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23:20
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Q: Avatar photo of a user too... Revealing. In a bad sexualized way. What should be the right action?

Ismael MiguelWhile browser the meta section, I've found something quite disturbing. Before anything, I must say that I am a male. And I found a female avatar that is too revealing. It shows a lot of cleavage. It isn't obscene by itself, but it isn't the right image. I know we are free to post the avatar we...

But don't we see more cleavage every summer day on our way to work?
@Pekka웃 Yes, we have more than enough outside. Why bring it to a respectful environment?
While I disagree with @Tichodroma on the "any way she wants" bit, he/she has a point in that if a (purported) real user shows a real photo of themselves, and it just happens to unintentionally show some cleavage in a way that is not overtly erotic and that we would find acceptable in everyday life in western civilization, it is not our business to try and censor it.
@Pekka웃 There's nothing wrong with a girl showing her features, but what's wrong is that it may disrespect some users (besides myself) and that it isn't the right avatar for this kind of website.
"Exposing the issue" - pun?
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I'm with @Tichodroma. As an hyperbolic (but sadly true) example, there are cultures that consider showing everything except women's eyes to be "too revealing".
@Jongware But the case isn't everything. the case is just the cleavage.
@jonrsharpe I didn't noticed it. No, it wasn't an intended pun. but nice catch. I will watch my language. I usually say that as the last sentence in a question.
Care to explain the downvotes? Is the question badly frased? Is the topic not 'hot' enough? Did I touched a subject I shouldn't?
If you're referring to meta.stackoverflow.com/users/560648/lightness-races-in-orbit‌​, by the way, that isn't a picture of the user. I'm not a fan of it myself, but it is hardly offensive.
@jonrsharpe It is offensive enough to me. But yes, that is the user in question. It wasn't my goal to reveal her, due to the sensitivity of the question. Can you consider removing the comment, after reading this?
@Daedalus Thanks for the link, I'm reading it right now.
That user is most definitely a dude. I think the Gravatar was/is meant as a social experiment of some sort. I vote for "ignore and go on", but you are of course free to raise the issue with moderators and/or Stack Exchange, Inc.
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@Pekka웃 As far as I know, it is a girl. There's no info otherwise and the previous was the same girl. So, I assume it was a girl. Should I edit the question to reflect that?
No, it is a guy. Used to have a photo of him on a site on his profile.
@IsmaelMiguel again, that isn't actually the user (see kera.name). It "wouldn't be suited for Facebook" - have you seen Facebook? Again, I don't like the "social experiment" - it's like seeing pin-up calendars on the walls of an office, it sends a message to others that I don't appreciate - but SO's policy on avatars is, as mentioned, very liberal.
A user has a geometric collection of pixels that I find offensive. It's far too square, not spirally enough, and I don't think it truly represents who they are, u'know, in themselves. What should I do?
@BillWoodger The last photo was a female showing her cosplay of Khaleesi. This time, it's the same female with cleavage. What am I supposed to assume?
@TZHX Does the square lead to sexualization of said square?
Of course you are supposed to assume the wrong thing. That's the idea. There's at least one other user who does the same thing.
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@BillWoodger Do you suggest that I edit the question to reflect that? The high number of downvotes will close/delete the question before I can say anything.
Don't worry about the downvotes on Meta. It's just people thinking "move on, try not to be upset about it, not many people will be". I'd not be surprised if Lightness finds this later. Whether he wants to comment or not is up to him. It is his business what he puts for his avatar. You can't please all the people all the time. If we could, where "please" offends no-one, the entire world would be drab, to me, and almost certainly wouldn't be what you'd expect. Images and ideas, circumscribe one and you circumscribe the other.
@BillWoodger That's actually hard to acomplish. I really can't stop being worried about it. Worst yet, the question had a massive rain of downvotes, with 0 upvotes.
