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2:08 AM
Welcome back @KK.
 
KK.
Hello @HostileFork
I was just reading the discussion you guys carried on from yesterday.
 
What's new? :-)
 
KK.
Nothing.
Just got up, did some chores etc..
The problem with kids from India and China is that 1. we are focused a lot on making money ASAP. Thats where C/Cpp/Obj-C/Java/C#/js etc. come from
 
I think it's nice in chat to kind of humanize things a bit. Here is where I write you from at the moment. Graham thinks I'm OCD but I'm not.
 
KK.
And 2. Most people here take up programming in their early 20s or very late teens, so the chance for experimentation that you get in early teens is gone.
3. From 1, since it is only for money, people do not want to experiment with new things (which might be a few decades old languages they did not know about)
 
2:13 AM
I have heard conflicting reports of conditions in India... that there are large gaps between the rich, the middle class and the very poor... larger than in the US.
Not that it's great here. Getting worse actually.
 
KK.
That is understandable, keeping in mind that we just got independent a few decades back. The problem is that its getting bad than before.
Oh yes.
The thing is, after some time, some decades or centuries, people get fed up with the present systems. Then new 'myths' like democracy, or religion etc. are made up.
BTW great place.
 
Rebol kind of fits with the idea of ecology, sustainability, transparency...it is radical.
@KK. Thanks. It's not that clean right now, I need to tidy up. :-)
 
KK.
I think it is very clean, blame it on the world-divide.
Why graham thinks you are OCD? (I take it as Obsessive Compulsive disorder)
@HostileFork I won't be able to code today. Got a lot of errands to do. But I want you to know that I love the language.
@dt2 Thanks.
@dt2 It works fine.
 
@KK. Well it's nice to have a new programmer, as new programmers have new questions! When we ask questions of each other they are always depressing edge cases that get us down. Whereas when new people ask questions, there's a happy "look at it this way!" answer.
So it is motivating.
 
KK.
@HostileFork @rgchris @dt2 @GrahamChiu If you think now, or in the future, that I am being dumb or trolling, just tell me straightaway. From where I am sitting, it simply feels great to talk to guys like you.
 
2:24 AM
Whereas when new people ask questions, there's a happy "look at it this way!" answer. Okay I exaggerate, this is not always true. Sometimes people ask questions right away that make us go "aaaaarrrrgh I can't believe it"
@KK. Do not worry. We're just guys who like Rebol and we're not that busy and I'm actively discouraging people from trying to "catch up" or treat chat as archival.
If it scrolls off the top of the screen, let it go.
You're quite welcome.
 
KK.
Thanks. The only thing I worry about is wasting your time.
 
But: if you want to point something out, star it. => see links on right.
I'm quite effective at wasting my own time, with or without your help. :-P
So don't worry.
 
KK.
What if I just stop coming to this room in a few days, then your time and effort would have gone in vain
 
@KK. I don't know your religious beliefs, but couldn't that be applied to anything?
 
KK.
I guess.
 
2:28 AM
If you want to get all "transactional" about it
 
KK.
My parents are Hindus, so I guess that makes me a Hindu as well.
 
The transaction is me testing methods and ideas of convincing people about Rebol, I might write better tutorials.
You give us new eyes because we're a bit blind to the "new user" experience. If you use a tool long enough you kind of forget about the warts and problems because you've developed a kind of "muscle memory" that makes you avoid them.
At Microsoft we paid people to sit behind one-way mirrors and talk out loud while using software, we'd videorecord it
One recorder on their hands so we could see what they instinctively tried to do, even if they forgot and didn't quite remember what button they'd pushed in trying to solve a task
 
KK.
@HostileFork Really?
 
Um...yes? They're called usability labs.
 
KK.
Ok.
 
2:32 AM
Funny though, the developers aren't allowed to talk to the test subjects.
You put out a call for the kind of person you want. "I want someone who knows Word but has never used Excel" or what not
And you give them a task with no manuals or anything, just "do the task and talk out loud while you do it, providing rationale for why you clicked on something and tell us when it did something you expected or did not expect"
 
KK.
Maybe they think letting a developer talk to a subject could let some sort of prejudice come in.
Ok. I wonder what they do at Apple's usability labs.
 
