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12:18 AM
posted on January 17, 2019 by hostilefork

R3-Alpha has the notion that dir? on anything that doesn't end in a slash is false, and always true if it does end in slash. CREATE considers this important... create %test and create %test/ are different. It does this instead of trying to have separate create-dir and create-file functions. MAKE-DIR is a usermode function that does a "dirize" before calling CREATE, so what you pass in gets a

 
 
4 hours later…
4:42 AM
There's always that brief moment of hope when you change something and all of a sudden everything seems to be running a lot faster...before you realize it's only running faster because something got broken and not doing what you thought it was. :-/
 
 
2 hours later…
7:08 AM
I'm starting to feel like branches should be soft-quoted. :-/ If they were you could say if condition '[some literal block] instead of if condition [[some literal block]]. The cost would be that when the code to run was coming from somewhere else you'd have to say if condition (code that produces block). But how bad is that, really?
You could also pass other literals. if condition 'x instead of if condition ['x]. With generalized quoting, either condition '<tag1> '<tag2>. This is a lot better and more general than the old if/only, and the efficiency of generalized quoting means it would be faster/lighter.
It dodges the problems that got non-block branches "backpedaled" (double evaluations when you weren't aware of it, sometimes). You know there's no evaluation if you use a LIT, a single evaluation if you use a BLOCK, and a double evaluation if you use a GROUP!...or at least, you're forced to give a quoted value on purpose if not a block.
Meta-code generating blocks to pass as branches on purpose is very rare...just speaking in proportion to the number of times you might like a lighter notation for single values. It seems hardly twisting your arm that hard to put such branches in a group.
@ingo It's going to be a while before any tuple-oriented changes happen, the path cleanups are first...and we'll be informed by that. Right now it's at the "idea stage"--where one of the ideas is tuples of today suck :-)
But like I said, I don't see it too different to say type of first [true 1.2] coming back saying true is a WORD!, vs. type of second [true 1.2] is a TUPLE!... if it's a word that evaluates to a LOGIC!, and a TUPLE! that evaluates to a DECIMAL!, then you're letting the evaluator dialect things to where the parts (words, tuples) have more generality. We get by with true/false and it's not often people say they should be exceptions and be LOGIC!.
 
7:48 AM
posted on January 18, 2019 by hostilefork

R3-Alpha only evaluated one left-hand side element for infix operators. Ren-C needed to allow for more evaluation in order to implement various ideas like ELSE: if condition [...] else [...] The ELSE required some verdict from IF about whether the condition was true and the branch ran or not. But if it were limited to only seeing one block on the left, it couldn't learn anything from th

 
@MarkI ^-- If you're interested in nuances, note the addition of how something which declares its argument to be tight adds in one step of deferment. Hence you can write if condition [10] then x => [print [x]] else [print "boo"]. If the lambda didn't mark its right hand block to be tight, then the one step of deferment ELSE would offer would be for the block...then the ELSE would run after the lambda but before the THEN. But tightness bumps it so the THEN runs before ELSE. Pretty killer.
I like the idea of tuples for multiple arguments to lambda: x.y => [x + y] as opposed to [x y] => [x + y], or x/y => [x + y]
Ah...if you soft-quote branches and have lambdas, you have to put the lambdas in a GROUP!. :-/ Which is not a huge deal, but it undermines the nuance I just mentioned, because you don't need it if you put things in groups!
 
 
5 hours later…
12:58 PM
posted on January 18, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: It’s uncommon to use expressions that evaluate to branches passed to conditionals. And when you do use one, you probably don’t mind putting it in a GROUP! (especially considering that 99% of the time in the far more common cases you were willing to put it in a BLOCK!). So Ren-C now uses that fact–plus generalized quoting–to allow fo

 
1:16 PM
posted on January 18, 2019 by Oldes

The rules are still the same... we don't want bunch of functions like create-dir, create-file, make-dir, read-dir, read-file, read-text-file etc. Regarding file vs directory, I don't know which (file) system do you use, but at least on *nix and Windows you cannot have file and directory with the same name. Because directory is just a special type of file. I don't say this issue is big one for

posted on January 18, 2019 by Oldes

There is this inconsistency: >> words-of make object! [a: 1 b: 2] == [a b] >> words-of make map! [a: 1 b 2] == [a: b] ;<---- it should also return [a b] In Red it is OK: >> words-of make map! [a: 1 b 2] == [a b]

