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12:03 AM
@Respectech please reply in ticket issue.cc/r3/1971 and/or issue.cc/r3/1972 with that suggestion. It's a good one, but it will be lost if just left here. If we follow your suggestion, 1971 would be accepted with rewrites, but 1972 would be rejected.
 
@Respectech Intended behaviour is positioning. I don't think FIND-MAX/value is useful, first find-max would be mostly just as good.
 
@earl but not first find-max/skip so it might still be useful. Still, cutting down on copies might be a good reason to not use it.
 
posted on February 26, 2013 by BrianH

[Wish] As mentioned in #1971, MAXIMUM-OF and MINIMUM-OF don't actually return the maximum or minimum of a series, they return the series at the position of the maximum or minimum. We need functions that *actually* return the maximum or minimum values, or when /skip is used, a shallow copy of the maximum or minimum records. The existing functions would be renamed (see #1971). See also #428 for

 
:7948630
@earl Agreed
How do I delete stuff that I posted above?
 
The down-arrow gives you an edit menu, but only for a short time.
@Respectech would you prefer that I copy your comment to CC, so that it can be discussed?
SO chat is ephemeral.
 
12:20 AM
@BrianH Using IE10 on Win8x64, I don't get anything from the down arrow, ever.
@BrianH Yes, please copy my comment to CC. I've been waiting for the past 10 minutes for an activation message from Curecode. I even checked my graymail.
 
@Respectech gah. I use Win8x64, but with Chrome.
 
@Respectech Try the up arrow within the edit time frame
@Respectech Does CC require manual activation by @DocKimbel ?
 
I use SysInternals Desktop 3 with four virtual desktops, and I have FF, Chrome and IE open at all times, each with different tabs on different sites. It's how I try to keep up with things. One of my desktops has two AltME's open (one for work and one for Rebol4).
@GrahamChiu I don't get an up arrow.
@GrahamChiu I don't know if Doc has to manually activate me or not.
CC does look like a good bug tracking system, though!
 
@Respectech What you mean? Your keyboard lacks an up arrow key??
 
@BrianH Our company (Respectech) offers cloud workstation leasing, so I use Win8x64 on one of our cloud servers. Pretty responsive, except videos are a bit laggy.
 
12:25 AM
@Respectech Also see the FAQ
 
@GrahamChiu Oh, the up arrow KEY. I was looking for an up arrow WIDGET.
@GrahamChiu The problem, no longer, is the absence of information. It is knowing how, when and where to access the information. So the information regarding the SO chat is in a FAQ on the subject of R3 on a Wiki on HostileFork's account on Github. Why didn't I think about that? ;-)
 
@GrahamChiu Usually no, but the mail relay server used by CC is a custom one written in Rebol, so it's not supporting well some other older mail server. I will activate it manually in a minute.
 
@DocKimbel Thanks! Great job on CC using Cheyenne! I like the cleanliness of the site, but it still looks modern in a utilitarian sort of way. I especially like the absence of ads. :-)
 
@Respectech Thanks Bo! Activation: done.
 
posted on February 26, 2013 by BrianH

[Comment] (From Bo in SO chat): I'd be more inclined to have refinements of 'find-max and 'find-min. Which is the expected behavior? If it is to return the position, then maybe have 'find-max for the position and 'find-max/value for the value. If it is to return the value, then have 'find-max for the value and 'find-max/pos for the position. I think it is better to keep the name-space less cl

 
12:31 AM
@Respectech Have a look at the stats page (Main tab once logged in). ;)
 
@Respectech That's why we put it prominently here in the FAQ since the help button at the bottom right does not mention this
 
Could someone review this article? dl.dropbox.com/u/23612064/sample.html
 
I wonder if it's simpler for a bot which executes rebol commands to just submit to Kaj's try-rebol page and return the result? Afterall he already has the infrastructure ready.
@SomeKittens It should be rebol binary not rebol source
 
Sorry, thought I fixed that
anything else?
 
@SomeKittens The double-spacing between sentences is awkward.
 
12:40 AM
@SomeKittens Nice intro.
 
][ => |
 
Ooh, good catch
 
ie. the explanation of parse doesn't match the parse rule
 
@Respectech I'm writing a reply to your comments in the ticket now.
 
@earl There's really only triple-spacing between the non-code and code segments. I think that looks fine. Double-spacing between the other sentences seems to be pretty standard.
@BrianH Thanks!
 
12:42 AM
@Respectech Between sentencens, not paragraphs. `  ` in the HTML.
 