+1 for raising this issue there must be some criteria for such images or an option to flag such image
@Navy I totally agree about the flagging. But currently, the best that there is is just flagging an answer or question.
@Navy I thought it was an unimportant issue not worthy of time to discuss it?
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I've given you a sympathy Upvote. Lightness hates that (although probably not on Meta). I realise that "offended" may well mean much more to you (as in meaning something actually specific) rather than how most people probably use the word (so many people think that I'm offended by various things that in normal public discourse the word has no content). I can sympathise with you on a personal level, although we'd put the blame in different places entirely. However, this is an international, public, free, site. It can't be, and shouldn't be, limited by non-"universal" cultural mores
Lightness Races in Orbit disturbs me too, but it has nothing to do with his/her gravatar:)
@BillWoodger I agree about it being an international place, but (extending my wording in a not-so-proper way) an avatar that is revealing and promotes a session of self-care isn't really what one expects here.
LRiO is clearly shorthand for "Lightness Races in Orbit", the user whose avatar apparently offends you.
@MartinJames: Isn't Wendy Padbury from Nottingham? And her character on Crossroads, too?
@TZHX Sorry the stupidity. I really can't deal properly with abbreviations.
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I sometimes think I can't stomach another armoured penguin, or what is possibly a character from some game I've never heard of, or some cutesy programming thing, or a picture of someone with husband/wife/girl-/boyfriend/partner. Let's all just be generated images. However, I have no problem with people using what they want for their avatar. If 51% of the community doesn't like something, fine. If 49.99999999999999999999% don't like it, and can't persuade another person to agree, then I'm afraid they'll need some type of coping strategy.
@BillWoodger But, if with very little effort and very little changes, you can change from 51% of satisfaction to 75%, what would you do? stay the same because 51% is happy?
I think the core of the issue is you feeling the need to masturbate when seeing even slightly revealing images of women. When you get through puberty, this won't be a problem for you. But until then it is a problem for you, not the rest of the world.
@TZHX Actually, I didn't. It doesn't matter what kind of sick and twisted needs I have. If it is relevant to your comment, I really feel no need at all with that particular image. I'm talking about it's presence here, not if I have side-needs. But I'm scrubbing in the possible sexualization. Masturbation to that image is a way to sexualize it.
Yes, but you could do the same to pretty much any avatar. Hell, if it exists there's probably been porn based on it somewhere. This is the Internet, after all. The image doesn't promote such a thing -- so your complaint about it seems to just be blowing hot air.
No. Firstly that is the route of Lowest Common Denominator (LCD). That is the Dictator (the would be StackExchange (SE)) smoothly arguing in liquid tones that everything would be fairer if we were all @usernnn with a generated avatar. The Dictator-with-a-heart decides what is good for the majority. The minority have to always argue for it. If they can't, then they only get it by being Dictator (which would require the overthrow or infiltration of SE). OK, perhaps I'm working the political analogy too much.
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@BillWoodger yes. Just stick with the nice pictures of attractive females.
@TZHX Sadly, I guess that is exactly what I did. No actions will be taken, probably
The core issue seems to be that "women shouldn't dress like that in a professional environment". Most of the professional environments I've worked in had at least one person who dressed equally "sexualized". Not just bizdev types; two of the best programmers I ever worked with were a girl who I suspect didn't know the difference between a miniskirt and a belt and a guy who wore mesh muscle shirts every day (in San Francisco weather, no less). It didn't stop them, or anyone else on the team, from writing great code. Or investors from giving us money. Etc. So how is it not "professional"?
@TZHX the genuinely offended are not just blowing hot air. I am being bigoted by reading too much into Ismael's username, but my guess would be that he (and my bigotry knows that he is a he) is actually offended, not "that's something I don't like and it's fashionable not to like (or some other reason pandering to some social situation) so I'll be 'offended', even on behalf of someone else"
@abarnert Thank you! That is the point! If it is to show itself/someone else, it should be a professional-looking photo with appropriate outfit.
