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07:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

7:06 AM
@SamSaffron re your multi-collider, we have global-auth in development, in particular to help use on the quieter sites (so a "chat.whatever.com" that spans "gorillataming.stackexchange.com", "milkbottlecollector.stackexchange.com", etc)
I don't think it is a secret, but we haven't really gone into it much yet.
 
but the use case here would be give me one site where I can see my cooking / meta and SO rooms
 
@MarcGravell not really a secret:
0
A: Chat MultiColliderâ„¢

Jeff AtwoodYes, chat.stackexchange.com is being worked on and will support global auth, so anyone with 20 rep on any network site can participate there. That said, we will still have: chat.stackoverflow.com chat.serverfault.com chat.superuser.com chat.stackexchange.com ... at a minimum.

 
I didn't want to presume; but now that Jeff has said that, no problem ;p
 
thats cool, was just wondering if technically we could allow the rooms I am online in SO visible in chat.stackexchange ... it would be mighty tricky I assume
 
at most we could do a read-only, and that would be fairly faxing; read-write cross-site would be very very complex
 
7:45 AM
@MarcGravell - I am getting occasional no-messages then a flood arrive in the chat
 
what browser etc (out of curio)?
and are you opening/closing lots of tabs?
 
Chromium
hold on
7.0 - no tab activity
 
we have some magic that could conceivably get confused and cause a delay
hmmm... any javascript errors?
 
Time-to-edit is slow too
 
9 messages moved from The Tavern (general)
 
7:47 AM
3 "failed to load resource" messages
that is all
"The server responded with a status of 409 (Conflict)
 
hmmm... no obvious suggestions at this time
 
No prob. Seems to have eased off a bit anyway
 
the throttler sends a 409
 
8:01 AM
I smell a tidal wave of room creation coming
 
Ok, I'll repost it here then, I'd like to be able to click the "retry" link in the retry/cancel prompt, using the keyboard
 
sounds very sensible
 
There could of course be a reason for not allowing it :)
Using the mouse would of course slow me down
Which is sort of the point of the message
But still, that doesn't apply to me, so ... you fix? :)
 
Maybe "send" / [enter] should act as retry until it is sent?
I assume cancel is the edge case that a mouse-click would be OK for
i.e. tries to resend to oldest #fail until no more #fail, then checks the input box
 
I veto a shortcut for retry
for this exact reason:
1 min ago, by Lasse V. Karlsen
Using the mouse would of course slow me down
 
8:05 AM
agreed
 
@AidenBell to....?
 
I usually hit the retry barrier sending something I shouldn't anyway
a speedy retry
Or are we not discussing the 1s limit
shuts up
 
@AidenBell, I usually hit the retry barrier because of one-boxing
when I am commenting on something that I have to paste on it's own line
 
can't we create our own rooms..? like i need one for Android Developers..
 
yes you can, but it is rep-limited
I'll create one for you
 
8:11 AM
what should be the rep level..? mine is around 720.
 
10k
:P
 
you're the owner, so you can change the name etc
 
I for one welcome our droid overlords
 
> Creating a new room requires 100 reputation FAQ
@vaibhav You should see the create room link on the main room index?
 
@Marc yaah i got it.. thanks..!
 
8:14 AM
anyway, room exists now
 
"AndyE hello good sir - An unknown error has occurred " - A few of these
Nothing of note in console
 
going ok for me so far...
 
probably my super buggy Chromium build
 
IRC with a gui? Why must the print size be so small?
 
I did acciendently post a half-finished message by pressing enter to select a user when typing @
 
8:25 AM
Oh dear. Hit help, bottom rhs, popped up, not scrollable, doesn't show full page, again font too small to be usable. BAD stackOverflow.
 
That does look off
How do I close it?
That's all I see, unable to scroll.
Top of browser pane visible
Also, buggy rendering
Same on meta too
 
hey i just solved a user's query in Android room.. shouldn't i be credited with 15 repo points..? :P
 
+1 for the autocomplete :-)
 
8:44 AM
@MarcGravell @balpha - Can I just say, that egg (the text flying) is epic
 
well, at least now I have someone (or something) to blame for my low rep, besides my laziness. this chat.
 
