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12:00 AM
@rgchris Any updated version of altjson that works with current ren-c?
 
12:12 AM
I see the latest version has lit used, which is not bound to a context
Looks like it was changed to '
but doesn't allow multilined lits
eh, nevermind, it's quote
 
@kealist LIT is what used to be QUOTE (e.g. this thing literally, lit x => x). QUOTE today adds a quoting level to its argument. x: 'word then x is word, quote x => 'word
 
hmm, lit doesn't seem to be defined in my build
I made it yesterday off master
mabye I didn't clean properly?
I couldn't get do <downloads> to work to download a build
```
>> lit x
** Script Error: lit has no value
** Where: _
** Near: [lit ~~ x]
** Line: 1
```
unless I am misunderstanding and you just mean the tick
 
12:29 AM
@kealist Nope. I mean LIT the word, it's a native.
You may want to do a clean build, check your git commit, etc.
 
ah, detached head, but client says I am on master
weird
 
In other news: all encryption is now running on mbedTLS. So that means we've standardized everything to one BigNum implementation, and it's all looking pretty good.
3
@kealist Sometimes, evil person I am, I do a force push. It might screw things up if you catch it in one of the force push moments.
But that is usually kind of hard to time to do.
 
nah, I was apparently trying to do something with libsodium last time
I am a fan of the force push at times.
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE That is awesome
I am just trying to run my test script that is the main thing I have converted to Ren-c
 
@kealist I think @giuliolunati has the latest syncs on JSON in his ren-c-lib repo: github.com/giuliolunati/ren-c-lib/blob/master/usr/lib/r3/…
 
I think I had the latest json thingy, but not actually the latest Ren-C
But aside from updating the json module, everything else worked without changes since last time
no crashes
 
12:37 AM
Good...
 
Errr. Spoke too soon. I still didn't have lit defined. Fresh cloned and trying to build
 
12:54 AM
Not able to build
starts of with this after prep
```
Running: x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc -c -I..\src\include -Iprep\include -Iprep\core -DREB_API -DNDEBUG -DOS_STACK_GROWS_DOWN -DENDIAN_LITTLE -DUNICODE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D__LLP64__ -DTO_WINDOWS -DTO_WINDOWS_X64 -O2 -o objs\a-constants.obj ..\src\core\a-constants.c
Running: x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc -c -I..\src\include -Iprep\include -Iprep\core -DREB_API -DNDEBUG -DOS_STACK_GROWS_DOWN -DENDIAN_LITTLE -DUNICODE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D__LLP64__ -DTO_WINDOWS -DTO_WINDOWS_X64 -O2 -o objs\a-globals.obj ..\src\core\a-globals.c
aand continues forever
 
@kealist Hmph? Weird. I know it can be hard to tell given how much spew there is in the prep process, but did it complete successfully? Those look like corrupt lines.
Does the file tmp-internals.h appear to have gibberish in it around lines 286-300?
That would suggest some sort of bug in your r3-make
 
I downloaded the prebuilt one from the named folder's readme
 
@kealist That's clearly messing up. :-/ I wonder if it might be related to something different about your system; e.g. do you have LF => CR/LF translation on? Do your files have carriage returns in them?
#if !defined(REBOL_IMPLICIT_END) /* a-constants.c #47 */
#endif /* a-constants.c #49 */
RL_API void Startup_Api(void); /* a-lib.c */
RL_API void Shutdown_Api(void); /* a-lib.c */
#if defined(NDEBUG) /* a-lib.c #379 */
#else /* a-lib.c #383 */
#endif /* a-lib.c #388 */
#ifdef DEBUG_COUNT_TICKS /* a-lib.c #405 */
#else /* a-lib.c #408 */
#endif /* a-lib.c #410 */
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Would this be a switch in mingw?
or git i guess
Git kraken is set with autocrlf
not sure if it clones that way, but I'll check
 
@kealist What's happening is that there's some code that tries to scan all the files for function prototypes, and automatically extracts them to this %tmp-internals.h file. But it wants to honor the #ifdef settings, so it also copies out the #ifdefs and any function prototypes that happen between the ifdefs are kept.
Somehow you're getting it to keep stuff that's not function prototypes.
 
1:24 AM
I'm trying to find a repro case for a "granular console" history bug. I've added an assert. If anyone sees this assert and can come up with a way to make it happen reproducibly, that would be great.
 
2:19 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE line 36 of make-headers.reb seems that prototypes seems to be populated, but I don't really find where it is used
```
C:\Users\kealist\Documents\git\ren-cdir\ren-c\build>..\r3-make.exe ../tools/make-headers.r
------ Building headers
Generating "Internal API" (via make-headers.r)
WRITING => /C/Users/kealist/Documents/git/ren-cdir/ren-c/build/prep/include/tmp-internals.h
632 function prototypes
Generating "PARAM() and REFINE() Automatic Macros" (via make-headers.r)
WRITING => /C/Users/kealist/Documents/git/ren-cdir/ren-c/build/prep/include/tmp-paramlists.h
Generating "REBOL Constants with Global Linkage" (via make-headers.r)
 
2:43 AM
although I guess that is just a dictionary to prevent duplicates
 
 
8 hours later…
10:31 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Point is a bit, this is on line 1000+ of b-init.c that now has a github 'description' of "Fix character POKE-ing and SET-PATH!-ing". So how is anybody expected to find this in a pile of sources that he/she is just starting to explore?
 