But a trained usability specialist, generally with a psychology background, is the only person allowed to talk on the microphone to the person.
Probably similar
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think the useability specialist is like a host/moderator on a TV chat show.
 
I did 3 session iterations on a product, and I'll tell you, by the 3rd iteration they just got it.
The first was hilarious
Good thing I couldn't yell at them :-)
 
KK.
@HostileFork Indeed.
 
2:36 AM
You need to get a little bit of a "customer is always right" mentality, which is unnatural for engineers, who always think the engineer is right. :-)
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think it is necessary for engineers who get to work in big companies because they are kind of shielded. It just comes naturally to people working at startups etc.
Right now, history aside, Rebol too seems to be in a startup phase. Some guys trying to convince the world that it is a great thing.
 
@KK. Yes, there is an angle right now of survival of the fittest and most effective that is coming out due to more frictionless markets... like I said, Rebol can't just have some ugly website it does not update, that doesn't fly. Look how pretty the Ruby site is.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Yes, it just tries to hypnotise you.
 
But Carl Sassenrath is an electrical engineer (my degree too) and he just skips all that and looks at the technology.
I don't think it's either/or, I think you should get it ALL right
 
KK.
Ok. I remember you or someone else here telling me about a phase when languages came wrapped. I think it is still the same case for the tools in the electrical engineering industry.
@HostileFork Yes, all or nothing.
 
2:41 AM
@KK. EE is getting democratized too, we're watching it happen, kickstarter etc.
 
KK.
Ok.
 
In the list of things I'm interested in destroying, the patent system... it's so bad, and the people trying to sue and strengthen that noose are not good people.
Some people talk about reform, I don't know exactly what shape the reform might take...but I will say abolishment is better than what we have now.
If Apple is blocking cheap portable Wikipedia to developing countries, Apple can die.
 
KK.
@HostileFork But IMHO it is not as bad as you think. The fault in the system is that it is the rich that are generally able to benefit from it, just like the __normal__legal system. Now, I do not think normal folks like us have a chance without a legal system.
 
And I will shed no tears.
 
KK.
Lots of times I too think the same about Apple.
 
2:45 AM
I like law, because it is code, and I like code, and I like systems, and I like rules. But the punch line at the end when you look at it all was that it was for goodness and fairness.
If the law is not in service of fairness and goodness, throw out that "law"
 
KK.
@HostileFork Basically, we are very tightly coupled to the things that we hate.
 
Well as you see I have a mac mini, quad core i7 with RAID0-SSD. Superfast actually. Economically for an Intel host and the space I wanted to put it, the competition had not built a better product at that price point.
That would fit on my desk
 
KK.
I can't explain what tight coupling or for that matter, coupling is, but I think you get the idea I am trying to show.
 
That was before the latest moves by apple which have infuriated me even more.
@KK. "tightly coupled to the things we hate" ... yes ...
 
KK.
I am sitting with a Toshiba Satellite Pro, 2 GB DDR3 Ram.
 
2:50 AM
Main machine?
 
KK.
@HostileFork have you seen codeacademy ?
@HostileFork Yes.
 
I have a laptop that's a sort of high-end netbook...an old Asus TimelineX. I don't love it or hate it, but it has nice battery life.
If there's no http:// in the link it won't work
 
KK.
Ok. Thanks.
@HostileFork I am sorry, but I have to leave. I will come again in about 8-10 hours.
Bye.
 
@KK. Yes, I encourage students who join the C++ group (and think I know something because I am old and talk all slick) to do that. When they ask me for advice I suggest starting with things in that spirit... as well as Project Euler... and to blog about it as a kind of personal portfolio which will impress potential employers.
@KK. TTYL
 
KK.
Thanks for making me look up TTYL.
So, TTYL, I guess. :-)
 
3:44 AM
This is sort of what I was thinking r3gui.com/scripts/bootstrap.r
Which turns this page twitter.github.com/bootstrap/examples/starter-template.html into a sort of rebol object.
so you can construct/with a new object keeping various defaults, and then a parser traverses the object creating the new page. It likely needs more details though to reconstruct the page correctly.
 
