« first day (3095 days earlier)      last day (685 days later) » 

12:18 AM
can now type chess moves at the console
like 'e2 e4 e7 e5 g1 f3 b8 c6`
the console input-hook parses the input and picks out the chess moves
I should probably track who is moving so if we get a "O-O" we know who is castling
 
1:07 AM
@pekr nothing to see here!
 
 
8 hours later…
8:42 AM
posted on April 22, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: Things are currently going quite well with the JavaScript extension. It's an interesting case where we're actually on the bleeding edge of what anyone is doing--and our needs are feeding back into the design of Emscripten. So by comparison to our usual Amish tech modality, it's fun to feel somewhat relevant. The "ReplPad" cons

2
 
9:08 AM
Hello @user11220374 (lkppo)...if you ask a question or answer one out there somewhere on the site, we can upvote you. It takes 20 points to chat, easy to get...
 
 
3 hours later…
11:46 AM
0
Q: Could we reuse rebol2 / 3 tutorial for ren-c?

Stéphane AuleryFor Beta/One relaese of ren-c, HostilFork plans to write a tutorial. Coul we reuse material of Rebol 2 / 3 for that task?

 
@user11220374 StackOverflow is pretty finicky about questions being not "discussions" (e.g. it's not a forum) and rather having code, being answerable... it's probably best to delete that one and to review the sections on what's appropriate before some grumpy person downvotes you...
 
12:46 PM
@giuliolunati Math fix for emterpreter build (in case you noticed there was a problem...decimals were completely broken)
@giuliolunati If you want to review that, to see what code isn't needed, that would be useful... there are some tables that got thrown in that maybe aren't necessary, I don't know all the issues. I just wanted to get the problem fixed.
There are a lot of #ifdefs in that file, and some are probably not relevant to anything we're doing.
But clearly whatever was different about the f-dtoa.c version before, broke floating point on emterpreter somehow.
 
1:07 PM
@HostileFork Have to ask sorry: are there any floating point tests? did where you found the new dtoa.c have or point to or talk about any?
I find it hard to understand why floating point formatting can be borked only on emterpreter, but I am not asking you to figure that out HF, I know you tried.
Thanks for adding the comments to it, by the way. I don't understand how huge complex routines get written without any comments still in 2006.
 
@MarkI Actually I did not try. My plan of attack for the problem was to build an isolated test call to dtoa(), starting from the published version...and see if I could find a difference between the emterpreter version and non. I got no difference. Suggesting somewhere in the random differences, the bug was in Rebol's version.
There's a non 0.0000% chance I caused the problem, sometime back when...when we did not have per-file ability to control what warnings we enabled/disabled in the build, and I may have manually made a mistake in correcting some sign or overflow issue.
Of course, that doesn't explain--as mentioned--why it works fine on other platforms. It would presume my patch to stop the warning was the cause of a break that only appears on emterpreter. Seems unlikely.
Anyway, pieces of code like that are giant black boxes that no one in their right mind tries to read or understand, which makes you wonder about people taking it all so casually copying and pasting it into so many codebases.
@MarkI If you missed the commit where f-dtoa.c was added, it was post R3-Alpha publication...coming from Saphir: github.com/rebol/rebol/commit/…
@MarkI The fact that the comment blocks in random places contain extended comments suggest that the version I fetched is newer, and probably has some fixes. I wouldn't imagine the comments would have been surgically and randomly deleted at those points.
 
2:05 PM
@HostileFork great. I can excise my tests for this fail now.
 
@GrahamChiu Yay. Also could you kill off the stray replies on my Web Framework post?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:10 PM
@HostileFork Thanks, I forgot that. So likely Alpha doesn't have the bug. Still should have had tests though.
 