@SomeKittens Download the Rebol source Should be "binaries", not source.
@SomeKittens Same remark for the source is only half a megabyte.
 
@DocKimbel Fixed
 
"Anyway, don't forget to chmod +x if you're on a good operating system."
The Amiga and Windows don't require chmod +x ... dunno about Haiku
 
@DocKimbel Thanks!
 
@SomeKittens You're not consistent in your way of writing REBOL and sometimes Rebol, pick one and stick with it. ;-)
 
12:47 AM
@GrahamChiu I was just giving you guys a hard time. :-) It's kinda funny how nested things can get sometimes.
@GrahamChiu I understood his dig at Windows... ;-) But I take offense that it also includes Amiga! :-/
 
@SomeKittens javascript version is a lot longer than it should be but it's very nice :)
 
@earl Sorry. I misinterpreted to what you were referring.
 
@earl Yeah, that's auto-generated by blogger
 
Anyone want to pay my bills so I can code in Rebol full-time?
 
@SomeKittens Nice introductory article to Rebol, good job! :)
 
12:50 AM
I promise to write a bunch of useful stuff! :-)
 
@SomeKittens Ah, so you two-space your input, and Blogger thinks it ought to preserve that :) ?
 
@earl Writing essays has ruined me
 
"parse "abc" [any ["b" (print "world!") | "a" (prin "Hello ")]]" is just as easily expressed in JavaScript, parse is so much more powerful than this
 
@earl How many kittens are there here?
 
@GrahamChiu Some.
 
12:51 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Suggestions welcome
 
An indeterminate number that is constantly changing.
 
posted on February 26, 2013 by BrianH

[Comment] Firstly, the purpose of FIND-MAX and FIND-MIN (#1971) would be to return the position, and of this proposal to return the value. So the alternative would be to make these functions a /value option for FIND-MAX and FIND-MIN. As for "like functionality", I was thinking that these functions would actually call FIND-MAX and FIND-MIN to find the position of their results, then call FIRST

 
This takes a mathematical expression and checks if it's a valid one, it's just 5 lines of code, JS would take much more
 
Block parsing is so much more interesting than string parsing
 
12:52 AM
@Respectech done :)
 
@BrianH Thanks!
 
and since you can execute rebol code inside a parse statement you can switch between block and string parsing
 
Anything that's regular (as in regular language) does not illustrate the true power of parse
ag-parser: make object! [
    tags: make block! 100
    text: make string! 8000
    html-code: [
        copy tag ["<" thru ">"] (append tags tag) |
        copy txt to "<" (append text txt)
    ]
    parse-tags: func [site [url!]] [
        clear tags clear text
        parse read site [to "<" some html-code]
        foreach tag tags [print tag]
        print text
    ]
]
That, while it's really not accurate (don't put this on a blog, it doesn't handle edge cases well at all) illustrates Rebol strength. In JS that would be a lot more trouble
 
I think I'll add the math one
Do you know of an example in another language?
 
I can write one in JS if you'd like
 
12:57 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sure!
 
Gimme 20 minutes :)
 
How do you want to be known? Just "Benjamin Gruenbaum" or do you want a link?
 
It's Gruenbaum, I don't need copyright attribution that's ok :)
 
Just wondering if you wanted me to link to a personal blog, etc
 
Nope, that's ok :)
 
1:13 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Parsing HTML tags is even easier in R2: load/markup is built-in. Perhaps one day in R3 too. Or perhaps not, given how easy it is to do.
 
@Jina I'm impressed by the ability to build your own syntax, I assure you parsing HTML is pretty easy in JS.
 
@Jina decode 'markup in R3.
 
Alright, what did I do wrong?
I'm trying the example in the docs but it's returning false
In R3
 
Almost done
 
That's good!
decode 'markup read http://www.rebol.com
 
1:23 AM
woah, nice
 
@SomeKittens don't know what's wrong but, for debugging/reference, it works in R2.
 
@SomeKittens it's almost done, jsut got to replace if with whiles jsbin.com/omubiz/2/edit
 
@SomeKittens remove the spaces .. and it's true
 
Should I file a bug?
 
@SomeKittens No. I don't think those pages will ever get updated
 
1:29 AM
@Jina this will work too: load/type http://rebol.com/ 'markup
 
@GrahamChiu I mean, should it work with spaces/how can I make it work with spaces?
 
Just curious, haven't fully been following the conversation—would 'quote be useful in 'parse? parse [1 2 3][thru quote 3]
 
For now, a work around
parse trim/all "1 + 2" expr
 
@rgchris we have quote in parse already, but it doesn't work with to or thru - those operations take special rules. Try parse [1 2 3] [thru [3]] instead.
 