 
10 hours later…
1:59 PM
@GrahamChiu Hm, interesting. I'd not seen the twitter bootstrap before, or the glyph icon set. Last page I made I used the HTML5 boilerplate which was rather bulky.
The first icon in the glyph set is a martini glass, the second is a leaf, and the third is a dog. What kind of software are these people writing? :-)
"Welcome to Crazy Johnny's Eco-Kennel and Dog Bar. Follow us on Twitter!"
The most environmental way to get your Weimaraner wasted!
 
2:29 PM
I predict it's going to be difficult for Rebol to position itself as a general server side solution as a web framework. The thing I keep wanting to see is insinuation as some sort of tool...to be compatible with an existing framework and then grow into a bigger role with time.
The syntax coloring component of StackOverflow is third party Python code, if I recall correctly...and they run that in a different process from how they run the main site.
 
3:23 PM
Hmm... who is ccx?
 
KK.
Hello all.
 
@KK. Hello again...
 
KK.
Hello.
 
Someone new submitted a code change to the Rebol codebase. I don't know who it is.
 
KK.
I am trailing on my learning, did nothing today and its 21:05 hrs here in India
 
3:35 PM
Is it typical to use a 24 hour clock in India or just you?
 
KK.
OK. Let me see what change it is. Just for the sake of having a look at a change to a language.
I used 24 hour scale because we all are in different zones.
Maybe the military and transportation/aviation etc. use a 24 hour scale, but I think that happens everywhere with these guys
REBOL [R3] Source Code Distribution
Date: 12-Dec-2012
Version: 2.101.0
From: Carl Sassenrath
Web: www.rebol.com
Really, Dec 12, 2012 ?
Wow.
 
12-12-12 :-)
 
KK.
First of all, I don't think it was 12-12-12 for the sake of being 12-12-12
Secondly, I meant its not even been 2 months!
 
Yup. We're all still scurrying.
@earl got that build page up pretty fast though!
 
KK.
Now I remember you telling me about these being exciting times
 
3:41 PM
It builds automatically for three platforms when there is a GitHub checkin.
I built it for HaikuOS. You can hear me talk a little about it here.
 
KK.
What is HaikuOS? Let me look up HaikuOS.
 
I'm going to redo that video but it's a draft.
Haiku is a mostly free and open source operating system compatible with BeOS. Its development began in 2001, and the operating system became self-hosting in 2008. The first alpha release was made in September 2009, and the most recent was November 2012. Haiku is supported by Haiku, Inc., a non-profit organization based in Rochester, New York founded in 2003 by former project leader Michael Phipps. History Haiku began as the OpenBeOS project in 2001, the year that Be, Inc. was bought by Palm, Inc. and BeOS development was discontinued; the focus of the project was to support the BeOS u...
Hey, Google gave Haiku $5,000. Why don't they give us $5,000? :-)
 
KK.
[OVER-GENERALIZED] I guess Google too are a big company now, and Haiku has more buzz than us?
 
It's cheap advertising, and the culture of kids who are into Haiku is their recruiting base. They participate in summer of code
$5k is nothing for an ad on the Haiku site, basically.
But hey that can keep a developer stocked with Internet and beer for a little while. :-)
 
KK.
3:57 PM
I like the wood-eye and pig-nose joke. Pun on both sides. :-)
@HostileFork I take it you are the narrator. B***n?
 
Well my point is that if you're a fringe technology activist you should not be too skittish that you get in arguments with those who would be your allies because you're used to being an outcast and assume you're being picked on...
Yup, and my name is not a secret, there's just several Brians about.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Ok.
 
So if you say Fork or HostileFork people know who you mean, but if you say Brian it could be one of several people. Personal branding is important. Just ask Gandhi. :-)
 
KK.
@HostileFork There is an analogy. I read somewhere that good people, good ideas (and good things overall) are scattered, whereas evil is united.
@HostileFork :-)
 
@KK. I have a sort of idle philosophical idea which is actually the opposite. That in the end, Good has more in common...while evil has sort of an "oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive" thing going on. Good's invisible unity between parties that have never met will outpace any individual evil.
Dunno if you follow American cinema, but I love the robot in Moon. It saves the day.
 
