Mar-2009. >> ? system/catalog SYSTEM/CATALOG is an object of value: datatypes block! length: 56 actions block! length: 56 natives block! l...

 
We have a bit of a backlog of tickets that were too difficult back in the old project, but many hands make light work. We've been doing quite a lot, actually. I'm sure Carl would be interested when gets the time to check in, but with a properly organized project there's no reason to get stopped by such a bottleneck. If anything, the main limiting factor is our day jobs.
 
10:52 AM
0
A: How do you write a codec for Rebol 3?

pekrCodecs were imo in highly non-finished state. I proposed some kind of streamed mechanism was needed, IIRC Carl understood the need, but the solution was never imo outlined. Ditto for tasks - current "implementation" is far from what Carl envisioned for R3 tasking ...

 
11:09 AM
Cyphre has made some fixes to the prot-http to fix the timeout issue
 
KK.
11:45 AM
@pekr Welcome!
 
Suddenly we have an all star cast! @MaxV, @Pekr ...
The old school dragged kicking and screaming to the new school :-)
 
KK.
 
@KK. I'm a cat herder, you already know that. Don't let anybody tell you it's easy! :-)
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think you should be sleeping at this time. (unless you are up early, in which case kudos )
@HostileFork Convincing one person is difficult. I can't even imagine about herding cats :-)
 
@KK. If you watch a video on YouTube backwards, it's the same video... right?
 
KK.
11:55 AM
@HostileFork I don't think so. Is this a tricky question?
 
@KK. Well I don't think it's tricky, my point is just to say the same information is sent.. whether the player defaults to forward or backward playback.
The decoder is "in your mind" (cough)
 
KK.
@HostileFork So you are saying that currently you are awake at present , and it does not matter if you have slept or are yet to sleep?
 
@KK. Well to even ask about these things is sort of making assumptions, have you ever heard of Jonathan Livingston Seagull?
I'm just trying to help these guys I like.
That is the beginning and the end, you can't argue with me beyond liking these guys, because I decided...
 
KK.
@HostileFork Ok. I kind of had it in mind that asking people at what time they go to sleep etc. is not exactly good manners.
 
Fork, I' "kill you", for constantly teasing me, without my ability to respond :-) You don't know how it felt not being able to respond :-)
 
12:03 PM
@KK. Well @GrahamChiu is an MD and he has ideas of "health" and "illness".
@pekr Welcome! :-)
@pekr You are a very good designer, by the way, your site is pretty, we can always correct each other though and improve anything...
 
Fork - just one correction for what you said ... about me (not that it would matter much). I am NOT a designer, that was your wrong understanding of our chat towards logos. I just selected logo for my business, nothing more. And doing just only 2 websites myself, I don't feel being a designer either :-)
 
KK.
@pekr what is your site's address?
 
btw - read one of your links to how you created a lighthouse logo - very good blog article!
 
@pekr Well you saw me seeking a "professional", I don't want to make it my business either... I said I'd pitch in $400 for a REAL red logo...
 
Ah, I am not on altme, so ctrl + S does not work ;-)
 
12:06 PM
Something by someone who knows their craft, not amateurs like me
 
KK, my site is 2zone.cz and xidys.com ....
 
And Doc said he'd pitch in 100 euro too, so if we get a pro that might be a good logo
 
I would prefer your Red logo being B&W, as your Rebol one ...
 
KK.
@pekr Graphics are great. Love the dog with headphones. :-)
 
@pekr You gotta give me a little credit on the Towers of Hanoi, Tower of Babel, the Red thing... does it not have potential... ? :-)
 
12:08 PM
KK - it is about advertising company (LED screen I own), saying: "So came the dog, and wanted a commercial ... so we created one for him ... as we can talk to anybody" ... we got the idea while having a couple of beers, so having great fun ...
 
@Pekr It's also crazy how angry you were about StackOverflow but YOUR ICON LOOKS JUST LIKE MY AVATAR. What's up with that? Are we both that pissed off? :-)
 
KK.
Domu means demo, kontakty means contact and Více informací means more info rather than the more it shows after translation by google.
 
btw - could there be a Red tag on SO? I can find only Rebol, Rebol2 and Rebol3 to filter stuff. I think that Red would deserve its own QA room?
btw - Domu = Home
 
KK.
@pekr Ok. Got that wrong :-)
 
Fork - I liked the pictogram, flat, not 3D more ....
 
12:11 PM
@pekr Right now I'm trying to make Red and Rebol both "load" and "mold" identical source... I want all the important people here, you being here gives me a good warm fuzzy feeling, I'm sure we'll have long and terrible arguments, BUT I'm saying you being here is good.
There are two missing pieces now.
We all know who they are.
CARL => of course.
And I'm not holding my breath.
KAJ => he's cooler than I thought, I saw a talk, I wouldn't call it "impossible"
 
Fork - it is not about separate chat, I mean different thing - when going to SO website, where questions reside, I can filter by tags. And I can find Rebol, Rebol2 and Rebol3 tag. But I can't find a Red tag, which is imo a pity. So where one raises Red related question?
 
