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3:00 PM
@CodyGray That's when someone notices and their diamond goes missing for a while ;)
 
That (removing the diamond) is a manual thing.
 
@CodyGray Yes, a model.. with a murky and changing face.
 
@CodyGray You will say Where is my Jewelry? I am so busy today. ;)
 
It makes sense that the glasses would have a face to go with them, doesn't it?
 
@CodyGray It does.
But it will be powerful when it have a cool frame. ;)
 
3:02 PM
@CodyGray I'm just not convinced that it's your sock..
Especially since it was you that overturned their only declined flag to a disputed one :)
 
Yeah, nothing suspicious about that at all!
 
@CodyGray Yes, they all suspicious at all!
The next thing moderators will do; is to delete the website. ;)
 
So.. that was a stunt to make us think there's no relation? :D
@KevinM.Mansour Moderators don't do that. Regular users do that ;)
 
-3 silly downvotes.
 
One of the most common reasons for downvotes on Meta is whining about downvotes.
Although I guess complaining in a chat room, rather than on the post itself, sort of subverts that.
 
3:11 PM
@CodyGray OK, Anyway.
 
So.. I guess those downvotes are removing endorphins in your brain..
Also.. what is a "-1 downvote".. is that one upvote?
 
That's a good thing, right? I mean, you want to keep your brain off drugs.
 
I think it doesn't work properly without any endorphins.
 
@Scratte I am not a squirrel. ;)
441 suggested edit.
 
@KevinM.Mansour I think all animals have endorphins in their brain.
 
3:18 PM
@Scratte I am not an animal too. ;)
 
@KevinM.Mansour Hmm.. you're a bot?
 
@Scratte I think so. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour Nice!.. The extra caution makes you more likely to be a bot ;)
I guess you've passed the Turing test ;)
 
@Scratte I am a bot who thinks downvoting is silly on Meta. ;)
 
Is it more silly on meta than on main?
 
3:23 PM
@Scratte Yes.
 
Ok, so if someone posts a proposal, and you don't agree, how will you want to express that?
 
@Scratte I will downvote because I am silly at all. In my opinion, some people jobs is to downvote on Meta.
 
@KevinM.Mansour I see. I think no one gets paid to downvote though :)
I can see that I have 170 still registered downvotes on meta.
 
If you lose -1 on Meta as downvoting it will be great. No one will downvote questions again and when you lose -1 you will ask yourself 100 time before downvote on Meta no?
And it won't be silly. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour That would defeat the purpose of voting to lose reputation from not agreeing with a proposal.
That would mean that if I agree I can upvote, but if I do not agree, I will lose reputation if I want to express that?
 
3:35 PM
@Scratte Beacause if you really agree. You will lose -1 but if is not so it will be silly as everyone downvote.
 
I don't understand that.
Do you want to have separate meta reputation too? They have that at meta.stackexchange which is find to be problematic.
 
@Scratte If you really don't agree on proposal. So you will have to lose -1 reputation points, but if not everyone will downvote. because it is ......
@Scratte So they will be calculated over your Stack overflow acccount.
 
@KevinM.Mansour That's not a good thing. Because that means that people who do not agree will not votes as much. Then it will look like lots of people agreed only. That is what happens on meta.stackexchange. And as I said, it's a problem.
@KevinM.Mansour So you want +10 for upvotes too? That is just not a good idea either.
 
@Scratte I am didn't say I want 10+.
 
That would mean that you could just write popular posts on meta and get reputation on main.. but have no posts on main.
@KevinM.Mansour But you want everyone to express that they agree freely, but take reputation off if anyone disagrees? Do you not see how that will defeat the purpose of voting on meta?
 
3:41 PM
It is not a problem lt is a feature if Stack Overflow Meta like Stack Exchange Meta will be great. Just go there you will see none is downvoting but on Meta Stack Overflow everyone downvote which it is useless.
@Scratte That will make it better finally.
 
@KevinM.Mansour That's because on meta.stackexchange lots of people can't downvote because they do not have enough reputation. That was highly discussed during several kerfuffles. It's a problem.
@KevinM.Mansour Really? You want new policy on Stack to be discussed without users being able to freely express their opinion? Only positive feedback allowed?
Do you think the Thanks™ post would have gotten that many downvotes with your system?
I'd even bet that with your system, we'd still have this feature on Stack Overflow because people would be reluctant to vote.
Every suggestion would appear to be better than people think it is.
I think, you didn't think this through.
 