@AidenBell hmmm - I'm not seeing anything obvious in the error logs
 
@MarcGravell - :S ah well. Seems ok atm
 
@AidenBell there is a close button top right, but maybe it could be wider and squatter
 
@MarcGravell - I can't see it on the image
 
8:48 AM
@MarcGravell no, the minihelp container is covering too much
I don't think it should include the @mention things
 
@balpha - the top of the help is the top of the browser pane. Scrolling just scrolls the chat
 
I know
that's my point
 
buy a bigger monitor...
;po
 
fixing right now
 
8:52 AM
@vaibhav depends; did you post the answer back onto SO?
 
@MarcGravell - Done.
btw it is the laptop on the left.
 
okay, mini-help is constrained to formatting for now
 
@balpha - perfect.
 
Anonymous
9:13 AM
wow... the chat even adds things like "1 hour later..." if no one talks for that long.
 
Anonymous
Haven't seen that anywhere :)
 
@DalinSeivewright Or even better:
7
Q: -1 seconds later in chat

Michael MrozekOn one of the meta chatrooms just now, I posted a link and then posted "..." a second later. For some reason, the second message inserted above the first, and a time difference message showed up informing me I'd posted the first -1 seconds after the second:

 
I told you guys, this is the most advanced web chat we've ever seen anywhere. It's not even close.
@MichaelMrozek it just means the database clocks are getting out of sync with one of the web servers
 
hmmm... I changed most places to switch out any "-1"s to "just now", but I think that one happens at the client. Will have to check
7 messages moved from General
 
no, that happens when the second message has an earlier timestamp than the first
 
9:18 AM
I've been told the Reply button moved several time away in the beta as I suggested to put it elsewhere :D
Hello ^^
 
Anonymous
When a new message appears in the chat the (<number>) pops up in the page name (even if that page is the active one). It doesn't go away until you go to a different tab then back again. Bug?
 
what browser?
 
Anonymous
IE8
 
and you're sure the tab is active? as in, has focus?
not just visible to you?
 
Anonymous
Yeah, it has focus
 
9:24 AM
can't repro that -- your new message just didn't give me a number
 
Anonymous
:\
 
Anonymous
What version do you have?
 
8.0.7600.16385
 
Anonymous
Really? I guess I don't have the latest version somehow. I'll get that and see if it persists.
 
i need a client for this chat for windows :D .
great idea
 
9:25 AM
@DalinSeivewright wait
 
Anonymous
k
 
reproing in IE7 compatibility mode
 
i mean like yahoo mesenger etc. it would be epic.
 
just turn it off
works better in real mode anyway
 
Anonymous
I'm in non-compatibility mode
 
Anonymous
9:30 AM
It does go away when the page gets any focus events
 
Anonymous
like going from a menu and clicking on the page again... actually... even focus events on the main page itself (not the chat area) turns it off
 
@MarcGravell you should replace any negative value, or maybe reorder the messages (that's probably not good). At some point, the communication latency (more likely to be client side) will have a bigger impact on that.
 
the messages are ordered
unlike campfire, we show the same order to everyone
 
so, a -1 message is moved up?
 
that was caused by the client getting confused because it knew the order those too messages where sent -- but the server said differently
IOW, most likely a rare edge case caused by a bad internet connection
 
9:33 AM
@balpha How dare you
[status-my-internet-is-unstoppable]
Oh, that doesn't work here. :(
 
@balpha, when you send a message, it appears to you instantly or only after a server ack (+ timestamp)?
 
it appears to you instantly. you can see that it gets a little darker when the server has acknowledged it
 
Very IRC of you
 
we're talking about 2 processes. sending, and receiving. If you send a message, it shows up. Then client sends an update request, and if the server has any message older than that you sent, the negative timestamp is going to happen.
 
no
the older message will be inserted before yours
 
9:38 AM
oh, okay, I should've realised that when you said the reordering thing earlier. thanks ;)
 
campfire does that differently, and I found it very annoying
the side effect is that sometimes your message appears after another message, even though you hadn't seen that message before you posted
 
where's the vote up here? want to vote on your message. (star is too hollywood).
 
but at least everyone sees the same order
 
well, I support that decision. Makes sense to me.
@MichaelMrozek I feel being on IRC, indeed.
 