I think you've misunderstood @abarnert's point
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@BillWoodger Probably. It's 11:00 and I slept 0. And what's wrong with my Username?
My point is that your notion of what's "professional" is parochial. At most companies in San Francisco, if you showed up to work in a suit (or even New York-style business casual), everyone would be laughing so hard nobody would get anything done. But just because a suit would be inappropriate to wear at my techy workplace doesn't mean it's inappropriate to use a picture in a suit on a techy website. And just because a low-cut top would be inappropriate to wear at your very different (but presumably also techy) workplace doesn't mean it's inappropriate to use in a picture on a techy website.
There's nothing wrong with your username. I just see Ismael and I think "someone for whom religion has a larger personal impact that it does on me". I see "Miguel" and think "in some former Portuguese colony". There's a lot that can be read into names, and a lot of that reading is wrong to various extents. Turn's out we're fairly close neighbours :-)
@abarnert You are right, it may be different. Where I work, that would be unacceptable since it could detour our attention to things that don't matter. But I asked guidance in what to do, I didn't asked the used to remove the photo.
"Exposing the issue, what is the right actions to take when seeing such avatar?" - well, erm. Unzip. What else?
@BillWoodger I simply like respect and everything is based on respect. Religion isn't important to me. In fact, I don't believe that there's an heaven. And Miguel may be based on said colonies, but there's nothing I can do about it. But I must say, you almost nailed it.
@sehe Why can't I zip it?
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@IsmaelMiguel: You need at least one other iterable to zip it with, or what's the point?
@abarnert I don't entirely get the reference, but if the unzipping has started, abort the operation and revert. Do not change it's state and keep it zipped.
@IsmaelMiguel: That explains everything. I'd be uptight too if I had to work in JavaScript and PHP instead of any of the other modern high-level languages that actually have high-level functions. :)
@abarnert You forgot MySQL, C# and Visual Basic. Not to mention Pascal. I've touched a little of Java, Ruby and Python as well. And Visual C++ and C.
@IsmaelMiguel: Ah, you need a using System.Linq before you can understand Zip. :)
@abarnert I think the programming jokes are going a little too far. The point was already passed: keep it zipped, don't unzip it.
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For the record, the image used is one of Alexandria Morgan, a professional model. It is not a photo of the actual user.
@MartijnPieters I was informed a lot late. And since the reputation of the question isn't the best, I decided to leave as-is, since it wouldn't improve.
Good grief.​​​​ Since you seem to care so much about "respect", how about not body-shaming people based on their gender? How about that? I respect your sensibilities but you must respect others', in return. I have changed the image to something that hopefully won't kick up a shitstorm — let me know in advance if there's any risk of another one.
Hold on, I've a picture of half a snowboard in mine, do I need to blur that out now so I don't accidentally offend any skiers? I mean, it's hardly professional...
@ivarni: Statistically speaking, that's got to turn someone on. You should be ashamed of yourself!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Gender has nothing to do with it...
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@Ismael: Then how come the second line of this question is "Before anything, I must say that I am a male"? And then how come the third line of the question begins with "And I found a female avatar that is too revealing"?
I also can't help but notice that you did not express any gratitude whatsoever that I voluntarily forfeited my rights and principles to make my avatar more "appropriate" by your rules.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because I was busy attending to your last request, to do not bother you and to ignore you. And didn't noticed it. But thank you for changing the avatar.
Well, you're doing a fantastic job of not bothering me and an even better job of ignoring me. Keep it up!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit After careful consideration I've decided to not change my profile picture AND be offended that you changed yours. Now what?! ;)
@ivarni Please, don't put more wood in the fire.
@IsmaelMiguel I am not prepared to accept that some people will act as decency-police on the internet and force others to behave after their moral standards. You shouldn't have started a fire in the first place. There was nothing offensive about that profile picture except the offense you chose to put in it. Don't blame me for starting any fires, look elsewhere.