How many downvotes the Thanks announcement have?
 
I didn't count. A lot.
 
@Scratte Just say.
 
Basically what you're saying is that whatever suggestion comes on meta, people should be free to say Yes, but there's a penalty to saying No. So if I want to make the page on Stack Overflow tiny.. as in 100px wide only, I shall just phrase it like that "I propose to make the pages on Stack 100px in width". I know lots of users will not say "No" because they don't want the reputation penalty.
But all the user who agree is free to say "Yes". That is not a fair system.
 
3:49 PM
-1 is not a penalty.
@Scratte Also making upvoting with -1.
 
lol! Say you that keep counting your downvotes :D
If people get penalized with the reputation for participating on meta at all, we will have fewer people participating.
 
But real votes will be better than useless votes. no?
 
@KevinM.Mansour Which votes are useless?
They say that the sum of votes is a lot less than it used to be. There's not enough voting going on. I'm not sure if that is only for main.
 
@Scratte Votes (Both up/down) from useless people.
 
But in general, you want people to participate. You want them to be able to express their opinion. You want debate and engagement. You don't want them to avoid it.
@KevinM.Mansour Who is useless?
Maybe some of the users that read your post is thinking "This is not important" or "I like the wrap around" or some other thing. Then they voted with down.. how is that not useful?
And you can argue what you don't like your post getting downvotes, but at least someone read it and they cared enough to vote on it.
 
3:59 PM
@Scratte Thanks announcement post have -1115. I think half of who downvoted don't know what is this post about at all. If there is -1. 50 one will only participate (either up/down) but they understand completely What is this post about? And they understand what their vote will do for the community in the future and they will read posts very accurate and will think 100 times before participate.
 
Ermm.. I think you're very wrong about that. Lots of posts have been featured and they don't get close to that many total votes.
 
But every one says "Hey, The post have 1 thousand downvote. I will downvote too LOL!". That is useless in my opinion. :)
 
Saying that most of the votes don't count because you think they were just bandwagon votes.. is just your guessing. You have no way to know if that is true. I voted on that post, I read the post. I answered the post. Who are you to tell me my vote is a bandwagon vote?
 
@Scratte You understand well what I mean. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour You are guessing! Most posts don't get that many downvotes. So what's the difference between this and the other ones? Don't you think perhaps people actually cared enough to cast their opinion with a vote on this one?
 
4:04 PM
@Scratte I say that post as example.
 
It doesn't matter which post you take. It's the same.
 
Most of new people doesn't know that downvoting and upvoting is free of Meta. If people know. they will just make accounts to downvote on Meta.
 
You say that the voters do not read the post, they just vote in whichever way the score is.. positive or negative. That's a very narrow view of other users and I think it's very wrong too.
 
but Stack doesn't promote for that well.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Most new users have no idea what meta is. They've never even been to meta.
 
4:06 PM
@Scratte If they know. They will definitely go to Meta.
 
@KevinM.Mansour And how do you know this? Are you guessing again? Or do you have some actual data to back that up?
Propose it on meta.. you might get an answer :D And a lot of downvotes.. from people that never read your post :P
 
@Scratte Go to discrod and ask people and see their responses. :)
Stack Overflow Meta will be definitely bigger than Facebook but Stack doesn't promote well.
 
@KevinM.Mansour No. You make a claim, you need to prove it. I do not need to disprove your claim. It came from you.. out of nowhere.. it's on you to prove it.
 
@Scratte I know How humans think. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour I'm not sure I agree with that.
@KevinM.Mansour Except lots of stuff is deleted on Stack. Not on Facebook.
And you can't just post a cute kitten on Meta Stack Overflow..
 
4:11 PM
@Scratte I would call it "Downvote Overflow" Where people downvote.
@Scratte Soon you will can. It is just some time.
 
@KevinM.Mansour You're just upset people that read your post, put a downvote on it :) You're miffed, that's all :)
@KevinM.Mansour OK. I'll spend time with versioning then.
 
There is great community users starting from Scratte, Cody Gray, cigien, Oleg Valter, Spectric, double-beep, Sabito錆兎 and more that I respect them but also there is useless people who downvote without response.
I don't mind downvotes but kindly with comment.
Also same for Main.
 