@Jina thanks
 
1:32 AM
@SomeKittens No, I think that's as intended. R3 no longer ignores whitespace automatically (except for the trivial splitting operations).
 
@BrianH Ok, wasn't sure—good to know.
 
>> parse "a " [ "a" end ]
== true for Rebol2 but not Rebol3
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum All of the ifs?
 
so Rebol3 parse acts like parse/all in Rebol2
 
@GrahamChiu For anything but simple splitting, yes.
 
1:36 AM
@GrahamChiu how to get whitespace ignored in PARSE without TRIM preprocess?
 
@earl Got an example where parse and parse/all differs in R3?
 
>> parse "1, 2, 3" ","
== ["1" "2" "3"]
>> parse/all "1, 2, 3" ","
== ["1" " 2" " 3"]
 
@GrahamChiu and it ignores the /all option too, so you can write your R2-compatible rules using /all and the code will mostly work in R3.
 
>> parse " " none
== []

>> parse/all " " none
== [" "]
That is R3 exampl
 
I found the default parse useful in R2 .... no way of restoring that in R3?
 
1:38 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum moving your example to a fiddle, their embeds work better
 
It's not done yet :)
 
@GrahamChiu nope. There was an /ignore stuff proposal issue.cc/r3/1080 but I think it will be rejected.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum oops! Let me know when it is
Meanwhile, I'll be thinking up ways to get everyone to watch this
 
@BrianH rejected by whom? yourself?
 
@GrahamChiu by Carl, because the overhead was too high.
 
1:44 AM
As can now be seen, it's going to involve a lot of rewriting of sample code
 
@BrianH this makes parsing dialect harder as whitespace must be eliminated first?
 
Had a !== instead of a ===, wasted 20 minutes of my life :(
@SomeKittens you can remove all the comments, it seems to work now
 
@Jina not really, for two reasons. First, dialects are parsed with block parsing, and that doesn't have whitespace as a concept; whitespace only applies to string parsing, which isn't considered a "dialect" by Rebol's standard definition. Second of all, when you have Unicode strings the definition of what constitutes "whitespace" is subject to some debate, and what you want to ignore will vary based on circumstances.
 
@SomeKittens You should note that it can be shortened but it would still have to include those while loops and explicit recursive descent and that there is probably no way to make it nearly as clean as in Rebol
@SomeKittens last line should be parse(tokenizer) and not expr(tokenizer)
 
@BrianH thanks. what is easy solution to somekittens? parse failure?
 
1:54 AM
@Jina that is why I suggested an /ignore stuff option instead, which would let you be more specific about what you wanted to ignore. But either way, Carl was likely right about the performance issue.
@Jina I'm sorry, I interpreted that as "parsing dialects", or using parse to process dialects. That is where my "not a dialect" comment came from. Rebol "dialects" are generally considered to be semantic interpretations of Rebol data (usually in blocks). Syntactic interpretations of string data are considered to be full languages. Not skipping whitespace in string data is not much harder than Unicode issues already make string parsing.
@Jina link? I missed that message.
 
PROBE PARSE returns false in example owing to white space in string
http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-15.html#section-6
 
Ignoring whitespace is not necessarily the best approach anyway. It's often better to just do something like any whitespace for your definition of whitespace at the places where it is safe to ignore it.
@Jina ah, OK. A failure in R3 of a parse rule in a document written for R2 over 10 years ago and not updated since then. The main way we recommend to stay compatible between R2 and R3 in your parse rules is to write them to use parse/all in R2, then let /all be assumed in R3. Or you could use trim/all if you want to use old rules.
 
2:13 AM
TRIM/ALL may compromise data if it contains quoted strings where white space is important
{ something something "two spaces are meaningful here" something}
chat.stack removed my double spaceing :-)
 
@Jina as can rule-based parse without /all if you don't write your rules correctly (actually, it can be impossible to write them correctly in some non-/all cases). If spaces matter in some cases and not in others, ignore them explicitly where it's safe to do so.
 
@BrianH how to update exampl parse rule to ignore all white space?
 
Sorry, can't write it here, there are edit time limits.
expr:    [term ["+" | "-"] expr | term]
term:    [factor ["*" | "/"] term | factor]
factor:  [primary "**" factor | primary]
primary: [any ws some digit any ws | "(" expr ")"]
digit:   charset "0123456789"
ws:      charset [#"^(00)" - #" "]
That will work for ASCII whitespace. For Unicode whitespace, you'll need to define what whitespace is for you. And watch out, charsets aren't sparse in RAM, so it might be a large charset if you go off the standards and include everything in one charset. It might be better to write it as a rule.
 
