« first day (1634 days earlier)   

4:00 AM
Kilr^WSloshy the Thawman was here!
 
 
14 hours later…
user22676652
6:26 PM
@roganjosh what impolite things have I said
 
1 message moved from Python
People have made a very sustained effort to help you, so to suggest that we were derogatory that you weren't a python "God" is unfair. People have put a lot of effort into helping you for months
 
user22676652
@roganjosh I said that because it feels like in the chat room I am expected to know everything of what is Python
 
I understand your frustration, and I don't take it the same way as Aran-Fey but it is pretty hurtful. You have had a lot of help and have contributed nothing back
 
user22676652
Because some of the things they talk about I do not have a lot of knowledge in.
 
user22676652
There is only a very few fish to fry
 
6:32 PM
@zoomingspeed no, but you are expected to do basic searches, not throw your hands up when you get the very next error
 
user22676652
I do search them up, but there isn't a filter feature for the internet that explains every single part of my situationm
 
@zoomingspeed so then, to better help the people who are trying to help you, just know enough to make it easier to help you.
 
user22676652
So it's either: A. this problem is very uncommon and does not happen very often or B. I am just being stupid
 
No, it isn't that at all
 
user22676652
I am aware of the people that have tried to help me but it is mainly Aran I get a problem from because it is very frustrating when someone is being completely rude
 
6:34 PM
The problem is you never find the middle ground because you seemingly don't search once you hit a roadblock on path B
 
user22676652
I do search.
 
@zoomingspeed they are frustrated and brusk but not necessarily rude
 
user22676652
Matter of fact, I ask multiple people, including one person that I know that doesn't respond very often, this chat, and I search on Google
 
user22676652
@roganjosh so if someone is engaging in a conversation with you and they say that it is a complete waste of their time and they leave
 
user22676652
Isn't that just a bit rude
 
6:35 PM
@zoomingspeed ultimately it comes down to your balance being out-of-whack in where you get your info. You're weighing too heavily on people and not developing your own abilities
 
user22676652
I am constantly fixing my code or looking at it as people try to answer
 
user22676652
That's why I was working on it an hour or two before I came here
 
user22676652
I was hesitant of asking the chat because an argument could've started again and look at what happened
 
user22676652
Everyone was trying to help me but Aran just completely said "Nope I'm outta here"
 
@zoomingspeed refusing to help isn't being rude though. Remember, all of this site is just a nonpaid effort made by a tons of people to answer and ask questions. Same for the chatroom
 
user22676652
6:37 PM
I am not expecting only him to answer me or hang onto people I try to fix my code as people answer me
 
user22676652
but I am frustrated at the fact that he just expects me to know everything when he asks me questions
 
user22676652
I have not been coding for very long, around a year almost I have been
 
@zoomingspeed I know that frustration as an old beginner. It's only been 2 years ish that I have been at least a bit comfortable in Python now. Still lack a lot, but, I can tell you honestly the way you approach problem solving isn't the correct approach in my own opinion
 
lol
what is your policy for removing messages, if I may ask ?
saying it's 50 yo average is too much for you?
 
you can't expect to always get an answer for every problem. I learned that the hard way, so I ended up solving myself most of my own problem, through relentless work. At some point, just the act of asking a question on Stackoverflow, before even hitting the button to publish it, you will already get enlightened and find the answer yourself because of how you formulated your problem
 
6:41 PM
No, the fact that I have actively engaged them in the other room, which I don't need to do, and you decided it was "hell".
 
so, what, can't I say that and you do ?
 
user22676652
That is why I said multiple times I try to solve the problem as people try to answer me
 
It's not relevant to other readers. Your message still exists but why should it exist here?
 
as I said, what is your policy for removing messages from here?
 
@MahNeh too noisy goes in the trash
 
6:43 PM
"It's not relevant to other readers." But there are others in the room rules
 
user22676652
As soon as I click enter I look at the chat room and my IDE and see if I can fix anything inside my code or see if there is anything I am doing wrong
 
yes, but you need to think deeply about this: how can someone receive help if they do not understand what the person trying to help them is saying? Once the question touch on Python basics, you just have to learn it and then come back with newer better question
 
who decides it is not relevant, just yourself?
 
user22676652
I don't like as soon as I click enter, just get a drink and snacks and eat them as I stare at the chat room waiting for someone to answer
 
There are multiple Room Owners
 
6:44 PM
@MahNeh you're not in a situation to ask antagonistic questions here. I know you're not curious, just want troublr. Please stop.
 
