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12:01 AM
So that's intrinsic to the covenant: the evaluator will never have more than those two behaviors, and if one of those doesn't satisfy your operator, it has to error instead of asking to twist up evaluation.
 
@MarkI someone submitted a solution
 
12:32 AM
@giuliolunati Again, let me know if you need any help with anything--but I think this should resolve your parentheses paranoia. You can count on it now!
 
12:48 AM
Wow, this is so cool: 1 + if true [2] else [3] + 4 = 7
3
I'm sure it probably looks silly to get excited by something so seemingly simple to the random passerby reading me saying that. Any vote, @middayc ? :-P
And you can shorten it as 1 + if true '2 else '3 + 4 = 7, if you want to, but that might seem more confusing. At the moment there's some experimental tricks so that '3 + 4 is '7 but I don't know if those tricks will be kept, but even still the soft quoting would win and not let the + 4 pick up the '3
 
 
1 hour later…
1:59 AM
posted on January 22, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: There’s a difference between a parameter specified as 'x and one passed as :x. As a reminder of the distinction: soft-quoter: func ['x] [-- x] >> soft-quoter add 1 2 -- add ;; did not run the add, just grabbed the word == 2 >> soft-quoter (1 + 2) -- 3 ;; evaluated the group == 3 hard-quoter: func [:x] [-- x]

 
2:37 AM
@HostileFork Cool. And in the very worst case wouldn't do :lib/help -> work?
 
@MarkI eval :lib/help ->, yes, that would work. (DO only takes zero arity ACTION!, it is not "effectively variadic".)
 
2:55 AM
I'm going to bring up my suggestion that error IDs be URL! ... and that the granularity of how concerned you are about matching the ID contextually is such that you use as much of the "NewPath"-style path of it as you care to check. So http://rebol.org/e/json/bad-underscore can be the canon ID, then you test it against /bad-underscore or /json/bad-underscore or if you want to be 100% sure then http://rebol.org/e/json/bad-underscore
The less of the path you use, the more likely you'll make a mistake based on a collision when you are checking an ID, but you get what you pay for.
This is a further argument for NewPaths starting with blank--the generalization of REFINEMENT!--being evaluator inert. Preferable to not need to write '/bad-underscore.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:47 AM
red> m: make map! [1.0 "a"]

red> m/1
== none

red> 1 = 1.0
== true
red> m: make map! [fOo: "a"]

red> m/(quote :FOo)
== "a"
I often complain about the lack of a consistent definition of equality. Hashing is an approach where it will collide, and ultimately the collisions are resolved by a collision-proof equality operator. If = is not the operation they are going for here, what the heck is it that their hash is supposed to be accelerating?
(R3-Alpha had the same problem, Red just adds more.) Anyway...uhrm...I can add an assert in the comparison operator if it says any two values are equal to also guarantee they hash the same, but it's going to trigger all over the place. But I'm going with my assumption that there are only two types of equality we plan to build in: IS-ness and =-ness (what is called STRICT-EQUAL? today).
And IS-ness can be as funky as it wants to be, I guess, but if you expect to be able to look things up in maps based on IS-ness then the hash has to account for that funky-ness.
 
5:46 AM
0
A: Red implementation of Rock, Scissors, Paper

rgchrisLooks an interesting first project! Some thoughts: The URL! type does not need a % prefix (they would be interpreted as FILE! and would behave incorrectly were you to operate upon them). In Red, you can use the WORD! type in place of strings. You can use a LIT-WORD! to get a word without evalua...

 
@HostileFork Some kind of canonical maybe.
 