Did you forget to read the post about why it's preferred to downvote without a comment?
 
@Scratte I won't read because What it will say? :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour :O ..you don't even know what it says. I'll even guess that you don't want that comment.
Do you want 3 comments on your post that says "I like it the way it is now" or "I downvotes because I don't want developers to waste their time on this"?
 
4:21 PM
@Scratte Yes, I am fine with that instead of downvoting.
 
Would you respond to those comments?.. Would you expect them to reply to your comments? Should you have arguments in the comment section of whether or not their vote is OK or not?
If I downvote a post, I don't want an argument.
@KevinM.Mansour Nonono.. you did not instead of.
 
@Scratte Their vote it is their opnion.
 
You said "downvote without a comment". And that implies that you want people to say why they downvoted. Do you think users will not reply to that comment, if it's made?
Do you think they will be pestered about having downvoted a post?
I think it's time you read the meta post about downvoting.
Because it seems you are having opinions without having done the work first ;)
 
@Scratte I won't reply to comments. I will upvote the comment.
@Scratte No.
 
If you don't want to educate yourself about the topic, then you will not understand it.
 
4:29 PM
@Scratte At least you will know reason of downvoting instead of downvoted post and you sit down guessing Why your post got downvote? :)
@Scratte I am fine learning but learning good stuff.
 
Heh.. you don't want to learn about it from the canonical. I don't know why. But it's wasting my time now.. if you want to discuss it with me, you'll need to understand it first.
 
5:11 PM
Anyway OK.
I will read it and see if it is useless or not.
 
5:30 PM
@CodyGray LOL xD
Can moderators see how many times someone has failed reviews?
 
Yes :) The only thing a moderator cannot see is what's in your votes tab.
 
@Scratte I think they can. :)
 
You think they can see how many reviews one has failed or you think they can see the votes tab?
 
@Scratte I think they can see the votes tab. :)
And also how many reviews one has failed.
 
@KevinM.Mansour I asked about this and it was told that they cannot.
 
5:37 PM
@Scratte Let's see what Cody Gray will say. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour nope I think only CMs can or something
 
@Scratte But they can delete your account and can't see votes tab.
 
Of course staff can
 
@Sabito錆兎 CM = Mod no?
 
@Sabito錆兎 No.. I think they also cannot. I think one needs to be a developer to see that.
 
5:38 PM
@Scratte Access to database I think. :)
 
@Scratte Hehe it would be kinda funny to see who is the best and worse at reviews 😜
@Scratte Wot? really? Nah... I think staff can :/
 
@KevinM.Mansour Community managers do not have access to it, as far as I understand. Shog9 had special access, I think.. and they do not work for Stack anymore.
 
@KevinM.Mansour yes, I think some of the staff has that
 
@Sabito錆兎 I said whole truth inside transcript and I think Scratte done too. :)
 
@Scratte Shog9 still has special access?!!!
 
5:40 PM
@Sabito錆兎 had.. past tense.
 
@Scratte Ah yeah, that would be crazy otherwise xD
 
@Sabito錆兎 No, he don't have special access anymore.
 
ye makes sense
BTW kind of a weird question but
why is Shog9 so famous?
Like I never met them so..
 
@Scratte But why shog9 had special access, he was Community Manager as all as far I understand the debacle.
 
5:42 PM
@Sabito錆兎 You will meet him one day.
 
@KevinM.Mansour What a.. what?!?.. make you say stuff like that?!?.. Seriously. How would you even.. ?
 
@KevinM.Mansour seems unlikely
tbh
I would love to though
 
@Scratte Huh..You will need to talk to squirrels since they are so patient. ;)
@Sabito錆兎 Sure. Just be patient and positve and you will meet him one day. :)
 
I just find that to be a really <censored> thing to say..
 
@KevinM.Mansour Still seems unlikely xD
 
5:45 PM
And.. here we go again..
 
@Scratte As in?
 
@KevinM.Mansour Seriously.. don't say stuff like that.
 
🤔 y?
 
@Scratte Hy?
 
@Sabito錆兎 Someday you'll grow a tail. Just be patient. It will happen. Someday your arm will be long enough to reach the moon. Just be patient. It will happen. Someday you'll meet this one special person that used to work at Stack Overflow.. Just be..
All of those things are equally likely to happen.
 