2:30 AM
close, but not quite. must not have whitespace around () unlike example
>> parse "(1)+ 1" expr
== true

>> parse "(1) + 1" expr
== false
 
@Jina right. Put any ws on either side of "(" expr ")" as well. Keep in mind that Rebol source itself only uses ASCII whitespace, not Unicode whitespace, so even if we added back the R2 behavior it would still be wrong in some circumstances whether we added it as ASCII or Unicode. Unicode makes the whole concept iffy.
 
@BrianH thanks. but not unicode strings could be simple with /ignore like in r2?
 
@Jina just because you're parsing a Unicode string (internally) doesn't mean that you are parsing by Unicode rules, and parse can't assume that you are. For backwards compatibility, it would have to assume that you are not parsing Unicode rules. And check issue.cc/r3/1080 - it was an /ignore stuff option, not an /ignore option. The stuff to ignore was provided in a parameter.
For Unicode parsing you often have to use rules instead of charsets because the charsets would just be too big for your memory. Unicode really does make things more tricky.
expr:    [term ["+" | "-"] expr | term]
term:    [factor ["*" | "/"] term | factor]
factor:  [primary "**" factor | primary]
primary: [any ws [some digit | "(" expr ")"] any ws]
digit:   charset "0123456789"
ws:      charset [#"^(00)" - #" "]
That's not very efficient because it's written in an LR way rather than LL, but it will work.
 
KK.
2:49 AM
@HostileFork Thanks for the kind words and the religious rant.
@SomeKittens Great post. Cool comparision between js and rebol. (it is js, no?)
 
3:18 AM
@KK. Yup, real JS
The article will go live tomorrow
 
KK.
@SomeKittens I too am working on an article, trying to make it live today or tomorrow.
 
What's your blog?
 
KK.
I can link to yours since it is an intro to parse.
@SomeKittens A personal blog, and starting a rebol blog now.
2
I want to change the name to something better, but since its blogspot, there's no worries :-) I can do it later too
 
nice!
 
KK.
@SomeKittens thanks. not as nice (in terms of content) as yours, but I hope it'll live.
 
3:25 AM
You took a different route, not necessarily the wrong one.
It'll be good to attract all kinds
 
KK.
@SomeKittens Yes, I too think the same.
Also, it will be good in the sense that if nothing else, I am adding google search results for Rebol :-)
 
\o/
@RebolExperts Has any effort been made to get Rebol into the package repos for Linux distros?
 
I think MaxV might have talked about it
 
3:42 AM
So there is interest? That's something I could look into
Installing is fairly simple, but getting a ppa would give some familiarity
 
4:00 AM
@SomeKittens It seems like a good candidate for unstable branches at the moment, at least until we hit beta. It might be a good idea to start those conversations though.
 
posted on February 26, 2013 by BrianH

[Wish] The current FUNCTION function is almost never used, and not really useful - it's just a version of FUNC with unnecessary overhead. The FUNCT function with its local word gathering is used much more often, especially in R3 code, about as often as FUNC. However, as Fork likes to remind us several times a day for months on end, FUNCT is a bit of an ugly name, especially for so useful a fun

 
@HostileFork happy?
 
@RebolBot you here today?
 
@Graham Chiu echo: @RebolBot you here today?
 
@BrianH Don't you think it's a bit personal to put all of that in?
@RebolBot do you agree?
 
4:13 AM
@Graham Chiu echo: do you agree?
 
@GrahamChiu it shows the importance of the request, which is mostly social. And I asked @HostileFork to make the ticket many times. Fortunately, I know he can take a joke :)
Bot is messing up the echo's @ user ref. Does it notify you, Graham?
 
Ok, bot needs to remove spaces from user names
@RebolBot have you removed the spaces yet?
 
@GrahamChiu echo: have you removed the spaces yet?
 
@RebolBot that's better ..
 
@GrahamChiu echo: that&#39;s better ..
 
4:22 AM
html entity?
iso8859-1
@RebolBot I have removed the iso8859-1 from accept-charset so it's good now?
Looks like SO chat ignores that ...
 
@GrahamChiu echo: I have removed the iso8859-1 from accept-charset so it&#39;s good now?
 
4:41 AM
The encoding shouldn't matter, since that character is ASCII.
 
why is it coming back like that for?
 