11:28 AM
@kealist Would be great if you can pin down what is going on. Although it's an older r3, I like knowing what's wrong even if it's not still happening, just in case there's a category of bug it represents that's not actually fixed...but just happens less often...
 
11:53 AM
pre-mbedTLS: 1327432
switched (adding RIPEMD, SHA512, all other elliptic curves): 1437000 (+108k)
switched (just SHA512, all other elliptic curves): 1428248 (8k less)
switched (just all other elliptic curves): 1423592 (4k less)
switched (only SECP256R1): 1404432 (2k less)
So I tried a size minimizing build (-Os) to compare pre-mbedTLS to mbedTLS version. It's bigger than what we had, though to do an "apples to apples" comparison it looks like stripping out some of the extra stuff would get it to be under 100k bigger.
But remember it's not apples-to-apples, because these implementations are vetted and do a lot of things that are considered to be modern security vs. being naive. Which simply takes more code. Also, the BigNum implementation has a lot more features and optimizations. And we're using a message digest abstraction layer and a cipher abstraction layer, which Rebol didn't have before.
I noticed some places where we could do some #ifdefs for things we don't need, and they'd probably accept a PR for that degree of freedom if it were done well (it's not like there's any shortage of #ifdefs to try and make it more useful to people who want less stuff!) But to be effective with that we really should be informing it with looking at the size of the code generated to identify things that are actually on the radar.
Anyway, just wanted to get a sense of the order of magnitude of what things were costing. If we want smaller code, I think it's better to start from this and chop out any bits deemed "unnecessary"...rather than being in a perpetual mode of catch up.
 
1:08 PM
Um, I think the last one is actually 20k less, not 2k less, if the numbers are right.
 
@MarkI oh. yes, then.
So that accounts for a non-trivial amount of difference then. That's the curve25591 and all the other variants.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:23 PM
So... we now have infrastructure for streaming ciphers and digests. Historically the TLS was just going one block at a time with the AES or SHA256 hashes or whatever. But we can just throw blobs of data at it incrementally and then read the results out when done. This means we could do things like get a hash number for a gigantic .iso file without loading all of it into memory (for instance).
 
4:36 PM
But at the PORT! level, we don't really have a coherent design for this. Ideally you could sort of attach ports and detach them to in-progress input and notice points at the stream where you want to switch. :-/
I suppose you would WRITE data to the PORT! and it would assume that when you did a READ that you wanted to get the hash? But when you think about an encryption layer added onto a network port, you want to transparently read and write over the secure connection. So does that mean you make two encryption ports, and bundle them inside your secure port, one for each direction?
 
posted on April 07, 2020 by hostilefork

This embraces the concept of "what space is to strings, BLANK! is to blocks", by taking that notion forward to let a BLANK! be rendered as a space character: >> unspaced ["a" "b" _ "c"] == "ab c" Having a shorthand notation for a space improves visibility while saving on characters (over typing space out as a word): >> unspaced ["x:" space first block space "+ 10"] vs. >>

 
4:58 PM
posted on April 07, 2020 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: Users of languages that have a multiple return value feature seem to rave about it. And it's something that users from languages that don't have it will ask about, complain about, and constantly try to find ways to work around. Even before an actual implementation of SET-BLOCK! existed, I had inklings that Rebol could do them in a w

 
 
1 hour later…
5:59 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Will be happy to test with a new r3 build if I can manage to download one on that machine
 
6:20 PM
posted on April 07, 2020 by no-e-in

On win7, from replpad-js: Then problem with 0.3.40: and 0.3.1:

 
6:38 PM
Travis now offers a windows build platform, which I don't know how much of a hassle it would be to switch to, but would offer the benefit of being able to actually run the builds it makes.
 
7:03 PM
@kealist You can try this build r3-kealist.zip and see if you have better luck. Requires being merged up (there was a complaint in the bootstrap, not sure why it wasn't happening on the Linux bootstrapping builds on Travis...)
 
7:33 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Just getting a bunch of
** syntax Error: script header is not valid: %scripter.reb
** Where: fail cause-error if if load _ do console
** Near: [... make error! [
    type: err-type
    id: ...
] ~~]
for any script with that build
 
C:\Projects\ren-c\prebuilt>r3-kealist test.reb
Hi
I did that with test.reb as Rebol [] print "Hi"
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE That works
is this some kind of crlf issue?
whoops
syntax error
>> do %../tools/common.r
** syntax Error: script header is not valid: %../tools/common.r
** Where: fail cause-error if if load _ do console
** Near: [... make error! [
    type: err-type
    id: ...
] ~~]
 
>> do %../tools/common.r
Script: Common Routines for Tools Version: 2.100.0 Date:
Script: Shim to bring old executables up to date to use for bootstrapping Version: Date:
== make action! [[file /header] [...]]
@kealist Looks like it may be. I'll see if I can improve the error. But it will still be an error.
 
