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12:09 AM
It seems to me that if x and 'y [...] should be legal as a synonym for if x and [y] [...]. Only quoted paths and words, but this is common. Quoting suggests the same kind of "you get it in a box" property that putting in a block does...evaluation is blocked and may either happen or not.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:20 AM
0
Q: How to find the first element of a block of strings whose first character matches an input character?

Terrence BrannonGiven weapons: ["rock" "scissors" "paper"] If I did player-choice: ask "(r)ock, (p)aper, (s)cissors or (q)uit? " how could i look for the character entered by the user in the block with word weapons attached to it

0
Q: How to increment element of block after found element?

Terrence BrannonGiven player-choices: ["rock" 0 "paper" 0 "scissors" 0] How could I increment the value after "paper" in this block by searching for "paper"?

 
2:50 AM
posted on January 20, 2019 by steve_god

[StackOverflow] if your using c# this may help.

 
3:16 AM
red> foo: func [x 'y] [probe x probe y x + y]
red> foo 1 2 * 5
1
2
*** Script Error: * operator is missing an argument
@rebolek ^-- free Red bug. Should be 15 (it is in Rebol2 and R3-Alpha... there's a reason it could be problematic as an edge case).
 
0
Q: In Red, how do I search through a block for a string matching a pattern?

Terrence BrannonGiven: player-wins: [ "rock breaks scissors" "paper covers rock" "scissors cut paper" ] I want a function which accepts two strings, each representing any of rock, paper or scissors and then returns the element that matches, ignoring the verb. Example: does-player-win "paper...

 
3:50 AM
0
A: How to find the first element of a block of strings whose first character matches an input character?

Terrence Brannonweapons: ["rock" "scissors" "paper"] matching-weapon: func [abbrev][ foreach weapon weapons [ if (first weapon) = first abbrev [ return weapon ] ] ]

 
 
1 hour later…
5:19 AM
posted on January 20, 2019 by captainjimboba

[Reddit] I saw this as part of one of the latest blog posts: Red/Pro: it is coming this year! It will be our first commercial product and set of online services targetting both individual developers and enterprises. It will include a new backend for Red's toolchain, providing a state-of-the-art optimizing layer and support for many new platforms, including 64-bit ones (though full 64-bit Red s

 
^-- "A repetition of a bad business model that didn't work for Rebol 20 years ago, and is an even more catastrophic idea today."
Oh, they weren't asking me.
 
Rebol's business model was a total fiasco in my book and has nothing in common with what Red will try to introduce imo. Back then, Rebol tried to sell such basic stuff, like CGI support, shell support (call), apache module, sound support, ODBC support. That basically killed it on the server side, as Rebol instead of becoming a glue language, could use only its isolated functionality .... as far as free version is concerned ....
 
 
1 hour later…
6:41 AM
I want to annotate experimental versions of things but have them still be usable. What's a good notation? Is it a good use for asterisk, like "see notes". match*
Hypothetically speaking, say I want MATCH and MATCH*...where MATCH* is extended with special features. These features may not be achievable via refinement, as they may depend on twisting up parameter conventions or variadics.
 
 
3 hours later…
9:18 AM
0
A: How to increment element of block after found element?

sqlab>> player-choices/("paper"): player-choices/("paper") + 1 == 1

 
9:48 AM
0
A: In Red, how do I search through a block for a string matching a pattern?

sqlabSo your second structure fits player-wins: [ ["rock" "scissors"] "breaks" ["paper" "rock"] "covers" ["scissors" "paper"] "cut" ] win: function [player1 player2] [ game: reduce [player1 player2] winning: player-wins/(game) print [player1 winning player2] ] >> win "paper...