I disagree with 1 person removing comments he dislikes, it's quite insulting
 
user22676652
@NordineLotfi every time someone has done that to me I just simplify or at least try to simplify what I am saying
 
@MahNeh 2 but you decided to ignore the other one
 
user22676652
Aran just straight up refuses to help me afterwards
 
@roganjosh can you please move all that to meta? I'm on mobile.
 
user22676652
6:45 PM
It's annoying as hell
 
15 messages moved from Python
 
user22676652
When I ask my peers or teachers a question on how to do something, they straight up tell me
 
@zoomingspeed we have a 100% money back guarantee for unhappy customers
 
user22676652
Unless they clearly don't understand what I am talking about which by the way, I describe in detail what I am trying to do and leave an MRE, they ask me questions
 
I thought you were deleting your account, by the way
 
user22676652
6:47 PM
I am, takes 24 hours though
 
@zoomingspeed Which is bad. Causes learned helplessness and stunts your programming ability.
 
@zoomingspeed yes, but first, your teachers are paid to do this, your peers are likely facing the same issues, so that's another reason they are doing this. But people on forums/website that are not paid and only do this out of freewill cannot be expected to always answer
 
@NordineLotfi let me give you an alternative
many other people outside a classroom are peers
 
user22676652
@NordineLotfi I am aware of that, I don't care that he is not helping me, I care that he just straight up leaves me when he TRIES to help me instead of simplifying what he is trying to ask me or tell me
 
user22676652
If he knows that it is that simple to understand, then just tell me? Why do you have to put me on some sorta side quest or shoo me away?
 
6:50 PM
I think they should just create a python-beginners room
 
@zoomingspeed To build debugging ability
 
but they cant
 
@zoomingspeed Just so you know, an MRE isn't just showing the code you have where the problem is. You need to cut down your own code or remake another piece of code that attempt at doing the same thing, but have the same problem. Shorter is better. Once you get that, 1. you will have better understanding through pinpointing the error yourself and the cause, 2. others will be able to help better, 3. you might even solve this yourself at that point
 
@MahNeh there's plenty of fora for that elsewhere
 
user22676652
@Peilonrayz I know how to debug, but it also is not a problem if you just straight up tell me
 
user22676652
6:52 PM
I have learned at least a million things that way
 
user22676652
And it is also in the tone he puts it in that pisses me off as well
 
@zoomingspeed a single error in Python traceback isn't just a single error. It can be caused by one or even many sub error that isn't reported or detected, so you need to do the work yourself on some level. That require some basic Python understanding
 
user22676652
"Since you have no idea what you are doing I won't help you"
 
@zoomingspeed so you're telling me, you learned many things by having people telling you directly what you needed?
 
@zoomingspeed debugging ability isn't a binary, ability is a spectrum. I've not 'learnt debugging', I have much to learn still, but my ability is quite good. Where on the line would you put your ability?
 
user22676652
6:53 PM
Yes.
 
@zoomingspeed that, there lie the problem
doing so put you in jeopardy because you do not depend on yourself.
 
@zoomingspeed the implication is that you are aiming too high and must learn more basic things first
Hence the rejection from us
The hierarchy is python (-> web dev?) -> async bot framework, and you're struggling with python still.
 
user22676652
No, it is like this: I know how to do the homework the teacher gave me, but there is one thing that I don't understand and I need help with it
 
user22676652
If I ask the teacher and she or he or whatever tells me,
 
user22676652
then I learn it and thats that.
 