Special casing? Though I don't know why that would special-case in HTML, since it's not special there. Escaping ' is more of a SQL thing. Wait, is this data coming from a tag attribute that is declared in single-quoted syntax?
 
It's being returned as JSON
{"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1361940074,"content":"The encoding shouldn\u0026#39
;t matter, since that character is ASCII.","user_id":2016426,"user_name":"BrianH
","room_id":291,"message_id":7950353},
 
@GrahamChiu Special-case encoded twice. First as a HTML entity, then the & of that entity as a JSON escape code. I guess Bot will need to take that into account.
 
Using @rgchris load-json ...
 
4:50 AM
@RebolBot how do you represent &#39; typed directly?
 
@RebolBot hope it's okay now ... but this is not the main purpose of the bot. It's to execute simple Rebol3 code
 
The ' character is found fairly often in Rebol code, so it's better to get this out of the way now.
 
@BrianH echo: how do you represent &amp;#39; typed directly?
@GrahamChiu echo: hope it's okay now ... but this is not the main purpose of the bot. It's to execute simple Rebol3 code
 
OK, so it looks like you can special-case decode HTML entities yourself. Explicitly typed entities don't pass through without being encoded first, and that encoding prevents them from being real entities in your code.
 
So, I'll need a lookup table of these HTML entities
 
4:56 AM
Perhaps just amp and numeric entities at first?
 
KK.
@Bajaj Hello. I am from Kharar.
 
@KK. im from mohali
 
KK.
etthe kitthe aa gaye?
 
hello
 
KK.
@Bajaj Yes. saw on your profile. :-)
 
4:57 AM
@KK. yar galti naal he aa gya
:)
 
English or Rebol languages here guys
 
KK.
@Bajaj Koi na. Hun aa hi gaye tan thodi der ruk jao. Rebol ek vadiya language hai.
 
posted on February 27, 2013 by BrianH

[Comment] This request may have been written in a humorous way, but it is a serious compatibility issue and a somewhat less serious marketing issue. There seems to be a bit of a community consensus building around not liking the name "funct", but liking what it does quite a bit. And no-one seriously uses the FUNCTION function anymore. Even the people who have admitted to using FUNCTION (like La

 
KK.
@GrahamChiu :-) :-) @Bajaj said he got here by mistake. I told him that if it was by mistake then still he should stay here for a while.
 
@KK. ruk jana haan ...rebol hmm...sikhao
 
KK.
5:00 AM
@Bajaj First of all you will need to download the interpreter.
Smallest language download ever :-)
 
Or here, if you're living on the edge: rebolsource.net
 
KK.
@Bajaj Rebol is an open source, Apache 2.0 licensed language.
 
@KK. ok ..
 
KK.
@Bajaj I worked at deftsoft for 6 months.
Have you downloaded it?
 
@KK. im worked at iApp Technologies mohali
 
5:04 AM
@GrahamChiu are you going to run this on a small Amazon instance like you were saying yesterday?
 
ios developer
 
KK.
@GrahamChiu [in Punjabi] ruk jana haan Ok, I will stay ...rebol hmm... [In Hindi] sikhao Teach me.
 
@GrahamChiu i will stay in room
 
@KK. hey
 
KK.
@Bajaj I too worked as an ios developer. So looking at lots of [][][] will not hurt you.
 
5:05 AM
can u tell me how to start with the rebol language ?
 
KK.
@Gill-TheIronMan Hello Gill bhaji.
Just download it from here. and then you can start.
 
Any basic tutorial ?
 
KK.
@Gill-TheIronMan @Bajaj I am a noob here.
@Gill-TheIronMan Rebol in 10 steps
 
@Adrian Not much point until I can safely execute R3 code
It's just running on my desktop at present .. sleeps for 30 seconds and then reads the last 10 messages
 
You can try like I suggested, with Sandboxie - if you're running windows
 
KK.
5:08 AM
@Gill-TheIronMan @Bajaj You can see from the 10 steps link that Rebol has a lot of types.
 
@Adrian can that kill a process that starts to consume 100% of a core?
 
no
 
?
@KK. which editor is used
in rebol language
 
@Adrian I have a safe way .. just need to get the OK
 
but you could assign a lesser priority to the process
OK for what?
 
KK.
5:10 AM
@Bajaj You don't need an editor. Any text editor will do. You can type in the interpreter for now. For later, stackoverflow.com/questions/3926398/…
I am currently using windows, and am using Programmers' notepad
 
@Adrian permission ...
 