7:53 PM
Cloned it a few times until I got unix line endings
and that was resolved
Build did not go to error city as of yet
Was able to build
so thank you
** Script Error: hdr0: word is not bound to a context
** Where: if then load-module applique import catch either else _ do do catch either else _ do console
** Near: [hdr0: meta-of mod0 ~~]
This looks weird, and no idea where it is coming from
 
@kealist Hm, LOAD-MODULE on something is failing, probably missing a LET or something to declare it as a local.
@kealist Not sure what you're doing different to run a code path I've not seen, but, you can try this and then perhaps we can figure out what that code path is so it gets in the tests. github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/commit/…
 
It's my one test script that generates a bunch of MtG cards
I will try that in a bit
 
The issue I'm having with thinking about LET is that the mechanic it would have that I can think of would be that it could add binding to a wavefront of evaluation that goes inside a block. So while [let x: first block] [...can't access x here...]. That's kind of annoying, and so the way to get around it would be if WHILE consciously said "oh, these blocks are linked". Otherwise you have to do let x | while [x: first block] [...]
Which is nothing that unusual for languages to have to move it out, but it makes it seem rather slavish to the block structures. So when people are designing constructs maybe there's some way to inherit. :-/ But what would such inheritance look like? It may just be one of those "that's not how it works" moments and not worth the complexity.
All right, what was I doing before all of that.
 
8:55 PM
mbedTLS?
 
9:42 PM
Well I've worked on that a bit for now, and it's looking good, but the thing I'm lamenting is that we really just don't have any kind of compelling PORT! design to throw at it to take advantage of it. If I write data into a hashing port, how do I get the hash out of it? Does read-ing that port give me back a hash of what I've put in so far, and does that reset it so that adding more data will give a new hash?
>> checksum 'sha256 "Hello World"
== #{A591A6D40BF420404A011733CFB7B190D62C65BF0BCDA32B57B277D9AD9F146E}

>> port: open [checksum sha256]

>> write port "Hello"

>> write port space

>> write port world

>> read port
== #{A591A6D40BF420404A011733CFB7B190D62C65BF0BCDA32B57B277D9AD9F146E}
 
with all the computing brians in the world what are people doing to solve the covid-19 pandemic?
 
Not going places.
 
that's confusing .. usually we have the word at the end instead of before the data
 
To me, you are doing a checksum-sha256 operation. It's certainly something we have to know when you open a port, before any data has come along.
 
Singapore created their bluetrace.io so that you could capture all the Bluetooth devices around you and if necessary the govt could contact you to let you know you've been in close proximity of an infected person
Israel is doing something similar
But of couse Singapore haven't yet open sourced their app as they're still documenting it .. like many people it's write first, and document second
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE no worse than the mega churches encouraging people to congregate
and I presume to be blessed and cured when they contract the disease.
Given that if you get the disease, and get blessed, you have a 95% chance of living so it's a good bet
I wonder if the Red team have put their vast army of programmers on to this problem?
Oh no, it doesn't run on Android!
The head of Google health contacted me and asked if I needed help from Google!
I guess he was tracking my progress on medicalsciences.se
Yes, I said we needed Giuliolunati safe in NZ!
 
@GrahamChiu Interesting. Well if you were thinking of Internet-influencing the health world that's a good contact to have.
@GrahamChiu If you want to update the download mechanics we can add a test of the download script to each successful build: github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/issues/…
So basically, every non-web build will do the upload and then spawn a headless browser, and try to download the version it just put up.
I still am not a huge fan of downloading these particular builds, but the mechanics are valid regardless.
But more generally, getting whatever "hello world" demo web app together should be on the agenda for headless testing.
For the heck of it I just tried getting Ren-C running on ReactOS. Took a small bit of fiddling but then it worked.
 
I was thinking that we need an app
we have the tools
Bluetooth? I don't think so; that's been done
Furthermore, if you cough and spew virions into the environment, they can persist for 3 hours in the air
How does BT help then?
 
It interferes with the 5G frequencies, diverts the rays, so you defend yourself better.
 
I think a simpler app would be fine .. just record your location, and date, and upload somewhere with your credentials
so, if someone is infected they can post their location over the last 5 days, and you can see if your location overlapped theirs
It's a simple POST of your data
In China they don't need to do that .. their cameras and AI track your movements everywhere
So, you can ask .. was I in the vicinity of a cloud of virions in the last day or whatever
it's not needed so much now as when the lockdowns are relaxed
and then some asymptomatic infected dudes start breathing in public
 
10:12 PM
@GrahamChiu Well speaking of diligence about testing, like I said, I went through a big non-fun time of Travis and Python and Firefox in order to get the ability to test whatever it is that's going on. And I think continuing to push on those methods and to dedicate ourselves to having a consistent set of functional projects is important.
That would help no matter what the ultimate ideas people want to work on... Banjos, Bibles, Viruses, you name it.
 
 
2 hours later…

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