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@ivarni: Now we have a problem!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, now we've seen a problem that has been around for way too long.
@ivarni: Bloomin' snowboards. Who knew?!
I've a profile picture of myself tailsliding a railbox, noone lifts an eyebrow. You'd a profile picture of a girl in a top and controversy ensues. None of those pictures have any business being on a site for professional programmers. One of them causes a ruckus. That's the problem right there.
Well, this was a great waste of time^W^W^Wbit of fun, wasn't it? Why don't we all just get back to coding?
@ivarni Someone once shared a piece of advice that seems relevant instagram.com/p/rFxl0bpfRS
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@ivarni Yes, it was a waste of time. This was one of the reasons why I didn't wanted to reveal the person in question. I knew that things would get sour quickly. But I had to ask. But I gave up a long time ago... A few hours...
I don't see how your behaviour is in any way justified by your original intention not to identify me specifically, especially seeing as you later abandoned that anyway.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You can read why I 'abandoned' it. I kindly asked the other user to consider deleting the comment. Did he deleted it?
@IsmaelMiguel: No, but the other user did not identify me as the user in question. The other user has nothing at all to do with your decision to remark "yes, that is the user in question". Why are you consistently blaming absolutely everybody else for the things that you do, and for the problems that you have? You may wish to check into that.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The goal of the comment what that the user who commented it would see and delete his comment. Then I would delete that one.
@IsmaelMiguel: You did not read my previous comment. Or, if you did, you did not understand it.
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@LightnessRacesinOrbit Which one?
@IsmaelMiguel: My previous one. Now it's my previous-previous one. Do you know what "previous" means? If not, here's a link to a dictionary: thefreedictionary.com
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The level at which you are trolling this user is astonishing.
@Jefffrey And I'm too stupid to stop because I must have the last word.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The other user asked if that was you. I answered. And kindly asked him to consider deleting the comment. That's it.
@IsmaelMiguel "And I'm too stupid to stop because I must have the last word." sure XD ...
@πάνταῥεῖ We must agree that the first 6 words are undeniably true. The others are kinda subjective.
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@Jefffrey I won't consider this "trolling" actually. As soon it really gets to an arguable level, it's arguing not trolling anymore.
@JoshCaswell I don't believe it was a "waste of time" if it made at least one person aware of the rampant sexism that exists in our line of work.
@Jefffrey: In what way am I "trolling", exactly?
@ivarni Are you saying I'm sexist?
@IsmaelMiguel Yes
@ivarni You are wrong. Very wrong. But what makes you think that?
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@IsmaelMiguel " Are you saying I'm sexist?" Everyone says so the last few hours. Didn't you notice?? What about looking at the glasses first in the original pic in question, instead of the boobs. You're sexist as can be dude, and all of the running down here (and elsewhere) obviously proves it :-P ...
@IsmaelMiguel The fact that you came into this trying to telll a person who you thought was female how they should not present themselves on a webstite, Would you have reacted to a guy in a tank top? would you have reacted to MY profile picture? There are so many profile pictures on this site you could have decided to react to but you chose one you thought was showing "too much cleavage".
@IsmaelMiguel And feel free to scrub whatever you want with the harshest soap you can get, if that pleasures you ;-) ...
@πάνταῥεῖ That wasn't the idea. But I guess I'm not fit for this website, right?
@ivarni Ever thought about naked snowboarding??
@IsmaelMiguel It's sexism from the very beginning. I tried to make this clear to you three times, in different ways. Just don't think with your penis and the problem goes away.
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@πάνταῥεῖ: Careful; he'll flag you for putting his mind into a state whereby he wishes to "self-care".
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well, some people might take scrubbing with harsh soap as redeeming "self care" :-P ...
