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9:00 PM
If Karl's comments and the replies to them weren't rejected, mine shouldn't be either.
 
@Marco let's continue this in the meta room
2 messages moved from Python
 
I'm here, Andras, do you have anything to say about that sentence of mine (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/54678090#54678090)?
 
Ok
Bye
 
9:53 PM
@roganjosh That's not true, I asked Andras if he wanted to say something about what I'd said, he didn't want to argue. I was open to discussion.
 
@Marco please continue this meta argument in the meta room. Thank you.
2 messages moved from Python
 
Roganjosh asked me here, and I answered here.
 
I've already argued, if you want to discuss something with me here, I'm open to discussion.
Otherwise, I have nothing to do here. As long as they say something to me in the other room, I will continue to respond there.
 
You aren't saying anything constructive @Marco
 
9:56 PM
That's your opinion. Feel free.
 
What is it you're unhappy about? I asked you this last time. As long as you keep just being passive-aggresive in the main room, you'll get moved here
 
Just pay attention to my last sentences before they get deleted or I get kicked out of the room.
An example is not knowing the answer to this: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/54678107#54678107
 
We do pay attention to the messages but they don't express anything directly, it's just a way (seemingly) for you to take a dig at us
 
@Marco you misunderstand. When I tell you to come here to complain it's not because I want to tell you something. It's because I don't want to cause more noise in the main room.
 
This ("Karl's comments and the replies to them weren't rejected, mine shouldn't be either.") really don't express anything?
 
10:00 PM
If you start saying things here that need a response, you will get one.
@Marco your response had pretty much nothing to do with Karl's comments, so I took that message as your opinion about what should be rejected. You are welcome to hold that opinion, but I disagree.
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні You don't just has tell me to come here, but also throwed my messages to Python Ouroboros
 
@Marco which should be a strong signal to you that what you are doing is not acceptable in the main room.
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I disagree, I fully agree it's related
 
@Marco then we'll agree to disagree.
 
Fell free.
No problem, keep doing what you think you should.
 
10:04 PM
This is the attitude that is causing the problem
 
Should I say you shouldn't continue to do what youre doing?
 
As soon as any of us challenge you slightly, you just go into the mode of "this isn't a problem" rather than discussing anything
 
@roganjosh well to be fair what I'm hearing is "keep kicking me when I'm being a problem" which is something I can work with
 
Well, if you prefer to be guessing rather than asking me exactly what you want to know, feel free.
 
May 17 at 22:40, by roganjosh
Then let's rewind. You're unhappy, and the discussion has been moved to some place that is more appropriate for you to express why you're unhapy
 
10:07 PM
Don't you want me to discuss things here? Okay, do you want to ask me something? Because I have nothing to ask. I already had your answers to my problems.
@roganjosh Do you think I still need to say more things about what I don't agree with?
 
No, I think it would be nice if you didn't see everything as a confrontation
 
I think you guys are unhappy with what I write in the main room, right?
 
Which, from my own life, causes problems. I'm doing my best to handle this situation as not-a-confrontation
@Marco when you insinuate that the room is "toxic" then yes, we have a problem with that
 
Oh, I'm just getting messages moved here, or Ouroboros, or being kicked out of the room, for reasons I don't understand/I don't agree with, but I'm not that aggressive in seeing this as a confrontation.
 
Insinuating that the room is toxic is something we could discuss here. What Marco was saying is that SO in general is toxic, which is not something we'd want to discuss anyway, it's been discussed to death and has no place in the chatroom.
 
10:12 PM
Where did I say the room is toxic?
 
Andras is right, I was wrong there. Apologies, you didn't say that
 
Yes, ok
At no time did I say the room is toxic
 
Right
On the contrary, I said the room is perfect
 
yeah, that was certainly believable and honest
 
10:17 PM
Totally
 
Can we just stop here on this for a second please?
 
What you mean?
 
You just expressed problems with how the room is run @Marco so your comments about it being "perfect" don't make sense
Problems in terms with messages being moved. Are you suggesting that saying the room is "perfect" isn't sarcasm?
 
In general, I think it's perfect, to be more detailed.
 
It can't be perfect if you have problems with it. At least that part might be explainable by a language difference
 
10:19 PM
@roganjosh If it's sarcasm, what's the problem?
 
Because it will not be interpreted well. You can't say to people something is "perfect" after criticising it. That comes across as you being "smarmy" (I'm trying to find a better word that isn't so hard to translate)
 
I usually say "having an attitude"
 
No, it's just sarcasm. But rest assured I won't use my sarcasm anymore.
 
@Marco sarcasm is tricky because there's a lot of non-textual information missing in written communication, and if we add language barriers to the mix it's easy to get tones or intents wrong.
 
For sure
 
10:24 PM
For instance when you start talking about "the chatroom being perfect" when you clearly don't, without any prompting to do so, it comes across as wanting to start a fight. To be looking for trouble.
 
I'm just showing my displeasure, I'm not looking for trouble neither start a fight.
 
That might easily be the case, but that's not the impression you are getting across. Which is why I said that sarcasm can be tricky. I can only tell you what impression I get as someone who only sees your messages in context.
 
Ok, then it wasn't a language barrier. You just used a completely unconstructive way to express it
 
In a few minutes I will answer you, I will need to leave.
 
10:41 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні So the right thing to do is make the sarcasm evident?
 
@Marco the safe thing to do is not be sarcastic when you're already being reprimanded.
 
@roganjosh How I said, I was just showing my displeasure.
 
I'm not telling you what to do; you're still welcome to say whatever you want. Just a heads-up that certain things are more risky than others.
 
Okay, you're right, I should (if I want to) show my dissatisfaction directly to a moderator, correct? It really doesn't make sense to show my dissatisfaction to the own people who left me dissatisfied.
 
Depends. If you think there's something to discuss, you're more than welcome to raise it with the people who made you unhappy. But in this case definitely leave the sarcasm/passive aggressive tone etc. at the door. And you're always welcome to contact moderators too.
 
10:45 PM
Sure, that's what I'm doing here with you right now, discussing.
 
Showing your dissatisfaction "to the own people" in a way that's not constructive will almost certainly make your dissatisfaction worse. Constructiveness is key.
 
Of course, and self-criticism applies to everyone.
 
certainly, but as we agreed the room is already perfect
 
That's why I already said that I will no longer use my sarcasm or show my dissatisfaction in the room anymore. It makes no sense, it will never be useful. I was really stupid. :P
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I already said I was sarcastic about it.
I didn't agree with you on that.
I was sarcastic.
 
10:49 PM
Did you get confused with something?
(chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/54678613#54678613): So I apologize for being sarcastic and for showing my dissatisfaction in the room. I won't do this anymore. :D
 
I'm glad this has come to a happy conclusion
 
Yeah, for sure :D
applauses
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Thanks
So we're done here, right?
Thank you all.
:D
 
What a good.
 

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