5:48 PM
@Scratte Good :)
 
@Scratte Ah I didn't mean in-person you know 😅 I meant in a chat or something
 
@Sabito錆兎 Ahh.. or something.. well, they post on meta sometimes. There's the superDownvote post. Is that meeting them? Did we ever meet?
 
Yeah I guess that is all we mortals will get :p
 
@Sabito錆兎 "Last seen 2 hours ago".
 
I'm pretty sure moderators do not have access to users' "votes" tab.
 
5:56 PM
@Scratte " Which I think is a bug, or at least a major oversight."
 
@KevinM.Mansour That is on the post itself..
 
@Scratte Hmm? I am not sure since I am did not read the chat. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour You can read it now.. the transcript is public.
 
@Scratte No, I will sleep better and when I wake I will read it. :)
 
They way I read that is the Cody thinks it's a problem that they cannot see who delete voted on the post when they're looking at the post.
 
5:58 PM
And the other posts also.
 
Here it is. Directly from a moderator. Makyen saying We do not have access to your tab=votes page.
 
@Scratte He might be joking. :)
 
I give up..
 
I will go for sleep. Bye and see you tomorrow. :)
 
Sleep well :) Trust your votes tab is private while you sleep ;)
@Sabito錆兎 Shog9 had an ability to write things so cryptically that one had to upvote it.. because it was impossible to argue that it should be downvoted ;)
 
6:22 PM
@Scratte Lol xD
I honestly flagged that super downvote question as Needs details/clarity
 
I've read some of the post about business logic until my eyes were dry. The phrasing makes it very hard to figure out what is meant.
 
Of course it was declined :p
 
Then I started noticing the same on other of their posts. I know people say Shog9 is a great writer, but I find that while they use words that mostly everyone understands, sometimes it's just very hard to understand the meaning.
@Sabito錆兎 Heh :)
 
@Scratte Business logic - I don't really know much about it.. but from what I understand it is just the main, business part of the entire app
@Scratte Same :D
I am glad I am not the only one :D
 
@Sabito錆兎 Business logic is just whatever logic is applied in code. Like the logic for when a post is removed from the close vote queue. Or how long it stays there.
 
6:26 PM
Yep the "main" bits :)
The thing that actually matters
 
@Sabito錆兎 You're not. They seem very charismatic. Which obviously is appealing to most :)
 
Yeah that and a long history of being on the site. People know and respect them
 
Yes. But history doesn't mean popularity :) Lots of people have been here forever, but.. :)
 
The writing style is unique too
I guess that is the main factor
And some images (like that apples/oranges image)
 
I need to make a git repository.. but I'm stuck on what to name it. And how to structure it :(
@Sabito錆兎 Images always makes people popular. I don't understand why.
 
6:30 PM
Hehe naming is the hardest thing honestly, my brain goes blank
@Scratte Yes! Images are magical
 
I just want it to contain my user scripts.. some of them are bundled in multiple scripts before the one big one at the end.
 
Best name:
Dump
I have a ton of repos named like that xD
 
Hmm.. what if.. I make it public? :)
 
Public dump xD
 
lol!.. that's not what I expected :)
 
6:33 PM
I am never making this public lol
 
I think.. I need a better name though. I thought of "userscripts"
 
10/10 very creative ;)
 
I know you're just teasing me now :)
 
:p
Name em bob. That is it. Bob. Best conversation starter ever.
 
"stpircsresu" then no one will ever work it out.
 
6:34 PM
Why do you have a repo named Bob?
@Scratte Hehe try zalgo with that
 
But zalgo will just annoy me when I need to access it :)
 
I wonder, does github support zalgo in repo names 🤔
 
They'd have to to make the French happy, no?
 
How about a name like this (not mine, forked from someone else)
@Scratte Zalgo has french characters? TIL 😲
 
When you fork it, does an update to it create a pull-request on the original one?
 
6:39 PM
No, you will have to create a pull request
 
Don't know if they are really zalgo, but they have è and ê and one more.. é
 
t̶̼̮͇̪͂͆̈̈̓̊͐̎̽͋̄̽͝è̴̢̡͓͔̰͕̑̈̇̈́͗͛̉̐́̎̊̊̀͠s̴̯̦͚̰̮̟̗̏͋̂̀́͊̈́̑͂̕ṭ̷̖̼̘̝̣͇̤̖̼̬͕̋͋̋̄̔̕͘̚͠ͅ
Zalgo is really weird though. I don't understand how it works.
I mean how is that even possible? ^
 
The germans and sweedes have ä
 
Yes but... how can you tower those up like that..
 