@MarkI I didn't say that, but if you are interested in the question it isn't so hard to test. I can just pull that f-dtoa.c file and run against the test I did.
It's not really important, but it's an answerable question that will take me 5 minutes, and hey, who's counting. I'll check.
hostilefork@hostilefork-VirtualBox:~/Projects/bug$ emcc --std=gnu89 -Oz -s EMTERPRETIFY -s WASM=1 -DIEEE_8087 -Dstrtod=strtod_unused f-dtoa.c test.c -o test.js
hostilefork@hostilefork-VirtualBox:~/Projects/bug$ node test.js
dtoa: :200304 e: 3
hostilefork@hostilefork-VirtualBox:~/Projects/bug$ emcc --std=gnu89 -Oz -s WASM=1 -DIEEE_8087 -Dstrtod=strtod_unused f-dtoa.c test.c -o test.js
hostilefork@hostilefork-VirtualBox:~/Projects/bug$ node test.js
dtoa: 10200304 e: 4
@MarkI For historical reference, no, whatever it was that's messing up the emterpreter was in R3-Alpha. And that actually only took about one minute.
 
@giuliolunati are we at the point of being able to package the binaries into a phone app that doesn't need web access?
 
That was a minute worth spending to exonerate me on the warning edits. (Well, who knows if they made the warned-about condition worse or not, it would take a real attention to detail to presume correct edits to that code.) But it was only about 5 or 6 warnings.
Test program:
int main() {
    double d = 1020.0304;

    int decimal_digits = 10;
    int mode = 0;
    int e;
    int sgn;
    char *rve;
    char *sig = dtoa (d, 0, decimal_digits, &e, &sgn, &rve);
    printf("dtoa: %s e: %d\n", sig, e);
}
 
@HostileFork don't they vanish themselves?
 
@GrahamChiu I only know the deletion status of my own posts, so depends on what @user11220374 did.
@MarkI The problem only manifest in the emterpreter, which is a foreign platform that apparently no 32 or 64 bit platform of any endianness has run up against yet. Problems would have been discovered if we ran tests in the web build, we haven't yet run the test suite in the browser, but should...I suggest we only do it locally
I suppose the fact that the emterpreter is a really weird platform to target hadn't come up before this, but it all forces greater and greater strictness to the C standard when you're going to build on something that bizarre.
 
4:16 PM
@HostileFork Um ... I'm confused. When I say Alpha, I mean the one Carl open-sourced. I thought it didn't have f-dtoa.c in it at all. Am I wrong on that? Because it looks like your test only tests f-dtoa.c ... but I could be wrong on that also.
But it totally would not surprise me that f-dtoa.c, especially an older one, would barf on emterpreter ... as you say, that's a weird platform, and really weird if warnings are ignored.
 
@MarkI If for reasons of some religious order I do not know of you wish to talk about the 12-Dec-2012 version is of interest, then, ok... but I can tell you a lot of reasons why that version won't work on emterpreter (in particular, #pragma pack and alignment, which Ren-C cell format adjusted to fix: github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/blob/…
We don't really have a version of Rebol from that 12-Dec-2012 that emterpreter can build and run, so all I can give you is the test mentioned.
No #pragma-s are required to build Ren-C (and it supports older platforms in several other bend-over-backwards-ways)
@MarkI By the by, if you haven't seen the GC in Ren-C based on putting "which bits need marking in the cell": it's brief, eh?
@MarkI For comparison: Mark_Series() R3-Alpha
 
4:45 PM
@GrahamChiu Sure!
@HostileFork Sorry, I don't really understand that thing...
 
@giuliolunati That makes 2.0000001 of us
 
@HostileFork now I'm wrestling with Travis about that pip+awscli thing ... :-/
 
@giuliolunati Like I said, it's not the highest priority. My point is just that when we can run the build on an old image of MacOS, that means the binary that results will run on that old MacOS. And it keeps us "Amish". (I keep comparing to the Amish, I doubt there are Amish in Italy so maybe you do not know)
The idea is, that, people are very eager to just say "oh, because of reason X we will abandon how things were" but reason X is not a very good reason.
There are sometimes very good reasons to make a big change, but I think culturally we have accepted jumps and megabytes without really asking "did we get a benefit?"
 