9:58 AM
why does the chat not work with opera, it thought Opera was web standards friendly
 
1 message moved from General
@mahen23 what's not working?
 
How impossible is it to figure out if a tab is already open to a given room and just switch to it instead of loading a new instance of that room when you click a room link? I don't know if browsers even support that
 
well am not on Opera now, but i saw the message jeff posted that he will punch opera users :(
 
@mahen23 it works fine on Opera, even Opera Mobile
 
Will the blue number count down as the messages scroll into history, assuming they don't get deleted?
 
10:00 AM
oh cool
 
Or does it require a moderators attention?
 
so you're just assuming that it doesn't work in opera?
 
wait, let me try
 
works for me
 
actually the full version of the chat works better in Opera Mobile for my lowly Nokia than it does on Safari for iPad. :)
 
10:01 AM
@MichaelMrozek not possible without a browser extension, unless it's a popup I guess.
 
Works for me in Opera 10.6.3 on OSX 10.6.4
 
works great in opera
 
@MichaelMrozek but one could block multiple instances on the server and signal it to the client somehow.
 
wow, the countdown is ugly. :)
 
@mahen23 so why did you say "why does the chat not work with opera"?
 
10:02 AM
Giggled outloud
 
@balpha because jeff said he will punch opera users
quote: " 5 if you are using Opera I swear I will punch you through the Internet - 1h ago by Jeff Atwood â–¼"
 
@badp I love that thing. It makes me want to cause more havoc so I can get rooms muted more often
 
well, opera is a crappy browser, but we still try to support it. also, you might want to read the context around that message
 
what context?
 

Jeff punches Opera users

1 hour ago, 4 minutes total – 11 messages, 5 users, 5 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by balpha

 
10:06 AM
lol
 
Hmm. So should I be seeing a "0 flag" indicator on my gravatar?
 
We all are
 
I'm not
 
You are not all
:P
 
is it still there when you F5?
 
10:11 AM
@balpha No
@AidenBell saw it too apparently
 
anyway did you register the suggestion to either add some action to the menu or remove it from /admin/flagged?
 
okay
 
F5 makes it go away.
 
10:36 AM
@balpha Shouldn't there be an indication of what room you are linking to?
 
@Richard I don't understand what you mean
 
> in General, 2 mins ago, by Aiden Bell
 
you mean the room name should be shown on the conversation card?
 
@balpha in the quote I replied to it doesn't say what room Jeff said ... And the URL only contains a room number (which isn't very helpful).
@balpha Yes
 
why would that be important?
 
10:42 AM
If you are thinking about clicking through: where you'll end up (for a start).
It would give some context to the quote.
 
you'll end up on the conversation page -- you don't even see the quote before that
 
@balpha is the StackExchangeâ„¢ MultiUser StarringContraptionâ„¢ framing-friendly?
 
and that page does show the room info
@badp Does a dog move its lips when reading a book?
 
@balpha All book reading dogs I've seen do.
(All the 0 of them.)
Cats, however, don't.
 
@balpha I see... so it would save one click/page load :-)
 
10:46 AM
my question is -- what additional information would the room title give you? I'm just trying to understand the request
I'm not particularly for or against it, but I see no compelling reason for it either
 
11:19 AM
@balpha There's a problem with this picture
it totally seems the invisible mouse is overing the star button.
 
it's a ninja cursor.
 
@balpha I think I've covered that -- where the message is quoted from.
More a case that I was surprised it wasn't there... in all the other cases of expanding links (e.g. Wikipedia) the referrant is obvious.
 
here, have my attempts for better pictures
and for MSO
actually I updated the latter image so the circle goes below the mouse cursor :) (same URL)
 
I don't understand the issue in the picture above...
 
the mouse cursor is missing
and the star is dark
so it looks like it's about the star
I've added a cursor
 
11:33 AM
seems to already have one...
 
1 min ago, by balpha
I've added a cursor
 
@balpha cool, thanks.
 