6:55 PM
teacher gets payed
 
@zoomingspeed You learn to depend on others, not yourself. Your teacher is failing you.
 
user22676652
It is just an example
 
We volunteer our time and try to make good use of it
in Python, 1 hour ago, by ThiefMaster
string = f"{translation}"
check_string = len(string)
string_check = int(check_string)
This here means you have too much python missing
 
i would try here discuss.python.org
 
@zoomingspeed and once there is no teacher to help, and your peers/colleague do not want to help, what then? You need to think critically. If you depend on others for every little problem, you won't ever be able to solve things yourself. I learned that the hard way and it would be good to do it too
 
user22676652
7:00 PM
@NordineLotfi that is why I have said that I try to solve the problem myself as others try to help me
 
user22676652
There have been numerous times where I ask someone I know a question on programming and they don't respond because they are busy or unavailable, and I solve it without them
 
user22676652
But if I have no idea what I am doing then what am I going to do?
 
user22676652
I don't sit back with snacks and a drink and watch the chat for people to answer, that is not how I flow
 
in Python, Jan 12 at 21:22, by Andras Deak -- Слава Україні
But you must start with learning the basics. Find a good basic tutorial and read it first. Not a "how to write a discord bot" tutorial. A "learn Python" tutorial. You seem to have been asking for help here for 4 hours straight (on and off probably). That's a lot of time and a lot of messages for someone in your situation. Patience is a non-renewable resource so I strongly suggest that you try to limit the amount of help you're asking for here, because people will grow tired of this fast.
read a good tutorial
 
user22676652
That is exactly what I did.
 
7:04 PM
@zoomingspeed I don't think you're understanding what I mean by what I said earlier. Look at the various questions on my account. Now ask yourself, did I actually, truly have the same problem or even used the same code you're seeing on my questions? No. It's all made through MRE. You need to separate yourself from the problem, then make it manageable until you know what you know and don't know, and the possible cause for the error. Doing so is just thinking critically.
Knowing more basics of Python is the first step. From there, just thinking for a decent amount of time and try different things will lead you to possible solution. If then, you still can't do it, you can then ask, but this time, in a more precise way, for help on a specific problem.
 
user22676652
That is what I do every time before asking a question
 
user22676652
To anyone about programming
 
but asking a question to someone shouldn't be the default, what about yourself?
 
user22676652
What do you mean
 
user22676652
Like asking myself a question?
 
7:11 PM
People on SO are trying to help other people better help themselves out of their problems. But they aren't here to spoonfeed or be a helpdesk. That's why there is minimum amount of knowledge you need to have, and why there is frustration when you don't know something when you want help
@zoomingspeed yes, reread what I said earlier. Think critically. Depend solely on yourself first and foremost, then and only when you are truly stuck but have made more effort in precisely formulating your problem in a manageable way (no direct code + error copy paste) can you actually get good help when asking, otherwise it's likely to be basic Python things
look up rubberducking, that's what you need to do here. I say "think critically" but maybe this will be a better term
 
user22676652
Rubber duck debugging?
 
user22676652
Ok
 
user22676652
Can you at least tell Aran to stop being rude
 
user22676652
When I speak to him>
 
user22676652
7:17 PM
It wasn't the fact he was not helping me mainly it was the fact that he was being completely rude when speaking to me
 
no one was being rude to you here. As I said, no one is forced to help anyone here, and it's normal to get frustrated in cases where minimum knowledge requirement isn't met
 
user22676652
You did not see the messages before
 
I did
 
user22676652
Really
 
user22676652
So his tone of voice does not seem like anything to you?
 
7:19 PM
tone of voice? You are aware that it is hard to get those correctly in writings right?
if you doubt something was rude or not and there was no ill intent, just let it go, as it was probably neither or it wasn't rude or aimed at you
 
@zoomingspeed I can relay the message. But merely saying "Aran stop being rude" isn't really going to go over better than the message(s) you've previously sent. I think Aran is aware you're upset, so any further message is just continuing the discussion for little benefit. If you believe I am wrong I am all ears.
 
user22676652
@NordineLotfi what I mean is look at the way he typed it
 
@zoomingspeed again, I don't think this was rude. Context and Meanings are the two most important concept that need to be understood. In the same exact context and situation, no, it wasn't rude at all
It's like when people in chatrooms say "OK" for most questions that can be answered positively, but without any other word. Some may think it's rude, but it isn't, and is dependent on context
 
user22676652
7:38 PM
Ok
 
user22676652
Thank you for the advice
 
user22676652
I will move on from here.
 

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