 
10:18 AM
1
A: How to find the first element of a block of strings whose first character matches an input character?

sqlab>> abr: "p" == "p" >> parse weapons [some [into [x: abr (print x)] | skip] ] paper or >> parse weapons [collect some [into [x: abr keep (x)] | skip] ] == ["paper"]

 
10:48 AM
0
A: How to increment element of block after found element?

endo64You can also keep a reference to the positions of the values in the block to change them later: player-choices: ["rock" 0 "paper" 0 "scissors" 0] rock-pos: find/tail player-choices "rock" paper-pos: find/tail player-choices "paper" scissors-pos: find/tail player-choices "scissors" change paper-...

 
 
2 hours later…
1:03 PM
Me neither ;-)
This will never be able to compete in a corporate environment with all industry standard stuff (even Visual Studio etc) that no management will abandon ever, because it is not proven and it is not best 'industry practise'. I like to refer to http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html still very valid today.
Better business model would be make it an alternative to use for many, for like dynamic webpage building with database support to replace php and mysql stuff. Then make money providing/selling courses and certificates.
That nasty rebmake thing is like the snake that is eating itself from the tail end. Certainly not straight to split it into nice overseeable chunks.
 
1:38 PM
@iArnold I thought it was rather large for its purpose, and it lacked any clear design documentation and overview. I think that having something written up somewhere explaining why something is the way it is, what it does or doesn't do, etc. is very important.
Having had to sort through it now a while, I don't think it's all that bad. It's still much more code than it should be. The positive aspect being that Ren-C gets exercise on seeing how much it can cut into such a thing. So it's not time spent fiddling with CMake or whatever.
But if you don't like it and just think it's a giant intimidating puzzle, I would dis-recommend messing with it. If you really feel compelled to do something, writing tests or trying out features that have been posted about and finding bugs in them with small programs is plenty useful
I don't know if picking working on simplifying a massive thing that I find challenging to look at is likely to give any kind of morale boost.
 
 
4 hours later…
6:04 PM
I don't say it is bad. It is just very large and it contains many lines of code that only serve the build process for specific platforms, so when you do not work one of those (like Visual Studio) you could ignore these lines but when you want to print relevant pieces you will have to edit the source yourself. If the chunks/files were smaller then printing out only the files you know you need will be much less of a waste of paper and ink than it is now.
(I like to take listings with me on paper when I go to places that I do not want to bring my laptop, like the swimmingpool in summer.)
 
at this point, do you guys feel like history is repeating itself with red?
I assume some of you have been with rebol for a long time now
 
No, it has its own stategy of failure designed :-)
Well, I still hope it will become a success.
 
I wonder what red pro will be, the post is a little sparse on details. I am assuming that it will focus on being able to create android apps since they mention platforms.
 
Who will buy the Red/Pro version/program?
 
you?
 
6:10 PM
Not me. For certain not me.
 
don't lie now, you know you want to buy it... in fact, go ahead and send them some money telling them you want to preorder it
 
Sure, like. Hey guys! Here's a bitcoin for that program of yours! Pls send a link you know the email-address! 10110010011011001001010101010100101010101010101010101000011111111100101
I'll rather flip some bits on the Ren-C project here!
 
i wonder what the "state-of-the-art" optimizations are going to be
 
I am trying to add some OpenGL GUI to it, and as a start I am figuring out how the building process works so I can integrate that work without disturbing the work of other contributor(s)
@JacobGood1 Improvements of generated bytecode so the programs will not be triggering those AV's anymore.
 
Well, it would be good to actually wait for an announcement, before making conclusion based upon ... what exactly ... wild guessess?
 
6:17 PM
i hope i dont end up wanting to use rebol/red when im senile pissing myself in a nursing home
assuming i live that long
@pekr i dont think anyone has made any conclusions
 
But I can see kind of negative reactions based upon the Rebol's business model. Which I explained why it was particularly a failure. Or do you expect Red to block shell access, sound, databases, library access, hence a very essential features, and repeat Rebol's mistake of the past?
 
6:48 PM
It's open source
So they're introducing closed source now?
 
7:46 PM
@HostileFork oh, good. But then I need to understand how that works... why is '[a] == [a] ?
 