@MarcGravell he meant the star is confusing because it's darken. me thinks it should change color onmouseover.
 
I think it used to do that; IIRC Jeff changed it to make the star more obvious
 
@jweyrich that's a different change request
 
11:38 AM
@badp how so? the 2nd part is just my opinion.
 
ahh, I thought the image was from @badp - didn't realise it was the FAQ image. Now it makes more sense.
 
@MarcGravell I thought the same.
 
Yeah, didn't you know I have commit access to sstatic.net? :) (← kidding.)
 
nice arrow
 
@balpha shouldn't it be a cursor: pointer; style ;p
 
11:42 AM
@badp the image link was expanded, that's probably the cause of our confusion.
 
@MarcGravell hmm good point
just assume the user has some non-standard cursor settings
 
the arrow may be clearer to average-Jo, though
 
11:54 AM
when some new messages appear in chat rooms, in which i'm offline, would they be translated to notification window (red circle in the corner on SO)?
 
@Nakilon Yes (if they were directed at you). They show up on the homepage here too, you get the green alert circle at the top
 
Small implementation detail; they are tracked here for a little while, then (periodically) we offload them to global-inbox. So after that they won't appear in the homepage here.
But yes; fully integrated into the SE inbox
 
Maybe add a tab "chat" in that window? I mean to make: [hot questions, all sites, inbox, chat]
 
to be honest, that isn't a big problem in real use.
 
12:13 PM
In a feature "Add a new feed" in room preferences, if I add an URL to rss-feed (for example specific SO tag), it will be translated to room?
 
I don't understand
 
Ok, it's official. There's too many chat rooms
(for me)
 
so pick the ones you are interested in
 
uhm. ALL of them?
Just sayin'. I've got 7 open now, including 2 MSO rooms I've been watching.
Would be cool if I could be in more than one room at a time; quantum chatting.
 
@Nakilon yes, not literally translated to room. There's an overlay that appear periodically.
 
12:19 PM
Ok, I'll try to formulate. For example, if I'm an owner of some room, and there is a feature "manage feeds". If I add an URL stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=sometag&sort=newest there... oh, jweyrich, thanks )
I'm writing in English to slow ))
 
@spoulson you can; other rooms that you are in are tracked on the right
 
@Nakilon "New items from these feeds will be shown via a slide-down ticker overlay that periodically appears at the top of the room, and will not be persisted." - quoting from Python's room info.
 
@Nakilon then yes, it'll post them to the room, either as messages or as a drop-down ticker. Messages are discouraged for busy feeds, as they interrupt the chat hugely
 
@MarcGravell Yeah, it's close to what I was thinking, but not quite
 
@rchern! glad you made it (:
 
12:24 PM
@MarcGravell Just pointing out the attractiveness of the chat is overwhelming for my interests.
 
@MarcGravell, glad or dammit she found us? (;
 
quick! everyone hide!
 
so let's get this started... q:
 
er.... nobody here at the moment (ssshhhhh....)
 
chat feedback #1: the notification noise is awful ):
hehe
 
12:26 PM
@rchern I have my speakers turned off. I will confirm this later
 
I /blame @balpha
 
chat feedback #2: @rchern is still allowed to do backward smiles
4
 
q:
 
I still don't know why your nick isn't backwards too...
 
so tempting to add a if name == 'rchern' and random(6)==5, replace('(:',':)') etc
 
12:28 PM
):
 
Actually I don't /blame @balpha - I thought it sounded fine.
 
well in that case
 
Chat feedback: Chat is awesome!
 
/blame @MarcGravell
 
What a difference between "read access" and "no special access"?
 
12:29 PM
@Nakilon in a public room, there is none
 
ok, understood
 
@balpha we could make it not display options less than the rooms default access?
in fact, the original (bug-ugly) access control used to do that
 
The best Tech Support strip ever ← that would make me much happier!
 