KK.
4:04 PM
@HostileFork What you say seems fine, but it seems wrong in past, and I am pretty skeptical about the future.
I only follow what is on HBO/Star Movies, and what friends recommend.
 
I give that a 100% recommendation.
 
KK.
@HostileFork If we are to discuss things other than Rebol, should we get another room?
 
Well if you want to get deeply personal or private for some reason, there's email and such. But if it's just chat then no, I'm trying to let it be organic.
 
KK.
@HostileFork What are your thoughts on torrents? This is a classic example of what you call Good's invisible unity between parties that never met
@HostileFork Ok. It was just that I thought future newbies and people presently from the Rebol community would not get the content that they came for.
 
We've talked here about post-scarcity economies, I think we should be as a society more focused on information sharing and debugging our technical infrastructure than on who-owns-what.
Musicians were brainwashed into thinking they needed record labels for instance. Now people are learning to be their own label and develop personal relationships with their fans. It's a transition. Some elements of the past fused with some modern abilities.
 
KK.
4:09 PM
@HostileFork Yes. I think wikileaks is similar.
@HostileFork clearly you have put a lot of thought into your ... thought.
 
To me, the problem with piracy isn't about money, it's about security of the channel. There was a movie rental store in the US which had VHS videocassettes and it was owned by people in a religious group, and you didn't know it but the movies you were renting had been edited to suit what they did or did not like.
I am more concerned, in general, about this problem which can happen whether you are going through a so-called "legitimate" or "illegitimate" channel.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think it happens everywhere. Why do you think schooling systems (especially primary schools) and media are closely censored by the governments?
There has been a recent issue in India.
 
Given your age and cultural background you probably don't know George Carlin.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Heard about him from you first.
 
Ah, well I am thinking about him lately, also Noam Chomsky.
 
KK.
4:17 PM
A person named Arvind Kejriwal started his own political party and started uncovering information about several rich and mighty people here. One of them, Mukesh Ambani , or maybe his brother Anil served legal notices NOT to Kejriwal, but to almost all major TV news channels here. And they've been relatively quiet since then.
 
To bring it back to Rebol, it is a philosophy and an art, and I do think it was intended to make programming and language democratic.
 
KK.
Ok.
So how did you get started with Rebol?
 
@KK. Big country, I'm sure there are parallels to Assange etc. going on that I have no clue about.
 
KK.
Not parallels to Assange (the dude's unique as of now), but lots of things go around that we get to know nothing about
Also, I am sure it happens elsewhere too, but we have lots of paid news here.
 
@KK. A friend of mine who was a video game programmer for the Amiga told me about it.
He diversified his company from video games to project management software, and decided to use Rebol on the server side for it.
I learned it so I could understand what he was doing.
 
KK.
4:20 PM
Ok.
And I suppose you just got hooked.
:-)
 
Well, I didn't use it very much, I just complained about it not being open source. :-)
This was the first thing I made, and I don't even know if it works in Rebol 3 or not!
 
KK.
So it was free but not opensource.
Cool thing.
 
Well other languages either have something or don't, Rebol you can build what's missing if you want it.
 
KK.
Let me just read there how you got hooked.
 
You know about while loops, and for loops that have start numbers and end numbers and a "bump" count of how much to increment each time...
 
KK.
4:27 PM
Yes, in other languages. In Rebol, I think I saw a for-each somewhere, but thats about it.
 
Then people go "My language is awesome! It has ranges for x& (1 .. 12, 14 .. 80) { print x; }
"That's the syntax for printing 1 through 12 and 14 to 80. Isn't that SO MUCH BETTER than how you would do that in YOUR LANGUAGE?"
Rebol people just sigh
you built that into your language kernel? seriously?
Of course we can make dialects for that.
 