@pekr Well, it's a different tool set. For instance if I think "hmm, when did pekr join chat?" I don't even have to think, I just use the search box.
@pekr and kaboom but...
AltME was very different.
 
Altme is better, of course :-)
 
Pekr joined AltME/REBOL4 on 25-feb-2012 -- easy search!
 
I miss private messages, I miss rooms (rebol related ones, not a mixture with other projects). For my projects, I used even a file-sharing. I do understand the point of being publicly visible, but ...
 
12:16 PM
@pekr The Rebol revolution is going to happen faster if we don't have to make the chat system, the version control system, etc...
 
Pity we could not convince Carl to release Altme sources, or R3 chat sources. Well, maybe we even did not try to ask him?
 
@pekr We're about 2 days away from a "mutiny" (in quotes) just... chill out, we've got this. :-)
 
In fact, I wonder, especially with R3 chat system, which imo should not have any legal obstacles, why it was not part of R3 source code release?
 
@pekr Feel your pain, understand your idea, we're... going to have to imagine a future without Carl because Carl has quit.
 
And as for betting, I just say following - imo Carl is burnt-out towards REBOL related topic, and will not be actively back anytime soon. Now I will tell something offensive, to some ppl :-) - Imo Red is what Carl would call REBOL4. As in Matrix movie - it is - inevitable :-)
 
12:19 PM
@pekr I said the same thing. And you think we disagree all the time for some reason.
 
Re the "mutiny". Dunno precisely what will come, but I expect yet-another-fork. My question is - why not just go with Saphirion guys?
No, you think, we disagree :-)
 
@pekr Um, those are the guys we're going with. Have you been paying attention?
 
no, dunno anything about "mutiny"
 
@pekr I put in in quotes because in distributed version control, it's really just about where you point your master, and @earl has a countdown for when he says enough delay is too much delay.
He's way more patient than I am.
Which makes him a better moderator.
He is less likely to get angry, grab spray paint, and attack the server room hosting the master. I think we should trust him, not me and spray paint.
@pekr I don't trust you and spray paint either. @earl wins this.
 
:-)
 
12:27 PM
@pekr So you talked all big about a better logo than my idea. And okay, I'll grant you, not everyone loves it...some people say it's too "cold".
@pekr It was called "icy".
 
As I said - I don't necessarily like it's 3D nature. Somehow, for no apparent reason, I do LOVE pictograms, for both Rebol and Red ...
 
@pekr Doc likes the towers of hanoi, the red stack thing, do you like that at least?
All of us are a bit split over our Red and Rebol allegiance right now, but I feel like I have an answer to that.
I think the Red motif and logo is better. :-/
More "forward looking"
And yes, Red is Rebol 4, we know.
But don't throw Rebol 3 off the bus just yet, kids.
Maybe we lost Carl, but we still got @BrianH and @Ladislav, it ain't over until it's over....
And @earl and I will uh, try and bring sane development practices in here, somewhere.
 
12:47 PM
AFAIK some things that are possible in Rebol aren't possible in Red, so it can't be R4.
 
@pekr Nice to have you here, it is quite late by my clock, come back and argue with me :-P
@rebolek JIT closes the gap, on platforms allowing it.
 
Rebolek - any example?
 
@pekr Doc's talk, remastered by me and subtitled by KK, covers this and more.
 
Pekr, I remember reading it somewhere from Doc, I can't find it right now.
 
Rebolek - well, naturally, compiled language will not probably be able to have some dynamic aspects of REBOL, the question is, how often do you use them. Also - Red architecture changed from Doc's initial ideas IIRC. It is now mixture of native, interpreted and jitted techniques ...
 
12:59 PM
I have to sleep, but we had @pekr and @sunanda join up in the same day, I will sleep happy. Nite folks.
 
Good night!
 
KK.
Good night.
 
@KK. You're still up? :-) Well others are around, ask @pekr some questions. :-)
@pekr (@kk. is a newbie.) :-)
 
KK.
@HostileFork Its 18:30 hrs here.
@HostileFork @pekr I am a newbie to online chat as well, so please excuse any silly things I do :-)
 
@pekr and be nice, he subtitled that red talk....
 
KK.
1:04 PM
@HostileFork He does not have to be nice, I think he just has to be normal. Everybody is nice here.
 
Fork, I will try :-) And btw - as for my REBOL knowledge, I am a newbie too. I might tell him some behind the scenes politics, that's what I am good at :-)
 
@KK. Well he is grumpy a bit, but we're working that out. We're the slanty eyebrow club I guess. We give disapproving glares to people. :-P
 
KK.
@HostileFork I do not know about you but your avatar surely glares at me :-) :-)
@pekr How do you use Rebol?
 