 
1:46 PM
posted on January 18, 2019 by Oldes

The map! can now have keys of any word! type: >> words-of probe make map! [a 1 b: 2 :c 3 'd 4] make map! [ a 1 b: 2 :c 3 'd 4 ] == [a b: :c 'd] It should be normalized lie in Red: >> words-of probe make map! [a 1 b: 2 :c 3 'd 4] #( a: 1 b: 2 c: 3 d: 4 ) == [a b c d] Related issue: #2353

`http://we.re stuck in ever-expanding circles in #Software We'll need a quantum jump to get out this mess. Less syntax, more semantics. #rebol wasa brave attempt in the 90s+, but now, with @red becoming mature. The time is coming.
 
2:16 PM
posted on January 18, 2019 by hostilefork

Consider these functions that take two arguments, DUMP them, and return a TAG! of the function's name: variadic2: func [x [any-value! <...>]] [ loop 2 [-- (take x)] <variadic2> ] normal2: func [x y] [(-- x y) <normal2>] Despite one being variadic and one not, I will argue it is desirable that these functions act the same, if possible. However, they currently do not:

 
 
4 hours later…
6:20 PM
posted on January 18, 2019 by metalevelconsulting

[Reddit] "There are no "instructions" in Red, it's all data (blocks, words, integers, strings, etc...)." #blockquote

 
 
2 hours later…
8:08 PM
@HostileFork let b: [a 1 #a 2] then b/#a = 2 but (select b #a) = 1 . It's intentional?
Ah, ok, (pick b #a) = 2
 
@giuliolunati It is a long-running Rebolism that ANY-WORD! types are considered to be lax-equal with the same spelling. Exactly why that influences this particular distinction I don't know...it's the same answer as R3-Alpha (so not an intentional change), but Rebol2 gives 2 for both SELECT and PICK.
@giuliolunati If you have an opinion you can post it to rebol-issues, as it is an R3-Alpha-ism, not anything I've done.
Red also gives 2 for both SELECT and PICK--though it considers b/#a an illegal path, you have to say b/(#a)
 
posted on January 18, 2019 by iArnold

Minor addition of platform 'Macintosh as osx is called in R3 console on my Mac.

 
Difficult that Github stuff.... using Github Desktop app does not really help.
Well seems somehow got a connection here...
"We" will have to get r3n on parr as well. @giuliolunati @GrahamChiu
( @HostileFork will be holding his breath as to what is to come... don't do that, that world record is not worth it ;-) )
 
8:24 PM
@iArnold What has to come is me making a lot of decisions. Trying to do that.
 
9:00 PM
I want to pin down all these enfix things, and get them settled. It is a given that Beta/One means having to say "no" to some of the new cool-seeming features. I'm not sure how many things won't make the cut...but be assured, some things won't make it.
 
9:20 PM
posted on January 18, 2019 by IngoHohmann

Ren-c crashes on make map! ['a 1] There's no error message, ren-c just stops commit 35418a1 on linux

 
10:12 PM
@iArnold something got wrong, commit hashes in r3n are different from metaeducation ones... I will re-clone
 
-1
Q: How to create a series from 1000 to 9999

Terrence BrannonI want to choose a random number from 1000 to 9999. Having looked at the docs for random I would like for random to choose a number from a series ranging from 1000 to 9999. I know that I can do 999 + (random 9000) but that does not read well in my opinion.

 
@giuliolunati Guess it is old so if needed it must be removed first. I remember some changes were done in r3n, but nothing that can't be redone I guess.
 
10:47 PM
0
A: How to create a series from 1000 to 9999

giuliolunatiYou could define your own function, e.g. random2: function [a b] [a - 1 + random b - a + 1] then random2 1000 9999

0
A: How to create a series from 1000 to 9999

9214There is a well-established method for computing a random number between two inclusive boundaries: (random(0,1) * (max - min + 1)) + min Porting it to Red should be straightforward, and wrapping it into a dedicated function would alleviate the "readability" concern. For instance: >> between:...

 
@GrahamChiu I never left, I just lurk around
@HostileFork pretty much nailed my angle
 
11:07 PM
@JacobGood1 Hard to do, it would be different if Rebol and Red didn't already exist and have forms people could deal with. Hence the goal isn't just "show people the idea"--that's already kind of done. The goal is "show people the idea rebooted". Showing them merely the idea of a reboot is a rather flat proposition...we've seen enough clunky...it kind of has to work.
 

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