KK.
Yes, thats what I thought.
 
my-for x [1 thru 12 14 thru 80] [print x]
We don't build that garbage in, we add it if it fits, and we design even cooler things because we have a nice big parts box.
What about...skip values in parentheses?
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think this and the portability due to small size of language (you talked about it in the video) complement each other.
 
y: 10 my-for x [1 thru 12 (2) 14 thru 80 (y + 1)] [print x]
@KK. It's self contained. No DLLs, no installation.
Ultimate swiss-army knife
Oh, try this on for size. print to string! read http://hostilefork.com
 
KK.
4:35 PM
@HostileFork what the hell? :-)
 
The interpreter has networking protocols inside it.
"Batteries included"
 
KK.
Someday, I am gonna write myself a web crawler. :-)
@HostileFork Rebol has lots of useful things included and lots of useless things excluded.
 
@KK. Well spoken. I starred that. :-)
 
KK.
Ok. Thanks.
 
But it's bittersweet though, obviously something is "wrong" because Rebol did not "win". It would be foolish to not consider why that is.
So we sit around and meditate on this question, because the open sourcing isn't going to just magically make it win.
My pet peeves are the formalism things. It's really irritating that Rebol uses a one-based indexing scheme.
pick [a b c] 1 is the word! a.
Which may look "natural" and like it lines up with first [a b c] being a.
 
KK.
4:40 PM
I once read about the Anna Karienna [principle](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle) I think it will be better to consider what will get Rebol to win by comparing and contrasting other successful languages rather than to concentrate on why it failed.
 
But it's a slippery slope. I think pick [a b c] 0 should be equivalent to first [a b c] because it simply is more computery.
This is a hard thing to convince people to change!
But it must change.
Then dozens of web tutorials break, but they must break, because it needs to be correct.
@KK. I have some ideas here, it's just about timing.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I do not think it is too hard a thing.
 
In these so-called interesting times we need to show a healthy github where integrations happen in a reasonable amount of time. This is not happening yet. We have to look healthier.
Red is very healthy.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Yes, I was also thinking the same.
 
KK.
4:44 PM
Basically, when you go to a fight, you better take some backup.
 
My big "political agenda" is to unify Rebol and Red.
I think there will come a time in a few months where some things have been sorted out and a turnkey Rebol solution to some problem people have will draw attention to the project. But when the moment comes, the face of Rebol cannot be the current rebol.com website.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I was thinking today, what if we change the name of the language to Rebel instead of Rebol? I know it actually means something, but there are lots of languages with meaningless names kicking ass.
@HostileFork Maybe start a Rebol-lang.com or talk to carl?
 
@KK. I have what I think is a better name, and a different branding and logo identity.
But we're not going to pull that out just yet.
 
KK.
Ok.
@HostileFork I take it timing is key.
 
The motif is based on my Freebol page, and Freebol is an even worse name than Rebol so ignore that part. But think "ecological software sustainability" as the brand.
Oh. Try this: print now
Then print now + 1 :-)
 
KK.
4:53 PM
Ok. I was thinking more about branding it as a language for rebels, people who are sick of writing for loops for a living etc., but I think I must learn the language before I go on with these thoughts.
Great.
 
Like I said, it's an "interesting" time. A few people hang out here, I guess it's Sunday so those people with families and all that are busy.
 
KK.
Now, when I write print now + .1 it again jumps by 1 day, 1.2 jumps by 2 days etc..
 
Here to support you but this is not a sure winner for a career path. Learning the finer points of CSS float margin divs or whatever will serve more.
Really?
 
KK.
@HostileFork I live with my parents.
 
@KK. Don't use that as a pick up line in bars. :-)
 
KK.
4:56 PM
`>> print now + 3.1
7-Feb-2013/0:50:18+5:30`
@HostileFork LOL.
 
Welcome @Dracony... we are discussing various Rebol and non-Rebol topics, including what not to say as pick up lines aparently. :-)
@KK. I'm not reproducing this.
>> print now
3-Feb-2013/10:58:49-6:00

>> print now + 0.1
3-Feb-2013/13:22:51-6:00
Looks like it added a tenth of a day to me
Although I have trouble calculating tips so you probably shouldn't ask me.
 