KK, I don't use it much nowadays, I am an old Amiga users, I am here because I tend to know ppl :-)
well, not really - mainly easy prototyping of some stuff in R2 console, few small apps, I also use Altme ...
I am interested in getting into Android, either with R3 or with Red. I do owe guys to do some more testing of R3 GUI, I would welcome its new skin. But - apart from my daily job plus 2zone media and xidys efforts, I am also setting-up new photo studio ... so not much time for coding lately
Things I would like to see - Red/R3 mobile OS bindings, access to stuff like camera, gps, bluetooth, then maybe some embedded stuff for home automatition (arduino, beagle-bone, etc.)
 
@pekr Red on R3, it's going to be in soon, I hope.
 
1:10 PM
as I can't do much myself, mainly because of time constraints, I also sponsor Red a bit ...
 
KK.
@pekr I am not a very experienced programmer, but why would someone use one language to write a fast prototype in and then go on to another to write the actual project in? @moliad does it too.
@pekr You are a photographer yourself?
 
well, some misunderstanding here imo. R3 and Red are two separate languages. The share REBOL like syntax, but are different under the surface. Recently, Red compiler is written in R2 (which is not open sourced, albeit free). And what Fork imo does is, that he ports that compiler infrastructure into R3
well, I do some photo shooting here or there, as a hobby. Generally ppl like my photos, but - I am clever enough to admit, that I can see much more talented ppl around me. So I decided to build a semi-profi photo studio, and offer it for rent to others ...
 
KK.
@pekr Everybody in this room seems like a multi-disciplinary person. There are people who use other languages at work, people who are doctors, people who create languages in addition to their business. :-)
@pekr Does it snow in Czech Republic? (I have only seen snow once in my life)
 
yes, that's what Amiga was about - personal computer for creative ppl. Rebol was found out by the author of AmigaOS, so we share some spirit :-)
Yes, lot's of snow here actually :-)
 
It snowed here in the morning
Fortunately it ended and there's bit of sun.
 
KK.
1:19 PM
@rebolek You too from Czech Republic?
@rebolek snow and sun same day? You have really fast-moving clouds there!
 
KK - well, there's bunch of rebollers here in CZ :-) But IIRC, REBOL was famous mainly in France, back at the time ..
KK - fast moving clouds - depends upon what you are smoking :-)
 
@KK.yep, czech too
 
KK.
@pekr If this was not a Rebol room, I would star your post :-)
@pekr @rebolek You guys will have to excuse me. I do not know anything about Czech Republic.
except Milan Baros.
 
ha! so you know at least something :-)
So what country are you from?
 
KK.
In India, people mostly start with C/Cpp as their first languages. What is the first language in Czech Republic?
@pekr India.
 
1:24 PM
Well, the language is Czech :)
 
Not sure we have some "first language" here. But back then, when I was in college, it was some flavour of Pascal. Maybe nowadays it is C?
 
I guess Java is taught in the universities.
 
KK.
@rebolek As far as natural languages are concerned, you will be surprised that here in India we have a lot of languages.
I think Rebol is going to be a more accepted and spread language in coming years.
 
yes, it seems HostileFork will push it to the world :-)
 
KK.
@pekr Yes. You won't believe it. I just entered a room named "Rebol-and-Red" one day by mistake, and have been here since that day :-)
Almost 2-3 weeks now :-)
Just because hostilefork was here to talk :-)
 
1:34 PM
:)
 
KK.
The man is indeed a herder of cats.
@rebolek @pekr You guys been to any Rebol developer conferences?
 
Rebolek was IIRC, I never was ... Almost visited French Devcon back in 2007, but was changing my daily job, so no vacation ...
 
KK.
@pekr Thankfully, with youtube and chat and internet in general, we do not have to worry about not being able to visit devcon. (Nothing beats human contact, though :-) )
 
1:50 PM
@KK. Yes, I was at French Devcon, together with Cyphre (another Czech guy and my former neighbour).
 
KK.
@rebolek Neighbour and programmer :-)
@rebolek Did he introduce to Rebol? Or the other way around? Or from somewhere else?
@rebolek @pekr Which languages do you use at your day (daily) jobs?
 
@KK. well, long long time ago I read about REBOL (called LAVA then) in Amiga Review (where Pekr was collumnist and I was reviewer). And then I introduced Rebol to Cyphre and Oldes.
 
KK.
(I am not working currently, and will in a few months start working for Indian Customs. Non programming job, but hope to keep up Reboling)
 
I use mainly Rebol and web combo (html+js+css)
 
KK.
@rebolek You people were like writers?
 