@MarkI Heh.
@MarkI The MAYBE operator in Ren-C is neat, it's an anti-default. x: 10 | x: maybe select [a '20 b '30] 'b will get you x as 30. But then x: maybe select [a '20 b '30] 'c will leave x as 30. So it checks if the right hand side evaluates to null and if so does not modify the set-word/set-path on the left... (and the overall expression will evaluate to the former value)
 
6:46 AM
posted on January 22, 2019 by hostilefork

This is a proof of concept for changing the parameter conventions of functions. Right now all it allows is to change the return type to return any value: returns-int: func [return: [integer!] x] [x * 10] returns-text: enclose 'returns-int func [f] [ f/x: f/x + 1 to text! do f ] reskin :returns-text [return: [<opt> any-value!]] >> returns-text 10 == 10 But it only does

1
A: Red implementation of Rock, Scissors, Paper

9214Your code seemingly follows official style guide, so that's a plus. Not all of it is properly formatted though. In terms of implementation: textual interface is tightly coupled with game logic, which makes refactoring and code support particularly hard. I would suggest to keep all functionally ...

 
7:06 AM
There really are a lot of ways to play with wording that are getting built here. With #postpone operators (name courtesy @GrahamChiu), they could be a kin of #defer...same rules to keep the system coherent and not introduce things like pathological variadic behavior. But you could say things different ways, e.g.:
x: ensure integer! second [1 2 3]
ensure integer! x: second [1 2 3]
x: second [1 2 3] matches integer!
 
8:00 AM
@giuliolunati was advocating at one point that AS made more sense as an infix, and I argued why that wasn't necessarily great. But I wonder, if we had CAST as a prefix form, and if AS used the now-more-reigned in deferred enfix, if it would actually work. You'd get errors instead of bad situations, e.g. return x as integer! would be an error vs. throwing away the AS.
So you could change that to either return (x as integer!) or return cast integer! x if you hit that case.
But the reason I bring it up is actually IN. I feel like with enfix being so strong these days, if 'x in obj [...] is much more literate than if in obj 'x [...].
 
@MarkI Mention, mention. A big word for listing the solution sent in by Andreas amongst those other languages. ;-)
 
(Anyway, focus on the IN-as-normal-enfix-proposal, not the AS thing...I was just thinking out loud there. Generally speaking deferred enfix should probably be limited to THEN, ELSE, and ALSO and a very few other select words that people could reasonably think of as working that way, hence intrinsically -requiring- more than one unit of leftward-looking...you KNOW they're not just looking at the block to their left, that's obvious)
 
8:31 AM
@HostileFork you continue to advance Rebol semantics!
2
 
 
1 hour later…
9:34 AM
posted on January 22, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: Now that <skip>-able arguments have been firmed up, and are a confirmed Beta/One feature, it’s time to deploy one of my early ideas for using them… FAIL. If you haven’t been using FAIL, you should! It now lets you just point at any arbitrary value and complain about it–no message required. >> foo: 10 >> fail 'foo

3
 
@rgchris ^-- I know error reporting is a thing you're interested in, so if you want to make FAIL better, by all means do. More and more mechanics are being factored out to usermode for purposes like this and for debugging.
 
 
2 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
12:56 PM
posted on January 22, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: Note: People should bear in mind there was never a question that semicolon was going to stay a comment character. There was only a question of if another sequence (or sequences) would be permitted. (!) Also, bear in mind that the alternative syntax for comments discussion started in August 2017. Hence it predated the creation of

 
1:19 PM
^-- What this really winds up being is "I'm not going to use ;-- or ;;, just a single semicolon and put two spaces away from the code it's commenting". So there is a policy change in there: No more ;-- or ;; in the codebase.
 
2:19 PM
posted on January 22, 2019 by IngoHohmann

help errored when used with text! or datatype. what didn't work at all. Additionally I added a way to get back a block from what.

 
2:48 PM
posted on January 22, 2019 by IngoHohmann

Git Commits starting with a number are not loadable, so the make failed. I check loading errors, and unloadable values are used as text!.

 
 
1 hour later…
3:55 PM
I'm not able to build Ren-c with MinGW after a break
== SHIMMING OLDER R3 TO MODERN LANGUAGE DEFINITIONS ==
------ Building headers
Generating "Internal API" (via make-headers.r)
Generating "Function Symbols" (via make-headers.r)
** Error: The system cannot find the file specified.