@IsmaelMiguel morality is relative, your morality is not the internet's morality. Imposing your morality on the internet is, oddly enough, immoral! So within the legal confines of the United States in which StackExchange operates, the site will follow the laws there of.
@Mgetz The idea wasn't that. The idea was more like "what to do in this situation". But I guess i'm a sexist for trying to show that there should be a baseline for respect. Which, by reading the comments, clearing isn't such line.
@IsmaelMiguel: Yes, there should be a baseline for respect. You dropped beneath it right at the outset.
@IsmaelMiguel I suggest you re-examine the origin of your motivation, I think you'll find that it's not as simple as you seem to believe it is.
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@Mgetz It's ok, I gave up on this website. This is my last contribution. If this is a community, I'm far happier in hell. But thank you for pointing that out.
Oh, deary me.​​
@IsmaelMiguel If you're fit for this website or not is entirely up to you. If you want to hang around you're welcome to do so but you will have to accept that it is run under a differrent set of morals than the ones you're used to.
...and that the ones you're used to are stupid, antiquated, backwards, offensive, derogatory, prejudiced and male-biased.
@IsmaelMiguel Well, you've been trapped about being sexist in Tomalak's honeypot, that's exactly it's purpose as far I've learned until now with him. So your arguments will have a hard time to stand here.
@πάνταῥεῖ: Dude ... just... what? "Honeypot"? Now who's trolling..
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@LightnessRacesinOrbit I've always conceived your avatar being such "honeypot" for sexist based/gender biased judgements of actual content :-) ... Did I ever say you're trolling BTW?
I wish I had the unicode skills to tag you but if you want to see me snowboard naked please seek help. I'm a middle-aged consultant in a love-hate relationship with JavaScript.
🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌
TIL copy/paste is a UNICODE skill
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "Oh, deary me.​​" You've been boobing the OP away now :-P ...
@ivarni: Just press @ once, then TAB.
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@πάνταῥεῖ that is awesome! (btw sorry for the ping)
@πάνταῥεῖ No, I simply marked this question for deletition, with a printscreen of the entire page so all the comments are preserved. And this is the last thing I will say.
@ivarni "I'm a middle-aged consultant in a love-hate relationship with JavaScript." Shhhsh! This sounds too sexy actually!! (Do you still have full hair?? Well, let's stop this, the thinking alone turns me on too much, gotta get the harsh soap cleansing).
@IsmaelMiguel: Why did you take a printscreen of the page? Are you going to try to get people in trouble? Are you going to put it on your wall as a reminder so that you can learn to be less sexist? What's going on?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Shhhhsh! You sound so Domina actually!!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I took the screenshot and sent it alont the flag to delete this post. I've uploaded it to imgur. Here's the link: i.imgur.com/Motzekr.jpg
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@LightnessRacesinOrbit there needs to be something kept for the self-care sessions. :p
That screenshot isn't a great representation, with the text being pretty much unreadable.
@Ismael: It's very suspicious that you felt the need to "take evidence" of this thread, and to put it on imgur. Since it contains the personally-identifying information that you claimed not to wish to share with people, I request that you remove it immediately. Y'know, for respect.
@TZHX I somehow agree. @LightnessRacesinOrbit would you mind to edit the question to show the original picture question in please?
@πάνταῥεῖ Yes, I would mind. Unfortunately it is possible to tell that the image is of a woman, and apparently this is unacceptable. Sorry. I don't want to offend anybody.
@πάνταῥεῖ here you go 41.media.tumblr.com/af7363290b699046e9024be67497df41/… (Be sure to size it down.)
@sehe I'm politically incorrect and unscrupulous enough, to show in the question, what we're actually talking about. THX for the link sehe!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "... the image is of a woman, and apparently this is unacceptable ..." There's no way I see this unacceptable here. Seriously.
@IsmaelMiguel We can play that edit and rollback game along the rest of the night if you want to.
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@πάνταῥεῖ actually, no you can't... 5... 4... 3... 2...

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