KK.
Ok. Its 10:30 here, so a tenth of a day takes me to tomorrow :-)
I had found a bug in the compiler -:)
 
Interpreter! (Red is compiled, Rebol is interpreted.)
 
KK.
Yes, but the phrase is bug-in-the-compiler (But I should have said interpreter)
 
I think the phrasing varies, and strongly correlates with whether you are talking about a compiler or an interpreter. :-)
I've decided we should talk about people who join the chat room and don't talk, as an incentive for them to talk.
-1
A: Need help creating a universal "getter" function in PHP

Draconythe way prepared statements work is that the quesry is prepared and then the data for the fields is sent. Because the first '?' refers to an actual part of query it can not be prepared. Workarounds: a) Fetch the whole row and return just the field you need $this->con->prepare("SELECT * FRO...

What's with the downvote here. Seems sincere enough.
@Dracony I'll do another compensatory upvote.
 
KK.
5:05 PM
I basically thought of the whole thing as a box that takes my code and does what my code tells it, until I met python and the fact that a mistake in an else part of an if conditional does not stop the code if the if part qualifies.
 
@KK. Heh. The interpreter emperor has no clothes!
 
KK.
haha
 
See, this is why I love C++11 and have a little shrine to Bjarne Stroustrup. Well, okay I made up the shrine part, but I do love C++11.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I did not get what you said.
 
@KK. Oh. You pointed out that interpreters have a failure in that, there is no global analysis of the correctness or consistency of the program before it starts running.
I never really made peace with that, and it's why I hated so much of what people were doing in the modern era of what they called "programming".
 
KK.
5:09 PM
Ok.
 
Until Rebol. With Rebol I thought, "hmm, this is a different way of looking at it, that is...different but still okay for certain purposes, possibly better for some."
@earl D'ya know who "ccx" is?
@KK. dunno if you saw my old blog entries, but I have a few about Rebol. They're outdated, but if you are finding this stuff interesting they may provide food for thought: flexible series, quirks, revolution
 
KK.
Will do.
 
@KK. All code is from the Rebol 2 era, rules have changed, principles still apply.
 
KK.
Ok.
You mean tutorials at rebol.com/tutorials.html are outdated for r3?
 
@KK. I'm afraid so. Some things will work, some things will break. It's a bit of a grab bag.
Unfortunately, we can't edit pages on rebol.com
 
KK.
5:22 PM
Ok.
 
One of the reasons I advocate for StackOverflow as a resource. If it's wrong, or outdated, someone can step in.
 
KK.
Yes. Even some questions get old with time. The ones you can't vote/comment on.
 
And although one needs X number of points before you can just edit without approval, anyone can suggest an edit.
And 9 times out of 10 its a good edit and it gets approved.
I get bugged by the people who seem to be on an editing vendetta, like they searched the site for "algorythm" and are submitting dozens of edits so it says "algorithm".
But at the same time, it is an improvement, however small. I dunno.
Consider me on the fence with this. :-)
 
KK.
I once retagged a question and got 2 rep points. Next day again I did the same and got 2 points.
Maybe people do editing etc. because of points.
 
There's a reputation cap at 1000. You can do that 500 times, after that no points. :-)
 
KK.
5:26 PM
Ok.
 
Once you can just edit, you don't get points for it.
 
KK.
Ok.
 
It's just your job. Your unpaid job. But you do it for the love. :-)
I found out Starbucks won't take StackOverflow points.
 
KK.
:)
I once read a funny phrase.
Take it as:
If you had a dollar for every SO rep point, you would be richer by 10k (or something similar, you get the idea)
 
@KK. Mitch Hedberg said it thusly: "If I had a dollar for every time I said that...I'd be making money in a very weird way."
 
KK.
5:30 PM
Ok.
 
@HostileFork no idea, no.
@HostileFork could you please add the following comment to line 206 of CCX's pull request as well: "Please don't add in-source change logs. The version control system already takes care of this."
 
@earl Carl isn't going to like those consts. If I don't like it, he's not going to like it. :-) I advised against them.
 