KK.
@Bajaj @Gill-TheIronMan I made you people download Rebol 2. The currently developed version is Rebol 3. A compiled language, Red is in the works too.
 
@Adrian Can talk on Altme if you're around
 
@KK. yes sir ..now im little bit busy iwill disscuss later
 
KK.
@Bajaj Just come to this room whenever you have time. Lots of helpful people here, and some core developers hang out here too. Just type Hello @HostileFork and you can learn Rebol :-)
 
5:15 AM
@KK. thnks bro
 
KK.
@Bajaj Koi na veerje.
 
posted on February 27, 2013 by BrianH

[Comment] Ticket created for the MAXIMUM-OF and MINIMUM-OF naming issue: #1971

posted on February 27, 2013 by BrianH

[Comment] Ch.Ensel (aka ChristianE) suggested that these be named AT-MAXIMUM and AT-MINIMUM instead in #1818. However, the functions don't really seem related to AT. For AT, you already know and specify the position; for these functions, you are trying to find the position. These really seem like they're more related to FIND.

 
KK.
@GrahamChiu [Punjabi] Koi na veerje. No issues, (elder) brother (I make it sound very formal)
 
@Bajaj looks like rebollers never found an editor they did not like. use any one that you want. rebol.com/editors.html
 
KK.
Paradise: me talking to two Indian guys in this room :-)
 
5:18 AM
Like kk I use programmer's notepad with the rebol syntax scheme for colors
 
KK.
5:29 AM
@Jina I take it you too are an old time Reboler like most others in this room.
 
Sublime Text is really nice too
you can use @rgchris's TextMate bundle with it
 
@KK. used it a little over the years, yes.
 
KK.
@Jina Really friendly community. People in this room are simply great!
I hang out in this room simply to talk to these guys.
 
@KK. good, isn't it?
 
KK.
@Jina Yes.
 
5:52 AM
posted on February 27, 2013 by fork

[Comment] You mock me. I will not be mocked. http://www.hulu.com/watch/19312 But while I try to recover from the mockery, I will do a little dance because I'm happy this flag is getting picked up...finally. I don't know whether Red made the change because of me talking about this all the time, or just independent realization. Doesn't matter, it adds another reason to why it's a good idea,

 
KK.
Is there a way to append a single character to an already existing character set?
I can do normal way, but it seems like hassle extra work for a single character:
>> a: charset [#"a" - #"z"]
== make bitset! #{
000000000000000000000000FEFFFF0700000000000000000000000000000000
}
>> b: union a charset [#"-"]
== make bitset! #{
000000000020000000000000FEFFFF0700000000000000000000000000000000
}
>> parse "karunesh-" [some b]
== true
 
append the character to the bitset
 
KK.
@GrahamChiu This does not work
 
>> test: charset "0123456789"
== make bitset! #{000000000000FFC0}

>> append test "a"
== make bitset! #{000000000000FFC00000000040}

>> parse "123a" [ some test ]
== true
 
KK.
>> append a "-"
** Script Error: append expected series argument of type: series port
** Near: append a "-"
>> append a #"-"
** Script Error: append expected series argument of type: series port
** Near: append a #"-"
>> append a [#"-"]
** Script Error: append expected series argument of type: series port
** Near: append a [#"-"]
@GrahamChiu Again, its my bad. I am using r2, so maybe 2 and 3 work differently.
 
5:58 AM
this is a Rebol3 channel :)
 
KK.
@GrahamChiu :-)
For r2, I will go with the hassle :-)
 
Did you guys see how brazenly BrianH mocked me?
In any case @KK. @BenjaminGruenbaum @SomeKittens I'm pleased to see y'all getting it. I wasn't willing to do a real publicity push for Rebol until it was open source, but it pretty much sells itself once you start using it.
We're all stressed because there is a balance between promoting something in an alpha state, when you have feelings of enthusiasm... but not wanting to get locked into design decisions you might want to change before things are ready. This balance has weighed on Rebol for a long time, and it used to be a "one man show" (well, one man who could ship the binaries, a lot of people contributed) and now we're trying to... not let it descend into chaos.
 
KK.
6:13 AM
@HostileFork I am feeling good in general right now. Have nothing to say :-) ;-)
 
So I am really happy to see the blogs, but I hope that the personal touch stays so that we only attract people who are willing to embrace the necessary spirit of flexibility. Kind of more of a "come get in on the ground floor of an emerging project" vs. "Here's a finished package, it's perfect, TA-DA!" contrast. There's a certain category of open-minded person we want and a certain kind of person we don't want who will complain when it doesn't work how they expect immediately out of the box.
 