I know; I decided against that. Here's why:
 
@jweyrich I remember somebody's blog talking about how they wanted that ages ago
 
12:34 PM
if someone is set to read-only, but that's not displayed because the room is public, and the room then gets made private, it's easy to miss that someone has still access
 
@jweyrich awww... if only that were true!
 
also note that if nobody has special access of a certain level, only the room owner even sees the categories
 
@MichaelMrozek that would be so awesome! I'd gladly pay more just to have it. No kidding!
 
@balpha ok; I meant more in the popup that appears when you click on the down triangle, but makes sense
 
12:37 PM
why can't I star my own messages? That's so sad.
 
because you don't get to self-declare your post popular?
 
Unless you're a room owner, of course. :P
 
@MarcGravell 1 star is not much popular, is it?
 
@jweyrich As @rchern said, "begging for a star is lame" :-)
 
(:
 
12:39 PM
this is not begging, just a question. I didn't even know there was this "popular" thing.
 
@jweyrich I was just kidding :-)
 
@jweyrich, if you want a star, just say (: or oy
usually works for me at least
 
But, as @MarcGravell said, it's kind of like upvoting
 
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
@Josh no, now you'll fear my crew, Al Qaeda.
 
12:40 PM
woah
 
@rchern I repeat: we're not in MSO chat here! ;-)
 
problem...
 
I see it as a way of avoiding cluttering the chat with "+1", "lol", etc.
 
@rchern Yes?
 
12:40 PM
whatever i'm typing is getting inserted at the top now
 
well, you are backwards after all...
 
I resisted saying that off MSO chat @badp
 
@rchern Ola! (: -- also works?
 
Seriously though, it does happen to me at time with a flanky connection. F5 fixes.
 
Is there any way to post a link to a Question in a big form, like it looks, when a room is for a specific question, or when feed was translated to room?
 
12:41 PM
we had a problem like that when I first implemented room migration; not sure why - we hacked around it a bit...
 
@Nakilon simply post the link
 
Hm... I better should try before asking )
 
@Nakilon If you made the room by prefixing chat. to the question URL I thought it automatically inserted the question at the beginning
 
hmm
aha
 
12:43 PM
Is the flag count for all rooms, or just the rooms you're in?
 
Flag = all rooms
 
@MarcGravell, @balpha, one of my messages got stuck on a retry/cancel and the user script must not have this url in the includes. any message i sent while that message was still pending got inserted at the top. clicking cancel fixed things.
 
Is there an official bugtracker for @rchern somewhere? I think there's any issue with her process scheduler; I fear it needs a forceful slowdown
 
):
 
obviously backwards smileys are more hazardous than unicode; I think they are the root cause of the problem
 
12:46 PM
20 mins ago, by rchern
chat feedback #1: the notification noise is awful ):
 
also caused by backwards smileys. Like a record sounds terrible played backwards.
 
Hmm. I haven't heard it yet, even when I changed my alerts to "all rooms"
 
@MichaelMrozek, turn on your speakers q:
 
flash block?
 
Sound feedback will be ignored for now. There's always someone who doesn't like it.
 
12:49 PM
@MarcGravell Oh. Yes
@rchern Marc is more helpful than you :)
 
this surprises you? (;
note: if you had said they were on i'd have mentioned flash (;
 
@MichaelMrozek maybe a question for webapps? ;p
 
Sometimes I see SO's reputation under user's avatar. Does it appear when the message is big enough? Just like avatar's size?
 
Yes
 
@Nakilon, yup
 
12:50 PM
...yes?
 
No.
 
what?
 
And if the message in not big enough, but I want to see user's reputation, I have to go to his profile page on SO?
 
@Nakilon It's on the chat profile too
 
12:51 PM
Hm...
 
@Nakilon, click on their gravatar here and click user profile on parent site
actually, either user profile
 
parent is more up to date; we cache it here
 
Hm, it creates new page in browser...
 
@Nakilon It'd probably be annoying if it didn't
 
we could bring it down to here (i.e. in the popup), but how does it apply?
i.e. would it matter?
 
12:53 PM
@Nakilon, just about every click will open a new tab. you should probably just accept it.
 
Maybe show it in a miniwindow, which shows up, when clicking on avatar.
 
@balpha, all is right in the world (for now at least!), ctrl-space @include added for here (:
 
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