@HostileFork No Amish in Italy, yet well known by media :-)
 
@giuliolunati I have been around to Amish country and gone to their stores :-)
I may not agree exactly with the point they have picked, but I think we are talking about a similar idealistic concept.
 
4:57 PM
@GrahamChiu We can offer an apk base system + installable web apps
 
@giuliolunati I don't want you to worry too much about it, if it's not fun. But I think we really do keep what's unique and different about this effort by trying to resist the urge everyone else has to just say "oh it doesn't work" and ignore why
It's not very fun if you can't build and customize a system yourself.
 
@HostileFork NP, it's a battle I want to win ;-)
 
@giuliolunati Well you came to this with some "religious" beliefs already. :-)
Why can't programming be spiritual?
It is hard, because we don't control the targets... Travis moves the images around, the OS manufacturers move things around.
So I think the most unique thing you can do--in a way--is to try and stay constant.
@giuluilunati It's certainly inconvenient, but, who else can say they can do what this is doing... note that Pyodide Python is as above... a 27mb download in WASM.... that's not including e.g. NumPy (7mb...)
You can't "rebel" against this unless you keep careful accounting. You can't say "oh, this became inconvenient" and give up, and then get 1MB bigger.
@giuliolunati We don't lose that much by giving up old MacOS builds, it's not that big a deal if you just consider it in isolation. But it is like a canary in a coal mine...
 
5:14 PM
@HostileFork (But please note that for me to be religious has nothing to do with battles )
 
@giuliolunati Well, there are battles and there is guidance. If your guidance is not followed, did you lose a battle?
@giuliolunati If we are on old OS-es, and if the pip can do the upload, I don't see why we necessarily need to update to pip3 just because of warnings...because we are only asking one thing of it. So long as that thing works, we're ok.
@giuliolunati We can have an environment variable in the builds which is PIP=... and have it be pip or pip3 and as far as I'm concerned, if it works today that's good enough... we can ignore the warnings until it doesn't upload.
When it stops uploading, we worry about it then.
 
5:45 PM
Since I can do things in rebol on AWS I should be able to replace the S3 CP in rebol but I don't have the time just right now :(
And it's an added complexity to keep maintaining it
 
@HostileFork (a battle require an enemy... and I believe God doesn't want to be an enemy for nobody...)
 
@giuliolunati a write up on how to do this would be greatly appreciated
 
@HostileFork yes, I'm working on that, but every xcode version has its peculiar issues... :-(
@HostileFork sorry... without subtitles I can't understand nothing...
 
@giuliolunati Lyrics not important...
@giuliolunati Lyrics are that someone is complaining: "There's no music on my radio", response in chorus is "Turn the radio on".
 
6:15 PM
@HostileFork I definitely love that song! It means nothing, obviously
When using Travis, and repeatedly triggering downloads of entire systems just to debug a couple of lines, I strongly doubt about my Amish attitude... :-(
 
@giuliolunati This is why building the whole thing with TCC is important. Remember: "be in the world, but not of the world..."
2
@giuliolunati I know it's beyond what is convenient or what any development practice would say--they say, get a new one, etc. To me, Carl was a philosopher... it's not technology-specific. You might argue that most every Lisp developer does a "better" job, except for not acknowledging that people don't want their code to look like Lisp.
2
 
 
2 hours later…
8:28 PM
@HostileFork @HostileFork battle won ? ...
 
 
1 hour later…
9:48 PM
posted on April 22, 2019 by lkppo

$../prebuilt/r3-windows-x86-8994d23.exe ../make.r config: ../configs/mingw-x64-c++.r debug: asserts $./r3.exe C Source File ..\src\core\b-init.c, Line 75, Pointer 000000000077f170 At evaluator tick: 1 Rebol Internal Error If you need to file a bug in the issue tracker, please give thorough details on how to reproduce the problem: https://github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/issues Include th

 
10:04 PM
@GrahamChiu @HostileFork RebolServer app offers self-contained replpad, working offline
 
 
1 hour later…
11:32 PM
@giuliolunati got a write-up on how to create such APK?
 

« first day (3095 days earlier)      last day (685 days later) »