** Where: read if load do catch either else _ do
** Near: []
** File: tmp-boot.r
** Line: 5280
I am using an automated build from 4 days ago
as r3-make
 
4:07 PM
I guess it's not hitting prep to generate files for some reason
 
 
2 hours later…
5:47 PM
Jumped back to 5ca91898a36883a502e76f90db4736b4c0f134b5 (randomly) and it works, so something is broken rather than my config.
 
6:08 PM
broken at 4abc5a7479d47
 
 
1 hour later…
7:17 PM
@HostileFork \ is used as an escape character in other languages, and semantically that suits what we are doing; we escape from code to comment :)
 
7:35 PM
@kealist There are only two EXEs which are currently promised to stay working for bootstrap: the latest one and the one in the make directory. That has the unfortunate property that if you pick a random EXE to build with from any given day that works, then you might find it doesn't stay working. You can think of it a bit like being that you might download a build that has a bug in it, we would not be committed to supporting the consequences of that bug for all time.
In a pinch, most EXEs between bootstrap and the current one shouldn't be too hard to fiddle with and make work; the bootstrap process should be written to a kind of common denominator you'd expect to work for most versions. But there's no guarantee.
@kealist ...but welcome back...lots of new stuff to try out
 
7:50 PM
@HostileFork I'm using the one in the repo make directory and it doesn't work
 
@kealist Have you tried merging up @ingo's patch (just pushed)? He changed something about loading git commit numbers.
 
8:13 PM
@HostileFork Just tried, unsuccessful
 
@kealist It's working on Travis on my machine. So this sounds like a job for superkealist! :-)
@kealist Debugging-wise, this should be the kind of thing that's useful hijack 'read adapt copy :read [-- source], so you could get it to dump out what it was trying to read at every READ. It works but is complaining about unsafe API calls...I'll look to see what that's about. Still might be handy.
 
8:37 PM
>> first [a]
== a

>> second [a]
; null
^-- based on my prescriptions of the comment concession, null output in the console is just that. Not ;-- null or ;; null or anything. Short and to the point, I guess.
If errors are a form of ANY-CONTEXT!, we need to put their args into some kind of sub-object. Otherwise users can't name their error parameters things like "id". That's bad. So... error/id vs. error/data/id, for instance ?
The other option would be to put all the system stuff in the META-OF, and access it with id of error. And if we're going to be changing error IDs to always be some form of PATH! (my current concept), we'd have to touch everyplace anyway. But while it might be fine to hide away the error's NEAR and WHERE information off somewhere, the ID seems different, like you should get it by default when you mold the error...and it should be considered part of equality comparison.
(By contrast, the near and where seems like they should not be part of equality comparisons, e.g. the same error ID with the same argument data raised from two different points in the code should be equal. So maybe they should be in the meta)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:57 PM
@ingo Thanks for the PRs...the more people who pitch in, the more likely Beta/One can happen in this decade :-)
 
10:18 PM
0
A: How to find the first element of a block of strings whose first character matches an input character?

Gregg IrwinIf you only want one match, and to use only the actual item names in your block, your own solution is fine. But one of the important things about Red is how you can structure your data to make things easier. For example, if you want to select items from a list based only on a known key (e.g. firs...

0
A: How to increment element of block after found element?

Gregg IrwinConsider, also, that you may not need to use strings in your data block. player-choices: [rock 0 paper 0 scissors 0] player-choices/paper: player-choices/paper + 1 You can also write a generic incr func, like this: incr: function [ "Increments a value or series index" value [scalar! s...

 
 
2 hours later…
11:57 PM
When pushing bits of code around and having it come together and work, I often think about this orb weaver spider. You watch it and go "how does it know what to do?" It just does, I guess. :-)
 

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