2:00 PM
I was reader of Amiga Review and I offered them writing reviews about Amiga musical software and they accepted. I had long break with journalism since then until about two years ago when I started writing political satire.
 
KK.
@rebolek You and pekr and all other Rebolers from Czech Republic live in the same city? Prague?
I think so.
 
@KK. No, there are other cities too :) In fact, I don't know any Reboler in Prauge (but I hope there are some).
 
KK.
@rebolek Ok. Sorry for over-generalization. I had only heard about Sparta Prague, in UEFA Champions League or Europa Cup. :-)
 
@KK. no problem :)
 
@HostileFork <I have to sleep, but we had @pekr and @sunanda join up in the same day, I will sleep happy> - Technically, I joined about three years ago, just don't drop in here that often. Sleep well!
 
KK.
2:11 PM
@rebolek So initially, like in 70/80s, Windows was just another OS and Mac was just another computer?
 
2:21 PM
@BrianH <Here, we don't have topics, everything is all jumbled together in one stream, so having to move messages isn't a problem because there's nowhere to move it > A room owner can move messages to another room. That's not very fine granularity, but it is a start.
 
KK.
2:32 PM
@pekr I hope you do not dislike stackoverflow (website) as much as you did a few days before. The 20 point thing is a nuisance but after one gets these points, its good after that :-)
I like it as it is a great learning resource.
You can access lots of content about programming here on SO from google search.
I am almost sure thats why people who have been in this room since some time want more and more questions/answers related to Rebol here.
A lot of my gratitude comes from being able to talk to cool people like hostilefork and graham and rgchris (and about 7-8 more people) and now you too... I would not have been able to have so much exchange of ideas with such good and intelligent people otherwise :-)
 
KK.
3:02 PM
Found an interesting thing, don't even know what it means, but I've never seen anything like it before:
>> karunesh: 'mithu
== mithu
>> set karunesh 1
== 1
>> mithu
== 1
>> karunesh
== mithu
(my first name is karunesh and my family call me mithu :-) )
 
@KK. set karunesh 1 is equivalent to set 'mithu 1 in this case.
 
KK.
@DocKimbel Yes, but I meant that in other languages I cannot think of such a thing.
Imagine a variable that points to a string, and the string is in itself a variable that stores an integer value... kind of thing :-)
 
You need first class symbols and ability to bind them to other values to reproduce the same feature in another language. That makes REBOL languages family pretty unique.
 
KK.
@DocKimbel With the function declaration like my-func: func [args] [code] I guess functions are first class symbols too.
 
In karunesh: 'mithu, there's only words, no strings (just to avoid misunderstandings).
 
3:09 PM
REBOL does not really have variables. It has words. A word can have a value; and that value can be an integer (like 1) or another word (like 'mithu)
 
Doc - it also can make users confused :-)
 
Functions are first-class values in themselves, actually, functions are all anonymous. To use them, you make one (or more) words point to them.
REBOL can be indeed confusing to users with long experience with other languages.
 
KK.
@DocKimbel Thankfully, i am an overall noob. :-)
 
Sometimes a peek behind the curtain can help: rebol.org/ml-display-message.r?m=rmlTGVC
 
@KK. You will have then less issues learning REBOL/Red. ;-)
 
3:14 PM
Hey @Sunanda, nice to see you around here again :)
 
@earl Thanks!
 
KK.
@DocKimbel Hopefully yes :-)
Since I can have many words point to the same function, can I only do this while initializing a function?
I tried doing it later, but only the value returned by the function goes into the function.
>> my-func: my-other-func: func [] [print "Hello!"]
>> my-func
Hello!
>> my-other-func
Hello!
>> my-yet-other-func: my-func
Hello!
** Script Error: my-yet-other-func needs a value
** Near: my-yet-other-func: my-func
>> fun: func [] [1 2 3]
>> f: fun ; value returned will go into 'f'
== 3
 
my-other-func: :my-func
 
KK.
@rebolek Thanks :-)
 
(should be my-yet-other-func...)
 
KK.
3:23 PM
>> my-third-func: :my-func
>> my-third-func
Hello!
>> my-nth-func: :my-func
>> my-nth-func
Hello!
@rebolek You answered almost before I copied code into chat. So in a way you were very, very near without even looking at the code :-)
 
:)
 
O_O
 
KK.
3:40 PM
Hello @Adrian
 
Hi @KK. - I see new faces here this morning.
 
KK.
@Sunanda thanks for sharing a great link. . Maybe I will not understand (or even misunderstand) a lot of it, but I certainly understand what you meant by peek behind the curtain :-)
@Adrian Yes, 11 people in this room at the same time :-)
 
@KK. Thanks .... I sometimes find lofty concepts easier to understand if I know how the trick is done.
 
@GrahamChiu Is the prot-http version at this page the one including Cyphre's fixes?
 

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