@giuliolunati Note that first ['[a]] == first [[a]] is false. The evaluator does not look at whether the thing that is quoted evaluates or not...all it does for a quoted thing when it sees it is take off one level of quote. So just how 'x is x after an evaluation, '[a] is [a] after an evaluation.
If you are writing a function and want to see a difference in parameter between '[a] and [a], you have to at least soft quote it...it can't be an evaluative parameter.
''[a] == [a] is false, because that evaluates to '[a] and [a]. Blocks are inert.
 
Oh yes, I see! Thank you!
 
[a] => [a] in the evaluator. x => (whatever x looks up to in the evaluator). If you said x: 'x then 'x = x, too.
@giuliolunati I am going to make IF (and other conditionals) soft quote their branches. See this post. That will be fun, you will be able to say things like if x = y '[some stuff] instead of if x = y [[some stuff]] (!)
That will save you one column in your phone editor. :-P I'll also make it so that you can say if x and 'y [...] instead of if x and [y] [...]
@giuliolunati The one level of "quoting on everything" is important for the API, for instance. When you say rebRun("...", value1, "if condition [", value2, "]", ...) you need a uniform interface when it throws a quote on for value2. It needs to make whatever kind of value back to what it was before the quote, so the evaluator can't treat things differently based on what kind of thing is quoted. Every quoted thing drops one quote level when evaluated.
 
8:10 PM
@JacobGood1 I would be 99% certain the real "market" for the Red/Pro product is not the general programming public. Nenad is not naive. He just needs something that plays well to whatever audience he's pitching to win influence with (investors / tech incubators / people he's trying to convince to work on Red because it's a "real business"). People unaware of Rebol's past wouldn't see it in the same light, so it might work with them.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:07 PM
Selling proprietary language technology these days is a non-starter. It doesn’t matter who you are, how big or small, it’s extremely long odds. Even the mere offer of a pay version competing alongside a free one is likely to sow distrust that the vendor may neglect/harm the free version in order to boost success of the commercial one.
In general you don’t want to be selling a tool. It’s like trying to convince someone that they have a problem they didn’t realize they had, and your tool is something that can fix IF they can make the cultural change necessary to adopt your technology.
I think it’s more modern these days to sell a platform, a solution. Hey here’s this thing that SOLVES an important need of yours. It costs money (a subscription fee), but it’s easy to adopt and you can drop out anytime.
And THEN you can talk about the super- neat scripting language that also comes along FREE with the platform.
“Ok, if you’re worried about the work involved to customize/extend the solution, sure you can use Java/Go whatever, it comes with this scripting language that we built special for extending this very platform, and it’ll totally make it far simpler for anybody to achieve the results you want— even a bunch of unpaid interns and ex-coffee baristas can customize this.”
So, yeah selling a tool, a programming language is like trying to sell a problem. Nobody wants to pay for a problem.
Better off figuring out what customers want/need and then marketing/offering that solution, and the scripting language is baked-in as a freebie extra benefit.
Rebol Technologies figured out the solution approach way too late in the game, and prob didn’t do enough homework on the market. The solution they offered wasn’t unique or compelling enough, had too much lock-in. These were deep tech guys, not enterprise or commercial software product guys.
I’m confident the Red people are much wiser than to attempt to sell language technology. Seriously, these are sharp people. I very much doubt they will adopt a poor strategy as described. Much
 
10:37 PM
@Edoc There are some paid versions of visual studio and what not, but I would imagine they want to get out of that long term...just don't want to walk away from money that's on the table today.
 
Yes, there are indeed legacy platforms which built their brand back in the day when paid software tooling was more standard.
 
@Edoc Some kind of smokescreen because they had to tick a box somewhere on a product plan for some particular person, vaporware I'm sure.
Or ultimately tied into a platform/subscription fee as you suggest.
 
Completing my earlier thought, yes much more likely that they will get into some kind of platform solution subscription fee approach.
 

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