KK.
@HostileFork You mean 1 guy-who-gets-it = 10 guys-who-don't-get-it
 
Complainers aren't welcome, basically, and we have to figure out how to not advertise to them. :-/
 
KK.
@HostileFork There is no advertising right now. Its only people who land here :-)
 
@KK. Precisely. Let's sort of keep it that way.
For now.
In 1.5 years I have predicted Red will be ready for bootstrap.
And if it's ready enough for that, it's ready enough to be "the new Rebol" for most (not all) applications.
And on another topic... um... why are the stars so random? If someone can explain why those things have been starred I'll leave 'em but... um... I can audit them and it's what I'm planning to do if no one explains why those should be sentences people read to catch up on notable moments in the room.
You have... ten seconds. :-)
(Guess I'm actually joking about being flexible. Those aren't good things to star. I'm going to delete them, I'm just wondering what they're about.)
 
KK.
6:21 AM
@HostileFork Thats unfair. People who starred these might be sleeping right now. :-) But yes, I too am a bit surprised at the number of stars.
You are already deleting!!! :-)
@HostileFork you parse read really fast.
 
@KK. I'm just trying to help people realize what starring is for.
It's a weird functionality but it has its uses.
It's because precisely people don't want to have to scroll through all the random conversations, you call out notable things. Starring something that says "Haha!" is not useful.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I hate it when others are right. (In this case, you)
 
When people complain that StackOverflow chat is hard to catch up on, they're not realizing the tools available, to make an ephemeral chat manageable... but you must use those tools correctly.
Without that management, sure, it's a pain.
But with it done properly, AltME is up a creek. It can't be anywhere near as good until it is rewritten completely.
I support that, but as an R3 app, not an R2 one.
And I don't think it's a good use of the time and energy of the best Rebol developers at this point in time because StackOverflow's people, moderators, etc. are first-class awesome devs who do this stuff for a living.
 
KK.
@HostileFork I've gotta admit, I kind-of star posts when I sense they are interesting or exciting, regardless of their importance in contribution to the overall discussion in this room.
 
When they jump the shark it'll be time to go, but they haven't jumped the shark yet. This place is practically spam-proof.
Only major point of contention between me and them is the 20 rep requirement to chat that no room owner can override, and they are doing this very much on purpose.
Properly playing our cards and having the right discussions in the right places would let us continue as necessary on any medium we needed to switch to at any point in time. They could shut this down tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference. This is what @BrianH and I are trying to say. The main thing is we need a Rebol Q&A scrape, a read-only clone of the data from the main site just in case.
@KK. I don't write things like this for my health...
0
Q: How to use Unicode codepoints above U+FFFF in Rebol 3 strings like in Rebol 2?

HostileForkI know you can't use caret style escaping in strings for codepoints bigger than ^(FF) in Rebol 2, because it doesn't know anything about Unicode. So this doesn't generate anything good, it looks messed up: print {Q: What does a Zen master's {Cow} Say? A: "^(03BC)"!} Yet the code works in Reb...

 
6:33 AM
@HostileFork No idea who starred those ..
We are thinking that the bot could capture some of these things and post to CC or wherever
 
@GrahamChiu You've got an AI that can read an argument and post a coherent bug or issue report? Can I talk to it/him/her however it/him/her prefers to be addressed?
@GrahamChiu you see the room moderator deleting stars ability? Hover on one, you get a black drop down arrow.
@KK. "Do or do not... there is no try." -Yoda "Star or star not... there is no kind-of star." -Me :-)
 
@HostileFork AI is now refusing to talk to me .. I think you upset it!
@HostileFork nope .. I can unstar etc but can't delete. Can cancel stars .. is that the same?
 
@GrahamChiu Hrm, must be rep not room owner status then.
@GrahamChiu Yup, that's what it is then. Is "I found the default parse useful in R2 .... no way of restoring that in R3?" notable in your opinion? (You said it...)
 
@HostileFork I said it .. doesn't mean it has to be notable
 
@GrahamChiu Well it's up to you. I think with proper star curation the AltME complainers can experience something that gives them what they actually want, instead of what they think they want.
 
6:46 AM
But it's not clearly documented the differences between R2 and R3 parse
 
This has been my point. AltME sucks, we have new people dropping in and getting the spirit here. It's simply time to shutter AltME.
The "I don't care that it throws up a red flag and don't visit this site it's dangerous" attitude doubly emphasizes that the time has come. I have a plugin called "Web of Trust" and it doesn't trust Altme.com. And you can either fight it or realize that I don't trust AltME either.
@GrahamChiu I thought Carl has a big awesome job now. If Carl needs money, then why's he working.
 