@Sabito錆兎 Every one of those is a mark that is added to the letter.
 
6:42 PM
🤔 Oh... and there is no limit?
 
When you keep adding those, they just go on top of eachother.. or below on next to, depending on the mark.
 
@Sabito錆兎 I'd expect there is a rendering limit at some point. Your computer running out of memory is one :)
 
@Scratte :O
I couldn't do 4 letters
The number limit exceded
 
LOL!.. I can still see that..
 
6:44 PM
Oh shot I forgot about that 😅😅😅
 
Ah this makes sense
So those are just stacked on top of one another
 
@Sabito錆兎 Some of those are below. Others on top.
 
Ah. Right
The weirdest thing is that the browser considers this one letter
 
I'm going to guess it's going to go on for a while :D
 
6:47 PM
Like I can't select the super/sub script... just the letter itself
 
@Sabito錆兎 That is not weird. It is one letter with marks on it.
 
Oh god I am so sorry xD
 
@Sabito錆兎 It's fine :) I don't mind.
 
@Scratte But... It still counts them in the character limit
Very weird
 
@Sabito錆兎 That's because the character limit doesn't actually count characters. It probably counts codepoints. And maybe not even codepoints, but bytes.
 
6:49 PM
Oh. What are those? -- codepoints
 
@Sabito錆兎 A codepoint is the unique number that any character, punctuation, mark, emoji, really any glyph gets.
 
Oh ok
 
Go to the links I gave.. you'll see characters/mark and a number on top of those.
That number (which is in hex) is the unique number.
Space has 0x20, linefeed has 0x0A, 0 has 0x30, capital A has 0x41..
 
Looks like this goes till U+E01EF
That is a lot
 
Most know that capital A has decimal value 65.. which is 0x41 :)
 
6:53 PM
ASCII value right
 
@Sabito錆兎 It's not a coincidence that they have the same value as ACSII. But those at codepoints.net are unicode codepoints.
 
Oh Ok
 
There's not enough values for ASCII to accommodate all the glyph in the world.
 
Do you use codepoints.net regularly?
 
So they came up with a standard. Unicode.
 
6:55 PM
Yep
 
@Sabito錆兎 Yes :) Every time I get confused about a character.
 
But like... where do you find these charecters?
 
Everywhere..
 
I doubt I'll come across any in my life time
Like look at this character for example... but.. you can't look at it... because it is just like a space...
How does one even look this up?
Do you just paste the character in the search box?
 
@Sabito錆兎 yup :) Or the codepoint value, if you want to know what the character is.
 
6:58 PM
Also do you understand that explaination? On the website?
Supplementary Special-purpose Plane -- what the
 
@Sabito錆兎 So, up until U+10000 a codepoint can fit in a word.
After that it takes 64 bits to fit them in.
That's when supplementary comes in.
 
:O
BTW here is something weird
See how Sabito is written here: kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/Sabito
I can't copy the characters above 錆兎
I mean I can copy them but when I paste them they disappear
 
You can see them at unicode wikipedia under Code planes and blocks
錆さび兎と <-- this is what you wanted to copy?
 
Yeah
How did you do that?
Copied them seperately?
さび
Oh yeah that seems to work
But why aren't they coming on top of the other letters?
 
@Sabito錆兎 None of them are combination or non-spacing marks.
 
7:06 PM
:O
 
Check out the elements in your devtools, you'll see that they are added separately :)
<ruby lang="ja">
  <rb style="text-justify:inter-word">錆</rb>
  <rp> (</rp><rt>さび</rt><rp>) </rp>
</ruby>
 
:O
wow that is even weird
o/ db
 
Ohh.. it seem I was wrong about the supplementals.
I was thinking of surrogates, which are used with names of Chinese characters.
UTF-8 can fit codepoints up to the value of U+10FFFF
 
Also from the this wikipedia page is says "A "character" can actually take more than 4 bytes, e.g. an emoji flag character takes 8 bytes since it's "constructed from a pair of Unicode scalar values".[15]"
 
7:31 PM
@Sabito錆兎 How do you fork a repository in GitHub?
Oh! Never mind.. there's a button for it.
 
8:13 PM
Why do people use lower case names with hyphens for files for userscripts?
 

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