@HostileFork Yeah, I fully agree with your two review remarks.
Also, adding a variable named alf while renaming hf and tf to make things "easier to understand" strikes me as inconsistent; but, well.
 
Well let's try and keep a tone that does not discourage new contributors who want to chime in! I fluffied up your remark
 
Hey, I had a "Please!" :)
 
5:37 PM
As you may have observed, we have our first new repeat customer @KK.
@earl I think the please actually made it sound more menacing. Just how I heard it.
 
KK.
:)
 
Just joking, fluffying up is perfect.
Welcome @KK!
(See, no menacing please!)
 
KK.
Hello, earl
 
The exclamation point at the end was a nice touch.
 
Now let me see where I can put the chmod+x remark ...
Footnote to "no installation required", perhaps.
 
5:40 PM
@KK. Some background: earl and I are detail freaks.
And we debate things like fractional shades of gray on the build page.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think your current detailed discussion is on the right side of freakiness.
 
Well I did mention that Rebol is kind of the freaks, and that it should seek a closer bond with other freaks like the Haiku people or Plan 9 or other extremists. It's a Jihad of programming and we need to... uh, okay forget I said that.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Obviously, you both have been hurt by the present homepage. (I think I should use some other word than hurt, like "feel bad" etc)
 
@KK. I think "we hate it" would suffice.
 
KK.
Ok.
@HostileFork I think it's reasonable to question everyone's sanity working on Rebol :) - jan 18 at 4:12 by Graham Chiu ▼
 
5:44 PM
Another American cinema moment, from Airplane: "I mean...what is crazy anyway? Maybe all the so-called 'sane' people should be locked up, and the crazy people let out of the institutions to rule the world. Hmm. Uh. Well, maybe that's not such a good idea."
Carl is not a web designer but he seems to want to do it all "his way"
So the website is written in...guess what language?
You get three guesses.
 
KK.
@HostileFork you might find it odd, but my standard movie watching algorithm is: watch for 20 mins, go to imdb and read plot summary
@HostileFork Rebol
 
@KK. I overestimated the number of guesses you would need for that.
 
KK.
(since it is 3 guesses)
 
@KK. Yes, I'm the same way, but the things I like I watch many times.
I've seen Moon probably ten times now in its entirety. Watched A Beautiful Mind the other day again, and I'd seen it at least five times before.
But most things I'm content to read the summary, those are exceptions.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Me too. I recently watched a movie [Stranger than fiction](www.imdb.com/title/tt0420223/)
 
5:49 PM
@KK. "He cursed the Heavens in frustration"... "NO I'm CURSING YOU, YOU STUPID VOICE!"
 
KK.
@HostileFork Good things never get old.
 
Carl makes wine, as a hobby
He makes wine and Rebol analogies
Wine does eventually get too old. :-)
Rebol is not "the answer" but it has a nice ergonomic to it for this place and time.
 
KK.
@HostileFork Good things never get old.
 
Rebol and Red are worth finishing, I have decided.
 
KK.
Ok.
 
5:53 PM
We'll see if my biological host organism lets me live long enough. :-)
 
KK.
@HostileFork Whats the big deal, you've still got another 50-60 years left in you. I think.
 
@KK. Rather optimistic. My family history does not support your theory.
 
KK.
Our enthusiasm with Rebol does not support any kind of history. :-)
 
And biotech isn't really making advances, we're creating more diseases cancers and random shooters than we are longevity.
People need to slow down. Rebol is "green software"...it's appealing to people who think we must step back and understand what we're working with.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I think it is good. At least after listening to George Carlin.
 
5:58 PM
I downloaded a powerpoint player that was 36 megabytes. 36 individual millions of bytes that I can't do anything with other than go "duh, okay" and run.
How much can hide in 36 MILLION bytes I can't read?
That's just the player to say nothing of the presentation file.
 
KK.
Other languages now seem to me like packed tofu, and Rebol looks like plucking things from your kitchen garden and cooking them your way. (provided you are freaky enough to maintain a kitchen garden)
Not that I have ever had tofu.
 
@KK. ??
Really?
 
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