@HostileFork And one of Carl's revenue sources
 
HostileFork - once again and for all - stop dehonesting the tool, which we have used for 10 years. Just because you lost your password and was not able to join does not mean other ppl don't use it for good. Unless SO chat stops to suck, some of us will live on altme. Show me private chat here, and multiple isolated REBOL only channels here, then we will talk ...
HostileFork - once again and for all - stop dehonesting the tool, which we have used for 10 years. Just because you lost your password and was not able to join does not mean other ppl don't use it for good. Unless SO chat stops to suck, some of us will live on altme. Show me private chat here, and multiple isolated REBOL only channels here, then we will talk ...
 
@pekr Skype me. metaeducation. I can not only chat with you privately, but show you what's going on my desktop. We can do voice, video (if I had a camera on this machine), etc.
@pekr I want a separate dev channel from userspace, I'm just afraid if we break it up right now the traffic status will not attract drive-bys here.
@pekr We are on the ground floor here. Look at the room number, 291. Make a new room and just look at the counter.
This is valuable real-estate! :-P Er, unreal-estate. Virtual-estate.
 
I don't like rooms being mixed. Why they don't create anything like REBOL room, with subrooms?
 
6:53 AM
@pekr It's not up to them, it's up to us. I just have not felt it was a good idea yet.
 
btw - the reason why I posted the message twice is, that it tells me, that my message timed -out, and offers new post. Maybe an FF quirk, need to restart ...
 
(Well, caveat being, ultimately, we are talking on the "stackoverflow.com" domain, and that means they control the channel ultimately, and then ".com" controls who stackoverflow is, and then there's the protocols... but... I could go on about it. But why do you think I own metaeducation.com anyhow.)
 
Add to a charset:
cs: charset [#"a"]
cs: union cs charset [#"b"]
 
@Jina @KK. wanted to avoid using union
 
KK.
@GrahamChiu @Jina Thanks to you both. In the end, I used union, just like Jina wrote.
 
6:57 AM
re skype - possible, but I have a meeting at 30 mins, need to move at work ...
 
@GrahamChiu That would be more of an R2 challenge
 
@Jina I don't want to bug you too much about it, people can make their own decisions, but setting your avatar to something non-gravatar-y helps differentiate you visually from random new users who join who I have to look up and greet. It's easy. As dt2 can attest, I'll draw one for you if you need. :-)
Speaking of FAQ issues, I think I'm going to consider the "who's who" a failure. I'm deleting that section now.
 
@HostileFork You do fuss so about your likes and dislikes. gets a bit weird after a while.
 
@Jina Well, I'm weird. So that's to be expected.
 
@HostileFork some of us like to maintain a low profile
@HostileFork And anyway, that's what user profiles are for
 
KK.
7:01 AM
@Jina try saying hostilefork is a human , I think he is more like this guy. . He probably thinks of us as puny humans
 
"ME HERE TO HELP WORLD BE LESS STUPID, MORE AWESOME. MOST FAMOUS ROBOT DINOSAUR ON ENTIRE INTERNET." Yup, that about sums it up.
 
@HostileFork Hey, I'll not be famous anymore!
 
7:17 AM
@rgchris got anything to decode html entities? My bot is having some issues
 
@Jina did a page refresh, got a hot air balloon.
Nice.
And @pekr picked a picture that wouldn't pass for my profile. :-) Nice, and try saying that 10 times fast...
 
@GrahamChiu Should do—use 'decode-xml
It doesn't do all HTML named entities—just XML, but I don't think that'll be a problem.
 
@rgchris Great .. it works
 
7:23 AM
And if it is, just add names to the map.
 
7:35 AM
@RebolBot help me Obiwan
 
@GrahamChiu FAQ
 
@RebolBot is there a Rebol tutorial ?
 
@GrahamChiu Introduction
 
@HostileFork Why not lead the way in leaving all the past behind? change your nic to SedateSpoon?
 
@RebolBot /x probe 1 + 2
 
7:42 AM
@Jina There are currently issues we're working out with Baby Spoon and don't bring him into this. So HostileFork it will be, for now. :-)
 
7:55 AM
@GrahamChiu >>3
@GrahamChiu probe 1 + 2
>>3
 
@RebolBot /x probe sys/*parse-url/user-char
 
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